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We obviously have a goal here and if we choose to spend 5 hours on this then thats our choice. Some would say its more important trying to project than to do the things you mentioned. Doing whatever your body/mind tells you isn't always the best idea, like wanting to sleep on the job or ramming the driver in front of you for driving too slow

I find it odd that people link the hypnogogic images to the sleep border or to a stage of unconsciousness, because I always see these images only a couple of minutes into meditation, without fail. However Im not usually feeling that physically relaxed/heavy/etc when I get them...

My sleeping pattern is way out of whack at the moment, so I could possibly be trying your method this weekend as a means to reset my body clock Im kinda impatient though so not sure what my chances are. Maybe Ill try the "get real tired" mod to try and speed things, even if you're not sure it'll really help

Howdy Tre,
I can definitely relate to some degree. I made a post a while back where I experienced tunnels/visions (it was quite full-on) and Im fairly sure I awoke to these things rather than them appearing slowly. Perhaps your mind falls asleep trying to induce this and your astral body/dream mind remembers you were trying to get the effect and wakes you up in the middle of it?? If that makes any sense. Itd be good if there were some technique that accomplished this with a good chance of success, itd mean you wouldn't have to try and relax, because youd be asleep, and you wouldnt have to stop thinking because youre... asleep
I guess going OBE during a lucid dream is along these lines. Pity Ive never had/remembered a lucid dream.

Cheers

Hi Tom,
Im definitely going to have to try your method seeing as though (from previous posts) we seem to have a bit in common. Have you tried shortening the whole process by being more tired when you start out? Say for example if you get up at 9am, try get up at 6am, and if you normally go to sleep at 10, go to sleep at midnight, essentially cutting out a lot of sleep time. Surely that would make you more tired, and lying awake for 5 hours is maybe/kinda/sorta the same ish
The only thing Im hoping wont work against me is the extensive amount of experience Ive had pulling all nighters. I usually don't ever feel that tired and have trouble making myself go to sleep at a reasonable hour... its 5am now hehe.
Anyway, am keen to know if youve tried the sleep depravation thing!

Cheers

Is there any half scientific logic behind how this stuff could help you project? Im constantly baffled by the amount of "evidence", scientific explanations, similarities/etc out there in regard to OBE and was just wondering if theres much to be said about this?

Cheers.

The farsight website is actually quite good. They give away a heap of free videos that looks like a fairly comprehensive course. The only thing is you need to download some crap file sharing software to get it, fair enough too, considering the size of the vid files. Unfortunately Ive got quite the fear for file sharing software, allowing people to access/download stuff from your computer and sucking up your bandwidth isn't cool with me.
I should concentrate just on AP for now anyway really... Hardly have time just for that. Cheers for that link though, Im sure Ill get a hold of those farsight videos one day.

Thanks guys, Ive had a look at both links, but neither really gave me what I was looking for. The manual isnt really a training tool (as is actually stated in the manual), and that link gives a half page how to which doesn't begin to explain things. "Look at the numbers and wait for images/textures etc to come to you"?
I wonder if the reason theres no free stuff out there is because there were mainly only a few people who were taught it, and they're selling stuff which teaches it for a high price, thus it doesnt spread and theres probably copyright issues too

Oh well, will have to wait until the cash situation improves a bit!

Cheers.

Would you decribe 3d blackness as looking (visually) 3d, as in you can see objects with 3 dimensions, or the blackness "feels" 3d, like youre inside it? If the latter, how do you know its 3d when its black, with no reference points? Unless it is just a "feeling" thing.

Ive seen some pretty 3d looking things (always faces actually), which usually turn around or "move towards me" or open their mouths, turn their heads, etc.

I almost always just get swirling colours, bands of light that come up from below and pass "over my head" and glowing orbs of lights/strobing lights, etc.

About 5-10-15 minutes through meditating Ill usually go from "just looking at my eyelids" to feeling like Im looking into a much larger space, but its never felt like a huge event, and I dunno if Id call it 3d blackness either.

Cheers

Hi Picard. Damn funny alias / pic btw hehehe. I laughed first time I saw it

I noticed one time a similar thing to what youre describing. Tried to project, failed, then couldn't sleep. Its funny, I would almost describe it like, the backs of your eyelids look different or become more obvious or something, I cant quite explain it. So when you go from trying to project, to sleep, I have the same feeling as if Im trying to project thus I cant sleep. Not sure what to suggest, I just eventually went to sleep. Usually just sleeping in one position and trying to OBE in another prevents it but not this time...

Did you try getting up then going back to sleep again?

Other than that, maybe its best you try and project while seated? Hows that work for you?

Cheers.

Hello again
Ok number 1, Im not a biker Though you could definitely say Im a bit rough... longish hair, generally unshaven... I was meditating/ trying to project last night, early morning...? hehe. How clear was the image?

Just finished reading Monroes first book (in 1 1/2 days Its definitely not as "nice and safe" as Bruces book. He doesnt seem to pull any punches anywhere thats for sure. Anyway I read something that he said which sounded interesting, that his vibrations started out "rough" and then turned into just warmth. Youll also recall I said mine seem to build up into a big rush and dissapear, but now I wonder if they actually just reach a frequency that I can barely feel. I took special notice of the feeling last night and I think I may actually have been able to feel a very slight vibration after the big rush, but I cant be sure. Had a very good session last night listening to the free binaural abyss track, I was pretty far gone Quite possibly the deepest trance level Ive attained yet. But of course still no projection otherwise Id be jumping up and down a bit So yeah Im essentially just sorta wondering if the vibrations are continuing but I cant feel them...
?

Hey Tom,
I cant say how clearly your term "tremendous power rush" explains the feelings I get. If I let them, these rushing feelings do "take over" and yeah, feels like a full on power rush throughout my whole body, yet as Ive said, usually this feeling reaches a climax for maybe a few seconds, then slowly fades away, leading me to beleive its just that feeling you get when watching a movie
So when you say the feeling is good enough to roll or fly out, do you actually use these as projection techniques or do you "go with the flow"/"fall into it" and you're all of a sudden just out, next to your body?

I also wonder (seeing as though you seem to share similar experiences) if you recognise anything from my earlier post at http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11543&SearchTerms=projection Im actually taking a break from reading Rob Monroes first book right now and was shocked to read his journal entry which described almost to the letter, the same tunnel/person sitting scenario, except he was out of body I think at that point and I wasn't.

Cheers and thanks for your time spent so far.

Hi Tom,
Thanks for all that. Very interesting indeed. Its good to talk to someone who seems to share some of your own experiences. Better than someone whos always been able to do it easily using a totally different method
Im sick at the moment so dont like my chances but Ill have to fill you in regarding whether I get out using this method. Im assuming youd have a hard time trying to explain your falling inwards theory? Doesnt sound like youre trying to feel like youre floating or using any vizualisations... If you can get out within 2 seconds it mustnt take long to do?

Just editing here after reading that keys link you provided. I like this guys viewpoint and the less active/forceful methods of OBE. As I've had trouble using the rope method and stuff like that, I like the ideas he presents. I think I may also have a better understanding of what you might mean when saying you fall inwards, but Im still interested to hear from you what you mean, and how you pull it off within 2 seconds of feeling vibrations. Also if youre using this whole attitude of just, observe, see what happens, dont concentrate on physical body, how can you at the same time feel the vibrations and then react to them using a technique to get out?

Cheers.

My guess would be that it kinda links you to the real world just a tad more Also I think if somehow you projected with your eyes open... errr who knows what would happen, youd get double vision??? err actually probably not according to RB's theories... hehe.

I never thought about it that hard, its actually not that dumb a question. Its almost akin to asking why you cant sleep with your eyes open Try and answer. Youd just say "cos you cant sleep with them open"

Cheers.

So Tom would you call that feeling the classic vibrations that many people talk about? Because I thought you could be in the vibration state for many minutes? This is, as you say more like the feeling you get when you watch a scary movie.

Im pretty sure I read in Astral Dynamics that Bruce thinks this rushing feeling isnt vibrations and that its even detrimental to success? Anyone else read this? Ive lent my copy away and cant remember. However if this helps you get out then its only a good thing!!

Did you ask how I get the feeling? Couldnt quite understand that last line. I usually get it as I reach a certain state of trance, or I have a strong hypnogogic image... hard to say actually. When I let it "take over" though, it feels quite different to the normal chill/rush feeling, as my whole body/mind feel like they are almost taken over by it. However nothing ever happens for me from this point. I might have to see what I can do next time just to make sure Im not missing something good here I think I had it more when I started too, like it was linked to excitement and stuff like that, so I dont get it quite so much now.

Cheers.

Hey Tom,
You describe the rushing up spine sensations and so forth in a similar manner to what I get when Im meditating/trying to project. Ive always had trouble trying to discern between whats supposed to be vibrations and these "rushes". The type of rush I feel is actually identical to what i sometimes feel when Im totally awake, expect sometimes it feels a bit stronger/different, possibly because Im in a semi trance/full trance (god knows!). Would you say these rushes you get feel similar to anything you get when wide awake?
Also sometimes these rushes I get sort of pulse through me, but they never last long, I can only get them to stay around for maybe 10 seconds max, and I can always get them to go away at will, unless I feel like something big is happening, then I try not to focus on it.
Interested to hear what your experience is.

Cheers.

What the... Some of these projection techniques are pretty full on.

"Attach a dot to your forehead, stare at yourself in the mirror for 5 minutes without blinking"? Holy Moly! "Shock yourself out" haha

I wonder if this person has tried and successfully used these techniques

Well if you say youre dreaming then Id guess youd have fallen asleep? Unless its a daydreamy kinda thing? If youve fallen asleep then you could definitely have moved, have you ever watched a dog dream? They move their feet and tail, etc hehehe.
Also its quite common whilst falling asleep to "catch yourself" / jolt back awake. Ive heard people say they think its your astral body loosening while youre still conscious, thus you feel like you just moved your physical body and it was maybe your astral...

"I seem to just "click" off and back "on". I feel like my head or some other body part is cocked or moved slightly"

Can you explain this any further? Could it be that youve fallen asleep, your head falls forward, then you wake up?

Rope doesnt seem to work for me either (yet?) Ive done it and gotten a fast heart beat but nothing else. Ive heard people suggest just to try meditate/trance with no intention of projecting, apparently some people can project naturally without trying/using any technique. I think Ive gotten farthest doing this too, perhaps because your mind isnt full of "ok I wonder if I should try to project now?", "how about now?", "now?" "ok Ill try this" etc and your head is just full of all this stuff. Not that Im an expert but I think its worth a try just to see how far you get/what happens if you just meditate to a deep level.

Interested if you can explain your on off dealy further

Cheers

You can pull off all those matrix moves in the "real world" right now! All you need is a PS2 and a game called "Enter the Matrix" hehehe.
Seriously I have a feeling youd get bored of "running" and flipping off walls when youre actually projecting. Thered have to be a million more interesting things to do. Also Im sure with enough practice you could run and flip off a real wall P.S. Dont run and flip off a wall and break your neck

Cheers

Lumian,
Re the fear on the subconcious level... you may have fear at some level that youre not aware of but I can tell you from my own personal "near/almost projection" experience that when youre actually experiencing the exit sensations, its really quite shocking/amazing/"full on". Its easy to say youre not scared before it happens, but when youre going through it its totally different to experience it. Similar to a lot of experiences you have in life too I guess. You think, meh that wouldnt be that bad if that happened, then if/when it does...

Tom, thats good to hear that you projected even when holding on to your other hand tightly, because I always tighten up too Trying to stop doing it but its hard!

I havent been spending large amounts of time developing my energy body, but I can feel energy in my hands and feet VERY clearly, in my arms and legs to a lesser degree, so it seems the feelings are lessened the further I go "into the middle" Is this a common feeling? However I can feel energy on my brow/third eye, my tongue, nose, crown, and other places.

When I try and raise energy into my abdomen/stomach, I can rarely feel anything up past my thighs, let alone feel it entering a chakra and "filling up". Its hard to practice too when you can't feel anything happening. Itd be interested to know if this is normal, or how to develop this further. Also when trying the full body circuits, I can basically only feel my arms and legs...

Hi lovepoison,
hehe, I also sleep on my front. Wierd. My neck suffers for it but I cant sleep any other way.

Ive never been able to control the images, they just seem to appear whenever and as whatever. For some reason, mainly faces and eyes. The only thing Ive been able to half control is seeing my "awareness hands" as RB puts it. They still dont do exactly what I want them to though.

What sort of stuff do you see?

Hey Patrik,
Have you done any of the energy work suggested by Robert Bruce? If you skipped ahead to work on the primary chakras maybe this is the result? And if not, working on the secondary ones might releive the problem a bit. Maybe try moving your body awareness to your hands or feet, which should be quite easy if you can feel your heart/brow/crown, it might take your focus off the uncomfortable feelings?
I actually know how you feel because I get restless legs, and I know it really sucks. Since Ive started the energy techniques Ive had one restless legs "attack" and focussing my awareness in my feet actually really helped

Cheers.

haha! this thread is funny stuff.

Yeah I agree with Como, force choke her, I mean kundalini throatamagig her... haha (star wars reference there, incase anyone thought I really wanted someone choked!)

Please film it if you go through with it hahaha

Cheers

Haha, crazy, I was almost too embarrased to mention stuff like my eyes opening. Man thats annoying, theyll just open for some reason, usually when theres stuff going on behind my eyes or I can feel my consciousness changing, but jees, I just think "close dang it!!!" and hope I havent ruined everything. I just clench them tighter now when I feel they might be opening...Dunno if this is a good idea but I dont know what else to try.

Lord and Nay, you both seem to have very similar experiences to myself. I have great trouble with the rope technique too. I get the body tensing up thing and I dont feel like Im moving upwards, but I have had my heart rate increase by doing the technique occasionally. Is this some side effect of visualising "incorrectly"? I must admit my viz technique varies wildly while doing this... Perhaps I keep changing it to try and get the desired technique. Sounds so easy when RB explains it dang it

Echoing what Nay said on the flickering eyes, mine are starting to flicker way less too. It might just be that they start to not get um, surprised or shocked or frightened, you know like if someone goes to poke you in the eye, you clench them Have you ever seen faces or eyes when youre meditating/in trance? I see LOTS of hypno..gog... whatever that word is, images, and sometimes I see almost nothing but faces, lots of them. Tonight I didnt see much but got an extremely clear image of just one guys eye and surrounding facial area... Crazy stuff!

Im interested in the heart viz thing youre talking about though, as the heart beating mega fast is one of the effects Ive noticed the most when I try and project. Also just out of interest whats the laras one? Havent heard of either of these and Ive read RB's books and been around here for a while.

Cheers!

Doesnt sound like you missed it, did you feel vibrations or anything before the racing heart? RB says if you feel the vibrations then heart racing, then you might have missed it. Ive had very strong heart beat sensations too and cant believe its not the real heart. Id like to know if anyone has ever put heart rate monitors on or anything to test it? I never want to stop and feel my pulse just incase Im about to project for the first time!

Whats this "edge" youre about to hit? and can you shed any more light on the feeling heavy and light at the same time thing? Ive gotten to a state where my body feels kinda numb, and my extremities feel like numb masses, etc, but Ive never had the heavy/light feelings.

Cheers.