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quote:Originally posted by myelin

Hi

I just discovered this post. I too have Sleep Apnea and use a CPA (at least try to). Its funny, cause I've been wondering how loss of REM sleep effects the ability to project too.   Heres a question more to do with health. I find that when I havent slept properly for several days, due to having a stuffy nose which prevents the use of the CPAP, or if it falls off during the night, I go through phases of having heart palpatations off and on accompanied by fatigue and mental fogginess, Do you everhave these same symptoms?

Thanks!

Yes I do get those syptoms when I don't use my cpap but I also get headaches.

quote:Originally posted by Kinjari
This was a big problem for me years ago when I first tried meditation for the purpose of lucid dreaming. I had never heard of OBE's at that time and I had a particulary nasty experience where I stopped breathing for longer then was healthy. I wont go into all the details but it spooked me pretty bad and I quit the practice all together (which involved lying on ones back). In this case Im quite sure I saw Death...not as an entity per say but rather as a portal. The entire cealing above me looked like it was under water except for a very smooth perfect circle like a black mirror, pressing down on me, growing larger as it descended but thats another story.

I have had a similar experience just recently and I also saw death.

I have talked to him about it. I have talked with my husband about it as well. I am not the sort to hide how I feel from anyone.

He once told me he never lets a person go once they have trespassed on him psychically. He disappeared for two years when I did not talk with him for three days after he made advances on me. Now he lives near me and I write to him on holidays and his birthday. Sometimes he visits us. We have been struggling with our connection for 7 years now. I have been with my husband for twelve years and I've been married for three years.

I guess in a way I have only used back doors to astral travel. I never read books about it and I don't have a desire to do it. I can't even drive cars because I jump out of my body so much.

Today while I was downloading e-books from this forum I astral projected and saw a girl waving at me and then returned to my body. I said to my husband, "I wonder why I astral project so easily and while others have trouble doing it. He said, "It's because you are always on the cusp of death."

Christmas day went very well. Some Ojibway friends of mine showed up on Christmas eve. They are a family I have known for 23 years and I helped raise their twin boys who are now both 20 years old. One of their twins named Rainbow came with them.

They smudged my house with sage and sweetgrass. They spent the night. We fed them leg of lamb and had a great time together. They are also friends with my mom but haven't had anything to do with her since she dragged me to court over the title of the land. They don't understand why she wouldn't share it with me and they knew my husband well enough not to believe their lies about him.

My Uncle showed up on Christmas day and gave the kids Girl Genius and batman comics. He wants me to read a sci fi novel he is writing.

On christmas day I was told my mom and older sister would come. They never made it. They did show up the day after and they were very nice to all of us. My mom even talked with my husband in a civilized way. My sister didn't try to get me to let her take my daughter with. Luckily she had a car full of people.

The kids got more presents than I could list. I just got done playing clue with my daughter who is being insomiac.[]

quote:Originally posted by jc84corvette

Hey The Bard, sorry to hear about Quinn.
That is a great explanation of something I never had before. How long do you think the OBE was? Did you see your husband and hear him?
Oh and to be curious, what happend to the electricion?

I didn't see my husband but I returned to my body when I heard him say my name. He says I was out for about 5 minutes at the most. I don't know if the electrition touched the wires together or not.

quote:Originally posted by Aries

Have you ever just called your Sister or Mom and let them know how you feel and what it is doing to your life?
Well at anyrate I hope things get better for ya.
-Aries

Yes I do communicate how I feel to them. Sometimes they twist my words and try to use them against me but the communicaton might be helping. They are coming to see us on Christmas. I hope it will be a friendly visit on their part but it has made my husband very moody. They have ganged up on us during holidays before. I'm praying this time will be different.

quote:Originally posted by Dark Knight


Please just let us know you and you're family are OK.

My children are having a blast for the holidays. We just took them to the Lord of The Rings tonight. My daughter is turning 11 this month, She was up late last night  painting with watercolors with me.

They were having problems with their new teachers this year and begged me to home school them. I have home schooled my daughter before when she was in first grade. The next year when she returned to the school she was ahead of her class and put in Junior Great books and Math Olympiads. This year her grades plummeted. So did my sons. My son is 9.

They both came home from school acting like their teachers were torturing them. Even the music teacher was making them hate music and my son quit singing around the house. He reminds me of Adam Sandler with the songs he makes up and he pretends to be singing opera and his voice is beautiful. The music teacher told my children they had bad singing voices. I finally got fed up and started home schooling my children this month and they love it. They still get to go on field trips with the school and participate in sports, inventers fair and school plays. I think they need extra attention from me this way because of all we have been through  with my family.

My children tell me every day that I'm the "best mom in the world." I do spend most of my time with them. Even now during the holidays they are having so much fun learning that they are playing with an inventers kit and a model of the human body that they put the bones, muscles, and nerves,  into. My children also love to read every day.  I am very proud of them.

Their dad makes snowshoes and toboggans for a living so he's not home as much as I am but we are thinking of starting a family crafting business. The children and I do many arts and crafts. I even taught them how to spin with a spinning wheel and weave on my floor loom. The floor loom is in storage as we work on remodeling our house. Both my children helped weave two blankets on it when it was set up.

My children have been hurt by the situation with my mother and losing their baby brother. Plus my husband and I almost broke up in 1998. I left him for 8 months. He did his best to win me back and then got me to marry him. We've been together 12 years now.  Most of our problems are caused by my family.

The children love their Grandma and it hurts them that she hates their dad. The reason I let her back in my life is for them. They missed her. She is a better Grandma than a mom. She only got verbally abusive to two of her children out of 4. (Her youngest and eldest are her favorites.) One of my half sisters is still treated like she is stupid. She is 25 and very beautiful and due to have her second baby in February. She is still at an age where she sucks up to my mother in hopes for praise and love. Whoever called child health and human services on me did it to her too with the same accusation of living in unsanitary conditions. Luckily they left her alone. Right now my mom has convinced my sister that I tried to have her son taken away. It wasn't us and I've been grieving that she thinks I would do that to her. When she was a child at the farm I was always protecting her from her dad when he was drunk. I am more like a second mom to my sisters than a sister. My sisters are ages 20 and 25. Both her and my baby sister were able to hide out in my trailer when their dad was drinking. It really hurts me that he can see her son and I can't.

My house isn't unsanitary it is just cluttered with books and crafts and maybe a few cobwebs because I like the wolf spiders in my house. They don't bite, live in the laundry room, and bathroom. Wolf spiders are really funny. They have battles in our claw foot tub and if someone leaves water in the tub one will drown itself. We decided they are giving sacrifices to their claw footed god. We tend to kick them outside when we catch them but we don't kill them. The cats eat them. We have 5 cats and a dog who is part wolf.

My mom treated me poorly because she considers herself a genius and was ashamed when the school system tried to convince her that I was mentally retarded. I had a very bad lisp and was dyslexic but back then the school system just thought I was stupid. She had an IQ test done on me when I was 8. The man told her that I got bored and goofed off. He told her he really couldn't tell what my IQ was but that I got things right that most children knew nothing about and I got things wrong that most children know about. He told her I was right brain dominant and above average.  My grades were always poor and I did not do well until I hit my teens and went to a Free School. That school was the best school I ever went to.

Another thing that made my mom ashamed of me is I became chubby as a child. Now that I look at childhood photos I am shocked. I wasn't very chubby but she was calling me fat and putting me on diets all the time. Which made me crave food more and now I am obese. In fact the more she attacked me the more weight I gained to the point now my health is failing. (Adult onset Diabetes, High blood pressure, Hernia, and Sleep apnea) I do exercise and have done yoga since I was a teenager and belly dance since I was 20. I also swim and bicycle. My children mimic my working out and now both of them are very athletic and always get A's in gym. It is the exercise that has kept me from being crippled from my size. To me this has been her biggest curse energy on me.

Last summer I fell twice on rocks at a river I swim in. Anyone else my size would have been crippled but since I take bone Maximizor with Glucosimine daily I wasn't hurt from the falls at all which really surprised me. I do have extremely strong bones even before I started taking bone Maximizor. Two years before I met my husband I survived being hit by a speeding corvette and  shocked everyone who saw it by walking away from the accident in one piece and went home. A man in a cowboy hat asked me, "How could you still be alive after that?" My ex-boyfriend screamed at me for not sticking around to collect the guys insurance but I felt bad because it was my fault. I was so tired after working a double shift that I pulled out in front of him on my bicycle.

I'm just rambling here. Sorry can you tell I love to write. The kids and I are fine. I am still dealing with grief and healing from it. I agree that verbal abuse isn't easy to get over but if you look at your parents as mentally ill you learn to feel a bit of sympathy towards them. Instead of hating mean people I tend to pray they heal. That is how I handle it. I am a very strong person but I do have hurdles to jump before I am healed.

Edit- I have an 18 year old step daughter too but she grew up with her mom and moved here to go to college. She doesn't live with us yet we see her quite often. She works as a CNA and is a great roll model for my children.

quote:Did I misread this? The whole black pagan clan I was referring to was based on this quote.

quote:My mom's family attacked us with everything they could muster. Including magic. I finally moved away in 1999 after my baby died from a doctor's mistake.

Gotta love Justice especially when someone has their hand tipping the scale. Have you ever thought about going higher than the local authorities, say a senator and telling them what the hell is going on (now that would take a lot of energy and I won't pass judgment if you say "no" you don't want to. I was gonna work in race relations ,remember, so I'm always in rebel mode ).

If you actually have people helping you to make sure you don't have icky things in your aura that's awesome. That's probably the best you can do, and keep a lot of crystal and plant a lot of helping herbs come spring, especially lavendar. Do you smudge at all, especially with your own grown stuff?

I don't think their curse energy caused my babies death. It hurt my mom to lose a grandchild but someone or both she and her husband cast a wish spell in a tree at the farm that I use to sit and draw in. The year that he died. They knew it was a special spot for me and they didn't know that I would recognize the spell from a book about trees that my mom gave me some years before. Maybe they forgot I had that book. I don't know what they wished for but I know it was a spell aimed at me in a negative way.

I won't persue legal action against her. That is what she fears from me because there is more than just the fraud I could sue her for. Her attacks on me are based off fear and I really don't want her to fear me. I don't call authorities on people unless they are causing physical harm on someone.

Part of her problem is her husband is an abusive drunk who wants revenge on me for having him arrested for beating my mom after she had surgery 12 years ago. That is when they started their attacks on me. I think it is him and not her that is cursing me but she isn't stopping him and goes along with everything he tells her to do. It was his influence that got her to use my money. They were married when I was 17 (the year she took my money.) I am now 40.

I do grow herbs and flowers every year and
I smudge when I have sage.

Thanks

Dark Knight thank you for the advice. Actually I already bath in salts and an astral friend of mine keeps them from attaching things to my aura. It is more like what GoKu22 mentioned

quote:And remember, she may be using your remaining love for her against you, as a way in for the magic.

Most of the few pagans here are very kind and gentle folk and she isn't part of a cult.

The court system is very corrupt. My mom is a bit of a celebrity here because she does an awesome monthly radio show.

When I told the Judge about the fraud she pulled he ignored me even though I have evidence. It turns out she is friends with a couple of the judges.

Part of the reason my moms family hates my husband so much is he comes from a family of cops but he was their black sheep. They still love him dearly. My husbands father is a retired LA captain and his brother is one of those cops that rides a horse around LA.

My family are all hippies and whenever they get in trouble with the law (and they have recently) they blame my husband. Neither he nor I have ever called authorities on them and we never will. They have tried to sick authorities on us before with things they fabricated and the cops left us alone once they realized they were crank calls.

I believe there is a higher justice system and I personally think several laws are unjust. There are many crooks who are authorities missusing their power.

I love my husbands family and I love my family in spite of their attacks on me. I do find it amusing that my husbands family has been more open minded about things than my hippie mom who preaches stuff that is high and holy but won't practice what she preaches.

quote:Originally posted by Tolvor

A picture is worth a thousand words.  This one (http://www.despair.com/bitterness.html) sums up my feeling perfectly that OBE should be kept very private.

Don't worry, its kid and work safe.

LOL thanks for that link I just happen to know the perfect forum to post it in. Have you ever heard of Despair in Neil Gaimans Sandman?
Well I hope you don't mind me stealing that link and posting it in http://neilgaimanboard.com/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=733605825&f=588609765"Worlds End."

Thanks for the advice. Since I wire wrap stones and make jewelry I think I have all those stones that were mentioned. So I will dig out some of the jewelry that I never wear and start wearing some that contain those stones.

I plan to buy Robert Bruces books after the holiday season.

I'm not into court battles. I think they just open wounds wider but I might move out of State for awhile and put a distance between her and I.

I hope you all had a great Solstice[]

We each have our own relationship with the cosmos. Whether or not it is one self-aware being (I would not claim to know). For all we know God or Gods could just be astral beings with egos that toy with the human race and manipulate us into worshipping them.

I do believe there is a creator and it is in everything and everyone. To love the entire creator would be to love it all in both the positive and negative. I respect the creator but I won't worship it anymore than I'd expect my own children to worship me. There are things I love and don't like about the Creator. I sometimes feel like the bible translations make God sound like an abusive parent.  

Unitarians raised me. (One pagan and one atheist.) They raised me to develop my own belief system. All my life I have read mythology and history. I think organized religion like the biblical ones were developed to control the masses by using fear to encourage morals in people.

I suppose it depends on the size of your tub. I don't try to astral project in water but it happens to me every time I bath. I can't soak in a bath without falling into a trance. That is why I advised it. I have never drowned. My body woke me up the one time I almost went under water. I even fall into a trance and astral project if I do the back float while swimming but my husband watches over me when I swim.

I just thought since water does that for me it might for others but I agree there is potential danger so only do it if you have someone watching out for you. Actually for me the only time it got dangerous was when my water got cold and I almost got hypothermia. My husband thought to check on me and woke me up before it got serious.

I don't know about any books written about orbs but I live with three and I know something about them. I don't just see them on camera. My husband, children and I see them and one likes to hang out in my womb. (Even before I had children). They are astral beings. Some people like to call them fairies (willowisps).

My first encounter with the one who is my spirit guardian and soulmate was at an ancient calendar site in Vermont. My ex-stepfather the late Byron Dix was exploring and studying these ancient ruins (we found). One day he and I got lost. We found ourselves in a large open field shaped like a natural amphitheatre. I saw an orb shaped like a diamond. It led me to an ancient stone hut that Byron later discovered aligned with Equinoxes and solstices. The hut had no roof but had a slab over the door, which had grid marks carved into it. Back then Byron didn't believe in spirits. He was an atheist. I heard he changed after my mom left him. He wrote a book called Manitou with a man named James Mavor about those sites.

When I was 14 I met a woman named Anne Ross from Scotland at a conference that was being held at Goddard College. She is the one who told me that the orb was a Willowisp. She has written several books about archeology and mythology.  

I have a set full octave tuning forks that I use for tuning my Celtic harp and piano.

There are pros and cons to openly discussing astral projection to just anyone. Parents have their children to consider. If you live in a community (like the one I live in) you have to consider how that town will treat your children. You don't want your children to suffer because of what you believe to be true.

I was raised different than most people. My mother was blunt about her beliefs in the places we lived. When I was 5 a woman tried to drown me because of my moms life style. I learned in my youth that not everyone is open-minded. I have always felt safer in the spirit world than I do with fellow humans.

There are times when it is good to speak freely about things you know. If you are single and only have yourself to worry about than there is no harm done in being blunt. If you are a parent than you have to be careful. You don't want to lose your children to close-minded government officials who think that stuff is loony. You don't want your neighbors to harass your children.

I speak freely about those things when I feel safe in the group of people that I am around but I'm not going to walk up to my neighbor and say, "Wow I sure had an awesome out of body experience this morning."

I wouldn't call it voodoo but I belly dance myself into a healing trance and yes I have been pulled out of my body during those trance dances. It has happened to me just dancing to a Reggae band.

Dance and singing and playing music enhances my trances. I often will play the most beautiful music on my celtic harp during some trances and then when I wake up from my trance I won't remember the notes so I can write them down. Often when this happens playing music or dancing my eyes are closed at the time.

Is this what you mean by a back door?

[Congratulations!]

Congratulations![]

I think when you are trying to astral project you need REM sleep. I don't really feel comfortable leaving my body so I don't try to AP. I have an astral lover who takes me places. I barely get to sleep before I can feel him pulling me out of my body.[:I] Actually it was reading an article by Mr. Bruce about astral sex that drew me here. Now I'll have to check out his books but not until after I financially recuperate from Christmas.

Sleep apnea is a sleep disorder where a person stops breathing while they are sleeping. It has killed people before for example; Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead band died from it.

Sleep apnea prevents REM sleep. I couldn't understand why I had no energy. I'd fall asleep in mid conversation sometimes. I'd scare people by falling asleep suddenly no matter where I was and quite often I'd be sitting up. I had no energy and quit remembering my dreams as much because I wasn't dreaming much. Other times I wouldn't sleep for days. I still have problems with insomnia.

When I did the sleep study last month I quit breathing 246 times that night. It turned out mine is very severe and now I have to sleep with a mask hooked to a machine that pumps air into my lungs as I sleep. Now I remember dreams again and I have a lot more energy.

These past few years I have been taken farther places astrally in my sleep. Sometimes I remember and others I don't. The time I went near Jupiter I felt so electrical that I couldn't sleep for two days. A couple of weeks ago I fell asleep on my back and I was using my cpap machine and I still quit breathing in my sleep. I saw death and knew I was dead. My spirit guide said, "Oh my God!" and grabbed me and threw me back into my body. I woke up with a jolt tearing the cpap machine off and gasping for air saying, "Oh my God!" It scared the heck out of my husband. My whole body felt shaky.

I understand what you're saying and I think it's great you are blunt. I use to be more blunt and free about letting people know what I think but now I live in a small tight knit town full of Christians who poisoned my pets in the past and threaten to kill my wolf. Now that I'm a mom I have learned to be more modest about my experiences. Even still, this town gets spooked by certain things like my yard ornaments and our 1963 Cadillac ambulance (that the neighbors think is a hearse). This year I have had to home school my children since their teachers treat them poorly because their family doesn't fit in with the norm around here.
I wish I felt safe enough to be more blunt like you.

I've experienced loud thumps on the wall and doors slamming. My spirit guide doesn't tell me he's taking me anywhere nor have I really had a real verbal conversation back and forth. I feel his feelings and it seems we communicate more with emotions than sound. The only times he talks is when he's warning me of danger or a situation I need to prepare for.

I saw my sister's house astrally before she bought it. I even got to get really close to Jupiter once. I never really wanted to consciously leave my body. It just happens to me a lot.

What is fact to us is perceived as beliefs from those who never experienced what we have. I have had religious people push their beliefs on me and they view their beliefs as facts. I don't enjoy having people push me to believe something that I have never experienced and so out of respect to others I don't push them to believe what I know as fact.

I was raised by a woman who misuses her psychic abilities to manipulate others. Including her own children. I think the reason why not everyone is ready to know about the astral worlds has to do with the fact there are people who would misuse it.

That totally reminded me of an experience that I had when I was 14. I had skipped school so I could sleep in. My dad worked at Space Research Corporation and my mom taught school 40 miles away so I would take advantage of that and occasionally skip school. I've always been a night owl.

That day I slept for many hours. I heard my stepfather come home for lunch and fell back to sleep. He luckily did not notice I was there. I dreamed I was looking in the Mirror but couldn't see my reflection. I saw my body in my bed and suddenly got caught in a spiraling vortex. A black shadow of a thunderbird loomed over me and I fell into my body with a jolt. It was my first time I remember getting out of my body.

Have you ever had precognitive dreams? I have, for example before 9/11 happened, I dreamed about a black woman fighting in a war. She was pretty and in US army fatigues. She had a machine gun and planes were dropping things from over head. I shared this dream with a letter to the Author Neil Gaiman. The day that 9/11 happened Neil had sent me a post card back and told me I was an interesting writer.

The planes in the dream and the war seemed precognitive. Then sometime this year I read about a black woman who was fighting in Iraq and was captured. She got rescued and was the same woman in my dream.

I hope no one drops a nuclear bomb but I think it can be more symbolic of a change in your life. When someone shocks you it can feel like a bomb was dropped.

All my life I grew up in a situation where it was fine to talk about OBE's with my mother and her college friends. My mom would take me to "Silva Mind control" classes and now I naturally fall into trances without trying and sometimes at inappropriate times. I can't drive because of that.

When I entered the real world as a young adult I was slapped down by groups of friends for speaking to freely of those things. It never stopped me back then. Now that I am older I am more considerate of the people whom I talk with.I stay on safe subjects and try not to push my beliefs but sometimes I will mention things about my experiences with the astral world that has scared people off. In a forum called "Worlds End" I upset some people by speaking to freely about my experiences. This past year I find I bite my tongue more. Not everyone is ready to experience or know about OBE's.

I feel blessed that my husband does believe. He has encountered some of my astral friendlies.