Messages

Lumaza,
You mentioned to me a short time ago, about what you described as a "trifecta" experience, where you experience the three classic types of an NP experience, which is what this appears to be: The classic etheric OBE ( the physical movement with a misty physical exit), a Phasing aspect (the distinct mental NP movement aspect and overall feel), and a LD aspect (maybe the enhanced surreal effect).  The kite served as a nice awareness boost.

One observation is- Why these seemingly clarifying experiences? What purpose do they serve?

I have had a few of these; a similar one was especially powerful and an important introduction to the NP. In my case, it occurred very early for me, perhaps for a different reason; it's becoming quite apparent to me that similar experiences occur for us at different times to serve different purposes. Perhaps they are repeated at different times in order to reinforce different themes.

Welcome cinnabar!

I deal with 'noisy mind' also. For me, the best OBE times are in the middle of the night or early morning wake-ups, when a high degree of mental/physical relaxation has resulted. This is my ideal time to play with finding the right mental framework to explore. It's not always perfect, nor a guarantee of success, but somewhere in there you may find your opportunity.

You have already had many Non-Physical experiences beyond the OBE and LD you mentioned: Dreams and even daydreams fit into the NP category; simply put, they represent changes in the focus of your consciousness...the key difference is how much 'conscious presence' you can bring to each experience. You can work to increase that presence.

As Nameless pointed out- finding your particular method can be as simple as naturally following your thoughts as you relax. Your inner self can show you the way.

As Lumaza remarked- it is all about Will and Intent. Those words are capitalized for a reason. This fact will become ever more important over the years.

As to 'Stickies', the first Board and the third Board have some very good reads; you should take the time to read through the ones that catch your interest. We are all different and maybe fall somewhere within four or five categories of experience and expectation. Five techniques of a particular type may not resonate with you and be unworkable, whereas five techniques of a very different approach may prove productive for you. No one can decide for you except you. So do some reading; your technique IS here, somewhere, lol.

If your mind is noisy, like mine is, then you need to learn to 'set your Intent' (to remember your dreams, experience an OBE, a new experience, etc) and then simply relax and release control, even if you fall asleep...and see what you wake up remembering. Or, if you want to attempt a more conscious release method, set your alarm for a 4am wake-up and do a Wake, Back To Bed (WBTB) technique.

An over-riding part of this is your expectation: What are you expecting? An etheric type OBE where you literally feel your spirit-self floating up out of your physical body and floating around your house?  That is one type of experience.

Another is coming aware within a dream (LD) and you create your reality from there. You may revert to your physical and then get an etheric exit or you may go in a completely different direction.

You may be laying there, totally relaxed at the edge of sleep at 3 am and get vibrations and lift out, or you may get hypnogogic images, a continuing series of images, and finally 'phase' into them and into a NP environment.

Experienced travelers can experience any of these 'exits' at any various times. They are open to and aware of the various 'physical' sensations that indicate an energetic shift: floating, swaying, swinging, sinking feelings...expansion, contraction...just about any physical/mental sensation you can think of... these are signs of transition; just relax and go with the sensation, maybe with a little reinforced Intention of what you want to happen.

Hope that gives some additional ideas.

Okay, so while I was forming a response, and thoroughly screwing up my quotes, LightBeam chimed in and I missed it.

Thank you LB! I won't even try to break it into quotes because I agree with your whole post! Very insightful!

Bodily functions, daily themes...yes they all enter into the stuff of our dreams. For me, it seems like everything backs up and builds for awhile and then is unleashed like a small tidal wave...fun and exciting but I am left feeling like a huge wave has crashed me onto the beach in a slightly bruising way, lol.

Who's in charge? I agree and well said.

Doors = probabilities and choices. Yes, great metaphors...they are "known unknowns"...

There is a lot to unpack in your post but I find the idea of observing that raw energy of our emotions within the subconscious context, those rare moments of watching "it" create at that level...that is such a cool and personal moment...words quickly fail

Thank you

First response - Uhm, wow! I have always wondered why it is that bathrooms in the Otherwhere are always so dang nasty. It's like the overseers really hate our physical body needs interruptions.

Now that you mention it, I can't remember a clean bathroom/toilet in the NP/Otherwhere, lol. It's like some subtle back-handed insult against our forced human-ness...

Kurt Leland describes a small city with an iridescent stream flowing through it, one in which he can comfortably sink into and allow "the flow" to take him where it will...I get to stand in a gutter with liquid human refuse flowing over my feet in order to get the same realization...what's up with that?!!  Maybe, just maybe he did modify his experiences to be more readable, lol.

Same with the sex response. It's like they enjoy testing the fact that we are spirit-inhabiting human animals that are so easily prone to the sexual response; a great awareness test, but also instant entertainment when we continually fail...

[quoteAs if there is any part of me creating this then I am so far removed from that part and that part is so far removed from me we don't know each other so we are strangers and that makes 'them' them and 'me' me and not us. As for what I do think, I think there is a lot we don't know and we can't assume that 'they' do however much they are in advance of us.]

My thinking, as well...

The "Clue" simulation may not be any more than an awareness-building exercise, the clues or puzzle pieces may not lead anywhere. Then again might be a perfect form that can evolve and build upon itself into something that actually does have a useful solution to some issue such as an eventual Retrieval or something else.

Excellent thoughts! Thank you Nameless!

So I haven't had much in the way of experiences worth reporting this year, so far; my dream recall has been almost nil for the last two months; various reasons for that, allergies and illness for one. This semi-lucid dream happened this morning and was one where I woke up and then re-entered the dream twice, the first time unexpectedly, the second more consciously and directly. It may fit into a more mundane category and not worth even mentioning, except possibly for two reasons: I wonder if I will return to it tonight for unfinished business, and I distinctly identified a PR (Physical Reality) component to it during one of my re-entries...so I thought to share it.

I will probably edit this post one or more times as new details surface.

Did you ever play that board game "Clue"? The game where every player is a guest in a mansion where a murder has occurred? It's what we call a "who done it"? Randomized clues are introduced and you have to put the "murder plot" together and guess the identity of the murderer in order to win. Here in the USA, during my childhood, it was a pretty commonplace game (although I never owned it myself and only played it once, in my twenties I think). There was a movie by the same name in the Seventies, I think, followed by another similar movie- Murder On The Orient Express. Fun stuff and challenging in that it makes you think deductively and inductively.

Well, after this morning's dream, it occurs to me that this is a perfect scenario for a "Simulation" and a teaching experience as Kurt Leland might describe one. And maybe it is an apt metaphor scenario peculiar to me, as I can remember having this type of dream at least six or more times over my life. I simply didn't recognize it for what it was all those times before; now I do.

Maybe some other members will recognize the pattern in their own experiences and this post will prove at least slightly worthwhile.

So, like my Talking to the Hand experience, I think this was structured to challenge me to raise my NP awareness through a series of challenges, maybe not as complex or intense as that one was, but still the same goal. The question occurs to me- Who set this up? Me or someone else? My subconscious alone, my supposed higher self (whatever that may be)? Or me in cooperation with someone else?
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It was probably 6am and the last REM period and likely the last dream that this started: I don't remember the beginning (which I have found is sort of normal). My first hint of awareness was being in a large fairly-well appointed living room with 10-12 other people. There was no immediate instruction as to what was going on or what we were supposed to do...people just went in various directions, checking rooms, disappearing through doors, some returning, others not. I had no idea and just studied the mixture of people and the confusing array of furniture and interior fixtures: odd pictures with bizarre themes, toys on the floor, a few strange animals wandering about. Very odd stuff and confusing. I did notice one centrally-placed door that more than one person went into and shortly exited from. (all stuff to challenge my awareness with either confusion or realization, I guess)

The scene shifted slightly and I found myself looking at what appeared to be a door leading to the basement, so I went down. There I found a rather primitive and unclean bathroom and realized that I needed to pee (the thought also occurred to me that I was dreaming and had never before peed in a dream). I walked into the bathroom and it was plainly nasty, almost medieval...there was a five foot tall metal barrel enclosure that I would have to spin around in order to have access to the urinal itself. That was just too nasty, but then I looked down at the drain tube underneath it and realized it was dumping directly into a gutter channel carved into the floor and I was already standing in it. YUCK! I almost self-ejected from the dream at that point, but then I realized something. The water was flowing clear. I stepped back and went ahead and urinated in the gutter, realizing that this was a metaphor and message for "going with the flow". (I know, that's a pretty tortured subconscious...but I take ownership of it! It's mine and I'm sticking with it!)

At that point, I woke up into PR and really did have to take a pee. So I did that, grabbed a swish of fresh water and returned to bed. As I lay there, drifting off to sleep again, I wasn't thinking about the dream...I was simply fantasizing about something much more enjoyable. I was still quite awake when it happened...

It felt like a physical hand gently, but firmly slapped me in the center of my back, no mistaking it. I was instantly reminded of the Carlos Castaneda stories of how his mentor Don Juan could "see" Carlos' energy "egg" body and know where the point of his attention was "fixed", and with a directed slap or push, could re-orient Carlos' point of attention and transfer his awareness into the NP. I don't know; all I can say is that this is what happened. I was back in the previous dream.

I was back in the main living room, with all the people assembled. A tall, skinny blonde approached me; she was somewhat attractive and a bit of the sexual urge hit me, but there was also a certain mistrust, so I begged off and she left. Then a cuter brunette approached and we settled on the couch to talk. Then the blonde poked her head in from my left saying, "So you're dumping me for her?" I begged off again, this time from both of them and the scene shifted once again. This time, I was in the living room alone and a guy looking like the British actor Edward Mulhare appeared and motioned for me to follow him. I lost track of him as he maneuvered through a series of doors which led outside the mansion. (I think that with the sex tests and the Ed Mulhare recognition, my awareness was continuing to increase)

Outside, I lost a bit of continuity, maybe there was another shift. I found myself lying down as if amongst a group of dead people. A guy came running out of the mansion, obviously trying to escape. He came upon my area and picked up a heavy assault rifle (like a SAW) and I realized he was going to shoot us. Looking back towards the mansion, I could see good old Mulhare and some others desperately waving at us to go along with the play-acting, the subterfuge. So I lay there while this guy fired several rounds into each of us and then ran off. (now there have been times where I have felt the shots ripping into me and died, but this wasn't one of them)

So the poor guy runs off and they good-naturedly and all in good fun, fire a few rounds over his head, to keep him moving. And it occurs to me that this poor bastard has entirely bought into the simulation and is running for his life...and good lord, I've probably been in his place before, lol. And the crew is all having quite the good time and fun with it!

Scene shift again- I am back alone in the mansion living room. There is a colony of small hermit crabs scuttling about, an organ grinders monkey scampers off, I am just a bit confused...there is still that central door that I haven't been through. So I go through the door. I walk into the room. It is maybe six-sided, with some bizarre, changing artwork on the wall, plenty of stuff to distract. Two guys to my right start chattering in thick, exaggerated European accents, I can't understand what they are saying (I realize that maybe I'm not supposed to; the lesson lies elsewhere). I start to look at the wall hangings but the two guys insist on my attention. I have a serious moment of clarity as I look at them and realize that they are like holographic projections, designed to perform the same scene for whomever walks through the door; they are part of the "Clue" game, so for the next several seconds, I am fascinated with studying them. Then one guy disappears (that kicks my awareness up another notch) and I distinctly remember what the second guy says as he backs up to a huge picture frame. He says, " Be careful of what you say, because if I get the heebie-jeebies, I might just do this!" And with that, he does a backward somersault and fades into the picture frame.

I watch that and think, "Well crap, that's just Phasing and I can do that..." and I think my awareness hit peak.

And I wake up. Here. PR. Or at least I think...lol

Blossom-

I will share my perspective on your LD nightmare and please keep in mind that is just that, my perspective colored by my biases and experience. You are free to accept it, consider it or reject it outright. Maybe sharing a dream like this with someone who knows you well and you can trust, maybe that can give some deeper clues to the psychological nuances.

I don't see this as a dark entity of some sort having decided to intrude upon your life. To me this is pretty clearly your subconscious trying to communicate a fairly serious issue that is quite symbolically, circling you and you get the feeling it is closing in. It possibly represents an issue you are avoiding dealing with. The fact that the entity has 'no face' is a fairly common image when we are refusing to literally 'put a face on the issue we are avoiding'; I've had the 'no face' dream myself and read of it with others.

If you can't immediately answer what the issue may be, then maybe putting it into the form of a question for a meditational reverie may bring forth an answer. Or write the question on a piece of paper, tuck it under your pillow and literally sleep on it, and maybe you can receive a clarifying dream.

I've had a few of these kinds of dreams, especially over the last few years. One was actually very difficult for me. These dreams are intense experiences that demand our attention, so the fact that you noticed it and wrote about it, tells me that it is of significance for you.

To be completely honest, I don't always figure out the answers to my own dreams of this nature; but then again, maybe that's not always necessary; maybe sometimes the dream's purpose is to just bump us ahead on a subliminal level, a subconscious level.

So put some thought into it, but don't become obsessed with it or beat yourself up over it. I think that by the simple fact that we choose to explore aspects of the NP, issues such as these will uncover from time to time; it is part of the territory and part of our development as we progress.

I hope that gives some useful ideas.

I vaguely remember this reference. I read through much of the Seth Material some 40 years ago; very good but very heady, difficult, intellectual stuff.

Did either of you guys find anything of value in declaring this "intention"? And what may have resulted?

I will admit that I suffer the same weakness as many do, and a desire for a quick answer, a bit of a short-cut to the truth, wherever it may be found.

The simple truth is that it requires work...and a lot of that. That is what I have found.

In my experience, the "Who to and why..." doesn't necessarily matter...it's simply going through the process and the unfolding awareness that results, is what is being asked of me...that is the learning...it is confusing for me and usually takes weeks and months to put any workable answer together, and even that can change over time.

So, in order to dig a bit deeper, I will try and dip a toe in the water and swirl the colors around, hoping a snapping turtle doesn't remove my toe for me...

In your experience, you relate the idea that two beings or aspects may be operating within your awareness. Your description makes me think of a Richard Sutphen book I read some thirty years ago which introduced me to a variety of, and more complicated possibilities of just what the "soul" may be. The Rita's World books that I read last year added to this thought-train.

Early in my life I figured that I was one singular soul, reincarnating through a linear series of lives, with a theory of Karma either thrown in or not. Then the idea of non-linear lifetimes was introduced, even parallel existences; okay, I incorporated that. Then came the idea of an over-arching Oversoul that "my" soul was somehow a part of. That became a bit problematic since I was already dealing with the issue of my present lifetime Ego which really resisted the idea of it's dissolution at death ; now I had to contend with the idea of the possible sublimation of my idea beyond the Ego, that of my idea of my Soul being somehow subsumed within a greater Oversoul or a "greater community" of some sort. My actual place within the Multiverse appeared to begin fading at the edges...

Now comes the DeMarco/Rita's World perspective that posits the idea that we are all not souls but actually little experimental combinations of "splinters" of previous successful incarnations, additive personalities and new attempts to complement the experience of the Soul/OverSoul. If we are successful, if we become fully defined/actualized/realized...then we continue, but always as part of a recognized greater being, so to speak. If not, if we utterly fail...then our "splinter" material dissolves back into the soup. The "splinters" are what give us these half remembrances of previous lives, because that is exactly what they are taken from, for whatever the reason they were chosen. The memories are not actually ours, except in an indirect way, but we sometimes tap into them. Genetics also ties into this.

At the same time, the Soul/OverSoul is experiencing multiple, maybe hundreds of lifetimes and with our individual psychic development we can tune into one or more of these either accidentally or by practice. Apparently it seems to be part of our development, as in this case with Nameless. Or maybe, it is an indication that you have actualized and are now at the next level, experiencing from an additional level, slowly beginning to understand how it is experienced from a minor perspective of the Soul/OverSoul level...? (Don't let that go to your head. Lol)

Personally, I have a slight issue with understanding the limits of my personal "being-ness". I do accept that all of Physical Life adheres to a certain framework and hierarchy- Orders and Phyla and Species, etcetera. It makes perfect sense that the Multiverse and the Non-Physical operate similarly, along with the concept that we are all somehow parts of a higher being (God/Source, eventually), and that may include many degrees and orders.

I guess the fear is loss of identity somewhere within it all. It's funny in that when I am in the Void, I have no problem with letting go and dissolving into nothingness; it is so relaxing and easy(I would take an hour of that over a two week vacation, lol).

You wanted thoughts, so there are some...

You didn't make a mess of those explanations...you explained them just fine. I know how, when I go to type out an experience, it is so understandable in my mind, and yet I freeze up over the keyboard, not knowing how to even begin, the language just isn't capable...been there many times.

Okay, so let's drill down on a point of interest that I have...You state that you became aware of her presence while you were awake? I find that just slightly amazing...please describe that...How did you become aware of her presence? Did your memory somehow alert you to who she was? What did you think and what did you feel? Not to your degree, but I have slightly felt the mental presence of others-you, Szaxx, Lumaza, Lightbeam and some "others"...very faint, but just enough to make me think...

I wonder that the "higher one" isn't the Oversoul in your context...just an idea maybe. A Higher Self that shares the two of you? Is the Ebony one a previous/alternate/parallel lifetime...a "splinter"?

I have fully given up on the idea that we are to figure all of this out, in this lifetime. Maybe we are continuously challenged to just take it as far as we can. What fun!

EV

I am coming to the point of calling it "My Seemingly Endless Variety of Experiences" Journal...the last few years, I have practically given up on the idea of categorizing this stuff in any way...any time I think that I have, then even newer experiences are introduced.  It seems to be equal parts of me having certain realizations and then, accordingly, new experiences or memories are introduced or emphasized.

Nameless, what you describe strikes me as an obvious "parallel life" kind of experience; I have nothing equivalent to compare (the closest being my Fieldtrip), your description being so good that only some of Lumaza's experiences come to mind. Late last year, along with an experience I shared with you, I also had a brief, snapshot memory/experience of an off-world life I shared with Lumaza but it was nothing more than that, very brief, maybe five seconds. I wonder that my experience wasn't triggered because I had recently finished the second book in the Frank DeMarco "Rita's World" series that expanded my thinking on past lives, parallel lives and a more complex understanding of how souls and oversouls are possibly composed and existing.

So, of course, a few questions-

You've had this experience how many times and how far back?

You say she has been "in your head"...care to elaborate? How did you notice her presence and what thoughts did you take away from it? Why do you think she was there?

Thank you for digging in and sharing at this deep a level. Luv

Glad to hear from you again T-Man!

It is interesting how often dinosaur themes show up in our experiences. I had many fearful ones as a child, which is probably understandable ( a great Jungian kind of uncontrollable force ) but it is still very interesting even as an occasional adult theme in exploring the NP.

The fact that you are noticing how your LDs are changing is a good recognition of your development; becoming the dinosaur is an intriguing variation. Transitions like these are important in our NP education; I can't necessarily explain why in your specific case, just noticing their prominence points to a personal message that should reveal itself to you, maybe with some meditation or reverie practice.

silverlight wrote-

I would appreciate some advice on how to proceed. I feel that I just need to keep doing what I'm doing until I learn to suppress the involuntary movement of my eyes.
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I think that you just answered your own question there. It does sound like you are close to making a transition.

The involuntary eye movement is one of the final distractions that can trip you up for awhile, another stage where you again realize the importance of the mental and emotional control necessary. It happens to almost everybody, and yes, I think that Frank Kepple did mention it in his treatise.

One of the keys to unlocking this distraction is, as you wrote, to maintain an air of curiosity, but there is also the requirement to remain somewhat 'detached', not just emotionally but also in a mental sense...and that is a word that comes close to describing what is needed but is still somehow incomplete. I think that it may have to do with the intensity of your focus and learning how to modulate it, a very subtle thing as you are discovering. The scene/picture/visualization strengthens and comes into clarity by itself, by your 'allowing' it, and this can initially catch you by surprise and cause you to 'tighten' your focus thereby involuntarily engaging your physical eyes. Once you clear the 'physical eye engagement' hurdle, you still risk a fail by focusing too much, too soon. You have to let the scene completely develop beyond even your current expectations, to a point where you feel 'drawn' into the scene; you will likely feel a slight to moderate 'pull' or attractive force; and then you can 'step' into it. So, in other words, you look at it, but you don't look at it intensely, you have to be gentle with that intensity and find the 'sweet spot', like focusing a telescope, a pair of binoculars or better yet, learning how to see the image in one of those computer-generated Magic Art pictures.

And of course, not letting any emotion like fear or excitement to intrude. Easy, right? Lol

You are doing fine and keep in mind this is all good and necessary mental conditioning and it apparently doesn't end anytime soon...aaahh this is truly the joy and mystery of learning in the NP!

Hope that helps and gives some further ideas.

EV

Agreed with the excellent comments and perspective.

An additional idea is one that I have come across reading many APer's retrieval posts, and that is the idea that upon reflection they have considered the possibility that they may, in fact, be retrieving aspects of themselves in previous/other/alternate lives...small parts, lost, hurt children, emotionally injured parts...aspects. This idea continues the conversation of the concept of just what a "soul" actually may be: Not just me, not just you...but an entity far greater and expansive/inclusive than just our singular experience. We are not the "complete" being, but only a part, a collection of genetics and potentials...I am intrigued by that idea and also a bit discomforted by it...

But isn't the concept of being part of the "Universal Whole" , the Source...doesn't that possibly imply that we as individuals are part of a greater being, like cells in a body? It seriously impacts my idea of individuality in the sense that my independence is challenged. It is a paradox, a conflict. I want to belong and yet I also want my individuality.

Maybe, somehow, enlightenment brings both.

The "aspects" that we are retrieving are various, small, lost parts of our different "selves" that have become adrift in this vast realm of consciousness. They are needed for completion, for closure.  It is a collection effort, and in that effort is included the learning and "guidance" that is excellently referenced in a parallel thread.

Maybe there are two lines of thought operating here.

Before Copernicus and Keppler, the Geocentric Model held sway. That put Earth at the center of the Universe. The moon was in its' particular sphere/orbit; the planets and sun in their own sphere; it moved outward from there including along spiritual, Non-Physical lines, the Heavens and Hells...etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocentric_model

The concept may have a basis in Reality, or maybe not. It can easily be regarded as a human's need to categorize/interpret a NP concept in some relatable spatial kind of understanding. That is expected and acceptable; many notable early thinkers saw it that way and that should not be immediately discounted by the fact that later discoveries disproved at least the Physical aspect. Monroe, in his books, often described the Physical and Non Physical as a series of concentric spheres. Again this may have been simply his pre-conceived expectations or cultural conditioning; kind of a default interpretation many of us could expect to encounter. It doesn't really matter; we naturally need some kind of way to interpret these things, so one is just as likely good as another so long as we keep in mind that these are all provisional interpretations.

From my own experience, this reads like subconscious hypnogogia that has increased to the degree of possibly becoming a repeating thoughtform. It's not real per se, but it might as well be since it has become a consistently recurring theme and has to be dealt with in some manner. I think you are right in that it involves dealing with personal subconscious fears and similar issues; we all have them, and this is an easy playground where they can show up and distract us. It sounds like you are dealing with them appropriately.

For me, these issues almost always show themselves differently, each time; I haven't seen the consistency you have, so possibly, something else may be occurring, but I don't think it is an issue to be too concerned about.

If this is all happening while you are still "in body" or within close proximity to your physical body, then the random chaos of hypnogogic "noise" is all I would attribute it to. It is admittedly a freaky phenomenon, but just a local effect. It sounds like you already have it handled pretty well. And you are exactly right about pre-conceived ideas and front-loading.

This reads as fairly normal, given the description; for some the first few outings are very brief "snapshots" literally, of just a second or 3, then you're back in the Physical. And, as in this case, one can "appear" back at home rather than the current PR environment. This may have to do with a subconscious safety mechanism that has you AP to a known, safe location before attempting to move elsewhere. I have read similar descriptions many times.

The next step is to think about how stable was your mental state during the experience? Over-excitement will kick you out very quickly and frankly, this is hard to avoid the first several times. So you must pay close attention to your mindset in these experiences. A calm, detached, observing kind of attitude needs to be learned- that will serve to help extend the experience. Also, if you have what feels like hands, then reach out and grab hold of an object: a wall, a door, a railing, a chair...this action can help to "ground" you in the scene. Also, some mental commands work for some people- reminding yourself that you are OOB; asking for increased clarity, asking to see more. If you feel like you are in some human-like form, some find that spinning in place for a few whirls can stabilize them quite well.

Everyone is slightly different in how effective these techniques can be, and what works in one experience may not work as effectively the next time, so it teaches us to stay open to possibilities and a new kind of flexible mindset.

Yeah, the Catholic hierarchy is rapidly backtracking from that interesting statement.

I tend to agree that these "consciousness advancements", as much as I have anticipated them, haven't really materialized in the way I expected...so, I am generally in agreement with Nameless; they may be occurring in smaller, less obvious ways. I am, admittedly, probably less sensitive to these things than some others but I did notice back around 2006 the partial consciousness shutdown and "upgrade" that occurred over a 3 day period that was described in one of Dolores Cannon's books. I don't pretend to be exact on these events, only those confirming with my own experience; some you sense, some you don't; the truth of the timing to these things may prove to be much more a variable/individual thing than I can currently understand or describe.

That may only be available to moderators to change their own names. Xanth as Admin may be the only one who can change another members' username. Not exactly sure on this, just trying to remember past reports.

Regarding hands through walls experience, I guess what I wanted to understand was, why that particular act stood out as very strange when the biggest act of projecting itself was deemed so normal...  I suppose that is "my" experience and couldn't expect another person to comment...  maybe, I was hoping to hear that someone also experienced the same...? What I took away is that projecting is something I should be able to do very easily.  And, PR fears, objections and beliefs can and do carry over to dream/astral realms as well.  However, knowing this and putting it in practice are two different things.  In actual AP (like I mentioned before), body tensing and other signals consumed my thoughts.  The need to adjust and accommodate for these events in future attempts is apparent.  All I can say is that there is a lot of work ahead.

I think your natural instinct is correct here: You realized several things, one being the naturalness of the OBE exit, the PR distinction of hands through a wall, that PR beliefs do, in fact, carry over into the NP and have an effect (if you allow it) and that your PR body is just a thought away and can be distracting.

A couple comments about Focus 10: I will plainly admit that I am no expert on F10. I used the Monroe tapes and CDs for many hours and could never get deep enough. I only discovered F10 as a result of going from the NP BACK to a Focus 10...and was I amazed! There I was, completely aware within my skull! and realizing that my PR body was completely asleep and snoring! At first I thought I had to stay quiet and kind of tip-toe around inside my head. Within a minute I had realized that I could scream at the top of my NP lungs...and not wake myself up! It was so cool! This was F10 I realized. or at least the extreme form of it; there may obviously be degrees to it.

Anyway, my point is that if you are in what you think is F10 and you are still pulled back by PR issues (breathing, heartrate, etc.), then you still need to go deeper. And honestly, you may have to move deeper only gradually, so don't fret about it, you will get better with practice. Personally, I get my best results with the WBTB technique. But, like most any exercise program, it is all good, so I would recommend that you keep doing a mixture of what you are currently doing. I had the "falling asleep" and "click-outs" as well...in retrospect, I think those also serve a teaching purpose.

Also- IIRC, the Monroe Hemi-Sync signal is negated by noise-cancelling headphones...just sayin'.

That irritated me, 'cuz I laid out like $400 for those Bose suckers...

mindscreen said- "I find it somewhat difficult to know whether particular content of a dream is based on what I am reading/experiencing in PR or if it is "genuine" lesson so-to-speak.  For example, a variant dream of a meeting that took place in PR.  Wouldn't that be just my mind spinning itself over the event/details and a continuation in the dream?  As you said, anything can be a lesson if we look through those lens.  Sometimes, finding what to learn is a difficult task indeed and it may be missed altogether."

This is generally what we refer to as "front-loading" an experience, or carrying a pre-conceived expectation into an experience. It can be a kind of mistake, but it could also be a lesson unto itself, if not for just that reason alone, or maybe others. No NP experience should be discarded without some consideration; lessons may be found weeks or months later. That's also not to say to get lost in over-analyzing everything, just stay open. Sometimes a dream IS just a dream...sometimes it's just a form of house-cleaning.

This is also a really good reason to write this stuff in a journal as soon as possible. If it doesn't make immediate sense then fine, record it in your journal and then let it percolate for a few weeks; you may find yourself digging back into it with deeper insights. My "Fieldtrip" experience occurred as a deeply buried dream/experience that I barely scribbled a paragraph on, back in 2011. Late in 2013, I felt the need to lay down and meditate on the scant memory of it and a torrent of new memory gushed forth, what I realized was what Monroe described as a ROTE or maybe it was a download of sorts.

Speaking only from my own perspective, yes you can experience vibrations from within a dream.  It was a very unexpected and startling event, and also unmistakable. At the time, it also seemed to be an obvious demonstration of another form of dual awareness: In one context, I was still wrapped within a dream scenario; at the same time I was also aware that my sleeping body was experiencing vibrations and possibly I could manage to maneuver an exit within the whole mess...which I failed...lol. This has happened more than once...it occurs to me that this is just one more technique to be learned...it also teaches something about NP awareness...

For Rconrad, I suggest that it is an experience to be filed away for a later date, something to be better understood at some later time. This also speaks to some of his experiences being a bit ahead of his understanding; a good thing, but a frustrating thing.

Some of us are slightly behind the wave, others with the wave, some just ahead of the wave. It's all good...we all still end up crashed on the beach, slightly bruised and sore for the experience. Then we pick ourselves up and trudge back into the surf to do it all over again.
What fun!

Welcome to the Pulse mindscreen! I hope that you will find the information and advice that helps you most.

Let me start my response by remarking that your description of your initial OBE attempts is such an excellent description of many peoples' early efforts that it almost requires no modifications to be made into a more permanent topic or description of what to expect. I have read, over many years, multiple early experiences by many different people, and this one, yours, is just simply SO well described, that I have little to add to it other than commentary. Excellently written!

If this is not just a recitation of what you have read from others; if this is actually your individual experience, then I will commend you, not only on your written expression of it, but your immediate and obviously clear understanding of what is occurring. If this is the case, then nicely done! And thank you for your representation of it.

In a manner of quick summary, I will say this: Everything you describe is quite normal. The process can unfold this seemingly slowly and step-by-step...it did for me and it has for the majority of others as I have read. You are actually hitting every step one by one after another...and there are certain various tactile, and energetic and, ultimately 'conscious', realizations to be made as we proceed step-by-step...and some of these you have already described. Don't become frustrated, just keep pushing along. This is kind of like trudging through 3 feet of snow for 2 hundred yards or even a mile. This is one portion of the early work of Non-Physical awareness. There are multitudes of tests and learning taking place here; you may recognize some of it as you go along, the rest only later.

To attempt to answer a few questions-

I think KG's advice is right- your exit signal can change from vibrations to the siren sound; just remain open to these possibilities. The rule seems to be to just follow whatever sensation is presented; this is also a form of training.

Training Zone- It is difficult to tell just where it starts or ends. So just treat it all as a form of training, at least for now. Regardless, if you pay attention, the lessons are everywhere; it's part of the beauty of it all.

Dream 1 and 2- I have seen this many times and even experienced it myself. I think these are 'pretend' run-throughs of the OBE within our personal dream context; it is as if we are trying out the concept within the safe environment of our personal dreamspace. It is also a subtle form of asking permission of our sub/inner/higher self to undertake this OBE activity. In your case, in Dream 2, I think you may have actually engaged the OBE...it is that subtle of a thing, you may have or may not have, that decision/experience is up to you.

Putting hands through walls or not...in time you will put these experiences into a better context. Whether you did or did not doesn't necessarily really matter...the key to ANY experience, Physical or Non-Physical, is did you learn something from it? Did you take away something of value?

Final advice- Don't change a thing, you are doing great! Add an affirmation to explore the next best concept you need to learn, some Intent to explore and learn, maybe a specific thing you want to know about.

Keep doing what you are doing! Be happy and explore! Have fun!

EV

That is an intriguing thought LovelyMusic! I think I am following what you are saying.

In Theosophy, for instance, the Etheric body is not technically recognized as its own Energy body, but rather a close adjunct to the Physical body. As you point out, this close interface with the Physical may be the reason for the RTZ anomalies that appear- as the Physical is created, the Etheric 'filter' is possibly catching some of these elements 'out of order', so to speak? It is a form of perceptual distortion. This seems to be an issue particular to the Etheric/RTZ.

You are welcome! Yeah, 56 here.

The website is divided into 14 Boards or areas of discussion. At the top of each Board are dark blue highlighted Threads (Stickies) that were found to be worth keeping at the top of each Board's first page. You will find various techniques and interesting conceptual discussions here. Recommended reading!

Vibrations- Monroe's first book gives a god-awfully confusing technique for raising them but I did manage to do it twice, and the vibes were so rough and 'out of tune' that I thought every atom in my body was going to break apart! Scared the crap out of me! But also proved that my suspicions about PR might be on to something, that it wasn't necessarily what it appeared to be. After that, for me at least, the vibes only came sporadically, usually in the middle of the night and sometimes I could take advantage of them, raising the pitch until I could float out, and sometimes not. Over the last several years, I will notice them 3 or 4 times a year. Sometimes they are strong enough to work with and other times they are so soft as to be just an acknowledging warmth, like an old friend saying hello in passing.

My exit technique has always been somewhat dependent on what circumstances I am in; what if any, exit signs or symptoms are available. If I have bed spins or mind-swaying or floaty feelings, I will attempt an etheric exit. If I am experiencing Hypnogogia, I will follow that sequence into a visualization and a Phasing exit. If it's early morning and I am still on the verge of sleep and I notice colors behind my closed eyes then I will 'passively observe' them and look/feel for a portal exit. For most of the last 2 years, I have simply become aware within Lucid Dreams and followed the course of whatever activity was being presented. I am not one who can come home and relax deeply enough into trance to get to an exit point; my mind has always been difficult to shut down; takes me nearly two hours to fall asleep, then I wake up at the slightest non-ordinary sound.

As far as relating to people about this, there just are not that many of us. That makes this Forum so valuable in what we all can learn and share!

Glad to have you here!
EV

OBE versus Phasing-

This is where communication of these NP experiences invariably bogs down within Physics, religion, Mysticism, schools of thought, labels and personal interpretation. I suggest being receptive to it all provisionally, but then use what resonates with you personally and move on from there until new evidence/experience teaches you otherwise. This is all part of the fun and is thrown in at no charge, lol.

If you pursue this Art, you will likely find that many differing environments are available at various times. Some of us move through these as if in a progression of stages, from denser environments (the RTZ/Etheric) into less dense/lighter environments (Dream/Lucid Dream/Astral/Mental+). Some people like to categorize these environments, some just prefer to use the all-encompassing term Non-Physical. I do a little of both.

As I have said elsewhere, most people first envision the concept of the OBE as going into deep relaxation/trance/near sleep and feeling their spirit/dream body literally float/fall/roll out of the Physical body and into their room and go floating about the world. And indeed, this is what kind of happens in the 'classic OBE'. The first mistaken assumption we take with us is that we are still in the Physical Reality; but we are not. Just what it is, is up for discussion. This new environment often does appear to have similarities to our bedroom or house or back yard, but there are obvious differences: Doors, windows, furniture and other things can be in their usual locations, or they may not be. The atmosphere is different, as well: for me, it is like in-between normal air-breathing PR and being under water scuba diving. With this type OBE, most peoples' awareness is limited within a certain PR-geographical proximity of their Physical body- their bedroom, their house...some can go as far as the neighborhood. Others have reported longer 'RTZ' travels, but the times I have done this, I have definitely noticed both an environmental shift and an awareness shift. Most times when I attempt a distant travel, I simply lose awareness and wake up. Does this mean that I am failing to shift into the necessary 'energy body' to move into a 'higher' plane? Or maybe I just lacked sufficient 'energy' to continue the journey within the same plane? Does this imply other planes of existence/experience?

Certain pagan and Indian religions posit the simpler concept of a Physical body and a Dreaming or Spirit Travelling body.

Hinduism, Buddhism and several esoteric schools of thought posit the concept of multiple Energy bodies- The Physical, Etheric, Astral, Mental, Causal, Buddhic...various names, various arrangements... the idea being that in order to achieve advancement and 'enlightenment', we need to progressively consciously activate and operate from within each energy body. Or something like that...
Within most of these schools of thought, the 'classic' RTZ OBE is one that is experienced within the Etheric energy body; your dreams are experienced within the Astral body and eventually move into higher experiences within the Mental and Causal bodies. This may help to explain some of the 'point-of-consciousness' and 'formless' experiences some of us have had.

Following this line of thought, the term 'Phasing' likely refers to a transition into the Astral, Mental or a higher body. (And let me offer a caveat here: the terms lower/higher do not necessarily connote better or worse than, just simply different; this is part of the 'label trap'. What I have read and what I have experienced have shown me that our consciousness jumps around from body to body, depending on the level of lesson/teaching we need. I can have a Mental event one night and the next be stumbling around in the RTZ).

Hope that helps some.

Let me attempt a partial answer with a reply to an earlier poster. Even the subject of a persons' initial obe exits is the stuff of confusion and debate; mostly because it can occur several ways and each is colored by our initial interpretations. I really have mean't to expand on this and make a sticky of it, lol.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_members_introductions/hello_from_switzerland-t45993.0.html

With regard to your 'partial exits' and still being stuck within a certain bodypart, I agree with Nameless and will add that this is a fairly normal occurrence early on. You may find that it is easily resolved by trying a nightly affirmation that both 'sets your Intent' and gives yourself permission. Something like- "I give myself permission to have an out-of-body-experience. I want this and know that I am entirely safe and protected."