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I almost forgot about the vedic accounts of "Vimana's"- the divine sky chariots that sound eerily like spacecraft in the vedas.

The most famous account is from the Mahabharata, which is the story of the great Kurukshetra war between the Pandavas and Kauravas; in the climactic battle, a sky chariot (vimana) was said to have hurled a terrible weapon which decimated both sides, but the Kauravas most so, and that resembles a nuclear device in pretty much every respect of its effects and consequences- there is description of a "parisol-like cloud", a sickness which causes the hair to fall out... blinding flash... the fact that water temporarily relieves the sickness associated with it, as it does in irradiated areas; literally 8 or 9 pieces of information like that describe an atomic weapon perfectly.

It sounds very much like there has been a race of humans with technology far beyond what history would allow, or else that extraterrestrial visitors have been playing their hand at times. I suppose it could also be a coincidence, but the connection in these verses has always been uncanny to me.
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The most obvious source of this story is that whomever experienced it was adept at APing and experienced this as another reality...well short of having just made it up in their imagination.

It may well have even transpired in another Galaxy on some planet similar to Earth and may even be a collective memory from the species involved which has leaked into our own through those universal connections.

Obviously it is a past event rather than some predicted one for a future time...or it seems to be presented as such.

Right now "ET" is more than likely a product of the 'non physical reality' perhaps this is how physical beings get around the universe - by using the non physical as a portal...so maybe that is part of the plan for humanity - to study the nature of the non physical and to develop ways of using it as a portal into other parts of the Galaxy and Universe. 

Perhaps that connection can only ever be non physical interaction...because the nature of the non physical which bridges these distances which are in the physical cannot be physically experienced as in - a physical form cannot exist in a non physical reality but the consciousness which is experiencing through that physical form CAN experience the non physical and in this way connect with other consciousness in other forms in other parts of the Galaxy and physical universe THROUGH the same method.

[Subject matter:]

An interesting piece of data re shifts in reality and ET contact on a world wide scale.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VvTPwLQq6XI

Subject matter:

Change...= shifting to the preferred vibration.
Start to see through the eyes of that which you will become (are becoming)
'New Earth' reality reflecting your own vibration.
What is the world that you prefer and are you aligned with its vibration.
Often we understand 'what we are' by reflecting off that which we are not.
The more an individual understands who they are for its OWN SAKE - without needing to see a 'counter offer of what you are not, the more those things will be no more...
What is the world we each look through...
Shifting = changing the world we look through...
Infinant choices within All That Is
Allowing makes it easier for the self to experience the reality that you prefer...

The energy now - many things are shifting.
Economic and political systems
Have new systems in place ready to go when the old ones no longer work.

Old ideas fall away as the shift happens - new ideas attract to yourself invented by you and others
which can be implemented rapidly.

Economic collapse is coming but there will be things which can replace what is washed away

Never approach things (change)  with fear and event is not an event until YOU have responded to it.

Not what happens but how you respond which makes the event whatever it is you experience it to be.
Respond well to all these things and they will serve you well in you shift.

Understand the true worth/value talents and skills in a way that is not recognized by artificial symbols to represent the idea of value and exchange - the exchange between people will be sufficient.

Free Energy...will assist unifying society.

There will be an increase in the awareness and existence of ET.

Eventually open contact will occur in this shifted reality.

Open communion and contact will occur in relation to open and willing contact within your own society.

That's his Ouija and we have already tried to get him to explain it in lore detail but he won't. Personally, I would make a million of those bad boys and make a quick buck (all for charity, of course.).

Hey what!  I have been explaining in some detail in different threads!  The only personality on this board who has even asked to know more, wasn't even you Simon!

That sounds interesting.. I like your concept and I wanna know more..
1: How did you stablish a communicaton with God/higher self?
2: what's that seal? how do you use that?

1: I gave a pretty good outline as to how contact/communication evolved with higher self in my last post.  I don't think I could elaborate more without going into personal detail citing particular events, which I would be happy to do as examples of communication types...

2:  The 'seal' is a conglomerate of meaningful symbols etched onto the back of a mirror tile.  It uses the same principle as Ouija, and when I first began to use it I did so in the (Ouija) tradition of 'communicating with those who have passed on' (died) and evolved from there.  All along I was really communicating with 'higher self' which is connected with all consciousness and is both an Entity in its own right (sovereign) and connected with other Entities in their own right (sovereign) and all are united in co- creation - altogether forming The Universal Entity, which could be regarded as 'God' although Sovereign Entities are 'gods' in their own right.

I used this and other similar devices as a means of communicating with these Entities (This Entity)  

And that's what really matters.  Beautifully said!  I definitely honor and respect the journey you are on.

It is the same journey we are all on.  Worthy of honor and respect - thank you for your expressions too. 

Nice --- I don't particularly believe every belief the elders teach me about spirit travel or anything in general really, I choose what suits me best, gives me courage and take that as I go however I do identify with Ojibwe people because of the respect for mother earth and the spirits of the earth. Also because our rituals are very intense and release a lot of energy - sweatlodge ceremonies, shaketent ceremonies, Sundance, vision quests etc
I was more interested mainly in seeing the beliefs of other cultures around the world and how they practice and explain astral projection. Interesting points though.

Here is a link into one such story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81ui_(M%C4%81ori_mythology)

What about the higher beings/spirit guide, the source/God, our higher selves, do they have plans for us? for this planet?
where could all of this leading?

My own perspective based on personal experience is that the Universe does indeed recognize what is horrific, pleasant/unpleasant because it is not just the machinery making it possible for experience to been had.
It is imbued with consciousness.

I have found that one can ride the machinery of this experience and one can delve deeper into how it all works.

You can know the true intentions of the thing called 'higher self/true self - and very intimately too - like a close loving friendship and there are a number of ways in which one can commune with that aspect of the self...unknown but certainly not unknowable.

There are many experiences which Higher self is involved, and this one is not about IT graduating from the physical and thus having the credentials to experience greater and more magnificent journeys ahead.  Higher self does not judge experience in that context - marginalizing one for the other is not sourced at higher self levels- in relation to YOU, this physical universe is no more or less grandiose or preferable than any other.
It is not only experience but data produced from that experience and understanding the relationship 'spirit' has with 'physical' - and the fact that you are here within the density of this universe - suited up in your present form, gathering data of experience which can be added to the whole, more-so if that experience is focused on that objective which is your choice to do or not.

Enjoy the ride and enjoy uncovering and working with the machinery that makes the ride possible.

When I first started to think more about the experience of life I was involved with here, I was coming from a place where I had learnt to 'enjoy the ride' in order to deal with it...this involved shutting down painful memories and getting on with life - but then I entered a phase of (Christian) religion and 'God' became the first impression I had that something conscious was very interested in the physical reality we are all involved with here, and as I evolved in my understanding the relationship which formed also transformed, and the 'higher self' which was 'God' and seen as something 'outside' and not of 'me' - changed as I began to literally be instructed (through that connection) and the communication was more one way...I 'prayed' and 'the universe' answered in how things unfolded.

The interaction became more two way as I learned through observing the way serendipity and synchronicity worked together to provide these answers to questions, and letting go of those painful experiences - child abuse, racism, bullies, con artist, manipulators, control freaks, broken hearts, betrayal etc...the things that help cause physical, mental, emotional, spiritual pain - these are intimately understood by 'higher self' and there is tremendous empathy involved but also a kind of sternness which propels one into realizing that these things need to be let go of, not through hiding them and denying they ever happened, but by acknowledging that they did happen but have no power over you - I once was a victim and now I am not.

A higher self concept which cannot relate to your personal and sometimes painful journey is of no use in your healing process - no more useful than if you were to keep in denial and 'get on with life' - understanding, healing and closure are integrate and necessary to growth and personal transformation.

From 'God' I evolved my understanding as that relationship transformed - largely due to the communications process which I had developed and refined (and am still refining) as it became apparent that I could have a consistent two way communication with this 'God' which used the opportunity this method afforded to reveal by degree that it was 'me'  - a previously unknown aspect of 'me' - a 'big brother' me - a best friend, companion and confidant 'me' a 'me' that could intimately relate to my joy and pain as if...it had experienced them with 'me', which of course it had, and does...- And the communication became like talking to someone on a phone or through the internet...this is the device I used - although it was a lot more simple looking to begin with - the bulk of the symbols etc were added as the depth of the communications evolved and matured.


Like anything, one has to work at it to get the results, but be assured - your higher self is able to transmit and reflect itself (your true self) and its (your true self's) intentions back to you and you rob yourself of a great opportunity not to learn to know this or simply 'go along for the ride' when you could really get into the 'how it all works' and live your life experience being aware of these answers intimately and actively being a purposeful co-creating partner in what is unfolding here in this physical density you are experiencing.

Wi11iam, I respect your honesty.

I just returned from a show traveling on the road, so I didn't get a chance to read all of these replies when they first came in, until just now.

But we could have done without all the problems and hardships that this caused both of us, if you just would have answered the question with a simple "ET's".

No elaborate justification or explanation of any kind would have been needed.

That's all I wanted to hear. 

Not sure what you are referring to guy...justification?  Hardship and problems?  There are a few pages of this thread...perhaps you can just point me to what it is you are referring to here...??

(you know I don't go around making problems and hardships for anyone, at least not purposefully, don't you?)

What is your name btw?

It shows me enough.

Yes... there is an order and no chaos... and the internet isn't all that. You know... it's a wonder I can make any decisions or get up in the morning and make it through life without killing myself without you correcting me William.

It is nothing to wonder about Ben.  I am not correcting you, I am offering another way of looking at things.

It is becoming more chaotic. I thought that when I was younger... I think it's a general 'young' thing... to realise the world is actually a complex thing and that you as one emerging person is helpless and just a bystander waiting for the world to throw its shitt at you.

But as an adult I have personally realised that this is actually true. It is chaotic.

But then... you can attribute it to the internet and what could be deemed information overload... coupled with millions of different opinions saying this is right and that is wrong.

Also there is a great deal of extremist views... science and religion are at loggerheads... spiritualist and materialist.

I think the problem is we all have far too much time on our hands and far too much conflicting information to deal with. Cognisant dissonance is abound.

There is order and structure to be found - it takes a bit of work and coordination but what appears to be 'chaos' is really a matter of personal perspective and having time on ones hands is not the problem so much as how that time is spent.  The internet simply shows what once was only known by 'the gods' regarding human interaction but it does not show everything. 

Lately after hearing and watching the news about what's going on around the world, I can't help but felt depressed.. what's in store for our future? where will we be in our next lifetime? warzones? poluted places? the world has never been this crazy and chaotic.. I'm worried for the next generation, we could no longer deny what is happening..

What about the higher beings/spirit guide, the source/God, our higher selves, do they have plans for us? for this planet?
where could all of this leading?

sory for not so good english 

Consciousness has plans for itself in relation to this planet and this galaxy and we are part of that, as surely as we are part of consciousness.  If you find the news getting your down, turn it off and look for some good news - there is plenty out there to be found but generally it is not as popular.

Be 'good news' for yourself and those around you.  That is one of the things you can do with you life.

 

Exactly!

Which is why the practice of letting go is one of the most liberating things one can do.

Be free.  Enjoy the ride.  Journey well. 

I'm just here for the ride. 

Interesting expression.  While we all are, our 'rides' can be whatever meaningful thing we choose, or have no meaning at all.  I want my particular 'ride' to find data of experience which might assist the 'spirit' of our species - for example, if I were addicted to porn, heavey drugs and violence as my preferred 'ride' the data of experience might be of minimal use - again - if I am ticking along in a worker role raising a family, paying a mortgage, that particular data may be as useful as the first example.

Again, if I use an ability to traverse the integrate realities (AP) and fight dragons or play war-games, or hang out in malls or have sex etc...the data of experience may still be of little to no value.

Therefore a particular type of data is of value - one which allows us as individuals to explore the 'deeper meaning stuff' associated with their ride, in relationship to the collective 'ride'.



This attitude derives from ego-personalities understanding the importance of 'who they are' in relation to their shared reality with others in whatever existence of experience they are involved, rather than focus on the importance of their solitary life or the particular group (family, friends, like-minded etc) to which their 'ride' consists of.

One thing for sure, one can't easily get to the realization that ego-personality is not the center of the universe of its experience (ride) without going through that phase...riding through it joyously rather than getting stuck in the role of... 

Theres all kinds of different dimensions and shapes and flowing patterns out there. It can of course look different to different observers. We know that from relativity in spacetime and similar things when observing the quantum. But just because it appears different to some than others does not mean there is no shared reality to it. Astral Pulse Island, for example, has many branches that network into and out of eachother, variations of it that grew as people visited and added onto it. But still some of us met there and described our shared experiences to eachother after we got back so we knew it was real.

There must be some continuous path between "physical" reality and astral. There may be different equations of physics that change gradually between them, but there has to be some way it all works.

We should be trying to understand the continuous paths between all parts of reality.

Dualism is the theory that there are 2 different kinds of reality that can not be converted to eachother. Its like the old idea that mass and energy are different kinds of things, but they are converted by the lorentz factor as a ratio based on speed. Similarly, we should be looking for the ways these observed different kinds of things dualism is about can be continuously travelled between them.

Universe means "Everything that exists." The physical exists. The astral exists. Both are part of the universe. How could there be any 2 parts of the universe which can't be travelled continuously between? Together it should all sum to zero and be balanced from all angles.

I do not want to have to choose between the worlds. I like astral and the other forms of reality out there more than the physical, but I see others around here stuck by the gravity of these forms and they don't even know other things exist so I build tools to try to network minds together (research in progress), and I think theres alot of potential in this world once we learn to merge space, time, and metaphysics using both machines and our metaphysical skills. But I don't know if they are ready to reduce the gravity of these forms and allow things to spread out in more directions like they do in astral. As a telekinetic at rare times, who used to be more skilled at it, I've seen the worlds merge a little. I know its there somewhere. I don't know if we can be compatible between these worlds, you might call them worlds, but a start is to at least agree there is some continuous path between the worlds that forms from either side can move to the other. I'm here at least for now to finish what I started in the bizarre research, but if it comes down to it and I can only exist primarily in one, I think I'd choose the astral.

Your concerns expressed here are a natural extension of the underlying 'knowing' of being part of a collective 'thing' which is absent of the practice of duality.  Duality is experienced through individual experience which trensfers itself on the rest of the universe as part of that experience.

In this day and age, we as individuals are more aware of that sense of oneness due to the evidence of our actual physical situation we are altogether one species sharing a finite reality = specifically on a planet...and this understanding births the concept of oneness and its accompanying realizations.

In relation to the differing 'kinds' of reality which duality maintains cannot be 'converted' to each other, it is the nature of individualism which has 'seen' this to be so, but it is not in actual fact, that way at all.  Yes, individuals have experienced the other reality and have not found evidence that it is objectively One Thing - although others have found it to be so but not altogether...a PART of it is, but other parts are not.

This leads to the hypothesis that 'the other reality' is a creation of human imagination (but real because of the nature/properties of 'the other' and is the way it is because human imagination is built upon the actual physical experiences of individual beings who have been largely unaware of any non-physical connection they have with each other.  Unicorns are horses with horns on them - Pegasus = horse with wings...(etc) all derive from real physical experience...

It terms of making an Island real and developing that Island and reporting together - it is a good scientific approach but of what value is it as a learning tool and how well can it help make those connections to both realities open?

In every sense, all things are real - in relation to the island, the reality is shared which proves to those involved with the experiment that they are indeed dealing with a real thing and a thing which has been created by a group effort.

The Island creation itself has little to offer the physical reality here on this planet, other than as a model metaphor for the Earth, and there does not seem to be any great emphasis attached to being able to experience this alternate reality and how these experiences could be compiled to present any particular picture which might help us here in the physical.

There is little point for now in hoping that mainstream science will somehow make any concerted effort to uncover and study the other reality = it is focused on what it can achieve here in regards to uncovering and studying, and for the time being those who do participate in the alternate reality are quite hesitant to share their knowledge and correlate the data scientifically in an effort to uncover and understand.

Again, this is due mainly to the nature of individualism.

If we had evolved as individuals who were connected and where 'secrets' were impossible to keep from one another, and supposing that every physical specie (ET) has its own alternate reality, if any of those species where more...I hesitate to use the term -  'hive-minded'  - because of the negative implications our specie places upon such a concept...I also understand why this concept appears to be an unpleasant one to contemplate - but when minds are connected, consciousness is collective...


...it is very likely that a specie which can think together will have those connections to their alternate reality open and active and the access between the two 'worlds' would not be restricted - both 'worlds' would naturally appear to be One Thing...different aspects of the same.

Consciousness would flow freely...

Such a species would have a tremendous advantage in relation to any specie which is cut off from the knowledge of their 'other' reality and have to work at making those connections open and fully accessible.

The question remains and is also integrated with another thread in this forum:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_news_and_media/extraterrestrials-t42285.0.html;msg333176#new

...the question being, 'of what use is the alternate reality with our own'?  If it were able to make itself known (full disclosure) to individuals, it is related to the ET question 'why are they not disclosing themselves to our species?'  Are they prevented from doing so - and if so, what is doing the preventing and why?

Individuals of course can argue that THEY are not being prevented from experiencing and exploring the alternate reality, and this would be true, although by all accounts, some things are off-limits - but I think the same principle applies...if ETs exist and can be communicated with through individual experience, then - with a bit of effort and a specific intent, it can be done.

Is the information of experience of any value to the collective?  

It appears (for now) not to be, because 'the collective' are not really 'collective' or behaving in a way that significantly shows they know of and appreciate the value of the connection they all have, but dont, wont, or for some reason, cannot share.

Mainstream science may be focused upon the physical, but I think it safe to assume that IF ETs are working with aspects of our species, there will be a lot more science going into uncovering the nature of and exploring the structure of the alternate reality in find out exactly what it is and how it can assist...for now at least kept secret from those who are indifferent, focused on less mind boggling - more mundane things and happy to have such 'secrets' remain secret.

Well, I feel that all things occur exactly as they are intended, and that there are reasons for all that happens, so whether there is a massive global visitation or full disclosure or not would of course be for some purpose, be it a learning opportunity or whatever.

However, I personally feel that any mass visitation on a global scale in our current state would be highly inappropriate at this time.  The entire global society is currently going through a massive transitional phase, both on a personal level as well as collectively, and is a transition that we must work through completely on our own.  This is a period in human history that should not nor must not be interfered with by any perceived outside influences.  I strongly feel that the next few decades, and maybe even the next 100 years will be a very defining moment in our history.  How we make it through this transition will be and must be completely determined by the collective consciousess of Earth's global population, whether we "succeed" or "fail".  But in all actuality there is no success or failure, there is only experience.

If we not only survive but successfully thrive at the completion of this transitional period, we could potentially have a new global society never before experienced in Earth's history, and it could be us visiting them instead of the other way around.

However, if we fail miserably to the point of near extinction, if not total extinction, then I guess whatever aliens that may or may not be observing us can just move on with nothing else to witness here, and we humans who had our chance on this planet can just continue experiencing life elsewhere.

It just depends on what we choose to experience.

Again, if there was a massive visitation, or even an invasion, this could majorly disrupt our path to enlightenment, and distract us from our Self.  Even if it resulted in transforming society into a more positive one, we would have learned little, if anything at all, because the learning opportunities that we have created for ourself would have been taken away in the process.  An event like this would deny us the choices we should have made on our own.  If we don't learn from those opportunities then we could very likely make the same mistakes down the road, and this perceived alien rescue would have been for nothing.

As it is today, the majority of society continues to look outside of themselves for a savior.  Due in no small part to many of the religions and other belief systems, we continually look for some thing or event to rescue us from our perceived problems instead of looking within ourself for the solutions.  A perceived rescue from a massive alien visitation would turn our attention onto them and away from ourself and only reinforce our belief that we can only be saved from someone other than ourself.

Failure or success in terms of survival or extinction on a mass scale is not the most likely criteria.  If we are talking in terms of 'spirit in a material world' then data of experience amounts to spirit utilizing the material universe in various forms, some of which are more apt - the human form seems able enough to be useful for gathering the data but not so apt at feeding back the data but it is likely not the form so much as distortion of data - for example, an individual who has experience to which he or she is unable to understand and they share the information with someone who they believe is more able to decipher that data and produce an understandable answer as to "why" - a role which tribal seers  took on and cultures and religions evolved from.  It is easy enough to see how this happens and for the more physical side of everyday life on earth it is education, science, finance and politics which have evolved to become that which will 'save'.

In terms of 'only the physical' mass extinction might well be an answer to a problem perceived, even as 'spirit' finds that data of experience being gathered is of no particular value to its own evolution - I use the word 'spirit' but am suggesting rather 'collective consciousness of our species' and that extinction might well play a very important role - it has already been experienced at least once and other types of form to experience through developed as the dust settled.

It is interesting to consider options - do we stand and watch as less fortunate countries suffer under harsh political laws and terrifying constraints or do we interfere?  The decisions made are always political/business motivated and cost of interference must be weighed alongside possible return of investment and if there are to be no likely profits which offset the investment, then there will be no interference.

We cannot easily know what motivates ET to become involved or remain at arms length or what opportunities it affords their own 'species spirit' to learn by observing any others or indeed to what extent these species-spirits are entwined - what the relationship is at those levels of collective consciousness...how intimate they might be...for mostly, whether we are focused upon only the physical or consider also the 'spiritual' most of us as individual do not pay particular mind to such, content to play in our own subjective fields of experience and indifferent or simply unaware of the 'bigger' things occurring, and how those things might be viewing the reality unfolding and interpreting that unfolding in a co-creative mutually agreeable way - for reasons beyond the perceptions of individual human wants, desires, etc...

[1:] The expression 'zoological and veterinarian' implies that we regard us and consider us to be regarded by the ETs (greys and/or others) as sth inferior, even animal. However, this is open to debate, many channelled messages and information retrieved under hypnotic regression bears other messages from ETs, they talk about admiration and appreciation, since they see the soul essence in us which is not different from them. But of course this might be misinformation again ... who knows, and maybe there are different fractions and parties of ETs with different agendas and views of humans indeed ...

[2:] I'm asking myself, however, if there are so many species out there, they must still somehow coordinate and work together or at least do some counselling amongst each other. E.g. who prevents any of the races to go it alone and make "official" contact by mass landing. It did and does not happen. So who or what (authority?) would be keeping them from it? I think this is a good argument to suppose a kind of policy (or 'prime directive').

On point 1 - there is enough info re Zeta Reticuli to know that they are scientists and experiment, recreate, develop and explore pushing the limits of knowledge. Also from data recalled by those who have had the experience of being 'abducted' there is a lot of feedback on being examined and tested physically.
In watching human zoological and veterinarian at work I don;t get the impression that they think of animals as inferior although in general it seems that human beings do think of animals as being inferior, soulless, but from my own communications as well as other sources we are not considered anything less than they (the greys) but more 'of them' because of the thread of life recognized as consciousness through which we are all connected - the forms we are in may be superior to other earthly creatures because we can do so much more with what we have and we can use our bodies to operate on critters and help them to get well.  In that sense, our bodies being 'superior' ET forms might be superior from our own forms.

We can admire any critter for their particular talent - something we greatly appreciate or can't do ourselves (like swim like a dolphin, or run like a cat etc...) 

On point 2 - there are great distances involved in travelling the galaxy and one of the disadvantages for biological lifeforms is that space travel is murder on the body.
Arguments that ET can get around this problem by jumping through dimensions might be relevant but we don't know if this is real or fictional since our own science is so limited in this area.
If there is a galactic federation this implies that they communicate somehow over great distance or that they are all in one place or that they convene in some other dimension and discuss, argue, agree etc but even if 99% of the different species for example all agreed that Humans should be left alone to develop naturally, any species which is able to ignore any agreement can do so and may not even be able to be prevented from doing so.   

Anyway there is a lot of data to show that ET has indeed had a lot to do with our development.

Who exactly isn't ready to know? Is it mankind in general, organized religions and their followers, the boy scouts.

It depends upon exactly what there is to full disclosure.

What questions would arise in regard to what is revealed?

How will that affect the desired outcome?

What would be the desired outcome?

Will the ETs involved support full disclosure and are they even united?  For example, I have read channeled info that says the Zeta are not part of the Galactic Federation, because they are non supportive of major directives which others have agreed to.

Will full disclosure reveal that a lot of channeled information is human fabrication?

According to Jewish tradition, ETs are featured in their holy book as 'the gods' and thus so too is this a recognizable feature in Christian doctrine - even in Revelations there is reference to Jesus returning with a host of heavenly angels to land on the Planet and take control of the situation - that would be a mighty big disclosure but not necessarily full disclosure.

How would it be if an ET species would land on the planet and play the role of God over human beings and how much of this information has been distorted to suit human agenda?  How do we know that in ancient day the gods disclosed their intentions to the tribal leadership only to have that information twisted to effectively make those intentions next to impossible to carry out?

How would people react to being informed about the interactions of the past and the cover-ups and lies and distortions?

Would our specie be mature enough to accept the mistakes of the past for the sake of the future?

There is a certain role that an aspect of Zeta Reticuli species have had in relation to human beings, which is zoological and veterinarian, as well as other scientific roles, and also 'God'...how would such information be reconciled?

Yes and no. If they have a prime directive like in Star Trek it would be more about the "ban" on contacting the collective (mankind) officially, e.g. the sterotypical scenario of a landing on the White House lawn and saying hello to the President.

Of course the prohibition does not involve personal contacts (or groups who are open enough) also to start a slow process to help evolve the species (up to now done for millenia already I suppose) or help establish contact gradually in order to prevent a shock caused by the societal paradigm shift in case they did the 'mass contact / landing' thing.

Yes - essentially that was what I was aiming at in regard to why ET remains undisclosed in the manner that many would like them to be - the subject of 'prime directive' was offered as a possible reason why.

In general it could be argued that we as a species are ready for 'landings and mass contact' due to our far better understanding of science and the universe.

Perhaps too there would be resentment if such a thing was done without any invitation?

Anyway, it appears there are more reasons why ET should remain hidden, than for them to be revealed.  Perhaps it is 'the mark of a species' if it actually gets its act together with minimal outside interference...or maybe the focus is on the individual to make the connections.

One last interesting thing about the afterlife. This explained to me why atheists who have had NDE's come back devout Christians (these types made some of the strongest testaments that kept me Christian for so long). Jarrod says that when someone dies and they had no belief in an afterlife, they are the most shocked to see what they know is their dead body yet they are more aware than ever that they still exist in some form. They will instantly think that since they still exist, that the Christians were right all along, and they then create some of the worse hells imaginable, which is what they would expect was a worthy punishment for a vocal nonbeliever such as they were.

Due to the capacity to induce ones own reality instantly, this seems to be what most likely occurs - not realizing that one creates their own 'reality' (due to the particular properties of this state of being) it would be natural for some hard-line skeptics to assume the worst when their bodies die and yet they find themselves to still exist, to think the worst, especially if they have dedicated a portion of their lives in berating religion and god-concepts whilst firmly believing that death is the only logical end...death of their consciousness and sense of self.

This also explains the stories about soul retrievers who go to these hellish places to try and convince those suffering there that they can move on to better situations.

We could only be second guessing their agenda if they had for instance told it to us themselves...

If I am told anything about someone BY that someone I would take them at their word until such a time as it became necessary not to. 

I have communed with individuals through Ouija who said they are ET and even identified which particular specie they were (Zeta Reticuli).  What information I got from this type of communication was revealing, helpful and worth the effort.

From the information communicated, they are and have been involved quite intimately with us as a specie for a long time on both the collective consciousness level and at individual level and that while they are extremely more advanced they are still themselves learning and this is part of the reason why they persist.

They also have a sense of humor. 

I have only seen one type of Zeta Reticuli and that was a good 25 or so years ago.  It is my assumption that this being was Zeta due to its large dark eyes and grey hued skin, but it definitely was not the popular stereotype which media often portrays... you know, this one...



Due to this encounter (which happened while in hypnagogic state) when developing the communication techniques of Ouija many years later I eventually asked about the experience I had had, and also if it were possible to commune with the Zeta over the Ouija - and the affirmation was that I certainly could, so I did.

I have never seen a flying craft of unknown origin, but have seen unexplainable lights in the sky at night - I cannot immediately assume that these lights are from flying craft of any sort although the circumstances surrounding this particular event allow me to see something of a message being communicated, and a kind of shared humor.

We could only be second guessing their agenda if they had for instance told it to us themselves... at best be are making a long series of first guesses, lol.

I think to assume governments are in on this is only natural, because it is the only narritive that has been given to us that includes extraterrestrials. I mean yes you also have the touchy-feely channeled stuff, but with that stuff you need to take it on faith that you are being dictated to by aliens. The direct testimony of people who claim to have had experiences with them on earth are the only ones subject to possible future corroberation in the short term.

Now either we have visitors coming, or we don't. If we don't, everyone who has spoken up is a liar (which may be true, but makes alot of liars); if we do have visitors, then everything we have heard about them comes from witnesses such as discussed in this thread, and literally every one of them bar a small few mentions governments in connection to them, so it is sort of a starting point; if you believe any of the witnesses may not be liars, then governments are almost without fail involved somewhere.

To me paranoia would be taking neutral information and extracting a negative or dangerous connotation to it; but in the case of these testimonies, it isn't the viewer that is suggesting the government is hiding something, they are being told that by every speaker, so the information is not neutral to start with on that issue. So that must mean the whole disclosure and testimony movement itself is a movement of paranoia if anything about it is. But then if every source is discredited as a paranoid one, then how does a person figure out what is going on at all? If you want any data to evaluate at all, it is really your only option.

You are correct I agree.

Where did the thought about ETs originate?  Where did the imagery come from which give us examples which distinguish the three main ET types which Paul Hellyer speaks about in the video posted at the start this topic?

We cannot automatically assume that the secretive nature of Governments are the result of sinister agenda. 
We cannot seriously take any-ones testimony (including channeling) to be representative of truthfulness and as such ETs are more in the realm of the fringe subjects, such as AP, Occult, Religion, Spirituality, Alternate universe etc... science fiction.

They are not speaking for themselves and even governments are not speaking for them.  There is also the aspect of being motivated to believe based on assumption that a higher advanced space faring civilization would be in a position to 'save us from ourselves', or from our governing oppressors.

Even taking what information is available, the picture seems to be that the differing types of ET are not all working together and follow their own cosmological philosophies which clash with the others, and it is possible that information on one type is misinformation from another type.

There is some evidence that the Zeta Reticuli (greys) have had interaction with some cultures - I am thinking specifically the Maoris  - and such interaction can be seen in the stories and artwork of many cultures but ... I am reminded of Whitley Strieber...what might appear to the one experiencing 'abduction' is reminiscent of AP stories and is the most likely source where the concept of ET originates.

It would be so much easier to speak to you William through your Ouija board communication device. 

I find it amusing that we anthropomorphise aliens... trying to second guess their agenda based upon our own paranoia... assuming that the government are privy to their knowledge etc.

It would be interesting if you could elaborate on your anthropomorphic comment and why this amuses you Ben.

Simon

There was reference was in that post which you refer to but the post has been modified and the reference is no longer there.  My bad since I should have quoted.

It is far better to speak for yourself than for each other.

I will re-post what I said which is pertinent to communication - on topic and applicable to all of us.



We can as we choose hide behind personas and sound off spiritually (for example) but any hidden content of any communication can still be uncovered logically and rationally and it is easy enough to 'get to the bottom of things' if one is persistent and has the opportunity to do so, and pursues honest and open communication as the preferred (and hopefully mutual) expression.

Often when people complain in the way you have done here, it is because they think they are being exposed rather than that their message is found to have gaping holes in it which need to be honestly questioned and it is this honest questioning that is distasteful to their senses.  This is because they believe in what they are expressing so that the message IS them, which it is not really, not in reality - but because of this perception and misconception they think they are being questioned when it is the message which is being questioned, because they cannot separate themselves from the message and so respond by ignoring the message which exposes the holes in their own message and making personal comments about the messenger, which either shuts the messenger up or, in my case, gives me an opportunity to clarify - I am not against YOU (or the 'we' you allude to be representing - btw if any of these 'we' are reading this, please step forward and speak for your selves) I am FOR honesty, sincerity, truthfulness and pulling aside the veils of mystical subjectivity for the sake of the collective objectivity.

[note:  Personal comments such as referring to the nature of someones state of mental health, and alluding to possible reasons for their perceived mannerism which ignores what they are clearly saying in preference to some made up theory which suits the agenda of the 'court jury' - not honest, sincere, truthful or particularly useful other than to steer the focus of the thread away from having to adress the hard questions.]

In my communications with ET, this was one of the fundamental things they worked with me on - pulling away my own belief systems by questioning them through showing me the holes/inconsistencies in them.  I know it is hard at first but it is well worth it.  Many times in the early days I got snotty with them, much as you are doing with me.  I even pronounced them 'bad' and refused at times to speak with them, but they knew me well enough that I would come around as I just needed the time to absorb the data and was just reacting knee jerk and immaturely but in my heart I wanted to be truthful to myself and those whose paths cross with mine, and once I fully accepted the truth of their observations and realized the uncomfortable feelings being brought to the surface had to do with my own belief systems being shown to be faulty and that those feelings belonged to me and could be sourced within my own psyche - buttons being pushed meant that I had things to deal with and those helping to show me this were not my enemy - they were just not interested in molly coddling me or reinforcing said beliefs by playing along with them - of necessity they tolerated these beliefs through understanding, but they are not interested in pursuing communication forever on those terms because it is of no value in the long term to anyone.

You see - there is no 'Prime Directive' which prevents ET from communicating with anyone as if to do so is to interfere with the individual creating some unperceived and irrevocable damage.  All that is required is an honest and humble intent and an openness to learn and willingness to discard belief systems which do not promote unification and truthful communication.  It is really that simple.

All I ask is that in your time of 'muteness' where I am concerned you consider my words here and keep an open mind and see that I am not an enemy....but rather a potential friend.  

Thank You!

[and you and you...]

In regard to 'new information' that General Eisenhower threatened to invade area 51 - while it might be a first, it is not world shaking and does not really address or add to the topic of why ET chooses/or is forced to remain undisclosed, apart from adding weight to the argument that human beings are not communicating and thus working together effectively and honestly and this is possibly a major contributing factor to why ET remains undisclosed.

Who was it that posted in this thread 'WE ARE NOT READY'?

For some reason, I can't watch anything from that website. Can you give me a rundown of what he says?

I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Off the top of my head:

He says he was a simple farmer who enlisted and was eventually recruited by CIA, was privy to the blue book project, that it was all way over his head but he was encouraged to persist.

At one point he and his superior visited the President (General Eisenhower) who wanted to know what was going on in area 51 and was told that it was none of his business so the President gave them a message for those controlling area 51 that they had better deliver the goods or he would order an armed invasion of the area 51 and sent them on their way.

He then maintains that when they went to deliver the message to their superiors that he was given access to sighting actual living ETs of the 'Greys' variety and to alien space craft - both wreaked and in good order - as well as secret aircraft being created by American interests for spying.

They returned to see the President (not this time at the White House) and that Hoover and Nixon were both present at that meeting and he and his superior gave them the information he had been allowed to see.

That is off the top of my head - might have some of the details wrong (or not) but dont really want to view the vid again.  Hope it helps.

Before he agreed to do this video, his information in his own words was NEVER released in the Public Domain.

Oh my, are you comparing the internet to a Ouija Board? You know who is at the other end of the internet. Usually that is!  

There's no need to comment on my post, I can see I will never really get through to you.

For now on I shall stay "mute" where you are concerned.

Thank You!  

He has personally never released his information to the public domain.  There is nothing in what he spoke of that I have not heard before in the public domain over the years - there is no new information and the usual lack of evidence to support the information is conspicuous in its absence.  As was remarked, could be true, could be not. 

The internet is comparable to my own use of Ouija on many levels - very obviously so.  I think you intuit this on a deeper level but cannot bring yourself to comprehend that significance.  One of the most obvious comparisons has to do with relative anonymity - we can as we choose hide behind personas and sound off spiritually (for example) but any hidden content of any communication can still be uncovered logically and rationally and it is easy enough to 'get to the bottom of things' if one is persistent and has the opportunity to do so, and pursues honest and open communication as the preferred (and hopefully mutual) expression.

Often when people complain in the way you have done here, it is because they think they are being exposed rather than that their message is found to have gaping holes in it which need to be honestly questioned and it is this honest questioning that is distasteful to their senses.  This is because they believe in what they are expressing so that the message IS them, which it is not really, not in reality - but because of this perception and misconception they think they are being questioned when it is the message which is being questioned, because they cannot separate themselves from the message and so respond by ignoring the message which exposes the holes in their own message and making personal comments about the messenger, which either shuts the messenger up or, in my case, gives me an opportunity to clarify - I am not against YOU (or the 'we' you allude to be representing - btw if any of these 'we' are reading this, please step forward and speak for your selves) I am FOR honesty, sincerity, truthfulness and pulling aside the veils of mystical subjectivity for the sake of the collective objectivity.

In my communications with ET, this was one of the fundamental things they worked with me on - pulling away my own belief systems by questioning them through showing me the holes/inconsistencies in them.  I know it is hard at first but it is well worth it.  Many times in the early days I got snotty with them, much as you are doing with me.  I even pronounced them 'bad' and refused at times to speak with them, but they knew me well enough that I would come around as I just needed the time to absorb the data and was just reacting knee jerk and immaturely but in my heart I wanted to be truthful to myself and those whose paths cross with mine, and once I fully accepted the truth of their observations and realized the uncomfortable feelings being brought to the surface had to do with my own belief systems being shown to be faulty and that those feelings belonged to me and could be sourced within my own psyche - buttons being pushed meant that I had things to deal with and those helping to show me this were not my enemy - they were just not interested in molly coddling me or reinforcing said beliefs by playing along with them - of necessity they tolerated these beliefs through understanding, but they are not interested in pursuing communication forever on those terms because it is of no value in the long term to anyone.

You see - there is no 'Prime Directive' which prevents ET from communicating with anyone as if to do so is to interfere with the individual creating some unperceived and irrevocable damage.  All that is required is an honest and humble intent and an openness to learn and willingness to discard belief systems which do not promote unification and truthful communication.  It is really that simple.

All I ask is that in your time of 'muteness' where I am concerned you consider my words here and keep an open mind and see that I am not an enemy....but rather a potential friend. 

Thank You!

Steady on guy!

Most of your personal allegations against me in the above post are misleading!  They show a distinct inability to comprehend collective consciousness and your continued inability to focus on the message and desire to make the messenger out to be some kind of bad person.
This is not the first time you have done this, but it does spotlight that probable reason I gave a few posts back as to why ET does not disclose themselves to humanity - we can barely communicate honestly and maturely among ourselves!

There is nothing magical about the particular communication device - any more than there is about the internet being used as a communications device, or even a telephone.  Questions are a natural part of communication. 

I have more to say re your personal assertions...later.

Possible "Deathbed Confession" or just another disinformation attempt. You decide!

http://vimeo.com/64939351

He has nothing to lose, but the World has everything to gain!

I am not sure why you think the world has everything to gain - the interview isn't giving any particular type of information which hasn't been in the public domain before.
Regurgitation at best.