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Listener,

As to being religious, there is a thread called Agnosticism and Atheism in World Religions that is well worth reading.

Also, The Voice of Silence has done a great deal of work on verifying his OBE and astral experiences. I don't know how to link them. You might try a search for him and use "verification" as a keyword.

Major Tom is right -- there is no way you are going to "prove" a lot of the things we experience. (That doesn't mean we should quit trying!)  

I made a few posts on this topic you might want to look at. Do a search for anesthesia and me and that should get you there.

Major Tom, that was an awesome post by Stone! Makes me wonder if he has had any more of them.

I was just cruising some old topics and decided this one still looks good! Anyone have any additions?  

Staceyc_330,

Pardon me for butting in here, but imo, Regret is not who she says she is, and she is not who you need right now.

I have no clue if the above is just my own opinion or if a guide (or someone/something else) encouraged me to say it -- you make the call.

I would encourage you to make a practice of recalling your dreams and keeping a log of them. It is tedious and sometimes maddening. In my case, I get glimpses of what I call "meaningful" dreams, along with a whole lot of just routine dream images. However, that is where reality will come from.

By the way, if you are hearing voices, or a voice, supposedly telling you things in a non-dream setting, I would be very cautious about it.

Good luck!

That sounds like a pretty neat experience, except for the unpleasantness in the middle. This also sounds very much like a dream related by Heather (Almost Mrs. Murphy).

It makes me wonder if there might really be something/somebody out there that gives a rat's patootie about us. But, that might be stretching things a bit too far!  

Kiwibonga,

You have given me a good idea. Perhaps the only way to solve these puzzles is to request clarification and see what happens.

Novice, I appreciate your thoughts as well. You are very correct when you say that symbology is pretty specific to the individual. Figuring it out is hard work though!  

This isn't the first meaningful dream that has been cryptic. Some months back I had one with just as strong a message, saying I must "get beyond childhood." However, it didn't explain whether I just need to "grow up," or whether there is an instance from my childhood that I need to put behind me. I am still working on that one!  

Here is part 2:

Owls are a symbol of wisdom and psychic powers, but they are also symbols of death. In this case, we had an unexpected death in the family about a month after the dream, and about a week after the second owl died.

If the dream and the owls were trying to tell me about that pending event, then they fell way short of the mark. I cannot see any way I could have drawn that conclusion from the signs I was given. That's one reason I phrased my question the way I did. I felt like if someone here could pick up on the meaning, then perhaps I should have as well. Since no one did, I feel better about it.

Thanks folks!

Inguma and MisterJingo, compliments to you both on the way you are handling this discussion. You both sound like knowledgeable, well read folks and both have some valid points. Posts like yours are very interesting reading!   I also greatly appreciate you avoiding personal name-calling and the like. Keep up the good work!

All I can add is personal opinion -- admittedly not worth much.  

We know absolutely that natural selection is real. Evolution (meaning mutational changes rather than selective breeding) is harder to demonstrate, but signs are there that it might exist. Science has done so much with genetic manipulation, I am almost afraid to think what they would do if we found the answer to genetic mutation!  

I don't discount that some intelligent agent may have first seeded life on Earth. However, it is just as likely that everything on Earth resulted from chance chemical reactions. Not as good for the ego, but quite possible.

IMO, we will never know how everything first began.  No matter how far back we go, there is always the question, "What happened before that?" For instance, given that the Big Bang is valid, what existed before that -- what caused it?

If a group has developed their own runes, it could mean anything. It looks like someone drew the figure, then lit it. Do you know if that was the case? Do you know anyone in the group?

I don't really know if there is a part 2 -- that's the problem. The dream and owl occurrences could have been totally unrelated to anything. I am hoping there are folks on this board who have some experience in this field and can help interpret.

Folks, I need your help in sorting out a recent experience I had.

Around the first of February I had a strong dream, the focus of which was "Pay attention." In the dream a guide (baseball instructor/coach) told me that very few people paid attention. Then he made the point that I should pay attention. That theme was all through the dream.

About a week or so later, while walking, I came across a newly dead owl. There was no sign of how it met its end. It was there for a few days, then disappeared. Say two weeks after that, in the exact same spot, I found a second newly dead owl, same species, same story. That one, too, disappeared after a few days.

I did not attach any significance to the owls, other than regret that they died and frustration that I did not collect a few feathers before they disappeared. I did not connect them to my "pay attention" dream at all. Perhaps I should have.

Yes, there is more to the story than I am telling here, but for now, what do you folks think this was trying to tell me? Was the dream connected to the owls?  The whole thing, from dream to second owl, played out over about a month.

Heather, this is where my rational mind is way confused.

Any comments will be appreciated.

Your last post is so funny! In your wolf dream, I wonder what you would do if you met a cat?

I can relate. I think I would rather be wolf than bird -- and I don't even know what kind of bird I was, yet.  

Seriously though, this is just one more indication that this kind of dream may be real -- or a reflection of what once was real. (I am talking physical reality here). Otherwise, we would be what we liked most, or were most familiar with.

It sounds like you have captured the emotions of the flying dreams in yours. It's that intense joy, euphoria, etc. Of course, that doesn't mean you won't have a flying dream. I think they are an unusual occurrence for most everyone.

Tvos/David,

Your site looks great, so far! I like the contrasting text and background color -- makes it easier on bad eyes!  

If I read you right, you and Katie are about to be parents? Has that happened yet?   That could derail your astral journeys for a bit!  

One question: what is soul retrieval? Don't know if this is the appropriate place for the question; if not let me know and I will start a new thread or pm you -- your preference.

By the way, welcome back! I was beginning to get worried. You are one of a few folks on this board with a serious interest in this stuff and comments worth reading!  

WoCkLe,

Don't be discouraged, why do you think Gandolf and Professor Dumbledore have that gray hair!  

It sounds like you may be just trying too hard. You have gotten some good advice already and I can't add much. I would just say don't spend too long each day consciously trying to OBE. Believe me, stranger things than that can happen during a "normal" meditation!  

Now this next one is going to sound weird, but here goes anyway. If you are in school, work your brain and learn as much as you can. Some say  the brain is like a muscle; the more we exercise it, the better it functions. Logically then, if you challenge your brain in one area, it extends to other areas. I am not explaining this well, but it seems to be working for me.

Also, you might Google for "image streaming" and see if one of those techniques are helpful. They are free and just require practice. Again though, don't push too hard. You can't force it.

Bottom line, the journey we are on is a long one. There are no instant answers. This is not like a TV show or a game, and it is not possible to cheat.

Good luck and hang in there!

GG,

"Myth is the secret opening through which the inexhaustible energies of the cosmos pour into human cultural manifestation" - Joseph Campbell

That is a great quote, and totally true IMO! If we can discover the realities in our myths, then our greatest potential will be realized. However, it is a long, hard road -- at least for me.  

Also, I agree with Stookie and Selski. It sounds like you had a really neat experience!

James, I am with you 100%! Otherwise we are circling this track for no reason at all and I for one could do without it!

Leilah, that is my point. I am also learning things in this life and have no real memories of past lives. So what happens when we die and come around again? Are we learning the same thngs over and over? I am sure that math student goes home some days very happy with what he/she learned. But the next day is it all to do again?  :confused:

Joker, way cool!

I have had a few such very real dreams, only I was either a bird or it was a flying dream.

If I understand you, you could genuinely feel the play of muscles as you moved in wolf form, feel the way the air moved around you, the ground under your pads. In other words, if your dream was like mine, every sense you had reflected being in the body of the wolf. Was that it?

I believe dreams like this reflect what we once really experienced. How could we possibly know so intensely how it feels to be in another form if we have not actually been in that form at some time?!

I am totally convinced that some "when" I was a bird. There is no reason I can see why you are not recalling an existence as a very real wolf!

James, you raise an interesting point -- and question. If the point of living multiple lives is to learn and grow, then why do we not clearly remember each prior life? If you were learning math and each new day you forgot the previous day's lesson, how could you possibly learn?!  :confused:

To me, this has a strong relationship to your post about idiots abounding. The threat is clear, but your dream didn't give you any guidance.

Again only my opinion, but I think this dream was your subconscious (call it what you will) telling you that it is aware of the situation. Not very helpful I know, but if was easy anyone could do it!  

Seriously, this may be a good time to ask for guidance from your dreams -- can't hurt, might help.  

Cainam_Nnazier,

I can sympathize! It does seem that as years pass, everything involves a bigger battle than it once did. I am not talking about getting older, but just everyday events in life. When I tell myself "Stop whining, other people have bigger problems than you do," I can acknowledge that truth but it doesn't help.

There is a theory around that says we are here to learn lessons -- sometimes it seems like that may be the case. An example:

I try to recall my dreams and at night routinely ask for guidance or teaching. Not long ago I did this, and perhaps some impatience came through. At any rate, I dreamed I was walking through a baseball (I don't play) training center with a coach. I could clearly see a fast ball come in that a batter missed because he couldn't see it. I asked the coach why the batter missed such an easy ball. The response was that people just don't pay attention. The coach then added, "You, too, need to pay attention! Just pay attention!"

That dream was so forceful, and the message so clear, that I had no trouble at all remembering it. It has sent me to the drawing board to consider what is happening in my life.

I am going to increase my efforts to understand and see if I can learn some lessons here, whether the theory is correct or not.

Now, if I can just learn to pay attention!  

Perhaps the friend who reads cards is getting a good message. If you can learn what your life experiences are trying to teach, then you should be much happier. At least, that's what I keep telling myself...

Folks, my hubby has entered a writing contest that is more on the line of who you know than how well you write. But, I think he writes pretty well too.

If anyone is inclined, I would appreciate it if you would take a peek at his contribution. He is #340 on this website:

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/13367692.htm

His entry is on page 12. If anyone would care to vote for the boy, it would be most appreciated. The voting ends today. Sorry for the tight deadline, but hope you can help.

Thanks to all who take the time to read this!  

Well, you gave me goose bumps!  

Yes, dreams can be much more than "just dreams." I've had a couple lately I am still chewing on. One gave me a strong message that in order to progress I have to move beyond childhood. I can't figure out if it means there is something in my childhood I need to get over or if it means I am still in some type of childhood and just need to grow up.  :confused:

And then last night I had one that clearly said "Pay Attention!" It also told me that most folks don't pay attention and therefore don't see what is right before them. Unfortunately, the only answer I have right now is: Pay attention to what??!!

By the way, Heather is a very pretty name.

I recently had my first experience with sleep paralysis. I woke up during the night with one hand laying up near my shoulder. When I tried to move it there was just no way. I can't say whether my whole body was paralized or just my hand and arm.

I didn't get scared but rather pretty mad. I hate being told "You Can't," especially by my own body!  :confused: My reaction was: "Oh yeah? Well, hide and watch!" I struggled with it for a few minutes (or maybe just seconds) and apparently dropped back to sleep -- never did get a reaction from my hand.

I have wondered before whether sleep paralisis is just the lazy, choose not to move sensation I get regularly. I guess that is one of those DIABOL dream states!  

TDChakra,

Actually, there has been some investigation of alternative medicine (not straight spiritual) for healing cancer. A couple of years ago there was a Dateline episode about it. They asked the Dali Lhama's personal physician to come to New York and work with a regular MD to cure several women with Stage IV cancer. He was allowed to use a limited number -- I think about 70 -- of the herbs he would normally use. This was because that was all the FDA had time to look at before the treatments began.

This herbal doctor was told nothing about any of the women. He examined each of them and made his own diagnosis. He then counseled each of them and gave them herbs he thought they needed. Their tumors were tracked by conventional radiology during the course of one year. The results were mixed at the end of the year. One woman dropped out, a couple got worse, and a couple improved. There were no "miracle" cures -- that was not the focus of the show.

It was a fascinating show, and the results revealed the promise of alternative therapy. The problem though, is how you could be certain of finding a doctor of his caliber in our everyday world?! There are 100 phonies for every real practitioner, and likely 100 real practioners whose skill isn't up to a serious illness. Very few of us have the resources Dateline had -- to spend a fortune combing the earth for a genuinely skilled healer!

James,
You made a comment that one person was cured, but apparently chose not to have his cure documented because it might be too much trouble. I guess my answer to that is that we either believe in this stuff or we do not. If we truly believe, as I do so far, that our mind and our connection with the energy sea can cure most of our ailments, then we should not hesitate to have those cures confirmed. It's called "walking the walk"!

The Voice of Silence is big into documenting and, so far as possible, proving, the things he experiences. I am all for it!

If Nita still visits this forum she can help you get a copy.

Piers Anthony calls them daydreams -- brought by daymares!

For me it is not unusual to have emotions attached to dreams. My flying dreams (sadly rare these days) bring tremendously joyous feelings. And, of course, the occasional bad dream will leave me depressed, frightened, or whatever emotion attaches to it.

It sounds lovely (no pun intended!); I hope you have many more!

The point could also be made that this physical plane is not only our real home, but the only thing we have. All of our mental and astral experiences could be nothing more than abilities made possible by the physical body (brain, nerves, electrical conductivity, etc.).

For the record, I am not saying that the metaphysical things we experience are not "real." As I've said before, I think folks confuse themselves tremendously by throwing that "real" word around too much.

I have had a few "real" mind-blowing experiences in the metaphysical realm. I can't explain them and am still trying to recapture and improve on them. However, the pure unvarnished fact remains that any experience we have could result from physical causes -- including NDEs, OBEs, mind-reading -- the whole bunch.

Right now, if I had to vote today, I would say the physical world is all there is. But I would be delighted to be proven wrong!  :confused: