Messages

[Originally posted by ninthplanet:]

quote:Originally posted by ninthplanet:
I used the the dreams to make an analogy, they were not really pertinent to the question.  I just wanted to know while in an OBE does one have present knowledge that they are having one, and then they are able to try and go anywhere they choose.  Or, is it only after the OBE is over, does one realize they have had an OBE.

To answer your question, yes.  When I am having an OBE, I know exactly what is happening.  I know that this is not what normal people consider to be "real life" and that I'm projecting.  I know that if I don't maintain a level of detachment from the experience, then I may get too excited and return to my body, which I know is incapacitated elsewhere.

This is quite different from my normal dreams, when I only remember them after I wake up.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by Frank:]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:
Problem is, I always keep getting sidetracked as Focus 27 exploration for me is still a bit of a novelty.

Frank,

Out of curiousity, when you set your intent to travel, do you focus on any particular Focus Level?  For example, when in F10-F12, are you affiriming a strong mental declaration that you want to go to, say, Focus 27?


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by Zarklon:]

quote:Originally posted by Zarklon:
This was a thought that had occured to me a while ago but somethign was just keeping me from posting it .. finally I let loose and said what the hell . let me see what everyone thinks about this..


Has anyone tried to get someone to pass them out ? Like .. a choke hold in wrestling , with the intent to have an OOBE once they are unconcious?

Or has anyone tried to spin around in circles to create the dizzyness ? Then layed on the floor to use those feeligns maybe to leave the body ?  

I dunno if its possible but if so .. it would be easy as hell to do to right?  Maybe I'll mess with this sometime but has anyone ever tried it already ?

Hehe thanks and sorry for posting so many messages , I'm jst trying to help and be helped   http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_tongue.gif" border=0>

I think your suggestions fall right up there with, "Has anyone ever hit themselves in the head with a blunt object in order to OBE when they are unconscious?"

The problem with all of those is that you're simply knocking the person out.  This does not guaruntee anything, because your mind may be in shock from the experience.

For example, let's say that you and I decide to do an experiment.  You agree to knock me out with a choke hold, but not until I have a super strong intent to project once I'm out.

So here we are, two morons trying to force an OBE to happen.  I'm all ready and mentally prepared, and then you start to cut off my oxygen.  My mind quickly goes from "OBE thinking mode" to "Oh crap, I can't breathe mode."

When I finally wake up, I smack you and then I smack myself for trying such a dumb stunt!



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by michael:]

quote:Originally posted by michael:
Donna and Jeff..if I was able to guarantee an OBE at will i would be willing to undergo randi's chalenge...I am only being curious..why( and i konw this topic is done to death already)..but why don't you prove this wonderful thing( which I can only expereince spontaneously..after sleep..)

Michael,

I don't do that for two reasons.  One, I can't yet do these at will.  I can only prepare for them, create the right mindset, and hope that my intent is strong enough at the time to allow me to project without simply falling asleep.  

Second, to me, Randi is not a skeptic.  He's a cinic.  He is not wanting to believe.  His mind is already made up, and those kinds of people are never convincable.

It's almost a catch 22 for me.  The only time I would try to convince a skeptic is when I can do these at will, whenever I want.  However, once I'm able to do these at will (whenever I want), then I'll have my mind too busy focusing on helping others instead of debunking skeptics.




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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by Gandalf:]

quote:Originally posted by Gandalf:
Jeff -
you say that you watch yourself (the process that is) of going to sleep...

doesnt that just result in not being able to go to sleep?
I would imagine that the result would be that you would keep mentally ckecking yourself evertime you were drifting off, resulting in no sleep!

Can you clarify?
I would like to use this simple technique but it does sound like it could lead to the insomniacs nightmare...
But I'm not thinking of it in the right way.

When I say I watch myself go to sleep, I have to do it in a detached way.  It's like what happens to you when you stare at yourself in a mirror.  After a minute, your entire environment seems to fade to black, and all that seems to exist is your reflection.  You almost get caught up in it without even trying.

Watching myself go to sleep is a lot like that.....except instead of staring at a reflection, I stare into the blackness.  Every now and then, things come into focus, which I try to hold as long as possible.  The longer this goes on, the more clearer the images are and the longer I can hold them.

Sometimes, it keeps you awake, but the more you practice at it, the easier it becomes to allow your body to fall asleep while your mind is not only observant, but detached from the whole process.  The problem most people have is that they can get their body asleep just fine, but their mind is still very close to it.  You have to get to a point where the mere thought of a physical body is so foreign to you that you don't even think about it.


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by SPASTRAL:]

quote:Originally posted by SPASTRAL:
With any AP technique, when do you see? do you have to open your eyes, or does vision just "happen"

Sometimes you have to will it to happen.  Usually what I do is the following:

1) Make sure that you're away from the physical body.  Being too close often affects your astral senses.

2) Make sure you're relaxed.  Usually when beginners get out of body, there is so much adrenaline and excitement running through you that you aren't relaxed.

3) To help relax, I always take 2-3 deep, astral breaths.  With each breath I take, I imagine my vision coming in more and more clearly.  

4) While you're doing this, mentally declare, "Clarity now!"  Or "Vision Now!"  The words aren't important, so don't think this is somekind of magic.  The important thing is that you associate what you're saying to a greater clarity in vision.  State it with intent, be relaxed, and it will happen.  You just have to believe it will.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by fredhedd:]

quote:Originally posted by fredhedd:
i have read some of his books.  i don't know that i enjoyed them.  i read some more though.  i was very curious to see what he had to say.  i don't know where i stand w/ him, but the skeptic in me came out and  this thought came to mind after reading the books...here is this guy who has been hanging on every word of person who has been feeding him peyote buttons.  some of the time while he's eating the peyote buttons this person is directing him and telling him what to expect (sometimes).  while it is great to have a teacher to help you learn, i wonder if it were possible to have the same experiences if the same rituals were performed independent of outside influence.  if carlos ate the peyote buttons and performed the same actions but w/out the knowledge that they were going to bring on mescalito, i wonder what would have happened.  maybe, maybe this old man had a  much larger influence on him than he thought.  maybe not.

This is why I've strayed away from his books for a long time, for the simple fact that a lot of his experiences were induced from peyote.  However, I take knowledge wherever I can get it, and the bottom line is that I'm getting a lot out of the teachings of Don Juan.  Not so much his doctrine or anything dealing with scorcery, but he says things which make sense to my astral travels.  For example, here is something that clicked with me from his book, "The Art of Dreaming:'

"The energy body is like a child who's been imprisoned all its life.  The moment it's free, it soaks up everything it can find, and I mean everything.  Every irrelevant, minute detail totally absorbs the energy body."

This made sense to me.  The last few times I was out of my body and I decided to stare at something, it not only increased my lucidity but it started to ruin my experience, because I was latching onto and observing the smallest details of everything!  Castenada continues with his warning:

"The most asinine detail becomes a world for the energy body.  The effort that [projectors] have to make to direct the energy body is staggering.  I know that it sounds awkward to tell you to view things with care and curiousity, but that is the best way to describe what you should do. [On this level] you have to avoid a nearly irresistable impulse to plunge into everything, and you avoid it by being so curious, so desparate to get into everything that you don't let any particular thing imprison you."

I don't know if this rings true with anyone else, but this advice is exactly what I needed to here in my current astral realm learnings.




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Jeff Mash
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Hehehe, if only what Fred said was true!  Welcome back, babe!  Hope you can stick around a lot more, just like the old days!


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Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by fredhedd:]

quote:Originally posted by fredhedd:
alright then this clears up some projections that i thought may have been lucid dreams ( if there is a difference) because i felt purely physical and thought afterwards that i wasn't supposed to feel like that in the astral.  

As I've mentioned before, it's usually so real and physical-like when you have a RT projection that I have to literally thrust my hand into a wall, just to make sure that I'm not physically awake!


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Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior:]

quote:Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior:
1.  Are you male of female?

All male baby!

quote:
2.  What race do you associate yourself with, if any?

Italian american who speaks spanish. Go figure.

quote:
3.  What is your favorite color?

Blue

quote:
4.  Favorite type of music (and group if you have a specific favorite)?

Rock/Indie/Alternnative.  I have too many favorite groups to name....current CD in my car is Tool.

quote:
5.  Favorite kind of films (ie. drama, action, documentary)?  Do you have a specific favorite?

No specific favorite.  I love everything from Matrix to Mallrats.

quote:
6.  Do you read often, sometimes or never?

Every night.

quote:
7.  If you enjoy reading, what kind of books do you like?

Anything having to do with the paranormal.  I'm just finishing Carlos Castenada's 'The Art of Dreaming.'  Next I'm starting John Edwards latest book 'Crossing Over.'

quote:
8.  Do you like television?  Do you watch often?

Thanks to my girlfriend, I'm now hooked on reality shows, like Real Word, Survivor, Amazing Race, etc.

quote:
9.  How do you feel about the media?

It has a liberal bias, but I use it to stay informed of current events.  

quote:
10.  Do you consider youself open minded?

I guess I would have to be in order to be a regular poster on this website!

quote:
11.  Are you an extrovert or an introvert?  Neither?

Probably an extrovert....although I usually don't speak unless spoken to.

quote:
12.  How do you feel about capitalism?

I'm all for it.  If given the resources to make a name for myself and earn a living, I'm going to do it.

quote:
13.  Do you feel racism is a big problem still?

Always has been, always will be.  As long as you have shallow people in this world, they will only see differences.

quote:
14.  What is your favorite type of food (general, ie. Italian and/or specific, ie. lasagna)?

Mexican food

quote:
15.  Do you believe in God (ie. intelligent design of the universe)?

Yes.

quote:
16.  Do you believe in evolution?

Yes.

quote:
17.  Do you enjoy watching sports?

I'm not really a sports guy.  If I'm with people and they are watching, I get into it.  But I never go out of my way to find a game and watch it.

quote:
18.  How do you feel about homosexuality?

I don't see how it benefits humanity, but I don't have any personal problems with it.

quote:
19.  Is society better today then 200 years ago?

Yes.

quote:
20.  If you had one wish, what would it be?

To be able to OBE / AP at will, whenever I wanted and with a 100% success rate.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Risu no Kairu:]

quote:Originally posted by Risu no Kairu:
Sounds more like they're asking how do you move. Like, do you move like in the physical? Just think about moving your body? Or do you imagine yourself moving and use the power of your mind?

Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!  I guess I read your original post too fast!

The answer is yes....when I am out, I move exactly the way I do in the physical, but with some perks.  For example, walking through solid objects is always fun....Not to mention flying.

But the bodily sensations and movement are the same for me.  If I want to walk to the kitchen, I just do it without thinking....the same way I do when I am awake.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by fredhedd:]

quote:Originally posted by fredhedd:
all of this dream vs oobe stuff confuses me some.  you have to be totally relaxed it seems to have a conscious oobe.   if you are dreaming then you are at that stage.  if you are at that stage in a dream and you go through the motions of projecting then why wouldn't you actually project if you weren't already?  it doesnt make sense that you would dream you projected and not have.  assuming the dream world is seperate from the astral.  confusion.

Fred,

Not to sound like a broken record or anything, but I believe it all has to deal with our consciousness, not so much with the way we attain awareness.

For example, would you say there is any real difference between someone who projects from their bedroom, and someone who realizes they are dreaming, lays down within the dream, and then projects from there?

I would say the answer is no, simply because the END RESULT is exactly the same: you're operating with your full waking awareness in an altered state.

I think too many of us get confused when we try and categorize everything.....is it a dream?  Is it an OBE?  Is it an AP? Is it RV?  etc.

There is nothing wrong with trying to categorize things in the above examples, because all of them are slightly different.  However, all of them share one common thread: they all require us to percieve while we're in an altered state of consciousness.  

As long as you strive for this altered state of awareness (and not strive for a certain category, like 'I only want to OBE'), then you won't be as confused.




Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior:]

quote:Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior:
Do you believe this?  What proof do we have?

Here's the way I look at it, and you can tell me if you all agree or not.

What is an OBE or an AP?  When it all comes down to it, it's nothing more than an altered state of consciousness.  Your conscious awareness is altered in a way which allows you to percieve that which you wouldn't normally percieve in a *normal* physically awake standard.  Even those who can be physically awake and project their consciousness (like Donna) can admit that their consciousness is altered a little bit.

With that being said, when we all lay down to sleep, what happens?  Many people say, "We all go out of our bodies when we sleep."  What does that mean?  To me, that statement could be worded better by saying, "We all enter an altered state of consciousness when we sleep."

I believe that to be true.  Whether you lay down and dream, project, or simply don't remember anything at all, you're still in an altered state of consciousness, or else you would remain awak and aware of your bedroom everytime you wanted to sleep!

So IMO, we all enter an altered state of consciousness when we sleep.  Because of this, we all have the ability to learn how to become AWARE of this altered state, which consequently induces an OBE/AP or LD.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by ninthplanet:]

quote:Originally posted by ninthplanet:
This meaning, when you're out of body, do you actually know whats going on and have concious thoughts like, " hey I'm out of my physical body right now, let me go explore.

I agree with Donna.  Whenever I am having an OBE/AP, I am fully aware of the situation.  I know that I'm in an altered state of consciousness.  I know that I have a physical body back in bed, and I possess all of my mental faculties (ability to reason, to discern my environment).

Bottom line, it's exactly as I am when I'm awake.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by Kenneth:]

quote:Originally posted by Kenneth:
(How can you remember that you have forgotten something ?!?)

The same way you do in real life!  You aren't forgetting the event, but the details of the event.  It's like being drunk at a party.  You remember talking to some girl, but you have no idea what you both talked about!



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by fredhedd:]

quote:Originally posted by fredhedd:
i can't recall most of the projections that i've had.  they happened spntaneously and were very vague.  i do remember opening up my physical eyes once and i was pulled back into my physical.  when moving limbs or any other part of your body do you have a sense of physical movement while on the astral, or do you mentally move yourself and then get a feeling of it?  i remember trying to stay still the few times that i t hought i was out and wondering if i moved would i actually move my body.

As far as I know, I haven't moved my physical body while I was in the astral.  But I would guess that one would be able to tune in and feel any sort of movement, just as one can hear sounds when in the astral that may be present near the physical body.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by fredhedd:]

quote:Originally posted by fredhedd:
jeff, when you are out does your astral body look transparent or physical?

For the most part, it looked pretty damn normal to me.  On a couple of occasions, I had seen a faint glow around it.  However, the last time I looked at my arms, they looked just like mine do now.  

Of course, I wasn't studying them or anything, but I glanced at them to see if they would disappear, and they looked normal.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by Zarklon:]

quote:Originally posted by Zarklon:
heres a question guys , if yo usay that projection are usually short .. does that vary with the person or are all of them always around 5 minutes ?

No, this varies from person to person.  For me personally, most of mine are around 5 - 10 minutes.  They've definitely gotten longer the more I've practiced and gotten experience.  Others have been known to stay out for hours.  I can only imagine what that must be like.  The thing is that when I'm projecting, I have no idea about time.  I don't even think about it.  It's only when I come back and analyze my experience that I start to tally up how long I must have been out, taking into account all that I saw and did.  So when I say I was out for 5 minutes, it's simply an approximation of how long I think I was out based on the experience.

quote:
What ends them if you dont want them to end?  

For me, they are sometimes hard to control.  The slightest thought about the physical body can send you back to it....and believe me, when you find yourself existing without your physcial body, it can be quite challenging not to think about it!

It's also difficult to control your emotions.  Overexcitement or fear can spiral the experience out of control and send you back.  Also, LACK of control will make the experience fade and you may simply fall into a deep sleep, hardly even remembering the OBE in the morning.

quote:
Is that only for the real time projection or can you increase the times and still remember it in much clarity ?

With practice, you can not only increase the length of your experiences, but you can remember the tiniest detail.



[/quote]



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by manuel:]

quote:Originally posted by manuel:
Has anyone had a obe outdoors? i am considering doing them outdoors in my backyard instead of in my room, mainly because i feel safer in my yard, i also have heard that plants give you energy.
Your thoughts.?

Yes, it's possible to have an OBE outdoors, Manual.  One of my most memorable ones was when I was outside in a tent.

By the way, I shudder to think what could possibly be dangerous in your room but not outside.  Don't you mates in Australia have some freaky looking bush spiders or something?  j/k



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
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[Originally posted by Qui-Gon Jinn:]

quote:Originally posted by Qui-Gon Jinn:
I just remembered the exit phase in other words...  I guess it was a dream, or a dream intervowen (did I just dream that word up?) with an OBE

Not necessarily, my friend.  You could have the most vivid, detailed OBE oif your life.....but if it happens in the middle of the night, and you simply fade back to sleep when you're done, even that monumental experience may seem like a simple figment of your imagination!

I'm willing to bet that you did indeed have an OBE, but because you only remember bits and pieces of it, it somehow gets downgraded to just a dream.  I think most people are under the impression that all OBE's are life changing, and that even the slightest OBE symptom (like exiting, returning, etc) will be blatantly obvious to you.  This isn't always the case.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by MartyD:]

quote:Originally posted by MartyD:
Another thing, since I started practising, every now and then I lose some feeling from my legs and they seem to go heavy on thier own with a slight tingling. It only goes when I move my legs. Is that right?

If you were to constantly monitor the condition of your physical body while in a trance state, you will notice a heaviness, yes.  The problem with that, however, is that you're focusing on your physical body!  Most people concentrate inadvertantly on that, and it ends up holding them back.  

For example, whenever I'm exiting the body or whenever I'm returning from a projection, the last thing in my mind is, "Hey, my physical body feels all wierd."  The truth is I never think about my physical body when I am in a trance-like state.  Maybe for the first few minutes I will only to relax the body.  But once I am relaxed, I know that my body will naturally shut down without my help.  After all, it's been doing just fine on it's own for the last 27 years of my life!

So try to only focus on your physical body when it comes to relaxing (or for energy work, if you do that).  Otherwise, once you're comfortable and relaxed, simply focus on NON-physical things, like thoughts, images, quieting your mind, etc.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by SPASTRAL:]

quote:Originally posted by SPASTRAL:
Hi All,
As an alternative to the BW generator, I have an astral.WAV file which I have paid $20 for.  Adrian, is there a possability of hosting such files and utilities here.  This would allow people to get even more from an already brilliant site.  I started a thread and offered people a copy of this, I have already had around 10 emails asking me to forward it on.

How big is the file? Kilobyte-wise?


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Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by Lysear:]

quote:Originally posted by Lysear:
is it not possible though to move out of the immediate area of the physical body where the cord range doesnt effect you as much so you can stay out for a wee bit longer?

Of course it's possible to move away from your physical body.  WHatever gave you the idea that you couldn't?


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Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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I used to tell myself, "When I get out, the first thing I'll do is prove to myself and everyone else that these are real!"  

But then when I found myself projecting for the first time, my outlook changed!  I knew right then and there that I didn't have to seek proof anymore, because I KNEW that they were real.  It's like me trying to convince you that you're awake right now.  It would be somewhat pointless to do!

Then people say, "Well Jeff...don't you want to convince others so THEY know that they're real?"

My answer is, "Are you crazy!?  There is still so much for me to learn and accomplish personally when I am projecting....I'm too busy getting my own questions answered to convince others that my experiences are real.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
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[Originally posted by napoleon:]

quote:Originally posted by napoleon:
Jeff, sorry to disappoint you. I don't watch "Cribs" or "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" - simply I don't have time for this.
I spent almost every evening doing my OOB exercises or listen to a hemi-sync tape.
I am still optimistic about what I am doing, and not giving up, and tomorrow will be my 6.783th attempt. Sometimes in the evening I also read what the masters and ghurus have to say about OOB.

Hi Jan....I'm glad to see that you're still keeping an open mind about it.  You know, the first time I had an OBE was when I stopped trying and just decided to go to sleep.  Ironic, huh?  Maybe you've already done this, but just tell yourself, "Ok Jan, for the next 7 days, I am NOT going to try and OBE.  I'll just read about them and hear from others, but when I lay down at night, I am just trying to go to sleep.  If I catch myself trying to do any techniques for the next 7 days, I will stop."

After all, if you're doing everything that you think is right and you're still not projecting, what could it hurt to try the complete opposite?

quote:
But I love humor (and black humor too) so I will visit your website, it sounds interesting.

Oh, then you'll LOVE MyJokeMail!  Especially the new Kid Drawings section.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com