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cool  I'll do that.  It was weird, I was thinking about what someone told me once about trying to locate your center.  Meaning, find where "you" are which is most likely not in your head but more down near your throat.  I felt like that for a few minutes and then I remembered that I liked to try to see depth in the blackness and man, as soon as I focused on that BAM!!!  I was in crazy land!  Spinning out of control and it almost made me feel sick.  

Kozzi

No idea.  Sorry.  I've flown up to the outer edges of the atmosphere and hung over the earth.  I've been to Jupiter as well, and felt the incredible distance, but I didn't feel like my head was going to explode.  Maybe you're just getting excited?

Kozzi

Beavis,

You gave an example of going back in time and compared what we have now to what we had then, in technology.  And you're saying that, as a comparison, ESP experiences are much more advanced or, how did you say it, the "kind of exponential complexity knowledge I can learn now", and that you can't learn anymore from Earthly human experience.  How the hell do you think we got to computers from water wheels?  Don't spread this kind of stuff man, and don't limit yourself.  It's very possible that ESP is our next frontier, and would expand our Earthly experience not just some esoteric "Astral World" experience.  It might sound as though I'm lashing out, but I believe you're making a mistake and I'm just in the mood to say something today.  Sorry.  No hard feelings...  please.

Kozzi
Kozzi

hehehe...   the voices are fun huh?  

quote:I mean it saying "Follow me." just creeped me out.

You sound like me  I've had a hard time with that before, the voices and stuff.  I just decided that I don't have to be scared.  I can't really tell you any more than that.  Just don't be scared.  It's exciting though isn't it?  Like everyone's saying though, just relax.  Honestly, if you're reaching the point at which you're hearing voices and possibly experiencing the "ringing" or some paralysis then you're very very close...  just don't give up!  Don't decide to go to sleep because you've been laying there too long.  Maybe you already know all of this stuff...  

Kozzi

Mohamed,

You're definately close to OBE.  It's funny that you call it "shaking eyelids".  When I was first trying AP I noticed this feeling too, and I wonder if my eyelids were just opening.  Eventually, you're just going to "pop" out!!!   By the way, if you want to do it...  AP I mean...  don't just decide you want to go to sleep, keep trying.  You were closer than you can imagine!

Kozzi

hehehehhe!!!!   You're definately close!  Stick with it!  It's funny that you bring up the epileptic thing.  I kind of thought of something like that too my first time, but then I guess everyone kind of does.  I worried that I was going to mess my brain up somehow, but don't worry.  You're completely safe.  Have fun!

Kozzi

chunk,

You're definately feeling the beginning stages of an OBE when you feel that "wavering" feeling.  My advice is:  don't try to get out right then. Just let that feeling take control of you.  I find that if you try too hard to direct yourself at that point you can easily lose it.  

Kozzi

Yeah, maybe you should have posted it somewhere else, but the answer to your question is yes!!!!   That is the beginning of an OBE!  

Kozzi

Absolutely!  Affirmations really do help a lot.  I say to myself, "I am going to become aware of the fact that I'm dreaming tonight."  That's different from saying "I am lucid when I dream".  I like that, Cainam_Nazier.  I will try that sometime.  Anyway, I tend to respond well to any type of auto-suggestion such as these, and with combining auto-suggestion (affirmations) with keeping a dream journal and doing reality checks during the day I tend to have more lucid dreams.  Here's something you guys might not have thought about, and it works really well for me.  Do your auto-suggestion all day!  

Kozzi

Slap a nicotine patch on before you go to sleep...  

Kozzi

Most people are not talking about excitement due to some incredible event during a dream.  The excitement generally referred to is of realizing that you're dreaming and being amazed at the feeling and clarity of the experience.  I will generally have a hard time controlling my excitement upon realizing that I'm dreaming.  I have to keep telling myself to calm down or I will come out of the lucid dream or OBE very quickly.  Of course, there are methods that can supposedly help control this, but I've not had enough experience to try those methods.    

Kozzi

I kind of contradicted myself.  I said the wake-up-go-back-to-bed method was most successful, but then that staying up until I could no longer stay awake was more effective.  It's true, it was definately more effective, but not very practical for obvious reasons.  

Kozzi

No, I know...   I can do it if I wish, but I get lazy sometimes.  I've had several lucid dreams so far, but I was just wondering what method you used.  So, it turns out that you used the wake-up-go-back-to-bed method.  It's a funny name for a method, but it happens to be the most successful method I've ever used.  I happened on another method the other day that I've not heard anyone mention.  I stayed up all night one night until I just couldn't stay awake any longer.  When I went to bed I used the typical auto-suggestion techniques.  This worked really well, in fact it worked much better than the wake-up-go-back-to-bed method has ever worked for me.

Kozzi

Try to stay awake while passively watching the images behind your eyelids.  When I say passively, I mean don't try to hold an image...  just let them come and go as they will.  If you can stay awake long enough the images will become clearer and clearer until you can basically "step out" into a dream.  Try it!

Kozzi

I absolutely agree with yellowsubmarine.  I'm not sure, though, if what you had was a lucid dream or just visualization.  I'm also not sure if visualization can't necessarily become lucid dreams...   do you follow me?  It's really up to you to compare your experience with others who've had LDs.  We can't really know exactly what your experience was.  You should have been rather amazed with the reality of your experience.  I'm sure that even practiced LDers will agree that everytime is just as amazing as the first, so I believe that's pretty good criteria to follow.

Kozzi

By the way, what method did you use?

Kozzi

 That's great!  Was that your first time?  Isn't it absolutely amazing?  Now, why do you think we can do that?

Kozzi

Yes, more detail is definately good.  I'm not real great at LDing, but I know I can have them when I wish...   all I have to do is start my dream journal again.  I would even draw pictures of places or events I could recall.  Eventually, I'm writing so much stuff that I get tired of doing it, but I sure have lucid dreams because of it.  It's just hard to keep doing it because my hand hurts.  I'm considering getting a laptop, but I think writing with your hand actually helps you remember things much better.  I believe there was a study done about this in psychology...

Kozzi

I really don't think I think of my physical body.  I hear people talk about buffer zones, and I wonder if that's what I'm experiencing.  Because, when I do get out it's like I get far enough and I feel like I'm almost being squeezed out to a short distance from my body.  Then it's easy, as long as I remain focused, but my trips don't last long, and I can't see that well.  

Kozzi

I might try that.  It happened to me again this weekend, but just like the other night I found myself awake in bed with my legs waving back and forth like a fish tail...   I knew right then that I could have left my body, but I was too tired to be interested in doing it then.  I wouldn't say I was upset with myself this morning, but I wish I had left my body.  Oh well... maybe next time.

Kozzi

Ok cool...  I'm pretty sure it was an OBE although I have my own questions that I must answer for myself about it.  I don't have nearly enough experience.  The OBE I had before this last one sent me flying through the roof and up to the outer atmosphere.  I was looking down at the Earth!  God, it was so beautiful.

Kozzi

That sounds a lot like a dreamsign, I actually did something like that last night.  I tried to use my dreamsign (flying), but that never happened.  Instead, I found myself looking into a mirror at my own reflection.  As soon as I realized that I was dreaming the image became quite clear but distorted.  Does that make sense?  Clear but distorted?

Kozzi

sorry, I'm not with it this morning...   I wobbled back up to a sitting position over my body and bed.

Kozzi

I fell down through the bed, but wobbled back up in a slipping position over my body and bed.  I did not see any cord, but I didn't really have time or the interest to think about it.  

Kozzi

Well, I guess I made a mistake in judgement when I had my first OBE several years ago.  I was trying to AP and eventually did, but lost control and found myself suddenly back in my back with incredibly intense vibrations going on.  I made myself calm down and started to twist out of my body.  It was my first time (and one of my only times actually feeling the leaving sensation) so I was really scared that my body would break in half!  Then, it was as if all the feelings and sounds began to heighten to a point that I almost couldn't take anymore and then BAMMM!!!  I was out.  Actually, I found myself standing in a warehouse holding a container.  I threw the container over the floor and watched it just glide through the air at any speed I wished.  I believe this experience was a lucid dream.  For a long time I thought that it was an OBE, but I'm almost certain it was a LD now.  I don't have a lot of experience though, so it could have been anything.  

Kozzi