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Its okay my dearest brother I enjoy speaking with you upon these matters. First of all,

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/03/13/satellite.noahs.ark/index.html

It made top line news for quiet a bit of time and archaeologists are still doing excavations on the site.They linked the sediments of the boat to the ones which are of the "great flood" depicted in the Quran and Bible. It cannot be an ancient myth anymore considering it has been proven true. The ancient myths are a totally different twist to the story line as well although similar which is reasonable considering news would get altered  at such a distant time. I think that ancient peoples would obviously know about such an event, but later on the Quran depicts the events as it is and as archaeologists today have described and looked into it. the whole point of this is to show you the historical truths within such scriptures.

The great flood stories from the Bible and Qur'an are predated by a basic narrative that goes back to one of the earliest written human accounts -- the Sumerian story of Gilgamesh.  There have been several variations of the theme as Hagethruiel has pointed out.

http://gilgamesh.psnc.pl/

http://www.religioustolerance.org/noah_com.htm

I've studied the Hebrew Scriptures in both Hebrew and Greek.  The Hebrews were into good stories to make a point (parable/metaphor), not necessarily stories that were literally true.  That's why there are two conflicting creation stories side by side in Genesis 1 & 2, and also two different Noah stories that have been woven unevenly together.  As far as the Qur'an goes, thus far nothing has convinced me that it's anything more than a creative re-worked version of the Bible.   But that's just my opinion.  I'm always open to convincing arguments to the contrary.  DH

HeHe Read your links again there not reference to the Quran at all but the biblical Hebrew accounts which is a TOTALLY false version of the story of Noah. We as muslims believe that tehre is truth in the bible and even the sumarian beliefs but man corrupted the words of the prophets which descended upon that region itself. The worlds religions were all stepping stones unto the final and perfect way of life given in the Holy Quran, Islam so therefore the similarities between the great flood and the sumarian accounts of it is nothing significant. The significant part of this thread is there was a flood as described in both scriptures and an ark was actually found 400 miles from the site which adds unto the significance. This actually really isn't story telling but its FACT considering everything was archaeologically proven.

Dear MustardSeed. I have read EVERY SINGLE contradicting claims to the holy Quran. I have SPOKEN TO MANY PASTORS whom try to debunk Islamic views or angles of look at things and let me tell you EVERY SINGLE contradiction is simply a manner of misunderstandings. Do not tell me I am rattled because of what I believe or have not seen "truth." I can assure you I've studies such matters, ive studied religions and such things as spiritual or agnostic beliefs of other people and let me tell you my dear dear brother Islam stands the most logical way of living life. EVERYTHING in which the Holy Quran says is compatible with science, and your so called "contradictions"(which you need other websites or articles to debunk ^.- are simply misunderstanding). I can take one word of what you have said and imply hat it is your main central point of your entier posts which is what the people whom create these contradictions do. The point is, Allah sbwt is telling you a story in the Quran, one which you may learn about and you cannot conclude that a verse is a contradiction or error without eeadin the entire chapter to fully understand something.In arabic grammer awe also have words which have various meanings. We can tell what the meaning is by seeing other verses which use the same meaning and see if it seems logical(also we can check some of the authentic hadiths to explain the meaning of the verses). In retrospect, the people whom create these contradictions DONT take these things into account. Believe me my brother, EVERY SINGLE SO CALLED ERROR is a misunderstanding, and even many other religious people conclude that the Quran is indeed a perfect revelation without any error. Please, find me one error which CANNOT BE EXPLAINED? You cannot and this challenge I proposed to you is a challenge Allah sbwt proposes to humanity. God is love God is mercy God is compassion God is the creator God is the just God is the most wise. In islam, we have something known as the 99 names of God which explain the almighty creators attributes. LOVE is a name of his attributes MERCY is a name of his attributes and even a name for Allah sbwt which we call upon to express our love to him. Read the intelligent design theory which was released by scientists a couple of years ago. The theory itself states many differnt angles stating THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR LIFE TO HAVE BEEN CREATED WITHOUT AN INTELLIGENT DESIGN TO HAVE INTERVENED IN IT. Allah sbwt says in the holy Quran that he is the originator of the heavens and earth, he also says " Verily we have split the universe asunder and bound it together" he then says "Then he made the universe into a mas of smoke" then he says "Oh mankind it is we who have constructed the universe with might and surely we are steadily expanding it"

Summarizing the most accepted theory for the universe coming into existence, it states that the universe was first a sum of quarks and particles which were colliding with one another releasing bounds of energy these particles formed different masses of matter everywhere, eventually a force(we now know as gravity) bound all these masses together into one MASSIVE MASS known as the universe, scientists say that this mass was simply a mass of dust and smoke billions of years of expansion and collection of these smoke particles through gravity formed planets and stars forming what we now know as the "universe." Can you not see the Quran CLEARLY states this? Allah sbwt SHOWS YOU how he created life in stages. Also, one thing you must understand is if God said in the Quran THE UNIVERSE WAS THE SHAPE OF A DUCK, do you think scientists nowadays will believe in it? Now put yourself in the shoes of people thousands of years ago whom first heard the quran, if allah clearly goes out telling people in depthly about creation the typical arab man would not agree with it because there own "scientific" beliefs are contrary to what the Quran will say even though thousands of years later the quran will be proven.

Now that I explained God is indeed real! I will tell you about the mercy of Allah sbwt   you see my brother, for me to tell you everyone who disbelieves in the holy Quran  is going to hell or YOUR GOING TO HELL is ABSOLUTELY against my own religion. Allah sbwt tells us that it is he who judges mankind NOT MAN WHO JUDGES MAN. God judges man by his intentions and the depths of mans hearts.   I don't see why you disagree with Islamic justice... I mean, don't you think raping is terrible? Or murder is terrible? giving poor is the way of the pious man? Helping another brother or sister is something which we all need to perform? Uniting together? Spreading peace and harmony? Allah sbwt says in the Quran "He has created you in groups so you may learn to live among eachother" also, speaking about other peoples beliefs he says " Come to common grounds with them" THE BEST WAY TO UNITE people of other beliefs it simply to come to common grounds with them show similarities of one another.

The mercy if allah:

"Whoever is not merciful towards people, will not be treated mercifully by Allah."

"...And My mercy embraces all things..."

"And has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth; it is all as a favor and kindness from Him."

"...Those who repent and believe, and do righteous deeds, for those, Allah will change their sins into good deeds..."


Allahs mercy is witness to his own glorification. In fact Allah sbwt punishes those who are unjust and disbelieve in him. My brother, This life was created as a test for humanity, for us to learn from. Allah sbwt created sin in order for man to learn from his sin and turn to his path and this is a natural part of our creation. We have all had those moments of reality where your real to yourself and those who perform horrific sins encounter these realities about themselves. I mean the alcoholic eventually digs himself a hole which is a sign from allah sbwt showing the alcoholic the effects of alcohol and in retrospect helping him turn to his path. I have come here to deliver the message to you and it is your choice to accept and reject it but only Allah knows what is my path in the hereafter and what is yours  I hope I helped explain your questions. If you accept Allah as ONE GOD, if you love humanity, if you give to the poor,respect your brothers and sisters, then my brother you are a one who submitts himself to the will of allah sbwt(a muslim) this is the entire message of Islm. We don;t ask you to go outside and bomb yourself, or to beat yourself, or to shave your head.. We ask you to simply embrace love for your people and your own lord.


I hope I answered your questions.

Peace and blessings be upon you.

I was asked by a member of this site to start this thread and discuss or compare the stories that exist in the Quran as well as in the Bible. There are three stories that exist in both Holy Books. They are – the story of creation, great Flood and the Exodus. However, if you believe these stories are complete myth, then I do not see the point of you posting here. Simply because we cannot prove whether they really happened or not; technology did not exist to record these events. Therefore, believers of religions can only believe in these stories and we should respect their choice. All we can do is... compare these stories and may be decide which version is more reliable. Please note that this thread is not about "God's existence" or "religion being a myth".

Example- For the sake of argument, we say the Flood did occur. However, which version is more reliable or how did the Flood really occur? So here, we can look at both versions of the same stories and give our views.



The Great Flood: Biblical Narration

If we look at the story of Flood in the Bible in the light of modern knowledge, the story is not unacceptable. Because:

1. The Old Testament mainly speaks of a universal catastrophe (Great Flood).
2. Paragraphs from the Yahvist text do not provide a date for the Flood. Even though another Biblical text - the Sacerdotal text – provides a timeline for the event but such cataclysm could not have been occurred at that time.

The sacerdotal text makes it clear that when the Flood occurred, Noah was 600 years old. According to the genealogies in chapter 5 of Genesis, we know that Noah is said to have been born 1056 years after Adam. Consequently, the Flood would have taken place 1655 years after the creation of Adam. The genealogical table of Abraham moreover, taken from the same text and given in Genesis (11, 10-32), allows us to estimate that Abraham was born 292 years after the Flood. As we know that (according to the Bible) Abraham was alive in roughly 1850 BC, the Flood would therefore be situated in the Twenty-first or Twenty-second century BC. This calculation is in strict keeping with the information in old editions of the Bible, which figures prominently at the head of the Biblical text. This was at a time when the lack of human knowledge on the subject was such that the chronological data contained in the Bible were accepted without question by its readers.

Today, it is impossible to imagine a universal catastrophe that took place in the Twenty-first or Twenty-second century BC, which destroyed life on all the earth's surface (except for the people and animals in the Ark)? By this time, civilization had flourished around the globe. Therefore, it is impossible for a Flood to have been occurred in that time and one cannot imagine Noah traveling the world to find species. How big was the Ark then?



Quranic Narration

The Quran gives a general version that is different from the Biblical version and does not give rise to any criticisms from a historical point of view. It does not provide continuous narration of the Flood. Numerous Quranic chapters talk of the punishment inflicted upon Noah's people. The most complete account of this is chapter 11, verses 25 to 49. Before going into the actual course taken by events, we must consider the Flood as described in the Quran by relating it to the general context of the punishment God inflicted on communities guilty of gravely infringing His Commandments.

This may be seen in chapter 25, verses 35 to 39...

"We (Allah) gave Moses the Scripture and appointed his brother Aaron with him as vizier. We said: Go to the people who have denied Our signs. We destroyed them completely. When the people of Noah denied the Messengers, We drowned them and We made of them a sign for the mankind. (We destroyed the tribes) of Ad and Tamud, the companions of Rass and many generations between them. We warned each of them by examples and We annihilated them completely".

Chapter 7, verses 59 to 93 contains a remainder of the punishments brought upon Noah's people, the Ad, the Tahmud, Lo and Median respectively.


Thus, the Quran presents the cataclysm of the Flood as a punishment specifically intended for Noah's people: this is the first basic difference between the two narrations. The second fundamental difference is that the Quran, in contrast to the Bible, does not date the Flood in time and gives no indication as to the duration of the cataclysm itself. Throughout the Quran, only Noah's people has been connected to the Flood, not the entire world.

The reason why I find Quranic explanation more reliable than the Biblical explanation...

1. The Biblical story has two versions and the erroneous timeline simply makes it even more unreliable.
2. It is impossible to imagine Noah collecting species from the entire world and putting them on Ark. It's an unimaginable task even for a Prophet since Noah could not show miracles. But if we look at the Quranic narration, it is possible that Noah only collected species from the area he lived in since only his people were punished.



http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/09/13/great.flood.finds.ap/index.html

Jesus isn't a myth I believe Jesus received gods true Word and he taught mankind but JESUS IS NOT GOD NOR IS HE THE SON OF GOD. He is simply a teacher, whom teaches the way to live life accordingly to mankind and the decent of Jesus was mercy upon mankind. History shows us that the word in which Jesus preached has been changed and altered through ought time forming the modern version of Christianity. Muhammad received the final revelation from God forming the last religion. a religion uniting humanity to submit themselves to ONE God worthy of worship. A religion which unites humanity to view each other as brothers and sisters. This rendition of the story of Jesus is indeed compatible with history.

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QURAN AND ALL CREATION IN PAIRS

INTRODUCTION
It is my observation that some Islamists, particularly those who are Western-educated, strive to prove the validity of the Quran through supposed scientific miracles enclosed therein. Typically, they quote 'vague' verses amenable to multiple interpretations and then choose the few interpretations to suit their aims. Some of these are even quite convincing, particularly when articulated by knowledgeable Islamists and where absolute proof is impossible due to the nature of the question.

This article seeks to debunk just one of these claims, which is the claim that Allah created all creatures in pairs, male and female.


013.003
Yusuf Ali: And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!
Pickthal: And He it is Who spread out the earth and placed therein firm hills and flowing streams, and of all fruits He placed therein two spouses (male and female). He covereth the night with the day. Lo! herein verily are portents for people who take thought.
Shakir: And He it is Who spread the earth and made in it firm mountains and rivers, and of all fruits He has made in it two kinds; He makes the night cover the day; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.
Sher Ali: And HE it is Who spread out the earth and made therein mountains and rivers, and of fruits of every kind HE made therein two sexes. HE causes the night to cover the day. Therein, verily, are Signs for a people who reflect.
Wahuwa allathee madda al-arda wajaAAala feeha rawasiya waanharan wamin kulli alththamarati jaAAala feeha zawjayni ithnayni yughshee allayla alnnahara inna fee thalika laayatin liqawmin yatafakkaroona


036.036
Yusuf Ali: Glory to God, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge.
Pickthal: Glory be to Him Who created all the sexual pairs, of that which the earth groweth, and of themselves, and of that which they know not!
Shakir: Glory be to Him Who created pairs of all things, of what the earth grows, and of their kind and of what they do not know.
Sher Ali: Holy is HE Who created all things in pairs, of what the earth grows and of themselves, and of what they know not.
Subhana allathee khalaqa al-azwaja kullaha mimma tunbitu al-ardu wamin anfusihim wamimma la yaAAlamoona


043:012
Yusuf Ali: That has created pairs in all things, and has made for you ships and cattle on which ye ride,
Pickthal: He Who created all the pairs, and appointed for you ships and cattle whereupon ye ride.
Shakir: And He Who created pairs of all things, and made for you of the ships and the cattle what you ride on,
Sher Ali: And Who has created pairs of all things, and has made for you ships and cattle whereon you ride,
Waallathee khalaqa al-azwaja kullaha wajaAAala lakum mina alfulki waal-anAAami ma tarkaboona


051.049
Yusuf Ali: And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.
Pickthal: And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect.
Shakir: And of everything We have created pairs that you may be mindful.
Sher Ali: And of everything have WE created pairs that you may reflect.
Wamin kulli shay-in khalaqna zawjayni laAAallakum tathakkaroona


Please note that due to the 'richness of the Arabic language' and because Allah made the Quran 'clear and easy to understand', some Islamists may try to argue that at least some of these verses do not convey the message that 'ALL CREATURES' are created in pairs, taking the literal or metaphorical sense whichever and whenever suits them best.

For example, a disingenuous Islamist may claim that verse 13:3 refers only to FRUITS, or that verse 36:36 refers only to things grown from the Earth (i.e. plants). However verses 43:12 and 51:49 make it absolutely clear that Allah created ALL CREATURES in pairs. There is no ambiguity.

I will ignore the following verses, recognizing the possibility of relevance solely to humans. Further, their inclusion does not detract from my arguments.
"That He did create in pairs,- male and female, (The Noble Quran, 53:45)"
"And of him He made two sexes, male and female. (The Noble Quran, 75:39)"
"By (the mystery of) the creation of male and female; (The Noble Quran, 92:3)"


The Islamists Case

http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_1_50/all_things_in_pair.htm

PAIRS IN LIVING THINGS
One of the most recent of all scientific discoveries is that everything in the universe exists in pairs such as male and female among living things. Now we find that rock crystals also have pairs.

The Qur'an says: And of everything We have created pairs: That ye may receive Instruction.

Surah Zariyat, 51: 49 A. Yusuf All in note 5025 item (3) says " All things are in twos: sex in plants and animals, by which one individual is complementary to another; in the subtle forces of nature. Day and Night, positive and negative electricity, forces of attraction and repulsion: and numerous other opposites, each fulfilling its purpose, and contributing to the working of God's Universe; and in the moral and spiritual world. Love and Aversion, Mercy and Justice, Striving and Rest, and so on;-all fulfilling their functions according to the Artistry and wonderful Purpose of God. Everything has its counterpart, or pair, or complement. God alone is One, with none like Him, or needed to complement Him. These are noble things to contemplate. And they lead us to a true understanding of God's Purpose and Message."

http://www.science4islam.com/html/sci-04e.html...we find in the following verse more generalizations where Allah Says; (And of everything we have created pairs, that ye may receive instruction). The word "thing we together with the people who preceded us have understood it to be inclusive to contain humans, plants and animals. Since the Quran has included them all in this verse and told us that all creatures were made up of males and females.

http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf
PLANTS CREATED IN PAIRS, MALE AND FEMALE
Previously humans did not know that plants too have male and female gender distinctions. Botany states that every plant has a male and female gender. Even the plants that are unisexual have distinct elements of both male and female. "'And has sent Down water from the sky.' With it have We produced Diverse pairs of plants Each separate from the others." [Al- Qur'aan 20:53]

FRUITS CREATED IN PAIRS, MALE AND FEMALE
"And fruit Of every kind He made In pairs, two and two." [Al-Qur'aan
13:3]
Fruit is the end product of reproduction of the superior plants. The stage
preceding fruit is the flower, which has male and female organs (stamens and ovules). Once pollen has been carried to the flower, they bear fruit, which in turn matures and frees its seed. All fruits therefore imply the existence of male and female organs; a fact that is mentioned in the Qur'aan.
In certain species, fruit can come from non-fertilized flowers (parthenocarpic fruit) e.g. bananas, certain types of pineapple, fig, orange, vine, etc. They also have definite sexual characteristics.

EVERYTHING MADE IN PAIRS
"And of everything We have created pairs." [Al-Qur'aan 51:49]
This refers to things other than humans, animals, plants and fruits. It may also be referring to a phenomenon like electricity in which the atoms consist of negatively – and positively – charged electrons and protons.

"Glory to Allah, Who created In pairs all things that The earth produces,
as well as Their own (human) kind And (other) things of which They
have no knowledge." [Al-Qur'aan 36:36]
The Qur'aan here says that everything is created in pairs, including things that the humans do not know at present and may discover later.


MATTER AND ANTIMATTER
Some Islamists claim the mere existence of antimatter complements to matter, without regard to their relative abundance (matter dominates in our universe after the first second post the Big Bang) proves the validity of the 'creation in pairs' verses, particularly 43:12, 51:49, and especially 36:36 (as in "pairs of things unknown to them"). The 'things unknown to them' part supposedly refers to our modern understanding of particle physics.

The British physicist Paul Dirac, who discovered that matter was created in pairs, won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1933. This finding, known as "parity," revealed the duality known as matter and antimatter. Antimatter bears the opposite characteristics to matter. For instance, contrary to matter, antimatter electrons are positive and protons negative.

An Islamist making this sort of claim is Osama Abdallah of Answering-Christianity.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/john_wuurt.htm


Rebutting the Islamists Case
The case against the Quran and the Islamists is really very simple. All one has to do is to show that not all creatures are 'created' in pairs. My opinion is that Muhammad, didn't have access to a microscope or a good Level 1 biology textbook. Therefore, he couldn't have known about asexual organisms, parthenogenetic organisms, or hermaphrodites.

It was all too easy for Muhammad to observe male and female humans, camels, dogs, and even devils, jinns, and angels. But as he had no idea about micro-organisms and herpetology he was unaware that he was mistaken in his belief that all creatures came in males and females.

The alternative theses are also interesting: either Allah forgot He created asexual, parthenogenetic, and hermaphroditic organisms; Allah forgot to tell Jibreel; Jibreel didn't listen to Allah; or Jibreel forgot to tell Muhammad.

Given this glaring mistake that all creatures are created in (male-female) pairs it is clear that Muhammad made up the Quran.

1. The Quran leaves out asexual organisms.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sex1.htm
Asexual reproduction is found in the majority of living organisms, including most plants, protists (e.g. bacteria, protozoans, and unicellular algae and fungi), and many lower invertebrates such as tapeworms.

Other examples of asexual reproductive organisms are hydrae and many lower plants (e.g. ferns). Some organisms are also capable of regeneration, a specialized form of asexual reproduction, for example starfish, polyps, zebrafish, flatworms, newts, and salamanders. Many plants are capable of total regeneration. Among animals, the lower the form, the more capable it is of total regeneration; no vertebrates have this power (except artificially in the lab). Regeneration is closely allied to vegetative reproduction, the formation of a new individual by various parts of the organism not specialized for reproduction. The highest animals that exhibit vegetative reproduction are the colonial tunicates (e.g. sea squirts), which, much like plants, send out runners in the form of stolons, small parts of which form buds that develop into new individuals.

(Note that hydra and jellyfish and many primarily asexual organisms are also capable of sexual reproduction – however many simple organisms like bacterial, yeasts and Fungi Imperfecti are totally asexual).


2. The Quran leaves out hermaphrodites.
Some creatures, including plants, are totally hermaphrodites. For example, sponges, snails, the slug-like sea hare, and some kinds of deep-sea arrow worms are hermaphrodites, that is, they have both sexes in one body.

Some creatures also change their sex during their life-cycles: Quahogs (hard-shell clams) are born and grow up male, but later half of them turn female. Slipper shells and cup and saucer shells do this too; they commence every season as males, but nearly all of them later pass through a phase of ambisexuality and turn into adult females. Some species change sex depending on their environment, such as the marine worm Ophryotrocha, if the portly young females are later underfed they revert back into males again. Some fish can also change sex spontaneously, for example some groupers and guppies.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/sex2.htm#s5

Some Islamists may try to claim that hermaphrodites are actually a male-female pair as both sexes are included in the one organism. It may be that in a population some hermaphrodites act as males while others act as females. This Islamist claim, of course, would be totally dishonest as a hermaphrodite, by definition, is both male and female at once, even if performing one of its sexual functions at the one time.


3. The Quran leaves out parthenogenetic organisms.
Parthenogenesis is a form of reproduction in which the ovum develops into a new individual without fertilization. Natural parthenogenesis has been observed in many lower animals (it is characteristic of the rotifers), especially insects, e.g., the aphid. In many social insects, such as the honeybee and the ant, the unfertilized eggs give rise to the male drones and the fertilized eggs to the female workers and queens.

Note that the aphids, bees and ants are not true parthenogenetic organisms as they are also capable of sexual reproduction.

However, Muhammad apparently didn't know about the 15 species of whiptail lizard (genus Cnemidophorus) that are wholly parthenogenetic, for example Cnemidophorus tigris (Western whiptail) and C. neomexicanus, nor did he know about the Ambystomids, the unisexual hybrid salamanders.

http://members.aol.com/Attic21/CreatureofDay/whip.html

He also didn't know about the Island or Brahminy Blind Snake, Ramphotyphlops braminus, the only parthenogenetic snake in the world which happens to originate from the Pacific Islands (lands unknown to Arabs in Muhammad's time).


4. The Chinese Yin-Yang duality concept.
Islamists claim the Quran's 'creation in pairs' verses, especially 36:36 refers to our modern understanding of matter antimatter complements. Some critics respond by highlighting the relative paucity of antimatter compared to matter, particularly as most antimatter was destroyed in the first second after the Big Bang. http://www.answer-islam.org/earth_in_islam.htm

Nevertheless, some Islamist might claim that the mere fact that antimatter exists proves the Quranic 'creation in pairs' verses to be miraculous as how could a seventh century bandit know about matter antimatter?

Unfortunately for the Islamist polemicists, the ancient Chinese already believed in the duality of all creation. This duality principle is known as 'Yin and Yang', part of the Taoist belief system. The date of origin of the Yin-Yang duality principle is unknown, however all reasonable estimates predate Islam by at least two thousand five hundred years. {Note the Yin-Yang symbol dates back to at least 400BC and was present in ancient Shang Dynasty Bronze but the Yin-Yang principle dated much earlier.}

Quote:
The Yellow Emperor, legendary Chinese emperor and cultural hero ruling from 2698 BC to 2598 BC and considered to be the ancestor of the Han Chinese, said "The principle of Ying and Yang is the foundation of the entire universe. It underlies everything in creation. It brings about the development of parenthood; it is the root and source of life and death...

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~maa1/chi/philos/yinyangsymbol.htm

These quotes about Yin-Yang show that it may be extended to matter antimatter complements:
Quote:
Counterparts and conflicting opposites, they complemented each other in the formation of a creative force whose products were heaven and earth with its fruits. 

http://religion-cults.com/Eastern/Taoism/taoism.htm

Quote:
According to the theoretical physics developed in the twentieth century the principle of Yin Yang and the use of paradox persist; when there is matter there must also be antimatter. 

http://home.iprimus.com.au/btheos/articles/AncientChineseWisdom-1.htm

Thus, it is hardly miraculous for the Quran to claim 'creation in pairs' of all things known and unknown when the ancient Chinese already believed in a remarkably similar duality principle at least two thousand years before Islam.


4. The Rig Veda.

Islamists are not unique among religious polemicists who reinterpret ancient scriptures in the light of modern science. Dr Raja Ram Mohan Roy, a physical scientist, in "VEDIC PHYSICS: Scientific Origin of Hinduism; Golden Egg Publishing" makes such a claim that the Rig Veda already presaged the modern scientific understanding of matter antimatter complements.

http://www.rameshnrao.com/religion-philosophy-re-reading-the-rig-veda.html
http://www.indiastar.com/closepet5.html

Quote:
Thus the contracting universe is "Martanda", the living universe Vivasvana, the first pair of particle and anti-particle (matter and antimatter) are "Yama" and "Manu", the early part of the universe when the surface tension was the most important force constraining the expansion of the universe the battle between these two forces is the immortalized epic battle of Indra and Vrtra.


It is also claimed that the Purusha sukta from Yajuraranayaka (3:13, 33& 34) alluded to antimatter, dark matter and black holes. http://www.sulekha.com/blogs/blogdisplay.aspx?cid=2908



CONCLUSION
Therefore, based on the existence of asexual, hermaphroditic and parthenogenetic organisms, the Quranic verses about Allah creating ALL CREATURES in pairs (male and female) is debunked. The ancient Chinese Yin-Yang duality principle proves that the any spurious Islamist claim of 'creation in pairs' to mean matter antimatter complements to be unremarkable. Besides, some Hindus make similar claims about the Rig-Veda as the Islamists make about the Quran about scriptural allusions to matter and antimatter.
_________________

Salam ou alakoum, nice attempt to debunk these so called contradictions but after reading them I found it quiet hilarious and rather offensing. First of all, the term used islamists can clearly show you that the writer of the article is inevitably a moron. I will explain each part little by little,excuse me if everything is not explained but I will get to it, remember I have a life to live as well especially considering my gr 11 math exam is tomorow.


Firstly,


Here are three translations of Noble Verse 51:49:

YUSUF ALI: "And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction."

PICKTHAL: "And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect."

SHAKIR: "And of everything We have created pairs that you may be mindful."

We know from elementary particle physics that EVERY THING,or EVERYTHING, depending on the translation used, that is visible or invisible to the naked eyes, is made up of matter (or antimatter), which is in turn made up of particles.  We also know that for EVERY TYPE of particle there is an antiparticle.  This is one possible explanation on how "OF every thing" or "OF everything", we get pairs: Particles and antiparticles.

"All things" or "everything" , can be seen as belonging to one those groups: Particles or their corresponding antiparticles, such as a proton and an antiproton (same mass but of opposite electric charge), an electron and a positron (same mass but of opposite electric charge), a neutron and an antineutron, and more recently scientists have known about quarks, and anti-quarks!

Here is a link for a proof of what i am saying (it is quite technical, from Stanford University):

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/theory/antiquarks.html   

In the Standard Model of elementary particles, the photon acts as its own antiparticle.   The photon and its antiparticle cancel itself out when phase relations oppose (the wave form is opposite to that of another photon).  Another example of a particle being the same as its antiparticle is the phi meson which consist of the antiquark and the quark.   It is possible that in the future physicists will find new particles.  There is research going on to discover the particles that make up dark matter.  As much as 90%, if not more, of matter is believed to be invisible in the universe.

Another theory called Superstring theory, which incorporates the concept superpartners and supersymmetry, states that every particle has a corresponding partner particle.   In that scenario, for example, the partner particle of the photon would be the photino, the partner particle of the electron would be the selectron, for the quark there would be the squark, and for the graviton (which mediates the force of gravity), there would be the gravitino.



Elementary particles would be made from two type of strings, open or closed.   Physicists theorize that these superpartner particles are much more massive than their partner particles (up to 1,000 GeV (billion electron volts) compare to about 1 GeV for the proton).  This could explain why no supersymmetric particles have been discovered, yet.  Particle accelerators are presently not powerful enough to re-create the conditions that would allow us to produce such particles.  Such conditions are thought to be similar to those which existed just after the Big Bang.   A particle accelerator called Large Hadron Collider is now under construction in Geneva, Switzerland.  It will not be operational until 2005, if everything goes well.  Superpartner particles are also possible candidates for the composition of dark matter.

So, "every thing" or "everything" could refer to "matter"and "antimatter", or particle and their supersymmetric particles, as one possible explanation.  There might be other explanations to this verse that we still have not thought about, or don't know about yet.  Our knowledge today will not be similar to the knowledge we will have in the future.  Of course, scientists, including physicists, are still doing a lot of research, and in the future, God willing, this verse will be fully explained in the light of our then newly acquired knowledge.  Let us remember that in the 7th century, the Glorious Qur'an mentioned the expansion of the universe, a fact that was verified only some 1400 years after the Noble Qur'an was revealed.  So, it could possibly take another 100 years, 1400 years, or maybe more, before this verse is fully understood.

As for gravity, here is an interesting link from Princeton University Press:

http://www.princeton.edu/pr/news/99/q2/0527-gravity.htm   

There is still a lot to learn about the physical world, and to think otherwise is limiting oneself!  I chose a scientific approach to try to explain this verse, and both the Standard Model, and the Superstring theory should not be considered as the only way of understanding this verse.  As I said before, there might be other nonscientific explanation that are not known to us so far, and our scientific knowledge today is limiting our full comprehension of the meaning of this verse from the Glorious Qur'an.

The interpretation of the Qur'an by brother Yusuf Ali is not the ONLY interpretation.   Nowhere in this verse does Allah Almighty say that "pairs" refers to animals or human beings, or other sexual beings, such as plants. 

This verse present no contradictions.  And God, the Most Wise, knows best.  Also, if you do consider the hermaphrodites and other types of species which do not need a partner to reproduce does not mean that god didn't create it in pairs. Where does allah sbwt say, he created ALL MALE SPECIES WITH A FEMALE or vice versa? No he never says this. He says,

"And of everything We have created pairs"

Immediately, we note that there is no mention in the verse of male and female, but of 'pairs'. Moreover, the word 'everything' clearly indicates that God is speaking of everything in the universe and not just species of plants.  So what is this universal arrangement by which everything is created in pairs?



http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/Internal/contexinter.html

This will explain the nature of the Quranic language and how the grammer and things are set up.


Uhhh.. The person who wrote your article(im guessing its from answeringislam , clearly has no idea about the ying yang symbols...
 
Conclusion:
In retrospect your so called contradiction, is mereley a way to twist a quranic verse and imply it as something in which it isn't. Allah simply says he created everything in pairs NOT in sexual pairs or anything as that matter.

Thank you

My dear Jeehad

Salam alaykum

It s not my intent to destroy your faith so forgive me if my postings offend you. Do not however expect that your claims will go uncontested in this day and age. This is not the mosque nor are you, in the eyes of the AP posters an authority. Your claims are to most of us ridiculous at the least, and not worthy of serious thought. I am not faulting you for your faith but for your claim that YOUR FAITH CAN BE SCIENTIFICALLY PROVED.

Get a grip my friend. As far as the YOUTUBE clip it is absurd to use a Pakistani speaking man as a proof of anything. Don't you get it.........

Anyway my posts say it all, if you do not agree with the Hadith ........tell me. Is the Hadith an authority or not?

Regards Mustardseed

PS I am well versed in the Koran, not only that but I have lived decades in Muslim contries, under Muslim law, and have fought for your freedom to believe what you believe. Do not however lay claim to all truth under the guise of science. Your faith is just that, a faith, a belief system nothing that can be proven nothing unquestionable. A FAITH thats all

If this does not convince you, and I believe it probably won't google this      koran science debunked

Here is one such hit   http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6713

Salam ou alakoum, First and foremost I never said I dont believe in the Hadiths. I simply said that I don't beleive in non authentic ones which do not have a reliable source.I asked you to bring up errors in the Holy Quran which we consider as the divien revelation of God almighty. First of all, Please instead of giving me a website full of "scientific errors" i'd rather have you explain them or post them one by one.  The website  with "errors" which you have linked up is absolutely absurd. EVERY one of those errors is a simple misunderstanding of arabic grammer,translation or wording. You post a so called contradiction in the Holy Quran(murky water) and you get angry when I post a youtube link of a doctor explaining the "error," .......... I am simply TELLING YOU and the rest of this community that it is VERY sifnificant that Muhammed predicted Future events, that God placed thousands(not 1 or 2 but THOUSANDs) OF SCIENTIFIC SIGNS, HUNDREDS OF MATHEMATICAL SIGNS, THOUSANDS of historical signs. DEspite all this you assume they were all guesswork? Or mistranlation?  Please I find this a pretty significant phenomenon indeed.

This is taken from a jewish newspaper:

TEL AVIV, ISRAEL - At the recent Israeli colloquium on science and religion, Dr. Shlomi Lesser of Hebrew University, and the Chairman of the Hofesh V'Mada Society (a stalwart for deeply skeptical Israeli scientists), led a heated debate between biologists and ultra-orthodox Rabbis on the origins of life. Many of the spectators, including those of a deeply religious stance, came away with the feeling that the Rabbis had not done very well against their "Epicurean" counterparts.

The hi-light of the evening came when Dr. Lesser engaged in a one-on-one question exchange with Rabbi Dovid Brown of Yeshiva University. At one point Dr. Lesser asked R. Brown how tall the first man was, to which the esteemed Rabbi replied "he was roughly the size of an average man according to chazal [Jewish sages]." From there Dr. Lesser revealed that genetic research has revealed that the human race coming from a single pair of parents is impossible in light of the biological bottle-neck [a term for the strain put on successive generations by inbreeding] they would have to travel through.

"Our research, in conjunction with the research of other respected institutions around the world, has demonstrated that the entire human population descending from a single pair of human ancestors is highly unlikely." stated Dr. Lesser. "It would seem that the traditional view of groups, not individuals, evolving has been corroborated; the only way man could descend from a single pair (rather than from an entire group of transitional hominids) is if the original pair were literally giants in the pre-nutrition age."

As Dr. Lesser pointed out, prior to the breakthroughs in nutrition that took place in the 17th and 18th centuries, genetic evidence revealed that man would have been shrinking if he came from a single human ancestor. His calculations revealed that in order for the human race to reach the state it was in during the 17th century, the "Adam and Eve" story would only be plausible if the first man was 90 feet tall (which is fantastic to say the least). "There is no other way man could traverse the genetic bottleneck" Dr. Lesser again said. "If Adam was the size of any other man according to the learned Rabbis of the Jewish religion, this demonstrates an obvious absurdity to this myth."



http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e93.html

I don't want to rain on your parade but the idea that a child develops in the womb is not a groundbreaking sceintific discovery..

It seems like you read the VERY first scientific sign then stopped from there Let me assure you the Quran states over a Thousand scientific signs. So if its really a guess im assuming Muhammad guessed things over a thousand times correctly? Actually, Child birth was very new to human beings. Unless Muhammad had a microscope or a telescope hidden he couldn't have forged it in the Quran:P The Quran is the divine word of god directly without any human intervention. Take a read you will find it quiet fascinating

My first argument would go something like this.

If we follow your line of arguments, Muhammad was having a revelation from God because he foresaw certain scientific issues. However he was not the only one who "saw" the future and who did not believe that "the earth was flat". Many folks did.

It is in my opinion illogical to alledge, that just because certain statements,  later to be confirmed as fact, are found in the  pages of the Koran, it is subsequently written by God.

If that was the case anyone who makes statements, not presently understood by the masses, would be another Mohammad. Bill Gates, Einstein, Hawkins etc etc all have made statements later to be confirmed as facts, they would fall in this category.

The ability to forsee the future, then becomes the definition of a Miracle and a subsequent connection to God.

Regards Mustardseed 

Sorry for the huge chain of posts, but i think if all the posts were rammed together into one people would freak out and not read them:P Refer to my first post explaining the scientific history of civilizations, also please note that Mohammad was illiterate he was not learned in science nor could he read or write. So the question is brought up! How could Muhammad have known such things, which is another reason people converted to Islam during this period.

[One of the questions which puzzled the ancient Arabs was, "Where did the sun go when night time came?" The Qur'an gave them Allah's answer.He [i.e. Zul-qarnain] followed, until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it set in a spring of murky water.(Surah XVIII ( Kahf) vs. 85-86) We agree with Muslim scholars that Zul-qarnain refers to Alexander the Great (see Yusuf Ali's appendix on this subject in his translation of the Qur'an). According to this surah, Alexander the Great traveled west until he found out what happened to the sun. It went down into and under the murky waters of a pond. When it was completely covered by the water, darkness fell upon the earth.To the early Muslims, this surah gave the divine answer as to why darkness fell when the sun set in the West. They assumed that the sun, like the moon, was the size perceived by the human eye, about the size of a basketball. Darkness came when with a mighty hissing roar it went down under the dark waters of a pond. They boldly and proudly proclaimed that this marvelous answer proved that the Qur'an was indeed the Word of God.Today, modern Muslims are quite embarrassed by this passage and try to ignore it or to quickly dismiss it as poetry. But the passage is not part of a poem. Thus it cannot be dismissed as figurative language or poetic license. In the context, it is part of a historical narrative which relates several historical incidences in the life of Alexander the Great.The mistake was based on the erroneous assumption that the earth was flat. The authors of the Qur'an did not know that the earth was a sphere which revolved around the sun.The reader must ask himself if he is prepared to believe and to defend the Qur'an in this passage. Either the sun sets in a pond or it doesn't. It is either one way or the other. There can be no middle ground, no compromise, no evading the issue. If you agree with us that the sun is shining on the other side of the earth and thus it does not go down into murky water, then you must also agree with us that the Qur'an contains scientific errors."So what?" you ask. "Who cares!" you cry. Only those who are brave enough to seek the truth will care. Those who are intellectually lazy or dishonest will close their eyes and pretend to see nothing.It only takes one error to disprove the Qur'an. That's right. Just one little error and the whole book goes down in defeat! You have just discovered one irrefutable error in the Qur'an. What are you going to do about it?]

My second line of argument is the following. If there is error in the scientific signs you claim the Koran contains, it is subsequently a fallacy. Consider this argument found at Chick publications.



One of the questions which puzzled the ancient Arabs was, "Where did the sun go when night time came?" The Qur'an gave them Allah's answer.

He [i.e. Zul-qarnain] followed, until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it set in a spring of murky water.
(Surah XVIII ( Kahf) vs. 85-86)

We agree with Muslim scholars that Zul-qarnain refers to Alexander the Great (see Yusuf Ali's appendix on this subject in his translation of the Qur'an). According to this surah, Alexander the Great traveled west until he found out what happened to the sun. It went down into and under the murky waters of a pond. When it was completely covered by the water, darkness fell upon the earth.

To the early Muslims, this surah gave the divine answer as to why darkness fell when the sun set in the West. They assumed that the sun, like the moon, was the size perceived by the human eye, about the size of a basketball. Darkness came when with a mighty hissing roar it went down under the dark waters of a pond. They boldly and proudly proclaimed that this marvelous answer proved that the Qur'an was indeed the Word of God.

Today, modern Muslims are quite embarrassed by this passage and try to ignore it or to quickly dismiss it as poetry. But the passage is not part of a poem. Thus it cannot be dismissed as figurative language or poetic license. In the context, it is part of a historical narrative which relates several historical incidences in the life of Alexander the Great.

The mistake was based on the erroneous assumption that the earth was flat. The authors of the Qur'an did not know that the earth was a sphere which revolved around the sun.

The reader must ask himself if he is prepared to believe and to defend the Qur'an in this passage. Either the sun sets in a pond or it doesn't. It is either one way or the other. There can be no middle ground, no compromise, no evading the issue. If you agree with us that the sun is shining on the other side of the earth and thus it does not go down into murky water, then you must also agree with us that the Qur'an contains scientific errors.

"So what?" you ask. "Who cares!" you cry. Only those who are brave enough to seek the truth will care. Those who are intellectually lazy or dishonest will close their eyes and pretend to see nothing.

It only takes one error to disprove the Qur'an. That's right. Just one little error and the whole book goes down in defeat! You have just discovered one irrefutable error in the Qur'an. What are you going to do about it?

The above is found on the internet cut and pasted. It is easily obtained if desired.

Regards Mustardseed

Please watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTBPUdFhDa8 it explains this "contradiction."

A few more thoughts..........

The following is a brief list of some of the strange and absurd teachings of Muhammad which I feel are in contradiction with modern science What do YOU think.

1. Adam was 60 cubits tall! (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 543) Then how tall was Eve? If they were that tall, how did we get here?

2. Muhammad was a dog hater. He thought that angels could not enter a house if a dog was there and that black dogs were devils. Thus he ordered dogs to be killed and forbid the selling of dogs. (Bukhari vol- IV, nos. 539, 540; Muslim vol. I, nos. 551, 552; vol. II, nos. 3803, 3829)

3. Satan lives in the nose over night. He can be flushed out if you snort water up and then out the nose. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 516; Muslim vol. I, no. 462) How big is Satan? Is he in everyone's nose? Is he omnipresent?

4. Muhammad forbade the game of chess! (Muslim vol. IV, no. 5612) This makes no sense to me.

5. People turn into rats, pigs and monkeys. (Bukhari vol. IV, nos. 524, 627; Muslim vol. IV, no. 7135). Abraham's father was turned into an animal (Bukhari vol. IV, no.569)

6. Muslims have one intestine while non-Muslims have seven! (Muslim vol. 111, no. 5113-5115)

7. If you lift up your eyes towards heaven while praying, your eyes will be snatched out! (Muslim vol. III, nos. 862-863)
8. One wing of a fly has poison but the other wing has the antidote to it. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 537)

9. We should drink camel urine as a medicine. (Bukhari vol. I, no. 234)
10 He was asked to explain why a child will look like one parent as opposed to looking like the other. He claimed that Gabriel came and gave the inspired answer. See Bukhari vol. IV: no. 546. So, we are dealing with revelation and not just his personal opinion. He said that the child will look like which parent reaches his or her sexual climax first. The study of genetics and DNA forever disproves this idea.

Again the above is freely available on the net

Regards Mustardseed

Lol this amuses me:P Because those are not divine quotes taken from the Quran itself. They are taken from hadiths(the "biography" of muhammed). Muslims believe in specific hadiths which have a chain of narration dated back to reliable sources. Omar bin Khatib once said that if a hadith contradicts the Quran it is completely false. I just wanted to give you a brief introduction upon this matter. Firstly, "Adam was 60 cubits tall! (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 543) Then how tall was Eve? If they were that tall, how did we get here? "

See you expect people to believe in astral projection but yet you find it hard to believe in the sizes of early human beings? To clear this up scientists stated that the first human beings in fact we were VERY large people, natural selection and genetic influences have made that human cope with the surroundings and environment. Note the Quran agrees with Partial evolution which is another miracle in the holy quran. " Muhammad was a dog hater. He thought that angels could not enter a house if a dog was there and that black dogs were devils. Thus he ordered dogs to be killed and forbid the selling of dogs. (Bukhari vol- IV, nos. 539, 540; Muslim vol. I, nos. 551, 552; vol. II, nos. 3803, 3829) " Actually Muhammad wasn't a dog hater.Theres a story that goes he saw a dog which was very thirsty so he went to a well filled up his shoe and gave the dog to drink. Is that really hating on animals?

http://www.submission.org/pets/dogs2.html

Also, Islam teaches us that God created the earth for us and commanded us to treat it with respect for it will testify against us along with all the animals on this earth.

Satan lives in the nose over night. He can be flushed out if you snort water up and then out the nose. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 516; Muslim vol. I, no. 462)
5. People turn into rats, pigs and monkeys. (Bukhari vol. IV, nos. 524, 627; Muslim vol. IV, no. 7135). Abraham's father was turned into an animal (Bukhari vol. IV, no.569)

6. Muslims have one intestine while non-Muslims have seven! (Muslim vol. 111, no. 5113-5115)

7. If you lift up your eyes towards heaven while praying, your eyes will be snatched out! (Muslim vol. III, nos. 862-863)
8. One wing of a fly has poison but the other wing has the antidote to it. (Bukhari vol. IV, no. 537)
10 He was asked to explain why a child will look like one parent as opposed to looking like the other. He claimed that Gabriel came and gave the inspired answer. See Bukhari vol. IV: no. 546. So, we are dealing with revelation and not just his personal opinion. He said that the child will look like which parent reaches his or her sexual climax first. The study of genetics and DNA forever disproves this idea.


These are actually Hadiths which are classified as weak.They contradict the Quran and are regarded as false.In fact we see the chain of narration to understand if the hadith itself was originally divine. WE AS MUSLIMS believe in the words of the holy Quran as the 100% true word of God but the hadiths are not regarded as this. Also, alot of the hadiths which you have mentioned ARE NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSLATION. Some don't even say things as close as it really is.

Frankly, most of what I read is the modern interpretation of ancient writings, using scientific knowledge as the basis for that understanding.  In other words, it's like saying that when the Bible says "Let there be light" It means that after the big bang when Hydrogen atoms were formed and split into Helium they released photons, so that proves that the biblical account of creation is literally true.
A bit of a stretch, if you ask me.

And btw, who is 'We'?

You clearly havn't read the verses If i create a book 1400 years ago explaining he developmental stages within a baby is very significant especially in precise order ^^ .

In Arabic language We is referred to as someone of higher power just like Vous in french.

Nastradamus and DaVinci were not Muslims and they also talked about technology (especially Nostradamus) which was not yet invented

I am reading that stuff now... sounds better than the 7 days, but still.. in 1000 years we will find out that someone travelled back in time and wrote it  , joking haha

Look there is just overinterpritation:
"The ejaculated drop"
During that time the culture was male dominant. Everyone saw semen, they linked it to birth... and so since its male dominant society everything comes from the male which means it comes from God.

They just give too much meaning to the words. All over history people correctly assumed things about science and so on before it was prooven. For example weather prediction.

Actually, If you read the Quran your gonna notice that the egg is also apart of the process. Allah sbwt explains creation step by step. The Quran tells us to treat men and women as equal human beings with equal rights. This was the revolutionary movement of the Islamic era during the time of Muhammed. I read nostradamus's work, rather fascinating indeed. Although, there are errors in his predictions and work, therefore considering him to have had divine intervention is completely false. The Quran remains perfect in any shape way or form. You can argue maybe the Muslims got the information from the greeks or egyptians? But lets be real here, this was during the dark ages where the collapse of civil morals laws was prevalent. And Society itself focused on primitive ways of analyzing the world. Is it really logical that the Arabs traveled on there caravan around the world to put together scientific pieces through "artifacts"? Its possible but is it logical? Also considering the Greeks themselves made MANY errors and so did the Egyptians and Mayans. Why did the Islamic movement truly flourish? The reason is that the Meccan society was overruled with injustices. Women were treated badly, kids were killed needlessly, wine was consumed abruptly, ignorance dominated the social structure of the society. When the revelation came to Muhammed Allah commanded him to preach out against racism,injsutice,slavery,murder. This is is the grass root level in which Islam functions at. So for you to say Islam is racist is absolutely false. Also please keep this thread with actual proof regarding these matters.


Greek errors:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/GreekScience/Students/Ellen/EarlyGkAstronomy.html
Learn about the society:
http://www.freewebs.com/1slam/muhammed.htm

The Holy Quran is a revelation from God almighty to his prophet Muhammed pbuh. The thing is, during the dark ages where logic and reason had collapsed into a period of corruption, THE QURAN STATES SCIENTIFIC SIGNS which were later on discovered and verified thousands of years later. I ask who could have come up with these? No one except God almighty

http://www.freewebs.com/1slam/scienceinthekoran.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/1slam/proofofgodsexistence.htm

First of all, centuries ago people never ever behaved the way we are behaving today. Nowadays society is so  open to "immoral" ideas. Rape,Murder,injustice has increased, Muhammad predicted the Iraqis not receiving food or water and starving(the sanctions placed on the Iraqi people).  Untrustworthy people taking control over the affairs of a society. The thing is, thousands of years ago such actions were UNHEARD OF and very uncommon. Sociologists confirm that the collapse of moral values indeed is taking over after the turn of the century. Earthquakes, natural disasters increasing? Indeed in the past decade there has been a huge distortion in natural weather patterns. Muhammad predicted the cold regions warming up and the warm regions cooling down. Indeed because of the global emissions emitted the seasons are being amplified to an extreme degree. There is so much in which the Holy Quran and the hadiths speaks about

Well sorry, let me restate that again. I dont think people are able to project into the physical world looking at the physical world meaning I don't think we can remote view, Its probably simply your body going into a lucidic dream state. Couldn't that be a possibility? The experiments are not reliable:P There not actual conducted experiments by world renounced scientists or university professors performing research, its just some random guy on the internet "claiming" he performed an experiment! Hey I could be wrong so all I am going to say for now is only God has the knowledge, only he holds the truth about this and the truths about everything in the world. Nor Do I believe the Americans went to the moon it was probably a hoax but heyy!!! lol thats besides the point. Thnk you guys so much and may peace and blessings be upon you all

But personally I dont think Astral projection is your soul nor do I think people can actually do that. It may be caused by the DMT(a hallucinative product released when dreaming). Couldn't it be possible that people are just experiencing a "lucid" dream where they think they are outside there bodies? It doesn't make sense for it to truly be your soul, considering the soul is apart of your entire body, your soul is your mind heart consciousness the whole load! Your simple "transfering" consciousness into a dream state which you are aware of your surroundings but yet its all part of the mind?Couldn't that be a reason behind it? Why would they spend hundreds of millions of dollars to AP when Aping literally requires no money at all! Doesn't really make sense to me:P I've googled Joe McMoneagle, Ingo Swann, Harold Puthoff and alot of the sites were not reliable sources.

[" I mean people claim they can visit the moon but yet NASA spends billions of dollars....... "]

No offense taken, very good questions imo. TBH, I was at first offended by the name Jeehad because of the negative conotations, but you seem to be a regular sensable person.

Talking about dreams is a good place to start because I'm not aware of any arguments that say that dreaming isn't a common human experience.

During a dream, we experience conscous activity and complete imaginary environments that can involve all the senses. Because the physical body is asleep and not actually in the dream, in that sense the conscous dream self can be said to be separate from the body.
In most cases the dream self has a body that interacts with the dream scene.

But we know that it's not separate, we're just dreaming, and the conscousness is experiencing a virtual environment.

The interesting part comes next when the conscousness experiences degrees of lucidity within varring degress of construct virtual to actual consensus environments. The experience can be very dynamic and range from one to the other in a matter of moments during the same session.

" I mean people claim they can visit the moon but yet NASA spends billions of dollars....... "

I ask the same question! In fact, I'm in the process of searching for ancient artwork that has anything that resembles the Hubble pictures of deep space, galaxys, nubulas, cosmic dust and gas. If monks and yogis of the past have indeed been transporting their conscousness to explore the physical universe, why don't we see Hubble like pictures in ancient artwork?

I'm just guessing that using the transportation of conscousness to explore the physical universe is a waste of precious time when that time can be used to experience spiritual realms. I know it sounds like a convenient excuse, but the question remains.

Imagine going up to a scientist and declaring, " I want to prove to you that I'm awake"
You see how rediculous that is? What's the point?

First of all, I would have taken offense for you misunderstanding the true meaning of jihad. Jihad is actually very VERY peaceful, first and foremost War is forbidden in Islam 10000000%. The Word jihad means to struggle in the way of god, therefore jihad is basically anything I perform for my lord. People in the west misunderstand Jihad as meaning Holy war but any reliable dictionary would contradict the media. Lesson number one, never ever trust the media enrich your mind through reading about the religion Itself. There main purpose is to destroy Islam to serve there own stupid cause as a right to kill innocent lives which have nothing to do with terrorism, thats a debate for another day:P U talk about DMT which is actually a chemical released by ure amygdala which separates body from soul so lucid dreaming is basically allowing your body not to take effect of this product its not necessarily a hallucinogen since its a natural by product of the body. Dreams are formed by your thoughts being rearranged which sometimes could form thoughts pictures. So couldn't astral projectors just be experiencing a lucid dream, considering it meets the exact symptoms of dreams. I inevitably believe the mind is a powerful thing although recreating things in realms and such can only be done through your imagination and making it seem live to you can only done through dreaming therefore it totally makes sense!!! Although, the monks and Mayans and priests you speak of actually have used technology which they had at there time. The mayans had pyramids which were positioned through there own "star" formations telling them the "calender of events. Therefore the mayans actually did do studies considering the thousands of mathematical equations found. Another thing, many of these spiritual pirests did not come to an exact conclusion and theres no record they astral projected. Im well aware that NASA or any of such programs know about Astral Projecting and surely though would use it for there own will(cmon its
America were talking about:P). Just my thoughts!

 Don't take offense to my thread:P I was just wondering there needs to be a logical explanation to astral projection instead of your soul being divided from your body, or even physically projecting. MY question, are there any scientific conducts to astral projection? Cause to me it seems weird, I mean people claim they can visit the moon but yet NASA spends billions of dollars on launching space shuttles, and i'm quiet sure NASA would know about astral projection:P MY question is, If its true and works for sure then why arent there any scientific theories? Couldn't it just be us humans entering a dream phase? Dreams don't act on a plane btw dreams are scientifically proven to be the rearranging of thoughts within your mind in oder to process it for the next day. Dreams sometimes form images, and may have hidden symbols and such so couldn't you guys be projecting in a dream "world" type thing instead of the "real" world?

Luminoth-

I don't see anything rude in what Jeehad wrote. He simply said that reciting the koran made him feel closer to God. He found what works for him and said that, as a result, he didn't need to project to do it.

I think he has a valid point. Many people have never heard of OBE or Ap, but still feel close to God. And I also agree that doing what you believe God wants you to do is a way of feeling closer to him/her/it.

Thank you exactly what I mean. Everybody has there own way of getting closer to God(Allah), My way is through prayer through good actions through fasting through the basic 5 pillars of Islam.As a Muslim I need to perform the 5 pillers which are fasting,praying 5 times a day, Performing pilgrimage to Mecca(if you can afford), giving at least 10% of the wealth to the poor, and Belivining the divine. I think these actions help me further and closen myself to God, frankly I don't need to speak to an angel or spirits or anything to understand or know about God because I believe he is with me and all of us and He projects his message through the holy Quran(my belief:P)

sorry you are right

Im not a projector, but what will bring you closer to the divine is by performing his will. You dont need to project to be close to god! If you truly love God and truly believe in him then pray to him , and follow his will and inshallah God will come closer to you:) Everybody has differnt ways of approaching God and being close to him,I pray to my Lord, I recite the Holy Koran and I feel such a great rush and presence so in retrospect I don't need projecting

watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__TtLTgrEus&NR

Amazing quranic recitation with translation!! take a look at the truth!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__TtLTgrEus&NR

ALLAHU AKBAR

The Minor Signs of the Last Day

by Mohammed Ali Ibn Zubair Ali

Qiyamah will come when...

Hadhrat Abu Musa Ash'ari (R.A.) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhii Wassallam) said, "Qiyamah will come...

* When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions.
* When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.
* When it will be hot in winter (and vice versa).
* When the length of days is stretched, i.e. a journey of a few days is covered in a matter of hours.
* When orators and lecturers lie openly.
* When people dispute over petty issues.
* When women with children come displeased on account of them bearing offspring, and barren women remain happy on account of having no responsibility of offspring.
* When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day.
* When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.
* When lies prevail over the truth.
* When violence, bloodshed and anarchy become common.
* When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.
* When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummat, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannat.
* When the offspring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents).

The following is part of a lengthy Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ood (R.A.) when he inquired from Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) about the Signs of Qiyamah.

* Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.
* People will indulge in homosexuality.
* There will be an abundance of illegitimate children.
* There will be an abundance of critics, tale-carriers, back- biters and taunters in society.
* People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones.
* Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business establishments.
* The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance.
* The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected.
* Gangsters and evil people will prevail.
* Various wines will be consumed excessively.

Auf bin Malik (R.A.) says: I came to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) while he was in his skin tent during the Tabuk expedition. He said to me, "Count six things before the advent of Qiyamah:

1 My death
2 The conquest of Jerusalem
3 Mass deaths amongst you people, just as when sheep die in large numbers during an epidemic
4 Abundance of wealth to such an extent that if a person were to be given a hundred Dinars he will still not be satisfied
5 General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it
6 Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
(Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of twelve thousand men." (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari).

IRAQ and SYRIA

Abu Nadhrah says: "We were sitting in the company of Jabir bin Abdullah (R.A.) when he said: 'Soon the people of IRAQ will neither receive any food (grain) nor any money.'" We asked, "Why would such a thing happen?" He replied, "Because of the non-Arabs." (i.e they will prevent food from going into Iraq, in the form of "sanctions" to this day.) He then said: "Soon the people of Shaam (SYRIA) will neither receive any money nor grain." We asked as to why this would happen. He replied: "Because of the Romans (christians)."

CONCEITED PEOPLE:

Hadhrat Abbas (R.A) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) has said, "Islam will spread far and wide, across the seas. Horses will cross the land and seas in the cause of Jihaad. Then a time will come wherein a group of people will emerge which recites the Quraan. They will claim,

'We have recited the Quraan and is there anyone who understands the Quraan better than us? There is NO ONE more proficient than us in the study of the Quraan.'

Then Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) asked the Sahaba, "Do you see any good in their claims?" The Sahaba replied, "No". Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) said, "But these conceited claimants will be from my Ummah and will be the fuel of the Fire."

from "Signs of Qiyamah" (excerpts)
by Mohammed Ali Ibn Zubair Ali