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Franks disappearance is a mystery and the Mods seem to like it that way.

maybe something to consider is :

some neurologists point to experiments in the context of treatment of epilepsy involving electrical stimulus of a particular part of the brain, the right angular gyrus located in the parietal lobe, which produce subjective experiences having all of the hallmarks of an OBE, including the sense of enhanced reality and extreme disembodiment. This evidence, as well as similar results involving use of the drug ketamine, support the hypothesis that at least some OBEs are caused by an unusual but natural brain state in which one's body perception and sense of reality are altered.

So maybe you can trigger OBE by stimulating the angular gyrus?

Also I think crucial to OBE might be Sleep paralysis maybe you can find a way to artificially induce that?

[Tombo read this post by Frank and see if theres anything you like:

"Having a lucid-dream is basically the Monroe Focus 22 state, only with a reduced level of conscious awareness. Focus 22 is the first proper realm where thought-equals-direct-action. I say "proper" because, technically, this thought/action effect comes about at the Physical-to-Astral bridge-zone at mental Focus 21.

I agree wholeheartedly with Daniel in his point that one of the biggest challenges is to conciliate formal mechanical logic with multidimensional logic. This hurdle is presented by the fact that, when we project, we don't in turn develop some super-sense of conscious awareness all primed and geared for Astral use. On the contrary, the sense of conscious awareness you take with you to the Astral is the very same one you have now. All of which means you tend to behave like a fish out of water the first 10 or 20 times you project.

To help overcome this hurdle, you need to gain a fair degree of understanding about the basic nature of the Astral environment, and the different ground-rules that apply. We have to gain familiarity with these basic rules in much the same way as we do when first entering the Physical. For example, perhaps the one most basic Physical rule (we gain familiarity with rather quickly!) is that no two physical things can occupy the same physical space.

A person who could not get the hang of this basic rule would forever have difficulties. Not only would they be forever bumping into things, pursuits such as driving a car, for instance, would be nigh on impossible.

Same thing applies with Astral exploration where, without an understanding of the basic ground rules, people will keep running into difficulties.

One of the main difficulties is presented by the fact that releasing emotions within the Astral environment acts as a kind of fuel that goes to creating the circumstances that surround you. This is a *tricky* one to overcome because these circumstances can seem just as real, and equally as lifelike, as circumstances are within the Physical. So if you release a little fear (very common) you will instantly find yourself in a mildly fearful circumstance.

Problem is, finding yourself all of a sudden in a scary situation will normally have the effect of making you even more fearful. So the situation will instantly become that much more scary; which makes you more scared; so it gets that much more scary; which makes you even more scared; so it gets that much more scary; and so on, and so on.......

If that were not bad enough, there is another basic rule which says, "Your experiences and/or circumstances are primarily governed by your expectations." Therefore, if you expect to encounter demons and dragons... then demons and dragons you shall encounter.

But that's not all. There's another basic rule which says, "like instantly attracts like." So it won't only be you having these horrific experiences. Chances are, you'll be surrounded by countless others all suffering the same fate.

Such a group concensus will naturally have the effect of reinforcing your beliefs to a high degree. Bringing into play the basic rule which says, "Your ability to perceive is proportional to your willingness to believe." In other words, the more you believe the Astral is a nasty and dangerous place, the more readily you will perceive it as such.

Bearing all this in mind, you need then to be careful how you go about things... else all manner of reality fluctuations can come about. For example, it is only natural that you should question your experiences. This is a great way to make progress provided the questioning aspect comes about as a result of natural curiosity. Over years of trial and error, I found the best most productive mental state to have while within the Astral realms: is to remain emotionally neutral, while maintaining a natural air of mild curiosity.

However, if the questioning comes about as a result of Doubt, then you need to be ever mindful of the fact that any release of thoughts of Doubt - while within the Astral - will instantly lead to you experiencing circumstances that support whatever level of Doubt you are feeling.

Then, just like in my release of fear example above, finding yourself all of a sudden in a situation where your doubts are justified, will normally have the effect of making you feel even more doubtful; so your circumstances will instantly become such that your doubts are reinforced all the more; which in turn makes you doubt all the more still; and so on, and so on.......

It's unfortunate that now and again I come across a person who once managed to successfully project to the Astral and subsequently concluded that it was all some kind of brain-generated fantasy.

We had someone come onto this BBS last year who was adamant on this. From reading into where they were coming from, it was obvious the person had been projecting to the Focus 22 state while releasing feelings of doubt. Of course, this person's doubts were immediately reinforced each time to the extent where they became utterly convinced their doubts were 110% genuine. All of which then blinded this person to the facts about what had truly taken place.

As for wanting "proof" and such like. A popular idea is the one about having someone else place a playing card or some other object out of sight, and so forth. But what I would suggest is you learn to become more proficient at projection and all the proof you can handle will be fed to you by the bucketload.

Yours,
Frank"

Thx Ben K

You seem to have a good overview of Franks posts , which is good I mean he is my personal hereo sorts of. So whenever I'm looking for something Frank may have written about I shall talk to you first    

And Yes I found the things Frank explains very interesting! Indeed i had I slight feel of doubt in my mind when I did the experiements so maybe the Butterfly appeared to reflect that feel?

I will try to stay as neutral as possible next time

thanks you all and cu Tom

["target object"]

Hi Tombo, just a couple of ideas:

- What if you place more than one object, and not a single one? Perhaps you could use a combination of different objects (even papers of different colours?). Will all of those objects be equally distorted?

- Could you try to place the different objects not too close together, maybe a little or a lot farther apart, or on top of different pieces of furniture? Perhaps there are areas in your room that are more prone to present distortions than other ones?

I say this because William Buhlman relates in his book (Adventures beyond the body) that in his living room there were several tables, and some of them appeared just the same as in the physical plane, but another one did not (It looked like a very old table, or of a different style).

- By the "target object" (the one you don't know what it is), you could place a "reference object" (an object that you already know what it is). This is a similar idea as the "reference numbers" we place in front of the two words of the Agnostic Method, see this link:

- Method to verify if OBE are real or imaginary experiences. Post #
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20907

Read the section titled: "2- Hints to help the projector reading the words correctly:"

Brief excerpt:

A) Write in front of the words 2 distinct numbers that the projector (the one having OBEs) already knows before hand from the physical plane (he can even choose this numbers himself) in order to help him "focus" better on the words. If the projector is not able to recognize the numbers (while in the OBE state) that he already knew from the physical plane, that will be a sign that something is going wrong, and vice versa. For example, the projector already knows the numbers 25 and 47, but not the words, so we would write in the paper something like this:

25 HORSE
47 DOOR

Un saludo, qbeac.

Yes good ideas I will think about it. actually I expect even the number that i know to have distortions. i already observed that fact in the past. Things that I exactly knew how they should look like were distorted.

But good ideas I should give them a try.

Cu Tom

[of at least three different ways to try to obtain proof]

Hi Tombo, first of all, thank you very much for posting your experiments, I find them very interesting and helpful to anybody who might attempt similar tests.

Let me give you a few brief ideas that just occurred to me about it:

- To begin with, I must say I am not an expert with AP, so I could not tell you what is best to do to try to avoid the distortions between the physical plane and the astral plane. I wish some experienced projectors could give some wise advice about it: useful techniques, mental control, mental power, etc.

- In the Spanish Science forum we have thought of at least three different ways to try to obtain proof of the "reality" of these experiences (*1):

1) Watching the physical plane while you are in the astral plane and reporting on it correctly (that's what you are trying to do now). If this could be done, it would be great because it is the simplest experiment. However, it presents the difficulty of the distortions between the astral and the physical planes: the problem of the RTZ (Real Time Zone).

2) Group OBE. Trying to communicate with another person who is also in the astral plane with you (Ex: two experienced projectors... or anybody, really). That way, even if you don't meet with that person in the physical plane (perhaps you could meet with him/her in other planes?), you could still communicate with him/her and exchange relevant information that could be verified later, like in this example:

- "Faraway can be so close..." (Post #1):
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17261

3) Moving physical objects while you are in the astral plane. There are many types of experiments that could be set up if this could be done. For instance, you could use an Analog to Digital Convertor (ADC) to convert the analog signals (of the moving objects) into digital signals that could be input and saved in a computer ("0" and "1"). That's like writing in the hard disk of a computer. We've talked about it in this thread:

- Can you move a physical object from the astral plane?
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21202
Check comments from AstralBorn in page 4 and 5:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21202&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=30

One question: did you try to touch, move or pick up the butterfly or the bee?

In another post I will make further comments about the three methods.

Un saludo. qbeac.

(*1) Note: when I say "the reality of these experiences", I mean "reality" from the reference point of the physical plane, because in theory there could be other planes just as real as the physical one. So we are taking about "relative realities."

Thx Qbeac

right know I believe that number one is the easiest method therefore I stick to that. i could try to contact my girlfriend next time though. may try that .-)

And yes I did pick up the bee, the butterfly fluttered away........

I like that:

(*1) Note: when I say "the reality of these experiences", I mean "reality" from the reference point of the physical plane, because in theory there could be other planes just as real as the physical one. So we are taking about "relative realities

Who cares if you missed the intended target..whoohooo for you Tombo!!  Don't cha just love that "crawling" away? hehe..

Take Care!

Nay

Yes I'm addicted to it hehe....

I wish ya'll would stop with the tests and just enjoy yourselves.

Why?

First you had a dream then you became lucid (=Lucid dream) then the dream ended and you had exit sensations but did not completly seperate.

So you experienced a short lucid dream and exit sensations preluding an Obe that never occured  

[Experimental Setting]

Hello everybody

Once again i did a verification experiment. I will just describe what happened and then we can discuss it.

Ok

Experimental Setting

My girlfriend placed a object on top of the wardrobe. This can be anything, but it should be fairly small, 3-dimensional and unique. She used things like a needle, hair clip, or a ball of wool in the past.

Why this setting?

I use this setting because  to me it seems very difficult to guess the object since it can virtually be anything. At least the chance to guess is way smaller then, for example guessing a playing card.
I also figured, it may be easier to perceive a real object compared to a abstract number for example. Also the goal of this experiments is not to proof anything but to explore the possibility of proof.

Outcome
I already did this experiment a couple of times in the past. Did it again twice this morning and the outcome is comparable each time.

Ok so here we go:

1. attempt

I awoke in the morning and still felt the sleep paralysis, so I figured this may be a good opportunity to project. I managed to "crawl" away from me body and moved to the living room (where the wardrobe is at) after about 30 sec my sight became brighter and I saw the wardrobe in front of me (the projection was weak, I almost lost focus a couple of times). I picked the bowl where the object was placed in and looked at it. To my surprise a Butterfly fluttered inside the bowl. I was aware of the fact, that it is highly unlikely that my girlfriend placed a butterfly inside the bowl, but I hoped that the real target may have a relation to a butterfly. That very moment I was pulled back to me body.

I did not move and managed to split from my body again

2. Attempt

I again moved to the wardrobe and this time remembered that Robert bruce once said, I should try to pull energy to the astral body trough breathing to enhance clarity. I did so and felt I vibrating sensation on my forehead (brow chakra)
I again looked inside the bowl and the my surprise saw a living bee that was humming there . I clearly say the yellow orange color of the bee with black sparkles.

What was the real target?

The real target was a tube of skin cream?! even with fantasy i can't find any match between a Butterfly a bee and skin cream :confused:

Questions

-Am I doing something wrong?
- what could I do to perceive the real object?
-what interpretations and conclusions can i draw from this experiments?
-any hints, ideas, suggestions, comments?

remark

After the second attempt a flow out of the window. There a saw a freeway right behind our house (in reality there is no freeway within 3 miles)
I found this perfectly normal. It didn't even cross my mind that there is no such freeway in reality. it actually felt very familiar! perfectly normal.

Was I not enough aware to do the experiments properly?

Best Regards Tom and sorry for the long post

It seems a bit foolish to me to believe you could find cold hard facts on this questions on the internet

But good luck anyway, Tom

Sure,here is the adress:

FRANK J. KEPPLE

6 Grand Rue, 83690 Salernes, France

[Although i believe that you guys actually saw the real correct card!]

this is a nice experience well done! I'm looking forward to your next experiment

If you can you should notify successful and have your experience added to the perm post she created. Also, please add this to my post too.

I'm gonna suck I know, but I find that a bad idea.

Just posting the successful experiences on such threads will bias the results. Sure it is nice to read, so I can understand that. But from a scientific viewpoint it is not right. just wanted to mention that. There is a certain chance to guess a card right (1:52= 1.92%) so this will happen from time to time. if you guys just post the hits it will falsify the results. It might look like it is possible to see the cards when it is actually just guessing.

Although i believe that you guys actually saw the real correct card! That you can call contradictoriness, lol

I once started a Topic about that:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15487

hopefully it is of help to you.............................

Tombo,
Are you sad that the tree was cut down, or that you believe you cowarded out (letting an old friend down)?

quote]

Both actually. you made some good suggestions, thx.

the ones who can do it at will an as long as they want

That would probably be the dead ones

[real physical object]

Hi AstralBorn, are you sure it is so simple? I've heard it is not so easy. Have you ever tried it? Were you able to move the physical object from the astral plane?

qbeac I have indeed tried it, And of corse I could move it... Otherwize I would not have said anything.
This is a common thing with me... I move things alot...
And I am not a liar nor am I delusional...

It is as simple as I said...
Draege believeing it cannot be done as you do is what stops you from being able to do it...

qbeac meant if you can move a real physical object while out of body. As I read your post I'm not sure if you really meant it that way. Maybe you mean, you can move a Astral Object while out of Body?! That of course is simple indeed.

Can you clarify, please?

Here are some pictures showing beech trees:

http://www.natur-lexikon.com/Texte/wp/001/00023-Buche/wp00023-Buche.html

You should really explain her why this is so important to you and what it is all about. Ask her why she can't respect that and work it out. make it really clear that it means a lot to you and that you need silent atmosphere to practice. For example she could watch TV with a headphone while a practice or so. If you explain her she should respect that and help you with your practice otherwise some more fundamental things in your relationship seem to be a little "out of tune"

We have records of indigenous people habitating my country for about 12.000 years, the land was still untouched. 500 years after the first explorers
came in we've lost 90% of the Atlantic Forest , 60 % of the Cerrado and big chunks of the Amazon Forest are burning down everyday. Now we have dirty cities producing dirty air, dirty rivers and dirty souls.

Yes Andrew, I know and it makes me sad. I guess, the fact that it happened in my own backyard now, made me realize how wrong it is. I'm really not a sissy or something, it is just about respect. We don't have respect for nature anymore. I don't wanna meet troubel halfway, but someday we will have to pay the price for that. We already do in way, as you said.
It just feels good to know that there are friends out there that feel the same way.

Cu Tom

Tombo,
I can totally sympathize!  

I am convinced that humans are doing their very best to destroy our world -- perhaps not realizing it's the only one they have!  

I would strongly suggest that you go and get something from that tree to keep: a few pieces of bark, some of the root system, some leaves, whatever strikes you. If you had an affinity for it then it could be a valuable "totem," for lack of a better word. You might consider getting a piece of wood that could be made into a necklace and other pieces just to keep in your room.

Thats an great idea! Can't believe I didn't think about that
Thx a lot! I'll do that right away

Tom

I have to tell somebody.........

I live close to a nice forest. Just about 30 meters from our house stands an very old and huge beech tree. It is very likely the most beautiful tree in the entire forest (I know the forest very well). Every since my earliest childhood I went the the tree frequently for inspiration, if a had a bad time or simply to look at his beauty etc. This tree is like apart of me. I'm very much into nature, I simply love the forest. For me this huge tree have a very special aura and meaning to me.
So I said to myself that if one day somebody is going to cut down this tree I'm not going to let that happen. I'm gonna fight for the tree, chain me to the tree or something  

So guess what, this morning I looked outside the window and I saw the forest warden preparing the tree for cut down!  Now I went to him and said that I find it a pity if they cut that tree down and if there is any way to stop that. He simply said that other trees will grow again and that this tree was sick any way (This is not true, The tree is perfectly healthy for a fact) and that they will cut it down now. And I was just too much a coward to do anything else
I just went back to my home and watched the tree fall from my window.
And now I fell so bad and very angry. I'm angry with myself and angry with our society. I just think our society has not respect for nature at all.
I'm so angry with our society right now that I think may be we should get erased!

Do know why I'm telling this, just had to tell somebody.

Tom

Thx for the NDE-report qbeac! Very interesting!

Thanks for posting this Gandalf, I really enjoyed reading. It is especially nice, since you are able to induce this kind of vivid experiences out of the dream environment. Something I'm working on as well, so it is nice to hear that it is possible. Plus i also like it because it confirms experiences from Frank and Monroe meaning that there is a objective (aspect) in this experiences.

One question: I remember Frank saying that with some practice it is easy possible to distinguish between Dream environment (F2) and F3-experiences (like the park). He said the have a different feel. Is this your experience as well?

Thanks Tom

The question is this: Is this going to be once again a debate about proof that gets nowhere or are we willing to make some progress?

So maybe anybody that is not interested in the proof question because he thinks its nonsense should probably not posting arguments here, that haven been said a hundred times.

I think the things are quite simple actually, just reads qbeac's posts about the 3levels of validation and why he thinks thats important. I agree with what he says and think it is an great and important task to try to find ways to proof OBE's on Level 3. Now I do really not understand what kind of problem some of you have with the "proof-question" I really don't get it.

I seems to me that most great astral-explorers found this subject important. Robert Monroe, Robert Bruce, Stephen Laberge, and also Frank seemed to think that it is a subject worth of consideration. Simply because a true scientist finds experiments and ideas to validate or to reject theories vital.

So why not make something constructive here? why not pool our knowledge together and try to make some progress?

empty

Maybe you are correct. But life and persons in my life "told" me (with actions, not telling directly if you get my idea) that there is no love. People act in a way that it is not very different from animals, so i will act according to that game too.

The way i act and the way women react shows me that sex is behind everything. Learn the secrets of the game and get the girls u want (even if you are a bastard). Just be very charismatic and inteligent (and in an "ok" body shape).

Observe the world around u. Maybe u can find real love somewhere, but i think this is like a Zoo . You are an animal, and you need to know how to be the alpha male (or "alpha women").

It may be true that most People act animal-like but they you think the right reaction to that is to act like an animal as well? If everybody thinks like that we will always stay animals. You might have had some bad experiences but let me tell you not all People are alike if you search a honest nice girl you will find. But maybe you don't deserve one! I mean, do you believe in Karma or things like that, to you believe in any way that your actions and thoughts will have consequences?If so think about what you do. Most People that are spiritual interested believe that they should try to overcome thier bad conditions, so if you post here in the Pulse maybe you believe the same. In that case you should think about what you do now, or maybe you will be cheated on in your next Life again?!