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I actually visited that site recently it was listed as a members website on one of the forums I was in
possible the spirit.co.uk one that I went to

is this the same manuel that i message with on the nde forum?

thanks

Well i've been in the step right before an obe, and i know if i pushed i could of gotten an obe.  Anywayz, u gotta get into deep trances, but the big sign is EXTREME vertigo, where its like your fallin down an endless pit.  U can't even tell what direction is up, down, or even where your arms are.  If u want me to explain more (ive done a whole load of [edit]) u can catch me on aim, xshadowxspecterx.

everyone's experience must be different cause i never had any of that

what else will i feel before  an obe?

a lot of vibrating and possibly different noises like hearing yourself snoring

when it is happening to me after the vibrations i can see through my eyelids

Yeah, I agree Selski. In fact not only will it invalidate the first experience, it may even cause doubts of future experiences not caused by drugs.

Finally,  I advise not to circumvent the natural order of things, but try astral projection the natural, albeit, hard way. As with all quick fixes, there is always some price to pay - and it may not be worth it, it could even forfeit your success in astral projection forever.

so you would say the same thing about the brain wave entrainment programs?

What is the difference ?