Messages

quote:Originally posted by Logic

do you mean mind awake and body asleep? []
My biggest problem with this is moving or getting itchy, I've never had the dry mouth problem before though, but may I suggest drinking a good ammount of water before practicing this, or perhaps using vicks vapor rub? Also, just curious, how do you manage to deal with the insane itching sensations?

When I have "insane itching sensations," do you know what I do?  I scratch them!  

I think many of us think, "Ok, I've been laying here relaxing for X-amount of minutes, and now I have this itch.  But I can't move or else it will 'break' the mind awake/body asleep state that I am in."

I got news for you.  If you're aware of an itch, you mind as well scratch it....because A) your body is not asleep, and B) it will only further distract you from relaxing your mind.

So don't be afraid to just scratch that itch, or adjust your body, or move to a different position when you're trying to project.  It's not like you go all the way back to square one.  Your body remembers its last state of relaxation and slides right back to where it was before after you move.  If this wasn't the case, then everytime you roll over in your sleep, you would be wide awake and have to start getting tired all over again!

Hey there,

Just remember, sometimes you can only do so much before having to let go and letting your subconscious do the rest.

You see, our ego in our everyday waking life thinks it can do everything on it's own.  We think that if we follow steps one, two, and three, then the desired result should happen.  This isn't always the case when we're dealing with subjective experiences.

So my suggestion would be to continue what you're doing (energy work, relaxation techniques, etc), but also realize that at some point, you need to trust the natural body's process of transistioning over to an altered state of consciousness.  

As an example, get back to the stage where you feel these energy rushes going through your body.  Then, just start relaxing your MIND as well as your body.  Too many people relax their body and their MIND is all wound up, wondering "What happens next?" and "Why don't I feel any vibrations?"

A relaxed mind is more conducive to an OBE than a relaxed body.

I think you pose a good question.  While I (and I think most of us here) have experienced dry spells, I always attributed mine to being a "focus" issue.  

For example, most recent long dry spell seemed to be because of my busy lifestyle, planning my wedding, and dealing with problems on my website.  However, now that the website is back to normal, and I'm a married guy, I am having a LOT more success with my projections.  I just had two consecutive OBE's during the last two nights, so I'm off to a good start!

To answer your question though, I think desire has an extrememly important role in being successful with astral projection. For many people,  myself included, it's very difficult to lay down and immedietely project.  Usually there is some loss of consciousness before your awareness snaps you back and you find yourself phasing/exiting your body.  This loss of consciousness could span many hours, or just a couple of seconds.  However, without a strong desire to project, your mind would wander and you would forget WHY you wanted to project.  You would simply drift off into unconsciousness.

At least, this is my experience with desire as it relates to OBE's.  That's not to say that simply "wanting" one to happen is enough to get yourself out of the body.  Hell, if that were the case, every newbie who is learning about the subject would not have a hard time experiencing one.  I think the key is a strong desire, coupled with a open mind and a patient attitude.  Those three build a strong foundation for success.

Welcome to the group.  You'll feel right at home here.  No matter who you are or what you're background, we're all here to learn.  Hell, I've been having OBE's for the last 5 years and even I don't know who Sandalphon is (or Malkuth for that matter).

I try not to confuse religion with spirituality.....but Tisha brings up a good point.  I think it's rather ironic that Christianity (to use this as an example) wants you to be open-minded (as Allanon said, we should "trust the rope"), and yet, once you trust it, you are chastised for being open-minded towards anything else.

Before I became a born again Christian, I was open-minded, seeking for a deeper spiritual meaning in my life.  At 18, I found Christianity, was baptised in the name of Jesus, and filled with the Holy Ghost (yes, speaking in tongues and everything).

I devouted YEARS to reading and studying the Bible as God's living Word.  My hunger to grow as a spiritual being, however, started to get squashed by the RELIGION of Christianity.  Now it seemed that being open-minded as a Christian was NOT something that I was to pursue.  I had to close my mind to all "worldly influences" and any spiritual advice or experiences coming from the world were (I was TOLD) influenced by none other than Satan himself.  

Again, it's rather ironic that the same open-mindedness we are instructed to have to trust in Jesus is the exact same open-mindedness we are told to supress once we find Him.

I am not passing judgement on anyone's religion or personal beliefs.  However, as an observer, I tend to see the hypocrisies of people's doctrine when they try and "convert the converted."

Grrrrr.....I find things like this so hard to put in words sometimes, so I shall creep back into my corner.

quote:Originally posted by T_Kman0610
i will go with your advice, thanx, but what if they find me dozed off and they try to wake me but cant get me awake? theyll be furious!

I guaruntee you that if you doze off and happen to be having an out of body experience, something as simple as a fly buzzing around your head will instantly snap you back into your body.  Nevermind two grown ups shaking you, trying to wake you up!

Do what I did in your situation: don't tell them anything!  Just secretly work on relaxing, projecting, etc.  What your parents don't know won't hurt them.

I suppose that in order to prove that an OBE is not a dream, you would also have to prove that what we call 'real life' is not a dream either.

After all, what is real life anyway?  What makes your waking consciousness any more 'real' than your astral one?  Simply because you can knock on the same piece of wood repeatedly and your hand stops on the surface?  Does this tell you that you're awake, because your hand doesn't pass through a solid object?  We reproduce things in our everyday life, and we substitute this consistency for what is "real."

However, in my mind, everything I EXPERIENCE is real.  For instance, when I am astral travelling, the experience is more real and clearer to me than I am when I am awake.  My senses are sharper, my mind is more alert, etc.  It is every bit as "real" to me as it is to respond to your message right now.

So is the simple fact that I can't bring a part of it back to show people make the experience any less real?  I don't believe so.  

The problem is trying to reproduce something over and over and over again when you're in an environment that is highly reactive to thoughts and emotions.  About the only thing I have reproduced when astral are astral things......I have reproduced the feelings and sensations when flying, when passing through walls, when breathing the air, etc.  I have not, however, gave a second thought when I'm out to look at a card, or try to prove that the experience is "real" because at that very moment, I am completely and positively aware that it's 100% real.  There is no doubt in my mind.

It's only when you come back (and especially if you drift off into a dream) that you start to second guess all that happened.  All you're left with is the MEMORY of the experience, and this can seem very dreamlike if you don't recall the details of what happened.

quote:Originally posted by Birm

Hi Jeff,
Actually i want to answer your question myself. Because I am a Muslim, too. I actually started to wander about AP and OBE when i was reading Our Holy Book Quran. I dont want to get in a religous conversation over here. But In the book i have found a few clues about the astral cord, having an astral body... The book also says clearly that everybody is projecting when they sleep at night.

But as i said i dont want a religious discussion over here. So i just mentioned these in order to answer your question and exchange knowledge.

Birm.....thanks for the response.  You know, one could argue (and rightly so) that the Bible also contains these same references for astral traveling.  And yet, a majority of the church world still considers OBE's as an ungodly thing.  I just didn't know if Muslims felt the same way.  For instance, even though you see references in the Quran to support your astral views, I wonder if other Muslims use the Quran to teach AGAINST them.....must like people do with the Bible.

quote:Originally posted by Fat_Turkey

These are my current obstacles on my quest for OBE.

1) Fear. I am scared crapless of doing an OBE at night. I am so afraid of OBE symptoms that I don't even dare doing WILD attempts in fear something will attack me. Don't ask, I'm a bit of an insomniac.

You must look within yourself and ask what it is you're really afraid of.  If you have never had an OBE before, than what makes you think that you will get attacked?

I remember when I was first reading about OBE's (but before I experienced them), I was a little fearful of the same things you are.  However, I soon realized that all my fear was self-generated.  It was my mind blowing things out of proportion.  "What if this happens?  What is that happens? etc..."  

However, it's those types of feelings which hold a person back from relaxing and staying conscious enough to experience the wonderful feeling of projecting.  You must reassure that nothing can happen to you when you project.  You have all the power, and as long as you can control your thoughts, you can have a truly magical experience.  I have had numerous projections and none of them have ever been negative.  Even the ones were I heard weird screaming, or feeling unseen hands grab me were not that terrifying.  Actually, they are more annoyances than anything.

quote:
2) Breath Awareness. The exercise is so extensively used throughout Astral Dynamics yet it is near impossible for me to do. Sure it may be that today was my first few good attempts at it, but it's just so hard!

What are you doing, and what do you find difficult?  If you think about it, the whole point of breath awareness is to relax your body.  If you can relax without doing these things, then by all means, do that instead.  Trying to force yourself to do something just because it works for someone else is the wrong way to go.  Do what works for you, and develop your own techniques by tweaking others.

Best of luck.

quote:Originally posted by rodentmouse

yellow,    try stretching  your legs before,  like  some  yoga exercises for example.

Another thing you can do which works for me is shake your legs.  When you're laying on your back, just take your right leg, for example, and just twitch it back and forth, back and forth, over and over.  Keep this up for as long as you can.

After a few minutes, when you stop, it will seem to throb a little bit, and then you'll be surprised at how relaxed it seems.  Works for me, anyway!

quote:Originally posted by Mohamed

Thanks for the welcome Tisha!  I am looking forward to posting my experiances and also reading the experiances of others.

Mohamed

Welcome Mohamed.  I too look forward to hearing of your progress....I'm also curious to hear how friends and family in the Muslim community embrace things like OOBE's and astral projection.  Are they going to be receptive of it?

quote:Originally posted by Kodemaster

Hey Jeff,

Good to see you again! How have you been? Thank you for your comments. []

Been good.  Good and busy!  Mostly with the WWW: work, website, and wedding.  []

quote:Originally posted by tgz6

Whenever I try to project I only feel my legs seperating and my arms.  I can feel a second set of them waving about and thats it.  I can never fully seperate.  My visualisation method is a first person view of me getting up from my bed and going to the door or window depending.  Heres an entry from my MS Word journal:
Tonight I decided I was going to do it no matter how long it took me.  And I did have a partial separation, after my head was vibrating fast and my heart was pounding out of my chest so much I was sweating from the extra body heat.  After the vibrations subsided I could feel that I seemed to have an extra pair of legs floating just above my physical body's legs I could feel them floating up through my bed covers and back down into the mattress.  I tried using meditation to separate the rest but I was so excited from this experience that I couldn't do anything.  Right before I got up to go to work at 730am I decided to try the Tibetan meditation again, the last time it felt as if my entire body was floating up and down.
Well my attempt tonight made my arms and legs float up and down, no matter how hard I tried I couldnt get the rest out, and I must also mention that it took at least two months for me to get to this point.  I wonder if I just need to keep trying or what til I finally get it?  Any word of help would be appreciated.

Hey there,

Your experience sounds a lot like mine did in the beginning of my projections.  If I may, I'd like to tell you what works for me when I find myself in the same situation.

During a separation process, if I find myself stuck, or only having astral arms/legs floating around, this is usually due to a couple of things:

1) My consciousness is only partially aware of what's going on.  In other words, I'm awake enough to know that I'm having an OBE, but I'm still too mentally tired to focus on getting all the way out.

2) Either that or I get too excited with the fact that I'm aware of having an OBE, and this excitement roots me down in my physical body.

In both instances, what I do when I find myself in this situation is REMAIN CALM.  To do this, I focus on breathing.  Just take a few deep breaths.  With each breath of air that you inhale in, you will feel yourself become lighter and lighter.  After a few of these, you may be surprised to see that you are lifted out of your body quite easily and laid on the floor next to the foot of your bed.

That is, if you can remain calm and not get too excited.  Remaining emotionally detached is tricky, but it usually means the difference between a quick OBE and a long one.

quote:Originally posted by Kodemaster

Hi guys,

I excercise regularly, but because of circumstances beyond my control, I was unable to make it to the gym for 3-4 weeks.

During this time period, I did not have a single OBE, despite doing a lot of meditation.

As soon as I got back into going to the gym I had an OBE. I believe I've also had a few that I can't remember.

Anyone else notice this?

Best,

You know, I used to notice that when I worked out (or was more active in general), that my OBE's became more frequent.  I think it may have to do with a couple of factors.

1) When you're more active during the day (or at the gym, for instance), your body tends to relax easily and deeply when you finally lay down.  This is a key to disassociating your mind from your physical body.

2) An active healthy body can be a reflection of your inner spiritual mentality.  Someone who just lounges around the couch all day may be lazy and have little motivation when it comes to achieving goals.....and as you know, you usually need a lot of motivation, persistance, and patience when it comes to achieving OBE's on a regular basis.  An active, disciplined person (which one usually has to be to work out 3-4 days a week) may find it easier to relax and phase into the astral realms.

Just my two cents.

quote:Originally posted by Nick

Hi Jeff,

We haven't traded posts. I arrived last Spring after you took a little time off. I wanted to say that while reading past "sticky" threads in the Astral Consciousness forum, I've come across some of your posts. I got a good feeling from them, and am looking forward to hearing more from you. Also, congratulations on your upcoming wedding.

Very best,

Hi there Nick....thanks for the reply.  I look forward to talking with everybody too, as time permits.  Again, if anyone ever needs to reach me or ask any questions, I am always available via email at jeff@myjokemail.com

quote:Originally posted by fallnangel77

Hey, Jeff. Welcome back!

Why is it that you feel you cannot share this part of your life with her? I remember the post on this but I do not remember the reason why you could not tell her. If you feel like talking about it now that is.

The reason why I didn't say anything to her about my astral experiences was twofold.  One, because they are a deeply meaningful experience for me, and I didn't want her skepticism to possibly turn me off to her, or think differently about her.  

Second of all, in all relationships, it's good to have something that's "just your own."  I often see my OBE's in this fashion.....their something that I am learning to master and use to further my spiritual walk in this lifetime.  Perhaps once I get a little more proficient in my OBE skills, I will feel strong enough to tell her about these experiences.

That's it in a nutshell.  In the meantime, there is enough astral travel literature all over my house to give the average person a HINT about what I am into.  I just don't know when I will come right out and say that I actually have these experiences yet.

Thanks Adrian and Wisp.  Like I said, I am going to try and make every effort to come in here.  You guys and gals mean a lot to me.

I will be gone for a couple weeks though for my Honeymoon.  After that, hopefully things will be calm at my job and I'll be able to surf through the thousands of messages that get posted here!

Hi there Amber.....

Welcome to the board.  You're experience was very compelling to read, and I look forward to hearing more from you.

Feel free to post any questions on this board, as there's a lot of helpful people with a lot of experience who'll be more than happy to offer advice.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by justinh:]

quote:Originally posted by justinh:
I seem to get better relaxation by breathing a bit faster than this, and exhaling loudly through the mouth and not exhaling or inhaling too deeply.  It seems that inhaling/exhaling too deeply takes too much concentration (for me) to let me get truly relaxed.  What do you think???

I say go with whatever you feel works for you.  Sometimes when I lay down after a long day of work, I find that I have exhale pretty hard in order to help me relax.  

However, if I'm already calm, I find that quiet, smooth exhales work best.  The bottom line is that you should be able to adjust depending on your current mindset.  Tweaking your techniques here and there is what it's all about....to tailor them to your current situation.  =)


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

I haven't met anyone, but a few years ago, I partnered up with someone across the country, and we decided to try to visit each other on a certain night.

While I had no success at getting out, she was able to project to my bedroom and verify things laying around there which she couldn't have known otherwise, like my acoustic guitar resting against the headboard of the bed, etc.

She says she tried to wake me up, but I was real groggy.  Anyway, that's the only story I have of someone meeting another person while projecting.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Thanks for the response, Frank.  I agree with you when you say, "Basically, I'm trying to explore every avenue. "

Well said.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

I was either a Freshman or Sophmore in high school, and this one older kid told me he could have OBE's and spy on his girlfriend.  I thought that was so cool at the time, and this is what initially sparked my interest.  =)


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Ginny:]

quote:Originally posted by Ginny:
ps.....Jeff--have you found  a portal in the 3D that instantly took you somewhere?

Not yet, Gin.  Last night, I started to see the familiar pin-point of light which would pop up in my peripheral vision.  I remember starting to see "something" which looked different in the 2D blackness.......but I simply fell asleep from exhaustion.

Believe me, though.....you will be one of the first to hear about my progress when it comes!


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Frank:]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:
The big downside, well for me that is, is you don't have the same kind of direct, 1st-person experience of actually being within the Astral.

Frank...

Yes, I have noticed this too.  My initial reaction to this is the same as telling a kid, "Ok, no more television, but instead, I'll read you the manuscript of everything going on and you can imagine the scene in your head."

Given that scenario, I become somewhat discouraged, especially after having so many AP's with all the realism that comes along with them.

However, the frequency at which I have AP's is not as good as I would like....whereas phasing (the way Bruce Moen teaches) almost seems like one could do it at will, with a greater success rate.  Do you think that way as well?

So for me, while I desire to perfect the traditional 3D full blown astral projection, I've been starting to practice with Bruce's way, since like you, I'm starting to experience some interesting things.

Do you think you will continue on with Moen's phasing and just take an traditional AP's when they come?  Or are you alternating different techniques night by night, depending on what you feel like?  Again, for me, my sole concentration purpose right now is to get to a portal in the 3D blackness as we described on both AstralPulse and Bruce's site.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

This "astral wind" used to happen to me all the time, but here is what I think it is.

Imagine that you sit yourself down into the seat of a magic car.  This car is so magical and so POWERFUL that merely the slightest touch of the accelerator and you will start to fly in whatever direction your pointed in.

Astral wind is kind of like that.  When you're in the astral environment, a mere thought could send you flying (what seems like) thousands of miles per hour.  This is why it's important to not only have a strong INTENT when you project, but also keep your mind in a very passive mode.  

To give you an example of the astral wind, one time I found myself out and standing near my bed.  Out of nowhere, this 'wind' started to roll over me and 'carry' me somewhere.  I quickly grabbed the headboard of my bed and held on, while the rest of my body was flying in the air.  Imagine a person holding onto a stop sign in the middle of a tornado....with his body perfectly parallel to the street.  That's what I looked like!

When I let go, I became disorientated (because I didn't remain emotionally closed and passive) and unfortunately, I lost control of the experience.

Anyway, from my experience, this 'astral wind' is simply the sudden motion which tries to carry us somewhere, usually where we're unconsciously thinking.  Or perhaps an unseen guide is trying to carry you somewhere.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com