Messages

[Originally posted by Ginny:]

quote:Originally posted by Ginny:
And Jeff, once while in the 3D blackness (and long before I really understood what that blackness was or could be achieved there), as I was just curiously watching little pin-points of light come and go (just thinking it was a brain thing)...several suddenly...slowly, formed a circle and remained fixed! And from there I had an experience that, which so indicative of afterlife exploration, changed me...brought me so much closer to awareness of who and what I really am.-----:O)

Ginny.....

I see these ALL the time, but I never know what to make of them.  Like you said, they're usually the size of a pin, but very bright and very different than the normal ambiance of light that swirls around my field of vision when I'm relaxing.

So you suggest that when I see these bright pin-points of light, although they may dissappear, to simply maintain a childlike curiousity about them and just wait for more to appear?

I'm just wondering what you would suggest I do at this stage, since I can consciously get to this stage very easily now.   Or should I say, I can consciously RECOGNIZE these pin-points of light now, since I believe that they're always there but we aren't tuned into them.



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Jeff Mash
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Well, the type of experience you described (flying around at lightening fast speeds in the dark) is something that has happened to me more times than I can count, and I never had any type of surgery in my life.  This usually happens when I spontaneously project but I have little to no control over the experience, I end up flailing through the air at remarkable speeds, in pitch black most of the time, and sometimes and intense fear comes over me that I'm going to smack into something.

However, to err on the side of caution, I wouldn't completely rule out that this is a side effect of your surgery.  Do you have any check ups that you have to go to in the future?  If so, I would just make sure that you've recovered without any problems.

If the doc says that you're good, then I probably wouldn't worry too much about it.  After all, this 'feeling' that you felt in your pituitary (sp?) gland seemed to stop when you willed yourself to slow down and return from your experience.....which leads me to believe that you were just feeling intense energy on your 3rd eye chakra.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by kvan:]

quote:Originally posted by kvan:
Just a quick question, is it a good idea to rest a day between NEW training days, sort of like in weight training, where the day off gives the muscles time to heal and grow, would the same principal apply to the energy body, to keep it from becoming too worn out or over-used?

Personally, I would probably only rest if I was feeling burnt out.  Sometimes, for example, I can practice projecting without success, and I can lose sleep over it.  This can leave me feeling drained at times.  So when I feel like that, I simply tell myself, "Ok, tonight is a night I'm dedicating to sleep!"  

However, if you feel up for the challenge, then I would attempt your energy development as long as possible.



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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by Adrian:]

quote:Originally posted by Adrian:
You mention relaxation and energy raising - I was just wondering just how relaxed, and how much energy you raise and how before the intent procedure?

Adrian, one of the main relaxation techniques that I do now is something that I read from Bruce's site, and it works every time with me.

It's the 3x3x3 technique, and there's nothing magical about it.  In fact, it sounds a lot like things we've heard before, but by labelling it '3x3x3', it seems a bit more practical.

Here's is what I do.  When laying down in a relaxed position and eyes closed, I take a very deep breath in.  I hold it for a second, and then exhale.  Nothing special, just simple deep breaths.  On the exhale, make sure you relax your entire body.

Do that 3 times.

After that, when you inhale, imagine that you're drawing up bright, sparkling energy from a pool just below your feet.  Draw this energy up through your body on the inhale.  Hold it for a second, and then when you exhale, imagine that energy to come out of the top of your head, and shimmer back down into the pool by your feet.

Do that 3 times.

Finally, you do the opposite.  Take a deep breath in, but this time, imagine that you're drawing energy from a pool located ABOVE your head.  Draw this energy into your body.......and on the exhale, push that energy out your feet and into the pool of energy located down there.

Do that 3 times.

That's it.  You might be surprised at how RELAXED you are from simply taking 9 breaths with the preceding exercise.

Sometimes, as was the case with me last night, after doing this exercise, I still wasn't relaxed.  At that point, I continued to take deep, relaxing breaths, but on the exhale, I 'imagined' that I sunk deeper and deeper into the blackness of my closed eyelids.

Anyway, I recommend everyone to try that technique.  One of the things I notice is that after doing those 9 breaths, when I'm done, it almost feels like I'm breathing only a couple times a minute.......like I can hold my breath forever, simply because I'm so relaxed.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by fredhedd:]

quote:Originally posted by fredhedd:
is the three d blackness the same as being in a deep or full trance state?

I would say that being in the 3D blackness means that you are in a very relaxed state, but to be in a very relaxed state does not mean that you're in the 3D blackness.

A lot of people have trouble imaging what this 3D blackness is like, so I will try to give you a visual example.  Imagine that you walk into your bedroom, and everything is pitch black.  I'm talking NO source of light anywhere.  THe blackness you will see would be very two dimensional and flat.  You may see flashes of light or sparkles, but for the most part, there is no substance to this blackness.

Now, imagine that there is a slight (and I do mean slight) illumination coming from another room, which seeps into your bedroom from the bottom of your closed bedroom door.  It will still be very dark in your room, but now you can make out shapes.  Just ahead of you, you may be able to see the outline of your dresser.  You might sense your nightstand on your left.  

It's that kind of FEELING that I get when I'm in the 3D blackness.  There is a depth that comes with it which allows me to 'move' around it and focus on different things.

Hope that helps.....




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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by Frank:]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:
Another problem that still comes about with me, now and again, is when I perceive not a specific image but an all-round light. It's normally the light from my regular guide, Harath. It comes across like someone is shining a light from directly above. Often my mind gets confused thinking I have woken up late and the light is the normal daylight that pervades my bedroom.  

Yours,
Frank

Frank,

Would you say this light is similar to the light that one might see when he first lies down and closes his eyes?  Allow me to explain further with my own experience.

When I lie down and begin some relaxation techniques, I often see flashes of light, or sometimes lingering white light that simply swirls around my field of vision.  This is something that I've always attributed to after-light effects....much like what you experience if you look directly into a bright light and then look away.

However, recently, I've started to 'pretend' that these lights were not merely an after effect, but that they were something more.  A portal perhaps, or at least some form of energy that I was perceiving (which in all actuality is true, since everything as we know it is made up of energy).

So that is why I asked, if these light images that one usually sees almost immedietely after closing your eyes, if these are similiar to the light that you see for Harath?


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by DakotaRidge:]

quote:Originally posted by DakotaRidge:
if I try to go more than 30 meters or so from where I start out, everything shifts.  If anybody has come up with any methods for possibly controlling this annoying shifting, I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Hey Dakota....

From what I've learned, the more emotionally closed off you are, the greater your chances are of maintaining control.

Now, when I say to be closed off, I'm not suggesting that you block yourself from being receptive to the subtle energy environment.  What I am saying, however, is that you should be careful with how much leeway you give to your emotions.

For example, you say that every time you get roughly 30 meters from your body, you shift.  This shifting has nothing to do with the distance you are from your physical body.  For me, the farther I travelled, the greater my chances were that my mind would THINK about my body.  

You see, once you get the 'feel' for being 'out,' it's easy to walk around your house, because you're familiar with the area and you know that your body is in the bedroom.  But when you start flying, say, to another country, you sometimes begin to think about things that you didn't think about before.

So what I try to do is to remain calm and take things SLOW.  I don't try to rush anything, and when I feel myself becoming excited (or nervous), I do whatever I can to calm myself down and SOAK in the experience.  God knows that once you let your emotions get the best of you, the experience is going to spiral downward and you'll find yourself back in bed.



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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by Ginny:]

quote:Originally posted by Ginny:
Hi Jeff,

Both Bruce and I answered you at his conversation board. Take special note of his reply because he brought up a good point: the importance of *feeling* oneself move their nonphysical sight around in the 3D blackness.

Am having a lot of fun with this new technique!---:O)

Much love,

Gin

Thanks Gin.....going there now!


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by Ginny:]

quote:Originally posted by Ginny:

Anyhoo, I practiced opening up to what I was feeling,  what I was watching, in the 3D, moving my eyes as Bruce said to do...look around...and one area suddenly appeared that kinda felt to be in relief from the alive black background. It just had an odd or different feel to it than the rest of the blackness, so I went for it, placing the intent to go to my F27 treehouse.

Hi Ginny,

The text I quoted above is something I've been working on for a while now.  You see, when I lay down to relax and start to shift my awareness to the 3D blackness, I can feel my PHYSICAL eyes looking around, trying to spot a portal.  Sometimes, this movement of my physical eyes causes my eyelids to peer open slightly.

However, I notice that when I come back from an OBE/AP, usually after one that has spontaneously occured after some sleep, my physical eyes are very relaxed.  I feel I can still look and observe the 3D blackness, but my physical eyes are not the ones moving and percieving the images.

So my question is this: is Bruce encouraging one to actually use the muscles of your physical eyes when looking at the 3D blackness?  I was working with trying NOT to use them, simply because they put a little strain in my head when trying to focus on something.  However, this may be working against me, so that is why I wanted to ask what YOU do.  

What usually happens with me is that I relax my eyes to simply passivly stare in front of my closed eyelids.   Almost like those magic 3D pictures which only come into focus when your eyes are relaxed.

Then, when something comes into focus (an image, a shape, etc), I feel my physical eyes shift to it's location and try to "lock on" to it.  Is this what you do as well?  Or do you try to keep your physical eyes fixed ahead in a passive manner, and mentally lock on to the image?

Thanks for the feedback.


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Jeff Mash
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Yes.   While this may not happen with everyone, to say that it's abnormal is absurd.  Unless, of course, the snapping noise came from your physical neck.  In that case, I would advise you to see a doctor straight away!


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by cainam_nazier:]

quote:Originally posted by cainam_nazier:
Okay I am familiar with pre-projection noises, the banging, voices, and various other things.  But I have heard various other people mention a ripping sound.  I have never heard a ripping sound before, well until yesterday.  It sounded like some one took about 50 sheets of paper and ripped them in half, just once.  In fact it was so load I woke up.

  My question is this.  Is this ripping sound that common for projectors?  and two, does it seem to signify anything aside from other pre-projection noises?

I wouldn't think there is anymore relevance to a ripping sound as there would be for any other sound.  From my experience, one can hear all sorts of projection sounds (or sometimes none at all).  

To me, they're just a biproduct that you experience when crossing from one vibrational state (physical) to a higher vibrational state (astral).

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Jeff Mash
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Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by LapSiLap:]

quote:Originally posted by LapSiLap:
When I relax and try to get in trance I usually can feel very clearly that my body gets very heavier when I breath out and when I breath in it gets lighter, as if a body inside me is floating.
I memorized these feelings and now I usually can get my body feel heavier or lighter whether I breath in or out...

Can this help me get in trance state easier?
It's so hard, plz help...

Whatever you do, try to get to the phase where you don't feel (or even think) about your body at all.  Concentrating on how heavy/light it is can be good in the initial stages of relaxation, but the deeper you breath and relax, the more you should start to FORGET about your body.

Only then can you truly focus within on your thoughts and not on anything rooting you to this reality.


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Jeff Mash
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The only people who I talk about it with are people online, such as you guys on this forum.  Those closest to me have no idea, save for a select few.

I don't think I fear the "you're crazy" reaction as I am the "Oh big deal" reaction.  Part of me wants everyone to react in a way which mimics a 5 year old getting his favorite present on Christmas day.  Knowing that this is a mere fantasy, I choose to keep my thoughts and projections to myself, only sharing them with those who're like minded.

As I've mentioned on this board recently, I'm slowing working the nerve to introduce the idea of astral projection to my fiance, Brandi.  I would like her to accept it the most, which is why I've hidden it from her for so long.


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Jeff Mash
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Here's what I've noticed since I first responded to this topic:

When I'm DREAMING (or projecting), I'm ALWAYS in the first person.  However, when I'm told to "imaging yourself walking along a path.....", I see myself in the third person.  So I guess when I'm consciously trying to recreate something in my mind, I do it in third person.  But when I'm consciously EXPERIENCING something, it's always in the first person.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by goingslow:]

quote:Originally posted by goingslow:
well in particular the one that goes by the handle "Frank" why do you think you know what's real and what isnt.

There is no doubt while in the astral many of the entities are in fact thought but who are you to say therefore there are no real entities out there that outside of our brain and thought?  I have read quite a few of your comments where you say "these are thought projections and i dont know why people cant see that".  Im paraphrasing but do you really think you have such a better understanding of negative entities where you're the one who's right and the rest just dont understand or aren't as educated on this subject as you?

You also stated you were one of the people who Monroe has visited?  and he's mad at you?  Now if anythings a figment of one's imagination and wishful thinking its that monroe visted you and more than this he cares enough and you're important enough where he'd be mad at you on the other side?
I have read practically the whole forum in order to get an idea of what's happening and no one more than you stands out as being full of yourself and the belief the only thing real out there is what you experience.  

To state all negative entities are just projections of ones mind is as narrow minded and as ignorant as those who state AP isn't possible because it hasn't happened to them.  

I think on this forum more than any people should be careful about trying to enforce widely accepted "truths" such as there are no negative entities that exist outside of ones own mind.  IT may be true the only thing to fear is how your mind responds to these negative (as in an energy that takes energy from others) entities, it is ignorant and very arrogant to assume most or all are peoples own minds.  

Just because it is plausible and is possible to create an entity with your fear it is not then a given that any entity is just a projection of that fear.  Long before I knew of astral projection and long before i knew what a lucid dream was I encountered these entities.  I then used them as a way to realize im dreaming and have lucid dreams so in my case the entities came first.. the lucidity came second.  

I am not trying to attack you but you come off as the most arrogant and " i know it all" type of personality here and just wondering if you realize that.

No one here should claim anyone elses experiences are "just... " the fact most of us believe in ap and have people tell us they're just figments of our imaginations should make us steer clear of that type of judgment on others experiences.  

Hi there, my friend.  I read what you're saying, but I'm almost positive that you're confusing Frank with someone else.  I don't *think* it was Frank who claimed to have been visited by Monroe.

I'm also not sure that Frank said a lot of those things which you're describing, or at least, he may not have said them in that context.  Is there anyway that you could copy/paste what he said, or provide actual quotes from Frank so we can understand more clearly that which you're referring to?

Otherwise, we have no idea that Frank is the person who really said those things.


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Jeff Mash
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Yes, welcome to the board, love.  It's always nice to see new faces!


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Jeff Mash
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Well said, Tisha.  =)


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by lifebreath:]

quote:Originally posted by lifebreath:
Hi folks! I'm new here and would like some input...

Often, I'll be very tired, go to bed, start to fall asleep, then right in the transition to sleep, I feel suddenly filled with energy, fully alert and often seem to be able to see the room even though my eyelids are shut and the room is dark. This is not an unpleasant feeling, but it's hard to get to sleep subsequently. Also, I find that with disturbing regularity, during this same transition stage, some sudden noise will occur that startles me (e.g., my wife moves or coughs, one of my children cries, etc.) After this, I have difficulty falling asleep, sometimes having "panicy" feelings. Once asleep, I generally sleep well. (I also recall that as a child, I often had hypnogogic paralysis and visions/hallucinations and other hypnogogic disturbances. For example, the vision of an old woman sitting at the base of my bed in a large wicker chair or the feeling of hands on my body.)

Hi lifebreath....welcome to the board.

I'm very familiar with this state that you often find yourself in.  What happens is that at some point while laying down, whether before you sleep or as you're waking up, your waking consciousness SNAPS to the forefront of your mind.  

So what happens is that you find yourself laying there, fully awake but your body is still fully asleep.  You're fully aware of all that's around you, but it can be difficult to go "back to sleep" because for all intents and purposes, you're now fully awake (mentally speaking).

This same thing happened to me this morning.  I snapped back to my full waking consciousness around 6:00am, and I was able to see things through my closed eyelids.  I felt wide awake, but up until this point, I hadn't moved my physical body.  I just layed there in perfect silence, expressing a gentle curiousity as to what I was seeing.

But then, my f***ing cat started clawing at the bedroom door and I knew I had to get up to let her in.  After that, I couldn't get my physical body back in the super-relxaed state it was in previously.

quote:
Just for background info, I'm what I would consider an "esoteric Christian". I'm Catholic, have had very profound spiritual experiences of rebirth or spiritual awakening, healing and growth within the charasmatic Christian context (ie, speaking in tongues, spiritual visions),

Same here.  Although I haven't spoken in tongues for awhile (even though I can do it whenever I want).  I used to do it when I prayed, but since I no longer attend church and pray the way I used to, I simply stopped speaking in tongues.

I often wonder how some "non-christians" feel about speaking in tongues and what it all means.  Do any of you care to comment on that one?  

I know the common answer is "It's all a bunch of gibberish."  However, there was a time when I personally could not speak in tongues, though I tried desparately to do so.  It was only one day, 5-6 months later, when I was fervently praying that "the spirit of God" fell upon me....and to my amazement, I was speaking in tongues.  From that day forward, I have been able to do it at will, with no problems.

I'm just curious how non-christians explain that, since I get incredible guilt trips from my Christian family members that I've turned my back on God, since I've been "filled with the Holy Ghost" and given this proof of Him inside me......but because I fail to attend church, I'm considered a backslider.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by asstray85:]

quote:Originally posted by asstray85:
I agree bear.  If you are going to reply to this topic, dont reply on impulse and express your knowlege of drugs, because dmt is different.  It is naturally secreted during meditiation, therefor if you take it externally its equivelent to intense meditation.

hey there Steve...

I guess my problem with that outlook is the fact that you achieve a certain state without the discipline which goes along with it.  

In other words, through meditation, one learns to listen to their thoughts and their inner voice.  As they go deeper and deeper, they may start to experience vivid images, sounds, and other phenomenon.  Now, if a person were simply able to smoke/swallow something which would take them right to the vivid images or sounds, this bypasses all the inner discipline that was normally needed to get there.

"So what?  If I can get from point A to point C without going to point B, how is that bad?"

I'm not really saying it's bad, persay.  To each his own.  However, from my own experience, knowing that I had to work hard to achieve this meditative state on my own has allowed me to grow stronger as a spiritually minded person.  There is no doubt in my mind that I have made this progress through sheer determination.  If I were to have smoked/swallowed something, then there would always be that thought in the back of my mind that this 'substance' contributed to my experience and not me myself.

People will also say, "But taking this drug is no different than buying a hemi-sync tape.  Both are external 'tools' used to achieve the same goal."

My only contention with that is that hemi-sync still utilizes a lot of mental control and focus.  A lot of these tapes guide a person through the process which one must focus on in order to achieve the right F-level.  It has nothing to do with stimulating or introducing chemicals into the body, regardless of what is produced naturally.

Anyway, I'm not perfect.  This is just my two cents.



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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by overworked:]

quote:Originally posted by overworked:
Jeff,

As always, thanks for your insight it is greatly appreciated and has helped me thus far.  I have to say that the talking/screaming was quite amazing.  Disturbing to some degree, but quite clear.  I remember first entering this state, and someone yelling my name and asking what I'm doing here.  I was 100% conscious of what was going on.  I'll remain passive next time, and see where it gets me.  I wasn't sure when to use the exit routine.

It can be tough, but now that you consciously know to remain calm, it should be much easier for you.

There have been a couple of times when, during the separation process, I would find myself in this black void and hear horrible screams.  I tell ya, it scared the astral poop out of me.

But when this happens, I simply remain calm and either one of two things happen:

1) The noises (or other disturbing things) cease
2) My heart beats too fast and I lose control!

Anyway, best of luck, my friend.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by asstray85:]

quote:Originally posted by asstray85:
DMT is a drug that is completely harmless.  Our body produces the chemical and it stimulates to pineal gland

Yeah?  Well my body also produces methane but you won't see me putting anymore of that inside of it.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by overworked:]

quote:Originally posted by overworked:
Once in this stage, I do not know what to do.  Am I to remain passive, or to try an exit my body?  

When in doubt, ALWAYS remain passive.  That's what I do.  I find that if I remain passive no matter what hypnogogic imagery or sounds I hear, the separation/phasing process will come naturally.

This goes for people who're also trying to separate (via ROPE, rollout method, etc).  If you find that you can only get halfway 'out,' just relax INTO the sensations and they will gradually lift you out almost effortlessly.

Sometimes, we try to struggle and do everything ourselves, like roller skating with our foot pressed on the rubber stopper.  Just relax and you'll find that half the things you're fighting are not the problem.



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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by auraseer:]

quote:Originally posted by auraseer:
Hi,
When you are asleep and dreaming, your viewpoint is behind you. You are not looking out of your eyes, it is like looking out someone elses eyes behind you.

Why is this?

Then I must be weird because my perspective when I dream, for the most part, is all first person.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by fredhedd:]

quote:Originally posted by fredhedd:
of course santa is real

I agree.  He resides alongside the Easter Bunny, women who don't get cranky during PMS,  and men who can actually pee IN the toilet without spraying it all over the wall.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by slydeni:]

quote:Originally posted by slydeni:
So my questions: 1. Is this a real OBE (i.e. the lucid dream approach that I guess I am using) and the same experience as when you just relax, energize, trance out, vibrate...and leave? Or is this a less "potent" OBE...one that is more a dream? I really do not want to have to rely on becoming lucid...its too infrequent- I want Control...

First of all, welcome to the board.  To answer your question, I would take any lucid experience anyway I can get it.  It's all a matter of bringing your full conscious awareness into your altered state of mental focus.  To put it simply, whether you become aware that you're dreaming, or whether you become aware that you're asleep, as long as you remain calm and relaxed, you can have a very beneficial experience.

In my opinion, there is no such thing as a "less potent OBE."  There is only projections with varying degrees of awareness.  If you're projecting and you have only a little awareness which fleets all over the place, the experience will seem more dreamlike.

The opposite is true as well.  If you project and you have a strong control of your awareness throughout the entire time, then your experience will blow your mind away.

quote:
2. How do I keep from nosediving into the floor? I really want to keep going and explore...

It's all about remain calm and emotionally closed off from the abundant excitement that comes with projecting.

Think about it.....if you were to thrust your hand through the computer screen that you're looking at right now, chances are that your heart would start racing!  Your brain would also be bombarded with all kinds of thoughts:

"Holy crap!  Look at my arm!"
"Is this really happening?"
"I can't wait to show everyone this cool ability!"
etc......

Since when you project, your full conscious mind is still present with you (just as it is now), you're still going to experience these physical thoughts.  Your heart is still going to race and you're still going to get excited when you find out you have "Super powers."  

The key is to KNOW that this is going to happen and remain calm.  You almost have to detach the way you normally would react in this situation and just ACCEPT it.  When you walk through a door, don't get too blown away that you're doing it.

Another thing I try and do to prolong the experience is to not rush it.  It's almost a habit to project and immedietely tell myself, "Ok, hurry and do something meaningful before it ends!"  This is almost a surefire way of killing the experience, because you're already setting yourself up to END the projection.

Instead, take things slow.  Tell yourself that you can stay out as long as you want.  Don't rush and see if that helps you.



Again...thanx so much for reading, and helping. I very much look forward to becoming a frequent reader/ writer on this board.

lotsa love
sly                

-"Twilight is oh so near...a million miles between us dear...just close your eyes...and meet me on the Astral Plane..."  - Divided by Zero


[/quote]


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Jeff Mash
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