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When I first projected, recall wasn't a problem at alll. The more I do it, the more difficult it becomes. I tend to forget conversations virtually immediately.

The main problem with memory is that although I remember places I have been to, I never have any idea of the sequence of events taking place; it just becomes this giant chaotic jumble of images.  Very frustrating.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I am a wannabe writer, and from time to time I do "dream" up poems, but with very little recall. Once I even dreamt that I was holding a book in my hand and it had my name on the cover! I remember the design - this colourful print of some kind of tree - and that the title was two women's names "...... and .......". I was reading it and everything - but I couldn't remember any of the content after I woke up!

*SIGH*

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I agree with you on that one. I've been spontaneously projecting since I was young too,  and I've also been making freakishly big strides with my OBEs the last few months (including the difficult acceptance thing!) I've gotten to the point where I know I just need to take a step back and learn how to do it properly - When I'm out, its such chaos!! I have so little control over my movement, recall etc. So I've just been taking it easy... The last few times I've woken with pre-exit symptoms, I've been concentrating on the sensations of my exit and I will just go and sit on the end of the bed for a while, try very hard not to get zapped back in, and try to focus on what is around me.  It's not as exciting as zipping up into the air or flying madly past exciting places, but I figure the astral word is not going anywhere and I do have the rest of my life (for a start) to learn how to experience it properly.

Good luck.

Meg

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

What do you mean by "resistance feeling"? Physical or psychological? I have mixed experiences with the physical... I can go through my window and it's like it isn't there, but then later I might be flying around the backyard and my face will be scratched by a tree - very strange. Anyone have any idea what these inconsistencies might mean?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I just have a question. Does this type of thing happen to many of you when you meditate? I am just starting to learn meditation skills for the first time, and I'm quite eager for my meditation to be a kind of respite from such things! I need a rest! Not only from the noise of my mind and the physical world, but also from the intense learning curve that's going on with my AP - With all the impressions and experiences coming down on me the last few months, I am really feeling a need for total stillness. Is there a difference between meditation and preparing for an OBE?

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

This does sound like a very good idea. My trouble is that I usually project about 1-2 hrs after I fall asleep, and then of course I have to get up to write it all down because otherwise I forget nearly everything... *Sigh* By the time I go back to sleep, I have to get up in a couple of hours. Last night I woke up in the vibrational state, and actually passed it up because I knew I couldn't afford the time! Staggering sleep? Hmm. I'll try it.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Blue Mystic - I hadn't thought of the possibility that she may be an earthbound spirit. I don't feel that's the case, though - did you read my later thread about meeting her in the astral?

Jouni, I have asked her about the "we" - she has told me that there is other spirits guiding me, and that they will reveal themselves to me when the time comes. I get the impression that her job is to help me with my AP more than anything else. I was feeling very confused about what this all means to me in terms of changing my physical world, and she told me that she is here to help me with my exit technique and astral experiences, not to find my wisdom for me. She's very blunt like that - she won't help me make any little silly decisions! Thank you for sharing your lovely poem, by the way.

The business with Minerva... My guide has been teaching me lots of embarressing and humbling lessons about my ego and my impatience, in lots of different ways - Minerva turned out to be one of them.  When I repeated the above prayer and asked specifically for Minerva...What came out of my hand went something like this: I don't want to tell you my story. It is mine, not yours. I've changed my mind, and it isn't my fault." As you can imagine, I was a little disapointed, and a little bit grumpy about it.  Right after, I asked my guide why Minerva wouldn't speak through me, and she basically told me it was her not Minerva, that I shouldn't be so lazy but try to write my own poems and not to attempt these things until I'm at the stage where I can really handle it spiritually.  Then she repeated : "it isn't my fault" (a common justification of mine) I later found out that "Invita Minerva" was an expression used by Roman poets when they had writer's block. Like me. She's a smart cookie, my guide! She must know me really well (duh) because she certainly knows how to teach me a lesson so it gets right under my skin!

I think I really just need to focus on the task at hand, which is to become more proficient at AP, and to use these experiences to find greater connection with the Divine in my daily life.

Meg





"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Douglas - Yeah. I've noticed it's usually about an hour to 90 mins after I first fall asleep. But it's a spontaneous thing that has "just happened" about once or twice a week since I was a teenager (with high and low spots of course) - though having the intention to project and an understanding of the process helps, these days. I didn't even know what it was until a couple of years back.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

James - I'm in Carnegie at the moment (out near Caulfield) but I'm soon planning a move too - going to do the "move to the country thing" in a couple of months - somewhere around Castlemaine we hope.

Jeff and Doug- I know exactly what you mean... I'm just out-of-control out there. I projected last night and called for Simian but she didn't come. I made contact with auto writing this morning and she told me "I was there. You just didn't see me. You need to slow down, Meg. Learn to meditate" I realize this is very possible... I'm not well known for my lack of nervous energy! She also told me that I need to start entering the astral in the spirit of fun and adventure, rather than being so leaden about it. Words of wisdom, perhaps?

Meg




"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Adrian - how do these beings of the elements appear, archetypically?

Meg




"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Thanks for the link, James.

I don't know if I like the idea of a "spiritual high" in place of real worship -  makes me think of those early morning TV evangelists who get people really worked up to no real end (apart from selling their products).  Yuck.  

I'd be interested to go to a service, though, just to check it out. From what I've read, they have many similar beliefs to me. Ah, but I don't know... I find it hard to imagine myself actually doing it...

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi Jenn,

Waking up in the vibrational state is how I acheive a lot of my projections at this stage. I find I can just step, roll, sit, float, shoot out from there...

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

James - I'd love to hear the story of how you met your guide.. if you've made posts, any idea where I might find them?

Douglas- Have you managed to get outside your bedroom window at all? For me, my bedroom window has always acted as a kind of portal out of the RTZ and into the more interesting parts of the astral.  When I am able to get that far (usually after a few shots of buzzing back in), it immediately becomes easier for me to stay out.  

Good luck with your guide stuff!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Frank - I've found  it works both ways,  as long as you are deliberate in directing your question to your guide, instead of it being part of your regular thought process. I usually prefer to write my questions down, though - otherwise there are too many loose answers and clarifications floating around the page, and no context to put them in.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Thank you so much to all of you for your wonderful words of encouragement. It means a lot.

I am feeling so grateful for this experience... Some of you might have read on my other posts about some of the negative experiences I've had in the astral in the past  (the evil demon things, and of course the discovery of my unintentional astral relationship!) ... I can't tell you how good it feels to know that I'm finally on the right path.

Thanks again,

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Sure is, Jeff! I actually put that to her when I was doing the auto writing!.... she wrote: "yes, but its also...." etc about Pantheon. I just hope it's not some kind of sideways insult

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

As an interesting by-note to all this... Simian has spoken to me a couple of times through symbols from Greek and Roman mythology. There was the Pantheon reference above, and she also told me (as I wrote under my auto writing topic a couple of days back) to "receive Minerva. She wants to tell you a story", and I later learned that Minerva was a patron of the arts and "letters". Poets who could not write would "Invita Minerva". (and  I  am a poet who isn't writing. *SIGH*)

Anyway, I've just been having a little search around the net, and I just discovered the story of Hypnos, the God of Sleep. Apparently there were two gates that Hypnos opened - The Gates of Horn, which led towards prophetic dreams, and the Gates of Ivory, which led towards dreams that would deceive. I just wonder if this might be the meaning of this place with the two sets of doors?  

Wow, that's some trippy stuff. If you know anyone who needs some proof that projection isn't "in our minds"...

Meg



"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I would say increased sensitivity is definately is a bi-product of exploring AP.  I think any kind of spiritual development (which is what AP is after all - most of us want to learn and grow from this) winds up bleeding into other areas of life in one way or another.  

Meg



"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Interesting you should bring that up, fredhedd. I am certain I have got her name wrong - though she responds to it when I "call" her. However, she won't tell me what it is right now - says that she wants us to meet "face to face, so to speak". She tells me she has been with me "since you started the night travels" so I think to meet her in the astral is the real point of this.

Lots of interesting things have happened since I made that first post (In fact, I think I'm going a bit overboard... I get this image of her rolling her eyes and saying "It's bloody Meg again!") Yesterday we spoke more about the poetry stuff.
-
Sereerer: Receive Minerva. She wants to tell you a story.

Meg: Who is she?

Sereerer: Friendly spirit. She wants to meet you to share her story.
-
Anyway, I thought this was interesting because my husband remembered Minerva as a character form Roman Mythology. Turns out she is like the greek Athena, who among other things was a patron of poetry and "letters" - particularly of women. It is also the name of a publishing house.

I don't feel ready yet, though...give me a week or two..!

trippy.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Definately. I just did a search on this site to see if anyone else had something to say about this subject...It seems as if the concensus is that automatic writing and ouija board both have pretty bad reputations in terms of attracting negative entities. I don't want to get messed up in anything I don't have full control over. I can see from my previous experiments that this is true ie. one saying they were my dead grandfather; another time I kept getting the words "leave terry" (my husband) over and over.

But given what I explained above, I don't see how this entity could mean me harm - she was so clear about the dangers of automatic writing and about the fact that I need to protect myself from negative entities. I mean, she even gave me a cheeky demonstration of what I could be up against: "My name is not Sereerer, but Satan" !

Thanks for your comments, Rich

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

I've always found it kind of strange when I hear people say that you can't be harmed in the astral. How do they define "harm"? Certainly I haven't heard of anyone being physically harmed, but you can definately do some damage psychologically. Even if it is just that you wind up hampering your growth and potential by being frightened out of experimenting. I've woken up from projections quite distressed on a number of occasions in the past, and this does stay with you in one form or another. And what about more unstable people, who are unable to clearly draw the line between the astral and physical worlds...I am positive this must happen...Surely that could be dangerous in itself? If you go into it unafraid and positive, not so emotional - that is what stops the scary stuff from happening.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

*SIGH*

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Clandestino, I agree with you totally. Since I've been reading up on OBE in my conscious world, I've been MUCH more able to project. Not only that, but each experience has been more valuable to my learning - not so much floundering around! I think it really depends on what kind of person you are. It's like learning anything. Some people need to take careful methodical steps and learn by actually doing it, where other people learn more with their intellect; or through emotions and intuition etc etc. For me, it's always been about my mind. I remember when I was a child learning to skip a rope, I never could learn how to do it by practising - it was when I stood in my bedroom and mentally visualised the process that I taught myself! Silly story, but you get my drift.

Good luck Paukki.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Olly; going back a few posts here...what I meant by saying it sounds like you're going further into the astral..

The way I've experienced it, I started off just being in my room and then started going further and further. At some point a couple of years back I started to jump from my bedroom window (sounds silly when I write it down!)and I wind up in all these wierd and wonderful places. Sometimes they will look as if they were on earth - like, I remember once lying on a stone in what looked to me like the welsh country-side with big fields and the ocean behind me... and other times they don't look so real - I remember once walking on these giant sanddunes by a purple ocean with these strange wispy old men and women wandering lost around me. I can't describe these things other to say that I must be going further into the astral world... beyond the real  time zone. That's what your experiences with the "blue watery place" sound like to me. Which is kind of cool!

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson

Hi Alpha,

I've found that trying to break out of the paralysis just makes it last longer too. What has been working for me is taking the paralysis as a sign that my projection experience isn't actually over. I've found that I can get going again fairly easily from that state, and when it's "time" I wake up quite naturally.

Meg

"...listening like the orange tree..."  - John Shaw Neilson