Messages

Personally, I never wake up with vibes.  In fact, I would say 99.9% of my projections never experience any sort of detectable shaking vibration.

On the contrary, when I'm about to project, my body gets extremely numb.  It's a little tough to describe, but when I feel that way, I imagine my arm start to melt into the ground.  Once I feel that "melting" sensation, I know that my astral arm is in fact out of my physical body.  I then exert a little effort and separate completely from the body.

I only say this because not everyone will experience vibrations, so don't try and focus on them too much.  In my opinion, many people look for these vibrations, and then they get discouraged when they don't experience them, or think that they are not making progress.

Congrats, Squeek.  I'll be joining you one of these days.  Of course, at the rate I'm going, you'll be pushing 100,000 posts by then.

quote:Originally posted by TorosDead

Alright, I appologize.  It was late and I was a little drunk when I wrote that, and obviously unitentionally offended some people.  You did help me with your response to my question, so sorry, I guess I should be more appreciative.  Thanks for your responses, didn't mean to cause drama.

Hey my friend.....apology accepted.  It takes a real man to come back and be so humble.  I too apologize if I was a little defensive.  Now let's have a beer!  []

Welcome to the board.  []

quote:Originally posted by TorosDead

Listen, this forum is important to me. I have reached a pivital time in my life and I seek true spirituality. I did not make this forum so that some of you could "catch up on old times", or talk about your almost "marital" status. If you want to talk about personal things, then e-mail eachother personally. I seek only help as to possible steps and/or solutions to attaining the next "stage" in an OBE. If you cannot/or do not desire to contribute, then please do not reply. I truly appreciate all the responses I have attained so far (they have honestly helped me), but if you have nothing productive to add to this particular forum, then it's simple.... please do not reply. Sorry for being such a willy, but I feel at this point that it's rather necissary. So, if you have advice I am grateful to hear it. If you want to chat with your friend about your week... please... this is not the place. Thank you!!!

Listen up, Toro.  Can I can you Toro?  Or would Mr. Dead be more appropriate?

You're acting like we purposely came into your little corner of the forum, and just started talking about life with no respect to the topic.  If you were to objectively look at the way the topic has progressed, any species higher than homo-erectus would see that there was no intention of bursting your little bubble.

You want me to stay on topic?  Ok....let me see.  I feel a "swaying sensation" in my head when I think about how serious you're taking this. []  I only hope that in 'real life', you don't treat people's real conversations the same way you treat online ones.  It may go something like this:

You: Hey Jeff, did you watch that football game yesterday?  

Jeff: Yeah, wasn't that great?

You: I agree.  Hey, what did you think about that touchdown pass where the guy jumped into the crowd?

Jeff: Oh man, that was awesome.  That chick that he almost knocked over was pretty hot though.  Reminded me of a girl I used to date.

You: PLEASE DON'T TALK ABOUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN FOOTBALL!!!

Hehehehe, sorry, I'm getting a kick out of this.  And oh look, I did it in your forum.  Just take a few deep breaths and I promise it will be ok.

quote:Originally posted by Mohamed

Does the astral exist? - No
When we die, do we go to the astral? - No, it does not exist.
Why then did I project into the astral? - You didn't.
Do spirit guides exist? - NO!

Wow, you must know a lot about astral projection and OBE's.  In fact, to have such definitive answers, you must have projected, what, 400-500 times?

quote:
So far I have left my body a total of 6 times.

Oh I see.  So in six projections, you feel that you have ALL the answers.  I have had hundreds of projections and even I don't have all the answers. There is one thing I do know for sure, though, and it's this: "Just when you think you know everything, something else comes along to show you otherwise."

Please don't think that I am attacking you or your views.  I just get a kick out of your blanketed statements after only 6 projections.  It almost reminds me of those people who experience something supernatural and then they immedietely try to teach others to follow their beliefs.

However, I welcome your opinions and observations, because it helps me to compare them up to mine and my experiences, which ultimately helps me find my own answers.  So for this, I thank you.

quote:
 With each of those experiences I was in the real waking state.  Nothing was distorted, nothing was out of place.  I could see everything, all around me, front, back, up, down, full 360 degrees.  The entire experience was based on thought.

I agree with everything you say here.....except I get the impression that you're equating 'thought' to something 'not real.'  Something 'made up' or imaginary.

It is true that when you are projecting, everything is influenced by thought.  What you may not realize is the same thing occurs in your 'real life' waking state.  You don't just walk into a room.  First there is a thought, and then you walk. It just so happens that we've become accustomed to these thoughts and turned them into feelings (ex. "I FEEL like going into this room."  In reality, everything, from the words you say to the type of car you drive, started out as a thought.)

So when you have no physical body to move around in, all you have are thoughts to propell you.  When you have no physical body to interact with, you no longer use your outer five senses but instead, you use your inner senses.

quote:
In this time, I have had 2 lucid dreams.  Those dreams are what some like to refer to as the astral plane.  I experienced things that where out of this world, but it was only a dream (even though it felt so real, and I felt the floating and everything).  I consider the astral nothing more than a higher state of awareness with in a dream, but nothing more than this.

Dreams are closely related to astral travelling and OBE's, so you're not too far off there.  You know, many people mistakingly think that astral experiences are dreams.  Why?  Because when they 'wake up' and come back to their outer senses, things seem dreamlike.  For example, if you think about a conversation that you had with someone in a dream, you rarely remember it word for word.  Instead, you remember what you said and what you meant.  

Now think about a real conversation you may have had in your childhood.  It could be something you had last week with a friend or family member.  9 out of 10 times, you cannot remember the exact words to the conversation. Hell, the only memory you have of the conversation is as solid as the ones you have in your astral experiences.  The only difference is that you tell yourself one was real and one was not, even though in the present, they are both in exactly the same place: a memory in your mind.

quote:
There is one primary distinction between a lucid dream (astral projection) and an OOBE.  With an OOBE you feel separation, you no longer feel your physical body, and you only feel your soul as I like to call it.  With a Lucid dream, you can still feel your body, anything that happens in the dream you feel on your body as well.  If you're having sex, your body's genitals will become aroused.  You don't believe me?  Next time you have an astral projection, take a min to pee, when you wake up look at your bed, do not be surprised if it is wet!

So I take it you've tried this pee test?  Go ahead, we won't laugh. []

quote:
When you die, you do not go to the astral.  If you did, your entire after life would be nothing more than a dream.

But you just admitted above that when you were dreaming, everything seemed real.  To quote you, you said, "With each of those experiences I was in the real waking state.  Nothing was distorted, nothing was out of place."  So I ask you, what would be wrong with dying and going to this "dream" if everything is real with no distortion?  Perhaps you will learn that when you are in that new body, then this physical life will seem as solid as a dream.

quote:
 When you die you project into what everybody else is in, the real waking state, an out of body experience, except this time, it's permanent.

It almost sounds like you put the astral plane below the RTZ.  I think I put them the other way around.  The closer you get to the spirit and the higher you vibrate, the less physical things become and the further away you get from the real time zone.

quote:
Can you contact the dead while having an OOBE?  Yes, to a certain extent.  You can speak with those who have died 40 days or less ago.  After 40 days, you can no longer contact this person.  I say 40 days because someone in my family died, and that person was around his family for 40 days (You could literally see him).

I laugh when I read these blanketed statements like "After 40 days, you can no longer contact this person."  No offense, but what's it feel like to have all the answers?

quote:
How about those spirit guides?  When you project, everything is based on thought.  If you think about a spirit guide, sure enough your mind will create one.

Well, f*** me running, I must be doing something wrong!  I can't tell you how many projections I've had where I've done EVERYTHING to try and contact my spirit guide, and nothing happened.  I've asked nicely, I've shouted, I've concentrated extrememly hard, and no one ever shows up.  Perhaps my mind isn't as focused as yours is.

quote:
 Several people have claimed to think about a daemon, and they will see one.  This is why you should remain calm while having an OOBE, this way you can explore the world (or universe if you so please), rather than exploring your thoughts.

Hmmmm.....perhaps if you explore your thoughts, you would know more about the world and the universe.  Just my two cents.

quote:Originally posted by Tenacious
lol that was a funny picture, where did it come from? LOL!! It looks like a rabbit on crack, grinning big and all!

Looks like something I would write about on my website:

http://myjokemail.com/KidDrawings.htm

quote:Originally posted by TorosDead

Please use this forum to answer questions and not catch up on old times.  Stick to the topic.  Thank you!

I shouldn't have to state the obvious, but Ralphm and myself have both replied to your question in this post.  It just so happens that Ralphm, in the process of replying to you, directed something towards me.  Therefore, just as I responded to YOUR post, I did the same to him.  Starting a whole other thread just to answer his simple question is almost as ridiculous as what you said in your last post. []

Hi Linda!

I wouldv'e said "Hi mate" since I see you're from down under, but being the American yank I am, saying "mate" to someone other than my wife could get me killed. []

Welcome to the board!  I look forward to reading your posts and experiences.

YEEEESSS! Finally it's changed!  For those of you who wondered what in the sam hell I was talking about, Squeek had it right on the money.  I saw that same bunny rabbit every single time I looked at my post!  Thanks for taking that screen shot, Squeek.  

Now I be content knowing my ugly mug is officially on all of my posts!

I think that is good advice.  To compliment what you said, I've always mentioned that you must be PASSIVE (or as you put it, gentle).  It's almost as if you have to just lay back and watch your body drift off to sleep as a third party observer.  Don't try and make anything happen, or even try to make sense out of the things you experience.  Just be passive and observant.

Good post.

quote:Originally posted by ralphm

To expand on what Jeff said (is he back? where has he been? I don't have time to check every topic so i'm not sure if he was really gone)

Hey my old friend,

Yes I am back, and yes, I've been gone.  I'm afraid 'life' got the best of me, and sucked up all my time.  I was mostly (and still am) busy with work and with running my website.  However, I also got married a few weeks ago.  Now that the marriage planning is over with, I have some free time which I am doing my best to spend here. []

Welcome to the boards.  Sounds like you'll fit in nicely here, and I look forward to hearing more about your experiences and techniques for inducing your projections. []

quote:Originally posted by no_leaf_clover

quote:Do you mean to tell me that you believe all of us who experience AP/OBE are having nothing more than really vivid dreams?

No. If I didn't believe in all of that I would have never found this site. I own a copy of Astral Dynamics.

Ok, because you had me confused when you wrote that first paragraph above.  []

[dream]

quote:Originally posted by no_leaf_clover
People just dream, etc., but hardly ever remember them. When people do remember them and maybe remember them clearly, they claim to have left their body and experienced other dimensions and other such ridiculous things.

Hey there no_leaf_clover.....am I missing something here?  I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic with this statement or not.  I look forward to all your posts regarding the Sumerians and the Annanuki (sp?), but I had to re-read what you wrote twice just for good measure.

Do you mean to tell me that you believe all of us who experience AP/OBE are having nothing more than really vivid dreams?

http://myjokemail.com

I couldn't resist the selfish plug!  Check out the following:
Kids Drawings: http://myjokemail.com/KidDrawings.htm
Goofy Bastards: http://myjokemail.com/GoofyBastards.htm
Hate Mail: http://myjokemail.com/letters.htm

I agree.  The more I do energy work with my chakras, the more I feel these pulses.  After all, when opened and active, chakras are a spinning spiritual energy center.  

Last night, I felt this pulsing in my root chakra, stomach, heart, throat, and especially my third eye.  In fact, my third eye felt like someone was trying to poke a finger through my forehead!  Not in a painful way though.  Just a lot of pressure.

This one seems to work.

1) First, sitting in a chair, dip your head in between your knees.  Your head should almost be upside down.

2) Stay there until you start to feel a pounding sensation in your head.  This is due to massive amounts of blood going to your brain.

3) Just when you start to get dizzy and feel really weird, quickly stand up and try to walk in a straight line.  

Apparently what happens at this point is that you get so dizzy and disorientated, you simply pass out.  Wallah!  Your body goes limp like a wet noodle and you find yourself in a perfect state of relaxation.  Of course, you also strike your face against the floor as your body comes crashing down, so perhaps this isn't the best method to use.

Instead, do what I do.  Just lay in bed, clear your mind of any superficial thoughts, and take deep breaths.  With each breath you breath in, imagine it slowly going up through your body.  I do this to activate my chakra centers, but you could easily do this to relax each part of your body.

For example, take a deep breath in and imagine it all concentrating into the area of your legs.  Hold it, and then exhale, feeling the area of your legs relaxing each time.  Do this repeatedly until the area is relaxed and then move onto another body part.

Seem easy?  Well, watch how your mind starts to wander!  It takes some practice but the technique itself is good, because it helps train your visualization, keeping your mind focused while relaxing your body at the same time.

Hmmmm....sounds too mystical to me.  I'm not knocking it or anything, because frankly, I never heard of it.  However, I personally don't see anything that 'mystical' about OBE's.  Granted, before I experienced them and in my early stages of experimentation, I certainly DID think they were mystical.  But now that I've had so many, and after doing my own research, I am seeing them as something less mystical and something more common to anyone who seeks them out.

When people start talking about experiencing the "Tree of Life" and all these other things, part of me wonders if they are either mystifying something in order to make it "not ordinary", or if their mind is just indoctrinated in much the same way as a fundamentally religious person.

Sorry if I seem judgemental.  I'm really not trying to come off that way.  It's just at this stage of my spiritual walk, I think confusing people with mystical and occult terms only discourages those from pursuing exactly what you want them to experience.

Jonas....

I for one didn't have any previous training....just an interest in the paranormal.  I'm not one of those people who you read about which say, "Yes, I knew at a very young age that there was something 'different' about me."  That is, aside from the yellow stains in my underwear.

In fact, I've stood by the statement that if *I* could have an OBE, than ANYONE can do it!  The only prerequisite I had before projecting for the first time was my desire and curiousity.  My first experience happened one night when I went to bed after reading a book on OBE's.  I woke up in the middle of the night, spontaneously, and began separating from my body.

I won't go into details, but let's just say that from that point onwards, I was hooked.  I began to read everything I could get my hands on.  This was five years ago.  Now, I have had what seems like hundreds of these things, and my desire to experience them more and more is even stronger than before.

So just keep reading up on them, asking questions here, and be patient with your progress.  This isn't a race.  I hope to read about your first experience soon!

quote:Originally posted by Frère

Also I was surprised that they were looking just like my real hands... is that a way to recofnise lucid dream from OBE when your hands look real?

In my projection experiences, whenever I have looked at my hands, they have always appeared as real as they are typing this response.  Only when I stare at them do they start to melt.  However, I try not to do that too much.  Not because of any danger, but simply because when they melt, I get a numb feeling where my fingers used to be, and it's kind of trippy!

quote:Originally posted by thechunk05

Cool! Now I have tried to "get up" out of my body when this happens, but when I think about trying, the feeling goes away and I just go to sleep disapointed. What do you suggest I do next?

Chunk, I think you said a key thing here.  You said, "when I think about trying, the feeling goes away."

From my experience, that is the number one killer of OBE experience... When we TRY to make things happen.  We TRY to induce the vibrations.  We TRY to move our astral arms, etc.

At least from my perspective, we can't really DO a whole lot, EXCEPT set the tone for a projection.  What do I mean by this? Imagine pushing a bowling ball up the side of a hill.  It takes YOU, the conscious awake person, a concerted effort to push this ball up the hill.  At first, it may seem like the hill is never ending, and that all you ever do is push.

However, once you get to the top, you find that the bowling ball will roll down the other side on its own.  You don't have to help it.  You don't have to keep pushing.  All you did was bring it to that threshold where it could take over on its own.

See the analogy?  Using me as an example, my waking conscious mind works on relaxing my body, drawing energy through my chakras, and PREPARING myself to have an OBE.  Once you get your mind and body to a certain state, you need to be PASSIVE, let go, and just allow the subconscious to navigate the rest of the way.  If you can do this without breaking consciousness, then you're better than I am!  Usually what happens with me is that I will lose consciousness (either for a split second or for a few hours in sleep) and then SNAP back to an altered state of awareness.  In this altered state, I have an inner sense that tells me I can separate, or phase, into this other "world."

First of all, congratulations on your experience!  It brings back memory of my first one five years ago....and no matter how many I have, I still feel exhiliration when I separate!  Now I will address some of your questions:

quote:Originally posted by Mohamed

I got out a total of 4 times, but I could not stay out, can anyone give me suggestions on how to stay out?

For me, this is always an issue too.  The thing that has helped me prolong my experiences is to REMAIN CALM and RELAX YOUR MIND.  Great, but how do you do this?  What I tend to do is, while separated, take a few deep, relaxing breaths.  Mentally tell yourself that you are not in a hurry, and that with each breath you take, you will feel stronger and more aware.  This usually strengthens the experience and prolongs it for me.

The thing that always kills it is when I go, "Ok, now I am relaxed.  What should I do?  Ooooo, ooooooo, I know!  I know!  I can this, or that, or this, or that......"

And then, I get too excited and lose the experience!

quote:
I have learned that the vibes actually hinder you, not help you!

Most people think the vibrations are essential to separating.  However, 99% of the time, I don't feel them.  I think that people will feel vibrations only if they focus on them....just like most people will only hear the ringing in their ears if they focus.  Otherwise, it goes on unnoticed.

quote:Originally posted by alt0xFF
[brWhat happens when you look in the mirror during A.P.?
I don't know. Get out and take a look for yourself.

From my personal experience, when I've looked in a mirror while projecting, it's pretty much exactly as it is when I'm awake.  Although there are usually some minor differences, like my hair looking different or something along those lines.

quote:Originally posted by jc84corvette

I tried the astral island thing and I imagined it two times so far. Everything is my own visulization! When will that stop and I am actualy there? Im confused...

Just remember that there is an extremely fine line between your imagination and the astral realm.  Imagination is used to bring us to the edge, and our passive desire helps us to cross over.