Messages

will get to it .................i am onavailable 

Dear Alan
Very interesting questions you raise. I have been thinking about them a great deal for many years and have a suggestion, and a possible answer. Now before I write you what I think, please do not reply in a tirade or with harshness. I am not saying that I know these things, it is just a suggestion...ok!

The way I see it there are 2 possibilities, either God did not say it or God did. If he did not then man did and in that case I would agree with Taysin. If it was God then there has to be a explanation that makes sense.

A while ago Robert Bruce alleged that evil spirits are hindered in roaming our modern society because of water mains criscrossing the cities in countries all over the world. Keep that in mind, and use that as a foundation for this theory.

If we go way back, to the time of Enoch, it appears that the fallen angels spread across the land to infiltrate and seek dominance of the world. They had lots to "teach" the world lings, how to make war, weapons and drugs etc things that was not known to man. The Angels interbred with females and produces offspring, but these were easily identified as they were giants, standing some 12ft, and eventually were all killed off.  Their tactics changed and they used possession to gain influence and feed on human energy. The nations around the Hebrews were rampant with such demon worship, and an array of different Negs (demons) were worshiped, child sacrificing to the God Moloch was normal. The only nation that had not been defeated was the Hebrew nation, from where Jesus was to come.

Since the Negs (demons) could roam free over the countries, many tried to attach themselves to the Hebrews. The slaves were allready mostly from these nations anyway. Jesus had not come yet and there was no AUTHORITY by which to cleanse these people, (well there actually was but it was complicated and required lots of time and effort) so God told the Hebrews to kill anyone who showed signs of possession, or in war even babies and children. Was it a fight for humanity and to avoid a complete dominance of Negs on the PLANET? He had to keep the Hebrews pure for the purpose of the bloodline to Jesus.

Lets look at the verses in this light.

EXODUS 21:17: and again in LEVITICUS 21:9 "And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death."

The word used here is "Kawlal" it is a complicated word to translate as it can mean a few things. Generally is thought to mean to afflict, or to dispise. It appears that it has to do with not only words but some kind of action. Children are some of the best hiding places for Negs the perfect cloak if you will, but children are also very susceptible to possession, and it seems that they had a lot of contact with slaves even being wet nursed at times, and the violence or abject despising of his parents would be in that day a sign of a budding possession


EXODUS 21:20-21: "And if a man beats his servant or his maidservant with a rod...(and he or she)...remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he (or she) is his property.

One of the main ways that demons are exorcised is through pain. It seems that in possession the negs experience pain felt by their host. Today they use electroshocks, but in places like India they beat people or place them under heavy rocks that hurts just enough to make the neg leave without harming the host. This is TODAY Alan, what did they use then.

EXODUS 22:19 and also in LEVITICUS 20:15-16 "Whoever lies with a beast shall surely be put to death."

It is very likely that possession through contact of fluids and sexual interaction was the easiest way, for negs to gain ground. Neg possession of animals was another very good cloak. They were needed on the farm and no one wanted to kill them, as they had practical use and value.

EXODUS 31:15 "Whoever does ANY work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

This was possibly as a test. The negs could not come near to the power of God and stayed away from congregations where Gods spirit was strong. They do not like the "light". During the Sabbath, Gods presence was stronger through rituals etc and the ones who had a neg attachment had to stay away to avoid cursing God, a common test for possession. Again a test for possession

LEVITICUS 20:10 "The adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death".

God had to protect the blood line and make sure that there was no interaction. Most of the adulterers did their thing in lust, again a test. It could have been a good way to keep Hebrews clean and pure, from infiltration.

LEVITICUS 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman...they shall surely be put to death."

Same answer as the 2 above. Those delving into strong lust, males with males or animals, could be afflicted. Were homosexuals possessed with "female negs" succubus, or incubus?

LEVITICUS 20:27 "A man or a woman who is a medium...shall surely be put to death."

Is this  talking about spiritual gifts, or are talking about Negs and possession, I think the latter

LEVITICUS 24:16 "And whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him."

Obvious as well. Blasphemy was a sign of neg presence.

LEVITICUS 25:45-46 "Moreover you may buy the children of strangers...and they shall become your property. And you may take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them as a possession; they shall be your permanent slaves."

Slavery was seen as taking the people from the nations around, to bring them physically closer to the light, and do not forget that every 50 years at the jubilee ALL slaves were set free. Even if they had only been in their masters possession for a year.

LEVITICUS 26:29 "You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters"

This is taken out of context. It is an actual warning to the Hebrews of what will befall them if they disobey. How they will be besieged by their enemies and scattered all over the world, and will become so evil that they even become cannibals. Try to look up the entire passage and you will understand. It is a prediction of the future and not a commandment. There is a difference

LEVITICUS 27:5 "Your valuation of a (human) male shall be twenty shekels, and for a female ten shekels."

Men worked harder and was less trouble, a male slave was a great asset

NUMBERS 15:32-36 "...they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day...Then the Lord said to Moses, 'The man must surely be put to death"...So as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died."

As above

NUMBERS 31:15-18 "And Moses said to them: 'Have you kept all the women alive?...Now therefore kill every male among the little ones; and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls...'

It appears that in that day attachment to males was predominant, thats why they cost more, they were rare. There appeared to be more life force in males for negs to feed off. In any case the same answer as above

These are just ideas and not facts, could this be the reason I would like to hear from you all about this as it has also been a question of mine for a while,

Regards Mustardseed

(6) Where is the soul of Hitler...?

In the hereafter......he is having so intensive courses....might take a while still. There are a few of those, actually he is doing better than Stalin and PolPot and a few others. It will be OK though. I will eventually draw all men unto myself and reconcile the universe.

This is what Alan quotes

There is a message in the thread from a Girl, I think she is called ....let me see.....Camigurl........... Interesting name by the way.

Yes I know, ha, ...I still think its funny to say that. I know.........

Well why can't she hear from you

Who says she can't

Well she does

Read it again Mustardseed

Ok One sec...........1)  How come I can't get a response from you god?  Am I not trying hard enough or not in the right way?  Please tell me how to improve on getting your response.  I would love to hear you voice and be able to talk to you whenever... :)Here it is

See I told you

Told me what it is me who is right, she says she can't get a response from you.

that is correct, but asked why said she could not HEAR from me. There is a difference. A response is like talking on a two way radio and hearing from me is like opening the radio, and I am always broadcasting. Her issue is that she wants a specific answer, and is not able to decipher what she hears to get it, she need to do some more and closer listening.

Can you explain that,  it sounds confusing to me

OK think of it this way. If you are lost you stop at a crowded office and ask for the way and 20 people answer you at the same time, how do you know where to go

Well I guess I don't

Exactly. You see she has to learn what my voice sounds like before she can distinguish it from all the other voices in her head as well as her own thoughts. That is the trick it ain't complicated but just takes some fine tuning.

Well how does she actually do that

How did you do it?

Ummm I don't really know actually. I think I talked a lot to you without expecting an answer, just like I would talk to a friend and pour out my heart when I was sad or happy. Then gradually it seemed that I had more and more a idea of what a best friend would say in a given situation.

anything else

Well I read the Bible a lot as well as positive and uplifting books, I made a clear decision to stay away from writings that were either Violent or had a dark feel to them. I sort of chose the good loving stuff we could say pure stuff.

Right, you chose the good and reject the evil, that's a good beginning, and she can do the same. Everyone can. Have a spring cleaning in a spiritual way and decide to think on positive loving joyful things, to live in a loving way and be thankful no matter what I bring along the way, then gradually they will tune out the voices of the world and my voice will become clear and distinct

Ok I guess that is the answer to the first question, here is number 2. She sounds like a Libra discussing things with herself

Am I accurately describing my own personality, or am I overanalyzing it, like I often do things

Ha good one. My dear one. You are not one personality, your personality is not static not permanent. It changes as you grow and all you can do is asses it at various times in your life, but yes you do tend to over analyze things but that is ok. It shows you are thinking about things and not just wandering aimlessly through life, I like that about you

3)  As you know, my family says I'm obsessed with finding myself...Is this really true?!  I don't understand this somehow...

It is very simple my sweet gurl, your family is not obsessed with finding anything, they think they KNOW, again it is my spirit prodding you to find the reason for it all, finding yourself is not as important as accepting yourself, the moment you accept yourself you have also found yourself.

4)   Why can't I astral project!  This is really frustrating...grrr...

Time time time, all in good time, looking into the everlasting in to the land of the living, the truly alive is not something that is given to all. There is a time period of testing training but relax and just do your best to live life the best way you know how and in due time.........

Thankyou God

You are most welcome. By the way black in not a color, it is the absence of color you might say, and it does not match your spirit, just a hint.........

What was that all about

Well nothing I just don't care too much for black, no biggie

Ok whatever, thanks for the help. Talk to you later

Ok my boy ..........cya

Hi Alan, allow me to comment. It seems that you, and many others, have a very traditional understanding of Heaven, Eternity or whatever you call it. What we have all been taught, is very different to what seems to actually be imbedded in the Bible. I am not telling you to believe and become Christian, but if you are going to criticize Christianity, let us at least look at what it actually teaches. I took the liberty to cut and paste to make a few categories out of your statements, hope you do not mind

All the time in the existence and not a moment to call your own

Well first of all, is eternity eternal, I wonder, the Greek word often used in the translation of eternal or everlasting is actually "Aeon" which means an age. It seems that what the Bible actually teaches is, that the hereafter is not made up of moments, moments would indicate a measure of time, and since "time will be no more", it appears that it is a "dimension" quite different from what we know now. It seems plausible that eternity is past present and future all rolled up in a ball, time travel should be possible, yet with personal choice the future could have a unlimited amount of possibilities......the mind boggles. Besides this observation, about time, if God is as close as it appears He wants to be, Jesus being our all and all, mother father brother sister lover mate etc, I do not think we will be languishing for time of "our own", we would probably be so happy and exited to have the possibility of connecting with the eternal and partake of this Love that a separation from Him/Her/It would be the difficult part.

No pain and no gain

While it is true that there will be no more pain, I think you are again jumping to a conclusion. Is gain possible without pain? Well it seems so. It appears that the suffering that Jesus endured on the cross is in a way the end of "pain" for the believer. It seems that when we first arrive in the hereafter there will be at least some pain, as we see more clearly the mistakes we have made and the suffering our selfishness have caused, whole chain of events that have been started by us, but then it says that Jesus will "wipe away the tears from our eyes" and I think it will be sort of "up hill on a ski lift sort of idea" from there on. Gain without pain...yes mama super.....so different from earth!

No point to the day and nothing different tomorrow

An eternity of gratitude and nothing to live for


Ha.....yes I used to wonder about that as well. Sitting on a cloud playing a harp or just drifting about bored out of my brains, but I think I had it mixed up. That's HELL, repeating the same useless futile things day after day with no change no vision no goal no nothing. It is said that the (here)after is just a continuation of what we do and are here.....that we create our own hell and our own heaven. So if your have "no point to the day and nothing different tomorrow" change it!!!!Get a vision here start doing what you want here and cheer up here...........not only will your present be better but you might shape your future, and your tomorrow will be different, and possibly............your hereafter will as well!

Never having to say you'd rather be somewhere else

There was a movie when I was young called "love story" in it this young couple had a Romeo and Juliet kind of affair and coined an expression that the Hippie generation took on as their own. It went................"Love is never having to say you are sorry". I never liked the expression. I always thought that Love was saying I'm sorry. Maybe if you would rather be somewhere else, you just go where ever you wanna be, maybe you never have to be under any obligation, and feel like "you have to" or even better yet......maybe you are just happy where you are........this goes for this life and the one to follow.

All you will ever know again

Now this does not sound like Christianity, on the contrary this sounds life the futility of reincarnation, (and to all of you out there, I am fully aware that it seems possible that the early Christians believed in something like reincarnation) again I think you have succumbed to teachings that are not quite according to "doctrine", I do not think the hereafter is repetitive, on the contrary, it appears that we will be doing a lot of new things, we will be "healing the nations" for one thing and most of all it will be ever learning new things new ways and having a new vision.

Pointless and endless

The endless futility at the end of your pointless life

The meaningless reason for your existence

An eternal karaoke in which you never choose the songs


Oh my.........wonder what kind of life you live Alan it seems a bit on the dreary side. Actually this is one of the great mysteries of life..........death!.........why do we die and why did we live. My personal opinion is that we will have a lot of work to do when we leave this life. The end of this life is just the beginning, we have a whole universe to explore and who knows what cultures civilizations we will encounter. Maybe we will be the angels that help bring about the knowledge of God on other planets, and who knows what will be the end, again the mind boggles....one thing for sure it will be exiting.

It is never over no matter have had how many fat have ladies sung

An offer you can't refuse

Obligatory, interminable and insufferable

Interesting question! Can one refuse God. Can we as human decide to ignore God and not take part in his plan?. I think you are right we cannot. I personally believe in Universal Reconciliation and it seems that it is quite supported by scripture. Eventually every living soul will be reconciled and gathered to be a part of God, every knee will bow and everything will return to its maker.

The playground of those devoid of imagination

The place the pious go

Full of all those people you were delighted to think you would never see again

Like the old traditional story goes of the old drunk that said to the Pastor, "yea heaven is all right, but there is no place like Hell to meet old friends" It is my personal opinion again, that most of the pious will be somewhere in the cellar, that goes for those devoid of imagination as well, as far as the ones you were so delighted never to see again, I think it would depend on what and who you are. For the most part I think that the ones we are not happy to be around actually vibrate at a vastly different frequency, and you will most likely not see them till you or they have changed. Like attracts like in that world, and you will be with those that think act and vibrate like you..........I don't know where that would put you. Jesus never had too much good to say about religious people, never seemed they were his lot. He condemned the self-righteous pious scribes and Pharisees, the Church people of his day, and hung out with drunks and whores, the ones that wanted and needed his message. I guess what you are, would determine where you end up.....what are YOUR values.....what are your likes and dislikes etc what do you think

Of course there are the possible alternatives of hell or cessation of existence

Now this is the best question of all, or thought or whatever. What alternative do we have? It seems not much Alan. Life moves us all along at its own speed, and death comes to us all and the hereafter is waiting.........I personally think that a cessation of existence is impossible. It seems that eternity is waiting for us all whatever it is and whatever we are. Where and what we will be doing there, appears to be, at least in part up to us. So what will it be for you?. A life lived in joy and love here is quite a good bet I would say. No one has come to the end of their life and regretted they lived their life as a true loving Christian, caring for strangers and giving to those in need, on the contrary. Those who regret their lives, and who will wonder about the hereafter, on deaths doorstep, will be those who have not lived up to their true potential, those who wasted it on pleasure and games, drugs and whatever. Those who amassed wealth, that they had no need for and those who used and abused their fellow man, killed the innocent, for power and glory, or bitterness and hate. 

What will you be, where do YOU stand, and what will you be doing in eternity. An interesting question we should all ask ourselves.

Regards Mustardseed

you know what makes me laugh?

You are not laughing Usama you are angry and upset, and aggressive.

how ignorant people like you on this forum are.

We are not ignorant Usama, for the most part we are well educated, knowledgeable, and experienced. Many have educations probably surpassing yours, and a fair lot of us have experienced more facets of life than you.

you know nothing about Islam.

Well here I admit that I am not sure that the majority on the list knows about Islam. I can assure you that I KNOW. Though you naturally do not believe it I have lived a major part of my life in Islamic countries, Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan Pakistan and Malaysia. I have studied The Koran and the Sunnah as well as major parts of the Hadiths under the guidance of Islamic scholars. I have a in debth understanding of LIFE in an Islamic country. I KNOW about Islam.

you know nothing of the differences between Islam and culture. you people are the truly the most ignorant people on the planet.

Well Usama that is an allegation, I realise that there is a difference, but my argument is not with culture my argument is with ISLAM. As far as being the most ignorant people on the planet................well..........ummmm.....whatever  

honor killings has nothing to do with Islam, whatsoever. t he very fact im mentioning this makes me feel like a crapbag, because i have to stoop down to your level of stupidity for a  brief moment.

Dont feel like a crapbag Usama. No reason  . Honor killings in itself may have nothing to do with Islam according to the doctrine of Zina, it should be punishable for both sexes, but the fact remains that under ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE it is accepted as a necessary evil and very rarely is a man convicted for this. Thats what the problem is. Islam fails to protect the innocent

you actually think, for some reason, that the states in the Muslim world that are supported by America and have been waging a constant war against Shariah, have anything to do with Shariah! Wow! You know a lot!!

This statement makes no sense to me, could you elaborate.

If there was an actual Muslim state, free from the yokage of secular tyranny and American dominance, I would go there and I wouldnt hesitate!

The fact is that there are several countries that claim to be under sharia............not American dominance by a long shot,


Here we go.

Islamic countries:

Countries which recognize Islam as their official religion.

Afghanistan (Islamic state)
Algeria
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Brunei
Comoros
Egypt
Indonesia (recognize Islam as the six recognized religion, with Protestantism, Catholic, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Confucianism. Indonesia use Islamic jurisprudence in marriage and another jurisprudence.
Iran (Islamic state)
Iraq
Jordan
Kuwait
Libya
Malaysia
Maldives
Mauritania
Morocco
Oman
Pakistan (Islamic state)
Qatar
Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic
Saudi Arabia (Islamic kingdom)
Somalia
Somaliland
Tunisia[5]
United Arab Emirates
Yemen (Islamic state)

I think I missed a few, but what the heck........

Soooo.....go Usama .......go, do not hesitate   if you do not believe that there is one such state why not convince your fellow Muslim brothers in one of these countries, to make one. Change from within. Why are YOU living in a western country..............I will tell you why. You have a snowballs chance in HELL of making a difference, but will most likely be killed by your fellow MUSLIMS if you criticize their interpretation of Islam. So much for free speech. The only place you can speak up is among the KAFFIR, the only place you are safe from persecution from your fellow Muslims is among the KAFFIR.

as for you mustardseed, youre just an arrogant dweeb that gets delight out of expressing your conjectural opinions and crap.

Wow Osama, an arrogant Dweeb, for the uninitiated. Here is the definition:

Dweeb: an unsophisticated, obnoxious, person, (with very few exceptions, male) often a newbie, who, through ignorant posting, annoys, irritates and otherwise frustrates the regulars in a chat room or other online communication forum. Dweebs are often interested in meeting members of the opposite sex and pursuing women by exaggerating and boasting about themselves along with other annoying and inappropriate behavior.

My humility forbids me to speak of myself, my only argument against the above is the term Ignorant. I am not ignorant Usama.....not ignorant at all, on the contrary i know what I am talking about. You know that and I know that.......so drop the insults.

go ahead, go worship freedom and your man-made nonsense!

Thankyou very much

Regards Mustardseed

Women and Islam, Men and Islam, Children and Islam......to me it seems all to be the same. Lets instead talk about LIFE and ISLAM, ................what is LIFE like in an Islamic country.

I am fully aware that most Muslims abhor the unjust deeds done in the name of Islam. They defend their religion with a gusto. In the process they inevitably bring up the argument that crimes are also committed in the name of Christianity.........this is their main line of justification. The problem is, that while it is true that crimes have been committed in the name of Christianity, i.e. witch hunts, Crusades, and the inquisition etc, it is a thing of the past. IT does not happen anymore, but ceased somewhere in the 1600s, when the west slowly grew and became CIVILIZED.

As Christianity developed and matured, and as it allowed its followers freedom of thought and expression, many left the faith and created what is now the western world. A system that is at least to some degree free. It has its faults and its grotesque "sideshows" but generally speaking.................. it is a free world. You Muslims women who post here for the most parts LIVE in the west, one might ask WHY. If you love Islam so much and if you are so eager to live the Muslim dream, why not immigrate to a Muslim state. It is obvious isn't it...............because in a Muslim state you will become oppressed by SHARIA, because Islam  did not evolve, and because it is totalitarian in nature. It is a political system, manufactured to control and oppress a populace, which it does very well. In Islamic countries, men are given power over women, and Mullahs and Immams, are given the power over ordinary people. That is a lot of power to be given to man.

It is so easy to defend the Principle of Islam, yet most of you who do so have no indebth understanding of your own Religion.  Tell me Anelie....have you read the Koran in its entirety, how about the Sunnah. Have you studied the theories and Hadith interpretations by which you are expected to live, such as Bukhari and Muslim etc. Do you have an up to date understanding of the various Fathwas issued to date...........I would guess no. Maybe I am wrong..then tell me.

So if you have read the above and are up to date on your own religion and what it actually teaches lets talk about that. If not maybe you should. Maybe you should study your own religion and what it actually claims as the truth, before you defend it. As of now you tend to defend something you have only a perifial knowledge about, a glorified personal interpretation of what you "would like" Islam to be.

It is not a realistic description of what Islam IS.

Regards Mustardseed

Just so much talk and explaining "in theory and according to the sunnah and the koran" and bla bla. In real life Islam is a religion of suppression and women have virtually NO real rights. Please see the following video...................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iOrrNY4Q-c&feature=related

and cry.............


and if you are interested watch the rest.................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCpXmfmLuzc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1bDms5OfM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d-A8au4cyI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owCE8FYgASU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoPUNL7ts6E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1teDaaKlxU&feature=related

I get into these conversations because I am curious. I know a fair bit about Islam, More than most Muslims, and they often want to do a PR job on me. That does not work well. Then as I answer and clarify, they get upset and deny that their Faith teaches what it does etc and after a big explosion they leave, mostly in a fit of fury.

Then someone else comes along and I ask the same questions.

Some try to sidetrack me by saying my questions have already been answered but if you look closer they have NOT.

I want answers.

I think that is why................what do you think?

Hi there it sounds like you are trying hard, and eventually you will get there. Just be careful you do not get more than you expect. OBEs can be a very life changing experience. ........... (Hvis du har brug for hjaelp saa skriv PM

I would especially like to hear from the female posters. This is incredible and quite compelling ........

http://www.islamfortoday.com/how_to_make_your_husband_happy.htm

So Kamals what can we deduct from your absence? Until you answer my questions and actually take a stand in your own life to some of these issues I will deduct nothing? I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you have an exam, maybe you are busy with your garden or your many other activities, or maybe you have decided that you will only engage in a debate with those who either are undecided or pro your point of view. Who knows?

I would like to know what you think about the issues I brought out. How do you negate or explain the obvious fascist attitudes found in the Sunnah the Koran and the Hadith, toward Christians and Jews? What is your explational model. How do you justify your own life as a Muslim, living and enjoying the hospitality of a nation of Kaffirs? What does Jihad mean to YOU and not to some 1600 century Muslim?

As I said, down to earth questions, and I am looking forward to your answers.

Regards Mustardseed 

PS I think I gave you plenty of time

There will always be flaws in .....man!!

lol..........you know something....it did not even enter my mind that someone could not know that this is 1cor13............silly me. I guess I would be exceptionally stupid to believe that I could get away with taking the credit for it, but then again.........sometimes I have been known to do exceptionally stupid things. Ha

[If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. So then, faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.]

Did it all my life, but spent the last 20 years making it stop or go away. Now I am at ease and do it when I need some special information or guidance. Have taken to WILDing instead, more fun and very formative. Got quite bored with it all, I know it sounds silly but......been there did that, got a suitcase of t shirts 

The real exiting stuff is LIFE. If APing can help you enjoy life and become a better happier and more emphatic person, great. Unfortunately it often has the opposite effect and causes the ego to swell to megalomaniac proportions, on occasion. In such a case it is counterproductive. I live by these rules. I try and often fail but I TRY.


If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.  And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.  If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.  Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful;  it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;  it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.  Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.  Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.  For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;  but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.  For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.  So then, faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love. 

its bull..... it has happened to me numerous times, not dead yet. I sleep beside my wife, on a very small bed, she moves around a lot and we touch all the time. I have projected for years.

You see my problem is this Kamals.!!!

Most Muslims who post on these and other boards are of 2 different categories.

1st one is a Muslim or Muslims, who live in the mid east who have a basic knowledge of Islam, and a chip on their shoulder against the west. Most of these folks are very unhappy about Islam as it is played out in their day to day lives, (living in a country ruled by sharia is a drag) yet they would rather have Islam in the whole world than live as second hand citizens. They envy the west its wealth, most of it has been stolen from the 3rd world anyway, and are actually quite destructive in their attitude. Sort of in a, if I cant play no one should play, kind of way. They say they are Muslims, adhere to the stricter line, endorse Jihad, death for apostasy, Dhimmies paying tax etc the whole packet, connected with Islamic supremacy. All they want is a fair world.

2nd one are Muslims living in the west. Most of those are quite educated. They see Islam as an IDENTITY. THEIR identity. They embrace Sufism, some of them Wahabism, but generally they are anti establishment, and believe in the establishment of the Kaliphat. They are educated enough and smart enough to realise that sharia has never worked, as a good system, but is corrupt to the core, so they project their wishes for Islamic supremacy onto a future state, the Kaliphat, "where righteousness will rule and PROPER sharia will be instated". Their problem is they have no credibility. They have been educated by the west and enjoy western rights of free speech equal opportunity etc and know very well that sharia will never be instated in the west. Actually they are personally pretty abhorred by some of the antics of Muhammed, (marrying a 6 year old and f......her at 9). Yet they have to apologize for these actions. They also realize that Dhimmitude is not possible but have to apologize for the doctrine. They also know that Death for apostasy is barbaric but they have to....apologize for it. In general they are quite aware of the barbaric qualities of Islam, yet because it has become their identity, with feigned words, lofty elaborately constructed theories they .....apologize for it.

They are called apologists.

Maybe there is another group. please let me know. You yourself, either by choice or by ignorance, speak in such complicated English that people simply avoid your posts. I am not a native English speaker, and it takes me hours to read them. It irritates me to no end, and while you may think it is quite the show and very sophisticated, it is actually pretty disrespectful and does very little to further dialog. I find it condescending. With all your education you have got to know that your language borders "Lower syllable latin" to most posters.

Put your cookies on a lower shelf Kamals and lets talk about these issues. Lets address actual problems, and stay away from lengthy boring discourses on Muslim philosophy etc. I really would like some answers and I believe that you do too. What do we have in common.

Regards Mudstardseed

Dear Kamals
Your posts are very long and very complicated. I have to again ask for patience as I will have to study your answer in debth.

you said

I believe that you are mixing up modes of knowing and priorities. You mention a legal judgment in conjunction with a private moral stance, and assimilate the two together. I think this is, with all due respect, a muddling of things. This is inevitable, perhaps, without a clear criterion and set of inward principles.

You make a moral stance on the notion of "human rights" but can you clearly define these "rights" define their source, and their locus, from whence they come, and by what they are conditioned? Or do you simply accept the notion in a vague and hazy way

I do not think I have mixed anything up but that I was very clear. I asked as to YOUR standard, what YOU believe. I did not ask for your considerations in the matter, nor did I ask for a reiteration of the complexity of my question.

I asked

1. "Do you as an individual, have a moral standard for yourself, any other than what can be derived from and understood in the Koran?."

The reason I ask this is: If you accept actions and ethics as they are laid out in the Koran ONLY, and do not judge behavior based on human rights, we could be talking in vain."

My question stands. Do YOU  as an INDIVIDUAL have a moral standard for yourself.......

Pretty simple question. You seem to have gotten hung up on human rights, and the example of dentistry in Canada, shows that you shift the focus to the Human rights , instead of the main focus which was YOU.

So let me rephrase my question. Do you believe that humans have any rights, if they are not Muslims. Do they have the right to live side by side with Muslims in or outside a Islamic state, without paying taxes to Islam, without being discriminated against, etc.

Personally I believe that Muslims have these rights to equal opportunity, freedom of religion, freedom of sexual orientation etc I am a Kaffir, so what do you think being a Muslim.

Regards Mustardseed

Hi Kamals

I now read through your post. It was very long and I wonder if we should maybe try as best we can to keep them a little shorter. I know that you wanna be detailed to explain well, but It gets very complicated and as you yourself noted regarding MY many questions, they all get interwoven and hard to pull out.

Before we get into more issues, I would like to ask you 1 very important question, actually 2.

Do you as an individual, have a moral standard for yourself, any other than what can be derived from and understood in the Koran?.

The reason I ask this is: If you accept actions and ethics as they are laid out in the Koran ONLY, and do not judge behavior based on human rights, we could be talking in vain.

Let me give you an example. In one post I questioned the Islamic doctrine of death for apostasy. One of the posters said that he did not personally know what was the proper interpretation of the Suras relating to this issue, but if a death penalty was chosen by scholars to be the appropriate way of dealing with the issue it would be ok with him.

In my own opinion this is where I draw the line. If any pastor, minister or Christian in general, be he the Pope or what-have-you proved from the Bible that God wanted me to kill people who left the faith, I would leave such a faith.

This means that I as a person have limits, I have things that I will not do, and if a religion tells me that I have to do things that strives against my own standard, my UNDERSTANDING OF THE NATURE OF GOD, I will leave such a religion. Do you have any such personal limits?

Incidentally it brings us to another equally important issue. Nr 2 Who speaks for Islam? Is it possible for you as an individual to believe differently than your Immam. Is there allowance for a personal interpretation of the Koran, or is the Koran interpreted for you, like fx in Catholicism. In Catholicism the Pope decides what is proper doctrine, and anyone who publicly disagrees will be excommunicated. This goes to a lesser degree for many other denominations  and stems from a scripture that states "No scripture is of a private interpretation"   

So if you have time, I look forward to your answers. I also appreciate your input. I am a bit hurt that you count me an enemy of Islam and a protagonist, I am not. (I will get over it ha )  I have however not seen very much love in Islam and have been attacked threatened and maligned by Muslims ever since I started asking questions about the religion. Just for asking questions.

Look forward to your post

Regards Mustardseed

Dear Kamals
Thanks for the reply. I will look at it in depth on monday as I work all weekend, but just wanted to let you know I saw it. I would like to thank you for your attitude, one of respect and sincerity. I shall do my best to reply in the same manner.

My first question and really a important question was answered well, and within what I myself believe. You explain it well. My reason for this question is that I have engaged in several discussions over the years and have found that Muslims who have no answer, or have been cornered in an argument, will often use this argument to leave with their dignity intact. I say cornered, but do not mean this in an aggressive way.

These sweeping type of answers, serve to only further complicate things. My point is, that if we, who do not speak CA, cannot "understand" the Koran, we have no right to ask questions about its content. Another similar sweeping argument is incidentally the one you used about the question of abrogation.

Your question on Abrogation is one best suited for a scholar, I am not a scholar, so I will simply repeat the well known ("Jumhur") views on the issue noting of course that there is NOT total consensus on the range and degree of abrogation. It is an issue that can not be dumbed down for an internet forum given that people spend years researching and studying just this one issue.

The question of Abrogation is probably the single most important question in this debate, as it holds within itself the direction of Islam, and as you know, the future of the world. If the doctrine of Abrogation is accepted as proper, Sura 9:5 (the verse of the sword), is the chronologically latest sura, and stands as the last command, regarding a Muslims attitude toward the Kaffir, agreed?

If only a scholar can tell, how do we know what is right or not. If scholars disagree and do not believe Abrogation is acceptable, how do we know that they are not applying "Taqiyya", as denying abrogation would be the absolute perfect dissimulation.

I am studying these issues and look forward to your point of view.

Regards Mustardseed

PS for those of you who would like to take a more in depth view of these questions here are a few links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_%28exegesis%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

My my how I've changed. I was an angry person

You've been at this for a very long time MS. I don't know if I should be impressed or worried.

I am not sure what you are getting at. I sense some sarcasm but wonder if its me being sensitive. Whats your point. Impressed worried about what.

Can you be more clear or is this only a quib intended to ................well........... you tell me.

huh///don't get it.............sorry a bit slow

Dear Kamals
Welcome. I would agree that I have at times posted things that I should have refrained from posting, I was rather frustrated with the posters as my questions were met with insults , and instead of keeping cool I jumped in with both feet, and retaliated. If you take the time however to read how the thread progressed you will understand why this happened.

My questions are related to the Koran not Islam on a whole or Muslims, as a group. They remain unanswered.

I have studied the Koran and find that people are confused. Firstly every time one refers to the warlike suras one is told that there are many peaceful verses as well, yet the Koran cannot be personally interpreted because of the doctrine of ABORGATION.

Another very often used tactic is to attack the Bible instead of explaining the doctrine in the Koran. (the Bible or even America or the west). It is as if Muslims  believe that the "wickedness of the west and the evils of America" is their justification for any and all warlike attitudes and actions.

I have posted many things and never got any answer but instead have been called a variety of names and been threatened with hell fire or even on 1 occasion with Violence.

Regards Mustardseed

Please read this and reply the issues if you have the time  thank you very much for your time   

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_world_religions/peaceful_religious_dialogue_islamchristianity-t26626.30.html

Dear Alan
I owe you an apology for getting so defensive and aggressive, and hope to be forgiven as I naturally forgive you. It was very humbling having to post this, as I had expected something quite different. Thanks for not rubbing my nose in it. We all have so much to learn. Thanks for posting

Your friend David

PS.

Stillwater. Thanks for the kind words, it sure is not my credit, but Alans for having the right attitude. (come to think about it maybe the credit goes to God for getting through to us ha) I misjudged Alan. I would actually have been ok with continuing the argument and enjoy the "the shallow victory",  I am learning a lot these days, about my own unimportance and lack of love towards others. Hopefully I will grow in this area.

Regards (David) Mustardseed

Hello

Hello

Yes how are you feeling today

Wow for a minute there I did not think you were going to answer

Why did you worry, I always answer you, have I failed you so far

No I guess not

Guess not......come on I never failed to answer you

That is true

You are upset

Yes............I am

Why does it upset you so much David

Well I am not sure...there is just something about Alans post that seem so ........well angry. It hurts me that he is so upset with me, I don't think I have done anything wrong

And...........

Well I don't know but he seems so demanding, its like he drains me totally with his bullying attitude. I don't know why that seem to bother me so much, I have talked to a lot of people like that over the years

Maybe you are changing...........have you ever thought about that

No I haven't.....that's interesting. Well in any case he is very confrontational and DEMANDS a answer, specified and by point

Hmmm

What does Hmmm mean

It means that I think it is YOU who demand a answer

Me

Yes

I don't understand..........I never asked a question

Yes you did you asked why he bothers you so much

Oh yes but that was not what I meant

That's what you said

Do you want the answer

You know God.....I do but listen here, Alan is specific and wants an answer to his questions so how about we let my issues rest and get on with his questions

Oh dear.....are you "bullying" me

No ......but it seems so important and I really wants to ask you and find out your answers.

So much so that you want to push your way through

I guess so

Remind you of anybody

No....who

Come on David how long have we been having these conversations

For a while

So.....lets focus here.....think about it

If you are trying to imply that I am like him I am not buying it

Ha I knew you would get the point

I don't agree

Well let me explain the point to you.....real clear

I would rather do his questions

Lets do the questions at the end .....lets do the most important first

Well are his questions not the most important

No YOU are

What do you mean

This conversation was never for the benefit of the others, it was for you. That you chose to do it publicly was your own doing......you know free will and all that jazz. My main reason for answering was you.

Why

Because I love you and care for you more than you would ever know

Thankyou, I love you too

I know

You see David life has a way of changing simple truths into complex problems, and it is my job to keep you simple and learn to focus

Can you explain

Sure. When life gets complicated and ego and the mind seeks to take over, it is essential that you learn to stay close to me, my spirit, to focus on love compassion and reality. The world in not reality, it is a constant malmstrom that always seeks to quench the love I put in your heart. It constantly tries to make you change and turn away from the path, the straight and narrow path that I want to lead you on. It does so by making you believe lies, and then act out these lies.

Lies like what

Well lets see ...............there are so many. In your case you feel hurt because you have been unjustly accused. Your ego has been hurt your self esteem has been deflated and instead of just admitting that you cover it in a fit of fury. I notice you have that attitude when you talk to people that are very dogmatic and have a very set belief.

Yes that's true that irks me

Interesting isn't it

Why

Well if anyone has a very set beliefsystem it is YOU

That's not true..........i am very open

Ha......yea right, like you were open to shams Usama and now Alan. You were so open that you continually called him Osama just to get on his nerve. YOU are not that open and to tell the truth.....I am good at that.......you are not all that nice either......you are just more clever with words and more skilled at hurting your "opponent" making it sound like it was not intended. You are a hypoctrite.....but I still love you

But ...........It was not like that

It was exactly like that......you got upset and you knew just what to say to get back at those guys. Not a very good sample my friend. Ever wonder why people smite you.

Well that's just a popularity competition

Maybe but if you had been nicer you would have had better results

What do you mean

Well I mean that these people were trapped they were going the wrong way, they were not here by accident you know

Did you make them post

What do you think

I guess you did

Of cause I did but you were no big help in making them change their direction, actually you just made things worse

Did I really

Yes.....but I love you

Sorry

Its ok but you need to work on that. Calm down and stop being so confrontational......yes and I know so don't start with me I know how you get upset by people who mistreat others.

I do

That is ok but you know it is for certain that people will do that, you can do nothing about it, the only thing you can do is be my love to the people. Do you think I would have talked to them that way.....can you imagine me setting little word traps and getting all vindictive

No..................I know you would not do that

What would I do

Well I guess you would tell them the truth as simple and lovingly as you could and then if they would not listen you would repeat it

And then

After a while you would stop talking to them

Ahhhh so you HAVE learned a few things

Yes I think so

People like Alan are searching David, they are searching and they are struggling to understand, that is a good thing

Well what if they get all nasty

Lets not go there again.......you get nasty yourself........... get over it

Ok

They are struggling they are seeking and they will find....eventually

Are you sure

Sure I am sure........He that seeks will find and to him that knocks a door will be opened, but they have to first of all come face to face with themselves and that can take a while

Can you explain that

Ego is a funny thing David, it is part you and yet not, it is an enigma to you, that the same thing that brings you such joy in the battle, brings you such glory in accomplishment and such pleasure in success, is also your biggest enemy. It takes you further and further away from me and closer to yourself, so much so that after a life spent in its company YOU become the center of the universe, and not me.

Alan has a very sweet side to him that you do not see

But you do

Naturally I love him as much as I love you

How does that work

A sweet mystery of life ....love, I love you all as if you were the only one on earth, and long to be as personal with everybody as I am with you.

Yes I understand that

It is hard for some people to see me that way. They cannot because they are wrapped up in their......ego, their own understanding, and a man all wrapped up in himself makes a very small bundle

Did Alan get a glimse of you

He did

Well his idea is so different from mine let me see what he said....

I am the encompasser and enfold all things within the substance of my being. Resonating with profound unfathomable vibrations, creation trembles at the passing of my presence.

I am the stalker of the soul, the defeater of death. I am supreme and take the abstract, and convert it into concrete matter.

I dwell in the breath of my life, which is composite bright light, looking with delight upon the beauty of the garden of my creation, sparkling out of the darkness of infinite universes.

I am well pleased with my endeavours and set the clock of time to run for eternity.

I am the winder of the watch of creation. 'I Am" HE,

If you do only one thing repect me the "LORD"

Its so ....pompous

Ha.....I kind of like it

Well how about all the other things....let me see

Don't even bother David

Why not..............I want to understand

Why does it get to you so much...........he has just seen a different part of me...........a bit more majestic, ..............I kinda like that

Well to me you are more like my best buddy

I AM your best buddy

But how can you be both

Well.............I am God

So you are different things to different people

Sure did you not know that

Well how about the militant Muslims

That's where I draw the line, no killing is needed to please me, all I need is your love and I will give you what I have......MY love, a love that will make you love your enemies do good to thise that hate you and pray for those that spitefully use you.

Yea you said that before

And I meant it........remember if you look for the worst in people you will find...................but if you look for the best in people you will find that too.

Something good in everyone I see..........its like that song by Abba

Yea I tried to get my name in there but they decided differently.....you know free will and all that Jazz.....but it came out fine anyway....I love that song. Sad about the girl.

What Girl

That's another story

Huh

Are you getting the picture

I don't know...........its a lot to take in, I thought you were going to get quite pointed and straight with Alan

You HOPED I would defend you and MAKE him believe you, and that you talk to me and that I answer.

Yes...............I guess that's about it, I feel real silly about this, would rather not post it.

That's your choice David, what do you have to loose

Well he is probably gonna jump on me as a pound of lead

And

Well it wont be pleasant, he will bet all abusive and write in caps again, I feel like he is shouting at me and I get mad

So...been there, did that, just got a bloody t-shirt

Well I guess I will have to post it.....we had an agreement

Exactly I am glad you remembered

Ok what about his questions

Shoot

Lets see .....I will clip and paste

Ok

Here goes



What is Truth..

I am truth, I am also the way and the life, but I am most definitely TRUTH

Is there a Devil.??

Yes

(1) Where does God live..?? (On a throne??)

On a throne if you prefer to think of it that way. The heaven is my throne the earth is my footstool. More metaphysically I live in you through you and around you, I am the universe, the beginning and the end the alpha and the omega.


(2) Why does an Omnipotent Omniscient, Omnipresent God allow evil and suffering?

I allow it so that YOU will learn Alan, that life without ME is futile, a waste, I allow it so that you will understand that unless you choose LOVE you will go astray. I allow it so that you will choose me through your free will. Cause if there were no suffering there would be no wrong choices, and consequently no right ones............but there is. Choose ME

(3) Why do we exist.?

You exist to learn and grow in your understanding of ME I have a great plan for each of you, and you will find yours in due time.

(4) What happens after we die?

That all depends on.........Life on earth has a way of echoing in your future, it is a school if you will a path a ladder how you progress on earth determines the level you enter in the hereafter. It is you test, your exam and after you have done your best here we will have a chat and go through the test together and see how you scored.

(5) Why does God hide himself from us?

Dear Alan I do not hide myself, look around you, I am everywhere, a smile on the face of a baby, a sunset, a blade of grass touched by the early dew, and the enthralled look on your lovers face after you gave her a good f.... (can I say that here)

Well.....I don't think so lets just put some periods

OK

(6) Where is the soul of Hitler...?

In the hereafter......he is having so intensive courses....might take a while still. There are a few of those, actually he is doing better than Stalin and PolPot and a few others. It will be OK though. I will eventually draw all men unto myself and reconcile the universe.

(7) Is there a hell where we burn in torment forever and ever..?

No Alan there is not. Some souls feel like they are burning and as if it will last forever, but it will only last for an Aeon, eventually they will allow themselves to be released.

Point by point now::   1) THEN  2) THEN 3) "IF THIS IS NOT TO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO COMPREHEND"

I don't get that.

Well that is where you and I are limited. If you do not understand the question, I cannot answer it, we are bound together........I explained that earlier

Well it seems like some code that he wants you to answer so he can see if you are real

Tell him to ask me himself,

You might be surprised that God "also loves me" "just as he loves you" and puts up with nonsense from both of us.

However, unlike you and the Pope I do not claim infallibly. man !!! the Pope would be worried if he were to hear about you. He thought he was the only one ALLOWED to communicating with god.

OH IMPORTANT VERY VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION YOU JUST AVOIDED TO ANSWER? ? DONT BACK OUT NOW!!!


WHY DID YOU NOT ASK "god" WHY HE LIED SAYNG EXACTELY THIS "I don't do maths, man"!! "what unspeakable nonsense", it is "YOU" that cant do maths, not God

Here is the last one why don't you do math

Now that's funny.................

Why

Let me say it to himself

Ok go ahead

Alan............I don't do math...............I am MATH, I am the precision of the universe, the accuracy and timing of processes so clearly seen all over, the balance in nature and order and balance of all things found in this your earth. I do not do math, as a cheap trick to convince you of my existence, I do not need to prove myself to you with a sleight of hand, for surely If you have chosen not to believe, you will find another problem for me to solve. Peoplke chose to believe in me or choose to disbelieve. If you do not believe in me as David describes me.....thats ok, but leave him be. He is like a child and talks to me as a child, it is his choice......unless you become like a little child you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.........Do you have a problem with that? Touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm.....in word or deed. In other words Alan..............play nice, and if you want to talk to me yourself all you have to do is ASK, and I will answer you and show you great and mighty things that you know not off, I meant it when I said I LOVE YOU as if you were the only soul on earth.

Wow

You like that

Very ............interesting, well I will post it now.

OK

So I will talk to you later

Yea do that......It has been too long.......I really liked our little chats

Yea maybe I should start again

Its up to you......as you know......Free will and all that Jazz

Ha thanks Bye

Bye