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Well, this is very simple. I am seeing that number everywhere. Mostly on clocks. I somehow manage to look at the clock when it is EXACTLY 19:11 and I have done that many times. It is never 19:10 or 19:12 but always 19:11. I also download a crack for a game (don't tell anyone ) and then I looked at the group that created it.... Razor 1911. that did it!
It is really starting to freak me out. I have never really believed in symbols, but I am seeing this number over and over again, too many times for it just to be coincidental.

What could it mean?



Ps. I have not seen the 19:11 number for about a week now. But I am still seeing the number 11 often.

lol, this must be evil hippie humor that I am seeing unfolding itself in its own weirdness   ?

Well in order to understand the hippie one must not make loud noises or sudden moves when studying, one must be one with the hippie, eat what it eats and do what it does!!

Here nice hippie, easy now mate, iam not gonna hurt you look, i am a cancer myself, yes come closer... closer.... GOTCHA!!! (duck taping hippie making escape impossible and enabling me to examine this strange creature some more)

Dear SOM, i wasn't trying to push anything on you. i was just giving a rough idea about the site...save you from the trouble, encase it wasn't your thing, but in between the stuff that the "average" person has a difficult time swallowing

yes i know, i just have a hard time in believing in anything. and considering the fact that i will not live for ever (in the physical at least) i simply cannot afford throw myself into one way of believing or thinking because what if it was not true after all? Then I would see myself as the biggest idiot alive. There are simply too many believes and I cannot afford to bury myself in just a few of them. I must see them all, because I have a feeling that once I find the right believe, I will know because there will be no doubt! No "what if". Well that would at least be nice

I remember when I saw the matrix for the first time over at a friend's house, I truly believed that we were being controlled by somebody ells and that this world was just an illusion. I felt totally insane!!! I must have been around 14-15 I cant really remember.... Well when Neo leaves "the matrix" is the "real world" not just another matrix? Or did I misunderstand that part? Well anyway that would seem like the most logical right? That if there are somebody capable of manipulating with our reality that they have created it just like an onion with infinitive layers? And then I think "what is the point then"? if we are going through all that trouble escaping this matrix, when the place we have come to is just another matrix? Well what would the point be in creating a false reality? To use our body for electricity? No that is stupid, that is also the part of the matrix that I did not understand, why humans? Why not cows? They also produce body heat and I bet you they won't try to escape their infinite field of grass.

And hey, if we are being controlled by something like in the matrix, then why would they simply not prevent that such movies as the "matrix" comes out which makes us think in a direction that could be potentially dangerous for them?

Well I don't know. In some way it would bring a lot of hope to think of this world as being totally false, and the struggle to reach "another world" would be like a kind of religion. And I can perfectly understand why a lot of people would believe in that.

What about astral projection and the astral worlds, are they also "false" then, another layer to the matrix?


In my next life I will specialize in giving answers in stead of asking questions all the time

hey thank you very much for that massive post, phew it took some time to get through it.

I don't really know what to think about what you are writing. in one way it appeals to my way of thinking that those "cassiopaean's" are coming and somehow forcing us through to the 4th density making people face their problems and overcoming them all at once.

But I never said that I like my way of thinking, it is just something I do, think in that way.

But I choose to remain skeptical towards it. It sounds a bit crazy to be honest... something is coming from somewhere I have never heard of to change mankind. Perhaps I should try to do some reading on that page, but if YOU say that there are oceans of text there, then already there my breath is taken away. But I do want to cast anything away before I have read it. But right now it sounds very mysterious.

I read your post in the astral projection section about the thing about you thought that you were being influenced by some sort of aliens. I have always sought not to come up with such conclusions, they tend to make me insanely paranoid, well if we are being controlled by aliens, then perhaps I should be

But hey, can we take this up again in 2012 ? then there will be prove right? At least I do not want to run around outside claiming that doomsday is upon us, and then be ticked off as nothing happens... damn.... yet another false prophecy, well it is a good thing that I have 100 other doomsday prophecies in my book, bwarhahah!


Not that it is anything close to what you are saying. But that was the kind of thought that came to me. Sure, it is very likely that it is society that has influenced me to deny such obvious truths right?

To be honest, I am getting a bit tired of searching and searching for something that I can believe in that also makes sense to me. The only thing that I m certain of is that I am NOT happy hence the search. Actually, the thought of doing drugs appeals to me! At least I sometimes see it as an excellent alternative to this misery here. The misery came out of nowhere, I never asked to by unhappy. So that would be a fine way to mock destiny, doing drugs and feeling happy.

What is the difference between being and feeling happy? I know, it is YOU! You are the only ones to tell me as I am doing heroin that I am not happy, just feeling happy!
Perhaps I will find the biggest meanest guy with a baseball bat and insult him insanely much. Then I would spend the rest of my days in a hospital with a morphine drop, feeling totally good – good plan?

I know that if I suddenly felt happy for no apparent reason, I would abandon this search for higher destiny in a second and just go around and feel happy. This was never ever what I intended, this is just the result of feeling bad, of not knowing who why and where I am. I am hoping that I will find happiness by going here in the hope that "enlightment" will make me happy.

But yes, deep down I know that running around searching for this "holy grail" is not the answer, but I do it anyway just for the sake of doing something I guess.

Christ I am tired..... I have a Danish oral exam two days from now, it is filling up my mind more than it is supposed to.

Well goodnight. Sorry for this last part of nonsense, hopefully I will gain a more positive perspective tomorrow

the woman laura that does the channeling is always seeking the secrets to enlightenment (to skip steps), but the ones coming through won't give those answers. they used the analogy referring to the shift between 3rd and 4th density. they asked her where one goes after they finish 3rd grade. she answered 4th. they asked her if it was necessary for the person to know all about 4th grade in order to move up. she said no that you only have to finish all the lessons of 3rd grade to move up to 4th
333

That is exactly my philosophy!! Stop trying to escape the important lessons, they might require work and you might get hurt along the way, but we need them!!!

Hey I was wondering when you would post something! Now it happened nice to see you again!

And hey, the thing that was edited out, and which you have now reposted. Even though I might get smacked by an admin now, it is mostly the thoughts I had in mind when I started this post.

Now I will quote it anyway because I think it is very very well written!

it is true that a lot of people are picking it up for this reason. the "new age" fluffy trend that puts them in some "special" standing. i see people drinking bottled water and i get the same sick knot in my stomach...that they actually believe that will cut the mustard (sotospeak). that they're making some contribution, and doing yoga, or meditating, and buying organic is suppose to make up for all the other lazy and selfish areas in their life.

This is actually exactly what I am talking about, I just didn't have the skills to put it as clearly
This was actually what I intended people to confront right from the beginning. To see if there was something generally flawed in that statement, if I was right or wrong. Well thank you for putting it clear !!

It is not because I have against the people here, it is just that I get the impression that everybody are in so much peace with them selves and have so much great experience with everything, I just wanted to know if this goes any deeper than just the appearance?

We progress to the 4th density when the physical body expires. The level depends on the level of perfection and therefore vibration of the Astra-Mental bodies, not simply on how much you know.

this is what I hate!!! Simply plainly hate!!! GRR!  I read this every where! How do you know it? is it something you have experienced with astral projection? Well if that applies when you astral project, what makes you think that it also applies when you die. If you have died.......(yes it sounds stupid...) well then how can you be here writing about it?!? then I guess I have to do a lot of energy work and a lot of astral projection in order to vibrate higher otherwise I will go to one of the lower astral realms aka. Hell. I guess that I have to buy your book then I order to go to heaven. Hmm where I have I seen this before? Was that not something practiced by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, that you could buy yourself away from hell? letters of indulgence?

Well it seems to be very popular to flame you because that you advertise you book on this page, well I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is that statement that if you have low vibrations, then you go to hell. Well when you are very happy then you have high vibrations but if you are not then you have low vibrations and then you are doomed, and now there is even no hope, because you will take your unhappiness with you in the astral. And I guess that there will be a lot of other unhappy people there as well... well how on earth are you ever supposed to be happy then??

Please elaborate on that, it is one of the things that I have come to fear the most actually..... I cannot even argue with you because I have never visited the astral planes  (not that I am aware of at least).

hey thanks for that reply!

On Knightlight's comment, what he said was that you can't see the space that separates your arm from the air next to it. Just as you can't see the space that separates each and every cell of your arm. I'm getting a little off topic here, but he is saying what physicists are also beginning to discuss. 90% or more of everything in our physical world is space! Theoretically, and maybe factually, there is nothing stopping us from being able to walk through walls except our perception of solidity. I totally agree with Knightlight's thoughts, though I don't accept all of Buddism's tenants.

well if the thing is that i cannot see the space seperating my arm from the air, then that is really just a problem with my eyes, if the truth is that every cell really is seperated how can all then be one, which was the main statement right?

Now, as to the existence of emotions...
Consider that everything we think and feel originates from electrical (or energetic) impulses moving through our brain. Destroy the pathways those impulses travel, or take away the impulses, and you do, indeed, have nothing! So in that sense, you are correct. However, that doesn't negate the reality of the emotion! How's that for a cunnundrum!

That is exactly my thought too. Everything that we know or can is due to those 5 physical senses we have, well if we cut the nerves to those, then nothing would exist..... at least not to the person. This has also made me wonder about something ells.

We like to think that we have some sort of "higher purpose" with our lives. At least we cannot seem to be satisfied with just being alive, as most of the other animals of the planet can. I just wonder, is the a unfortunate side effect of our brain? Our brain is the thing that has made us become the dominating species on this planet. We can use our physical world better than other animals because of the creative ways of our brain, I guess it is our ability to ask "what if" that has driven us so far – what if we now rubbed this piece of wood against another piece of wood, that will create heat..... BANG fire was created. Well what if (hehe you see ) this has just backfired at us? what if this search for meaning is the false outcome of our intelligence? Suddenly survival was no longer a problem for us so we made up all these terms of "higher purpose" and "search for truth" and so on.
Well again, Knightlight , those things are just labels, and I really cannot see anything beyond those labels. "higher purpose" is not build by atoms, it is not build by anything, it is mere idea, it is just a label floating like a piece of wood in a false ocean that we ourselves have created.
If there was such a thing as "higher purpose" would it not be weird if only the smart ones could find it? What about all the animals not thinking those thoughts, are they then doomed?

Well I guess I went a bit off topic there but that seems to be quite normal in this thread

Hmm I am quite dizzy in my head. I don't think that I have ever tried to think so much before  

I think I will take run now, I need to close down my mind for a while and digest the new knowledge. That shouldn't prevent you from posting though

Thank you very much for making that clear! I had a feeling that I was exaggerating... it is of course only the labels that do not exist, this makes the whole world seem a bit more sane.

Can you see the space that seperates your arm from the air next to it? There is no gap. You are one with the air and everything around you. You are part of one gigantic living breathing existance that goes even beyond our own galaxy.

Things do exist. The labels are the illusion. Look around you. Erase your labels. Look at your monitor, but dont see it as a monitor, just see it!!! Look around you, see all that sorrounds you, and see the space that fills the area between. Both are just as solid and present. Without the space, what is solid would not exist.

Didn't you just say that there was no space separating my arm from the air? Then what do you mean "without the space, what is solid would not exist" you just made me believe that everything was connected and there was no space..... argh, I wish my brain would connect better with it self so I would avoid this constant stream of misunderstandings.

Well thank you letting me know that things exist

And I might just look into Buddhism when I get some spare time! I guess it will be worth it.

[body]

Seeker, I think I know where you're coming from when you say virtually everything is selfish. But I think you misunderstand where selfishness becomes a bad thing. Selfishness is a living organism's urge to survive. Plants are selfish -- invasive grass chokes out less competitive plants. The grass doesn't care about the well being of other plants. That's selfish. Does the grass "sin" in its unadulterated selfishness? I don't know. Selfishly, that's not my problem.  

I guess that you might be right.... Very right actually! I guess that it is because that I am frustrated with the fact I am not able to find any so called "ultimate truths" to hold on to. What is selfishness and when does it become bad. I guess I could also ask when a hole is a hole? Is it when it has a depth of 30 centimetres and a diameter of 1 meter? Or must it be at the size of a cup, or a meteor crash? Nobody really knows when a hole is a hole and we will never find an answer to that question. So the way that I see it, in order for me to live with it, I might have to go with Knighlight's solution: there is no hole. Or to be more relevant, there is no such thing as selfishness, only ways to survive, which sometimes must include the sacrificing of other things in order to insure your own survival. like your said greatoutdoors. Like when the grass chokes the weaker plants though it cannot be called selfish, that wouldn't be fair to grass (lol). The grass was here long before us and our definitions of what is what, and no such thing as selfish exists for the grass, nor does the grass exist, nothing is, that is all an illusion, and illusion needed for man to better "understand" the world. Hmmm I guess you were right Knightlight... or ells it is just me getting carried away by the moment and R.E.M. I might snap out of it in a moment!

But if nothing exists, what is the point of trying to understand anything. The concept of understanding must also be false, as understanding is a measure to understand the labels and definitions, then it is not needed. Hmm

But then what about happiness, does that also not exist? Is happiness not just also a definition? Then if I now realise that noting is. What is then the thing that I, in confusion, am banging my head into? It feels real enough... hmm well, I guess I better study Buddhism some more

Have you never stood outside on a blustery day, watching roiling clouds shift from silver to gray, with the wind trying to pick you up and take you with it, and never felt your spirits lift?! Have you never had a dog dance enthusiastically around you when you set down its food, then felt a smile through your whole body as that friend dives into her dinner?! Can you think of nothing that, just for the pure pleasure of it, makes you feel good?! If that is true, you sincerely have my pity, for you must be supremely unhappy.

well I find that it is mostly the actors in films that seem to be happy about something like that. It is like birdsong, birdsong has never been meant to make humans happy, it is in reality just those h0rny birds trying to attract a mate, it is actually a competition where the h0rniest bird wins lol yeah you must flame me for writing that, I deserve it  

Well if I must seem ignorant again I think that the reason why such things as a cool breeze has a good effect on humans in because of what we connect with it. the wind will make us happy because it has a nice effect on our body and the brain released chemicals that make you happy, okay? Well again this is not an ultimate truth. The wind is not good in it self, it is what we connect with it that might be, but mostly because of the effect it has on our body, yes read that sentence again!!! (I think that this is important so please follow me on this one!). well what if when the Jews were shot by the Nazis during 2nd World War there was this same cool wind every time the Nazis were coming, then the Jews would fear that wind like nothing ells!
I guess that is why I do not really think so much about a cool wind, it does not really mean anything to me so I do not get overly exited when it is windy, actually... I get sick when it is VERY windy. The last time we had a nasty storm over Denmark, I was lying in bed hallucinating with my blood boiling at 40 degrees Celsius. Not cool!

Greatoutdoors, I think that you might have many great experiences in the nature (hence the name I guess) and therefore you become happy when the nature is "alive" so to speak.

And what was my point now... uhm....

EDIT: ahh i know, don't feel pity for me because i do not find the same happiness in doing/seeing the things that you connect with happiness, it is all subjective!

do you by "out off the road" mean that they are on a bridge or something? and by "they" are you referring to both the child and the atheist or just children in general?
perhaps i do not understand it right, lol

Probably because I can't type and left too much out...  D'oh!

"If an atheist sees a truck barreling down on a child in the road, and pushes the kid out of the way knowing full well they will die in the process, that is selfless."

By the way, I know how frustrated you might be about the astral projection process.  I've tried it the past few days, trying to get myself back into the habit, and no amount of white light, balloons, elevators, ropes or water flowing through the body is leading anywhere besides slightly increased dream clarity.

Of course, that is the first step on the way there for me, and what happened before I projected five or so years ago.  It's just that this is one of those things that suddenly jumps you one day when you succeed, annoying as that is.

Lifting weights:  Lift 10 pounds today, 12 pounds tomorrow, 20 pounds next week, 100 pounds three months from now.

Measurable success.

Astral projection:  Fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, fail, succeed.

Surprising success!

Chris

Yes it does make more sense now, but as far as i can see the fact that the atheist knows that they will both die in the process makes the action unselfish, but i would think of as the atheist just being plainly stupid... he will die and the boy will die that is stupid! perhaps stupid people are the only ones who are truly unselfish, interesting!

Well it seems that some people just have a natural ability to astral project, and others who are totally abandenend by that skill. i think that i am one of those people.
i do not even think that i am supposed to "AP", but then again, i don't think that there is anything that i am supposed to, not that i am aware of at least....

i do remember one time though. i must have been about 6 years old. i had just woken up early in the morning. i decided to go back to sleep because i was still tired. then i remember dreaming, not very clearly, but i remember speaking to this man and suddenly i became aware of that i was in a dream so i took him by the shoulders and shook him violently while i was shouting "it is just a dream, you are in a dream, it is just a dream" then i remember telling myself to wake up, and it was actually a bit difficult!! but i woke up and had some breakfast and never told anyone about.... before now :O

but that was the only time! nothing "mysterious" has ever happened to me. apart from that i have never ever experienced anything of the things discussed here, but i believe in it anyway, at least a little i see no reason why not to.

but i guess that i won't be having much of a change AP'ing in the near future, i just watched "The Exorcist" from 1972 and D@MN it is scary and it made me wonder, if there is such a thing as "God" or ones Higher Self or whatever it is called, would it not be logical if there was a absolute counterpart to that, something totally opposite? perhaps not an entity, but at least something very evil :O

stupid movie! i suppose i should have kicked myself as rented "Exorcist - The Beginning" now i am totally convinced of the existence of an ultimate evil entity. But i somehow like to get scared, i can't help it, it is scary.....

anyway i like your view on problems and how to deal with them Tom. But i do not think it will work on me.
in my way of thinking all problems require a amount of pain to resist in order to deal with them. at least problems here in the physical world.
i have come to that conclusion because I consider myself to have low pain resistance! i do not like to try too hard to do something i guess that this is the due to the low pain tolerance, i also think this is tied to motivation. well let me first come with my view on motivation then. if some i you have read my previous post "how to do something without a reason" i talk about that i have difficulty in motivation myself. i think that is because that motivation in it self a "pain-barrier-overcoming". at least it involves overcoming a pain barrier whether that barrier is physical or mental. pain is pain! i actually think it is a form of pain that prevents me from doing stuff(like doing my homework or taking a run or whatever). and motivation is the thing that push you into that pain which holds the task you are going to perform. and as i see it, the pain involved with doing something is always the same, it is just a matter of how pain resistant YOU are, as to why i can do many things without any trouble is because i have become immune to that pain (like  when i decide to move myself somewhere, i just do it, because whatever small amount of pain required to resist or overcome in order to that does not affect me). lol i am sounding like a sick sadomasochist huh?

well it is just a theory that seems to apply from MY point of view to the aspects of "doing", maybe you see it from somewhere ells, and i know i am going to get the "wtf are you talking about you freak?" hmm, i guess that would be something to expect. well i will try to explain again then

This has nothing to do with me loving pain. and do not think about the pain you get when you fall or burn yourself. i actually don't really know what to call it, so i thought that it had to be some sort of "pain". well what do you call the thing that makes you not want to do something, there must be some sort of obstacle otherwise i would have done much of what i want now!! hmm perhaps it is a fear, a fear for what? for pain maybe? therefore i stick to the pain concept

well, my experience is that if i do not keep on trying to solve a problem, i do not get i solved. that might be because my way of doing things differs much form the way that you do things. but again i like your idea, but i have just experiences that say something ells.

EDIT: corrected the most severe errors in my post

Hey Seeker,

Funny, but I had this exact same conversation with an atheist friend of mine a few years ago!  Usually he always sticks to his guns and stubbornly never shuts up until he's sure you've given up.  However, this time, and this time only, I made HIM think for a change about this concept of all actions being selfish.  Maybe you'll like it, too:

"If an atheist pushes a child out of the road seconds before the child dies, knowing full well they will die in the process, that is unselfish."

How's that?

Thanks for an interesting read in the post,
Chris

Yes i think that would be a very unselfish thing to do, if i understand it right!

"If an atheist pushes a child out of the road seconds before the child dies, knowing full well they will die in the process, that is unselfish."

do you by "out off the road" mean that they are on a bridge or something? and by "they" are you referring to both the child and the atheist or just children in general?
perhaps i do not understand it right, lol

Once you enter the astral, your life will change. It is honestly 100% mind blowing. Have you ever read a book or watched a movie that just took your breath away and made you say "wow! That was intense!" You havent seen nothin' yet my friend. With only your greatest good in mind I pray you take my advice.

I have tried, you must believe me i have!!! but after hours of just lying down relaxing and visualizing robes and ladders and balloons levitating, i don't feel anything. i can't even get to the state of vibrations!! i have never ever even felt vibrations.... i want astral project, but either i just can't or ells i am doing something terribly wrong!

i have even tried "The Gateway Experience", but that was no go either. i also find that i cannot do what the voice says (speaking of the voice, is that Robert Monroe himself speaking?). i definitely have a problem going from focus 10 to focus 12. "Feel your awareness expanding" how the %¤#¤%¤# can i make my awareness expand just like that? it gets frustrating. it is like telling you to get smarter "now you feel your IQ raising"

Perhaps it is because i am not as overly excited about it as i was a year ago when i first read about it not that i was able to do anything back then either....

when i get some money, i will definitely buy Robert's book!! i have been willing to for quite some time, but i cannot buy it in any Danish stores, so i have to order in from amazon, and then i have to pay for delivery and tax and so on, so it gets expensive!

Seeker of Matter, the problem you are facing is very simple. Every time you are feeling discomfort, it is because you are resisting something. Learn to accept what is instead of resisting it. You don't have to like it; you just have to acknowledge what is before you can get a grasp on it to change it. Maybe you will even find that it is not worth the effort to change or that it doesn't really need to change. The important thing is that your resistance is only making you suffer and there is nothing to gain from sufferring.

I am not quite sure what it is that you think i am resisting? is it happiness? help me out here, what you are writing does sound logical to me

speaking of logic

Through my experience I have come to the conclusion that the only truely great thing about this stage of existance is that it is so stable, mundane, and organized. The "astral" is wildly unpredictable and so easily manipulated both consiously and subconsiously that it can be a bit annoying. Atleast I can wake up in the morning and count on the fact that my life will be routine and humdrum 99 out of 100 days. It is a blessing.

I have come to think about if the physical world and the astral world are two extremes of the same spectre? both too much. the physical plane is too dense too heavy and unchangeable, it limits your thoughts and mind because of the unbendable laws of the physical. Whereas the astral is (from what i have read, and from what you just wrote:)) too airy and changeable. what you think becomes reality, meaning that you could be a potential god, also meaning that you could be absolutely insane and image great harm on the beings in the astral and that would just happen.

this is just like the brain. it has a right part which controls imagination and creativity and so and a left part which controls the logics. persons relying totally on either side are "false" so to speak. no part of the brain is sufficient in it self, but both sides working cooperatively will give the best results.

are we perhaps supposed to learn the logics here on earth because that we otherwise would just flow away in a totally uncontrollable stream of feelings in the astral?

we must be here for some reason, why would we be here if this was all useless? i think that we must embrace the logics here, and take them with us in the astral so that we will become more..... reasonable there

i sometimes become a little scared, mostly because it seems as if the afterlife has lost its mystics, and by that also its hope. people say that when we die, we go to the astral, and there we can go to one of the 7(?) planes according to our vibrations and that is it!!!. it all seems laid out.

i am quite mad because you have taken away my dream of travelling up to god when i die, who is a old friendly man with a huge beard, and there are fluffy skies all over, and angels with wings and harmonic sounds and everything is well, all will become clear to you and you will be happy all the time BAM!!!!! dream breaks, "you don't go there you stupid moron, you go to the astral planes, and i have a map of them here, and according to your vibrations, well it seams you will be spending some time in the lower astral realms, have a nice stay in torture land, and watch out for soul eating demons while you are at it, because if you think negative thoughts, they will come, and don't be scared either because of you are, then they will also come!!"
then when i am in the astral planes, i will be dreaming of another place when i die in the astral.... It will all go around in circles!!!!
have you ever thought about that this might just be a astral world that has been de-mystified?  

now i am making no sense again.....

comments?

well, this only applies when we try to find ultimate truths, beyond the humans. well i am not trying to do that. i am choosing to stay narrow-minded and hold on to these terms as selfishness and good and bad even though they are build on a non-existing foundation.

oh...    nevermind.  I guess when I come to these forums I try to remain as close to ultimate truths as I can, and try to even during normal life.  Its a struggle for me to really take any view of these human terms other than a light hearted usage simply to get by in society.  I didnt take anything you said negatively really, there where no insults thrown or you didnt say my view where wrong, so its all good.

hehe, i guess what that quote says is that i am an idiot huh

I like philosophy as well, but i find that my mind travels too far out and that i really need my mind to be focused here on earth, on gravity and mass and 3D and the society in general. i am living here, my body is living here and it is bound to the rules of this world, so i cannot just escape it while my body is still alive. i guess than when you are dead and you no longer have a physical body to take care of, then you can philosophize all that you want. but doing it here simply creates a nasty duality, well that is my experience.

enlighten me

I understand what your saying Seeker, and I'm having trouble explaining it , so I'm just going to put it plainly.

My actions are not the only the that warms my heart like the grin from the old man did. I also get that feeling when i see birds flying above my head, children playing and laughing, watching the tree in our yard and the birds that rest in it, our cats enjoying a good petting, and so many more. Its not just my actions that make me feel like that, its everything around me that does it as well

Again, its really hard to explain ^^;

I do understand why you are questioning why we do this, its all to human to want to understand. I'm constantly asking questions, whether it be about the actions of the ones around me, or how something works, I'm a scientist at hart Laughing

well thank you for being understanding. it is not because i suddenly hate everybody and that i want to say that the human race is doomed (i guess you could get that impression). the thing about selfishness is not something that i have been working my entire life trying to prove. it was just a thought that some day passed through my head for no reason.

well it is great that you say you understand, that makes me feel a little less like the odd one out
And what greatly lifts my spirit is the things you say that make you happy, like children playing and laughing. i hope that i some day will learn to see the beauty in that too and be happy just because of that. i find happiness hard do achieve when you have critical mind. so when you say that you too are a scientist at hart, and that you manages to stay happy anyway, well that is impressive

Thank you all very much for your replies. it seems as if you are having a bit of trouble in understanding what it is that i am saying. and i do not blame you at all. i find myself very hard to understand

But maybe it is because the thing that i am asking is very very simple, and i have perhaps made the question in a a too confusing way.
well, firstly can we agree that if somebody tells that you are selfish, that is a bad thing. nobody wants to be selfish, and i can perfectly understand that.

I guess my statement is: everything that makes you glad by helping others is selfish, because that it makes you feel good.
If somebody wants to object then i guess this is where you do it!
That "good-feeling" must come from somewhere right? there is a reason why a action makes you feel good. there is some thought passing through you head that tells you, from what you know, that you did a good thing and that induces the good feeling.

a brilliant example of that is what you wrote Ryu-Kanjin  

One of the greatest memories i have is the day i went to the Denver museum of art. When i was walking in, i seen this elderly man, he was pulling a oxygen tank behind him and was at least 80 years old. I noticed no one was even looking at the man so i held the doors open and helped him out. He smiled at me the whole time, just remembering that smile worms my heart.

It made you feel good, and i it should, because the effect of your action made the old man pass untroubled through the door, and that is good. but would your hearth has been as warm if it was the guy standing next to you that had helped the old man? i guess not, the reason why your hearth felt warm was not because of the fact that the man could go through the door, but because YOU enabled him to do so, it is YOU that could harvest the potential credit for that.
let me say that if it actually does warm you hearth to see other people do good things to others in the same way it does when you do good things to others. then you have evolved above my imagination and i will not question your actions.
i hope that you can see what i mean because this is what i would define as selfish, even though you might have only have been willing to recognize the good feeling as being the result of helping the old man only, not that it was YOU that helped him.

i am not trying to put you down or anything, i am just trying to make you see the true face of your corrupted actions.... lol

XenXheng

I'm confused... please explain to me how doing something for yourself is a problem. And what would be the truly "good" thing to do in its stead?

Chris

i guess that the opposite thing of selfishness then would have been to kick the old man and feel really bad about it afterwards, that would clearly not make you feel good about yourself, and i do see how this does not really  resonate with the term "unselfishness". i hope that you can see that i myself have great problems in finding the recipe of doing true good.

and i guess i can attack all of your actions in this way.  

Knucklebrain:

I will open a spiritual center where I teach people how to open their eyes. Teach people how to be themselves and not your average clone. I look at all the teenagers nowadays. They all wear ripped jeans or Dickies, tshirt, messy hair and trucker hat. There is no individualism. There is no hope. The younger crowd has a bad bad outlook on the future. Not there is anything wrong with Dickies and trucker hats, but I can't tell one from the other.

well, if your goal is to enlighten people then i guess that you will feel as good about it when your neighbour opens HIS center and teaches people the things that you would have taught? no? i thought not.
I guess that what matters most to you is that YOU do it, that you somehow make people aware of you and remember you. and if that is just remotely true, then will it not be fair to define that as selfish?

Knightlight, i found very much meaning in what you wrote about that the chair and that it in reality does not exist.
"Chair" is as you write a term created by humans, there is no such thing as a universal true description of a chair, it just something we have called this thing made by by nails and wood put together in a special form. and i can also follow you in that ""we are" is also a human created term, and also not an universal law.
i guess that if you continue that line you can say that "selfish" does not exist. well perhaps you are right if you consider selfishness to be like the chair - created by humans and therefore not "true" or not existing. well we can go beyond the label and look at the action itself just like you ended up splitting the chair into atoms. selfishness does not exist only actions, and that leads us further on to define whether these actions are good and bad. and since good and bad are also terms made up by humans describing how we experience various of actions on our body, then i guess we can't make up if the actions are good or bad because those terms are false, and therefore we cannot define selfishness and therefore it does not exist.
well, this only applies when we try to find ultimate truths, beyond the humans. well i am not trying to do that. i am choosing to stay narrow-minded and hold on to these terms as selfishness and good and bad even though they are build on a non-existing foundation.
i am just trying to explain to you what it is that i see here and now, and what i have come to realize about it. well the theory that nothing really exists is indeed intriguing, but since that i find myself to exist here in this world of non-existence i would like to discuss this non existence before i cast it away.
now i think that I am rambling... lol


I guess that if you are unselfish, i will never know it because the moment you come and try to defend your unselfishness, you become selfish. "look at me, i am very unselfish, and i will even write a book about it to SHOW you how unselfish i am bla bla bla!!!"

from what i see, the truly unselfish man is the one that is able to sit all alone and feel good about the good that everybody ells does and not say it.

well fire up your gear and flame me already

EDIT: it does not help to say things twice lol....

Practice #1 and there's no problem, in my opinion! You're not hurting anyone... Smile

well that is the thing. that is also what i would consider as being purely selfish without the side effects of benefiting others. if one can be okay with that. then he/she would have great peace of mind in every other action he/she would make as the person acknowledges being selfish but lives on anyway not feeling bad about it.

can anybody come up with an action that helpes others and in no way makes you feel good?

I don't understand your arguments at all. Just because you take care of yourself you're selfish? It doesn't make sense.

well i don't think it is so difficult. most things that we do are selfish, in one way or another. well when it benefits you and you know it is it not right to call it selfish when you consciously practice that action?

i actually had trouble sleeping last night as i thought this thing about selfishness over and over again. and i must admit it almost gave me a headache. but then i realized that the reason it annoyed me so much was that i have always thought it was very bad being selfish.

i have come to doubt that now. perhaps being selfish is good, at least it would justify it.

am i just way off here? sigh....

I guess I will start taking my pills again and go to sleep wearing the straitjacket which my mother has so kindly sewn for me.

yeah i have read something like that too. But i am having great difficulty in imagining a human being without an EGO. i would find that impossible. that would make you somewhat NOT human..... a desire-less being. i really do not believe in that. do you find yourself to be enlightened and without an ego then?

[everything]

I tend to leave the concepts behind, erase all thought and just be. Expand my grasp of the wider reality i guess. Without the use of these 2 things, I would still be stuck in the rut of modern day life, lacking the spiritual muscle to explore things people only dream of, literally. Cool I can understand your feelings that it is selfish, and in a way, anything we do for ourself is self-ish.

That is what i am trying to say. That everything we do very deep down is based on something simple as selfishness. and that this selfishness is the core-cause in everything that we do, and that it apparently also follows us into the realms of spirituality and that some people choose to think themselves above it when they are actually as entangled in it as the average everyday human.

and as i wrote before this spirituality journey seems (when i look at it with my paranoid eye) that this is just another level greediness, just one step up the ladder from physical materialism. i bet that you are happy with what you have achieved now. and you treasure your state of "enlightment" with the same intensity as the one has worked his entire life to buy himself the house of his dreams. This will make him rise above the crowd and shine just a little brighter. and he likes it - the feeling of being MORE and BETTER than others is intoxicating. just as the feeling of having build up so much energy that you feel you could electrify somebody. it gives the exact same satisfaction as having collected of a lot of valuable physical stuff. but in the end it makes you happy and secure because that you feel better than others.  
i am not saying that it is totally unmoral to feel that way. i have already myself come to the rather harsh conclusion that there are some people that are able to run faster, stay healthier, be more kind, have better moods, think much sharper and so on than others. and i have come to live with the fact that the indeed ARE better than other humans in terms of performance - and i mean performance at every level of what a human can - like in  forgiveness and in the ability to love. so they are better and they are therefore also allowed to feel better (lol)!
yes i guess this was what Hitler referred to as the "Übermensch"  (not that I share any of his other concepts like the killing of the Jews.)

I guess that what i am trying to do is to get YOU people to admit that even this house of enlightment and spirituality is build of the same stones of selfishness as everything ells!

Come on people say it: "We are selfish, we are selfish, we are selfish"

Ok then. tell me your reasons for doing energy work and meditation. i will bet my right arm that you are doing it for a purpose (i write it because i have been trying to do things without a purpose - which is hard!!) and if so would you elaborate on your purpose and what you think your core-motivation was and then tell me if it cannot be tracked back to something selfish?

i will not be shy to admit that i consider myself selfish!

But can we agree that the motivation behind weight-lifting and energy work can be of the same selfish kind? That it is in order to make us seem better and stronger than others and that thought alone is considered to be NOT GOOD? and therefore the main purpose is corrupted. no matter if the way it is accomplished is good.

A pirate ship with a good crew is bad. A good ship with a pirate crew is also bad. Only a good ship with a good crew is good.

I have been doing some reading about energy work, and I have even tried to practice it myself. I used NEW and I felt the tingling and so on that is to be expected with it. But then I stopped and thought for a moment. What is it that energy work supposed to do you? Is it supposed to make you happier or stronger or smarter?

I have tried to understand chakras and how they are connected to the different kinds of feelings of a human being. I then read that if you are hurt emotionally – ex. if your girl- or boyfriends breaks up with you, then it can affect you hearth chakra. Well that sounds logical. Then a closed down hearth chakra is the indication of that you feel bad but not the cause of it (very important).....
Let me put it in another way. You life is not caused by you chakras, you chakras are caused by life and by affecting your life you affect your chakras and NOT the other way around. Please comment.

Is it just me or do you people (sorry for generalizing) think that doing energy work will make you happier in life? I would have loved to weave that question a bit around so it wouldn't seem so direct and childish but that was my core-thought.
Are you people who are doing energy work unhappy for some reason? And is it not true that people that have never ever done energy work or heard about it can actually have much much higher energy levels than people that have done it for years?
Is it then not just an illusion that energy work will do anything for you but make you tingle a bit? Should the "real" energy not be used to correct the physical problems in stead of manipulating energy?

I can give an example. Yesterday I went to my Danish test-exam where I had to write an essay. I had been very nervous for that exam many days before, and that of course made me feel bad. So by some sort of reflex-thought I began doing some energy work. Then I stopped and realized that it was not going to help anything – the only thing that would help was going to that exam and finishing it. The reason I felt bad was because I doubted in my abilities to analyze a text and find the message of it.
When I had finished my exam I felt greater than I had felt and there was no energy work involved!

Can some of you relate to that?

Do you do energy work in order to overcome problems in your life? Or do you at least think that energy work will easy your lives?
In the end is energy raising not just caused by fear and doubt in one self? "oh I must do more energy work or I will have low energy – perhaps even lover than others' and that will in the end make me less of a human than them!!"
Can we call it a more accepted quest for power (and perhaps even more extended as you will take it with you when you die) do you think that it will make you more powerful in the afterlife?

Please prove me wrong.....

Hehe i can imagine. Well it seams that people feel better about their hands and potential way of life now that they can compare them to my wussy hands

But as to the lines in my hand. they look exactly like the ones in my fathers hand. except that he doesn't have that "mental-breakdown-line" in his left hand. my sister's hand on the other hand ( ) looks just my mother's. Makes one think about genetic inheritance rather than spiritual destiny.  

And now for a crazy thought. In math we have a X and Y value. When you input a X value you get a Y Value. And if you have the Y value you can calculate what X was.
Now, apparently your life is in some way, that I will not try to understand, written in these mysterious lines in your hand. So what you do in life will show on you palm so to say. We can call life for X and the lines for Y.
So my thought is: what would happen if you wanted to be somebody ells and simply CUT new lines in your hand. Do you think that your life would change? I guess the theory is true enough. Anybody willing to test it ?

The above part is stupid and is not meant to be taken seriously I just felt like writing it. It was either that or nothing, i should have gone with nothing huh?

I am a mere high school student. why?

Naaa, that actually did not help very much but thank you for trying? Are anybody going to help me dig a hole that I can throw myself into now that I have been discovered to be the lamest person alive No?

Can anyone explain to me why my mother goes around telling me that "Life is like a box of chocolate" ?

Psan thanks for your reading. it is always nice to have some more views even though yours seemed to lock me in a impenetrable box where I am faced with very limited intelligence no friends no skills and a life that is generally long and boring

I find it curios that you say I am a young soul. Sometimes when I lie in my bed I get a feeling of being terrible old. I really can't explain it any better. I just feel very very old.

Well thank you anyway.