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What makes you say that out of curiosity?

Actually I'm not a big fan of moral relativism.  My take on morals is that there is indeed a universal moral standard... it's just that with our limited human perspective, we're not always in the best position to be sure about what it is.  For example, the moral relativist would say that it was right for Mayans to perform human sacrifice because they believed it would make the sun keep rising (at least I *think* that was them...).  Whereas, I would say that they were committing an immoral act, however understandable their logic may have been from their perspective and limited knowledge.  They may have viewed it as a necessary evil, but that doesn't make it any less evil.

I think the golden rule is a pretty good general standard, and since some form of it is found in every major religion on the planet, apparently I'm not alone, heh.  Basically, if someone asked me how to be a moral person (O wise sage that I am... hah) I'd just tell them "be good to yourself, the environment and other people, and don't infringe on anyone's right to life, liberty and property if they're not infringing on yours."  Beyond that is a whole lot of situational ethics and grey area that I don't have the motivation to get into right now, heh.

While I'm on the subject, I might as well say that I don't believe in legislating morality.  I believe the best government is one whose job is to protect its people from force and fraud, and that's about it... though I'm leaning toward the government having a responsibility to preserve the environment as well.  Thus, something like murder is illegal not because it is immoral, but rather because it involves one person infringing upon another's right to life.  This also means of course that "consentual crime" is an oxymoron, and all of those should be legal.

So yeah... there's a lot more that I could say, but I should probably stop philosophizing and start on that nasty homework stuff.

[Noon turns to night as cloud blacks out sun]

::raises eyebrow::
--------------

Noon turns to night as cloud blacks out sun
(China Daily)
Updated: 2004-11-12 08:57

Day turned to night across Shenyang when a freak cloud formation 8,000 metres deep blanketed the northeastern city.

For over half-an-hour noon was as black as midnight. Cars, buses and lorries went someway to breaking up the darkness.

Tremendous lightening flashes accompanied the phenomena, reports the website www.sina.com.cn.

Convergence of two cloud fronts formed the 8,000-metre-thick connective cloud cluster.

With sky and sun effectively blocked out, visibility was reduced to near zero, according to an expert from the provincial capital's meteorological bureau.

The marvellous spectacle was also reported in many other areas of Liaoning Province and lasted for half an hour in some places, he said.

The meteorologist warned that temperatures are likely to plummet in the coming days.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-11/12/content_390884.htm

Maybe next year, you might actually sign up for a real college and start enjoying all that life has to offer.  It is a good thing.  

As someone who forsees quite a few all-nighters and an ungodly amount of coffee in my future in the next month or so, I say: shush, you.  

Seriously though QS, I think that's a pretty good plan.  The people who sever all ties with the world to sit around and wait for Armageddon are invariably disappointed, and at worst, financially screwed.

'Tis much better to use what the system has to offer to your benefit.  Take care of your biological needs without investing too much of yourself in it, and use your accumulated resources to oppose the system from within, while simultaneously building the future of your choice for yourself and others.

Excellent thread.  I have a lot of ideas, though I don't have time to compile a list just yet.  Most of them simply have to do with becoming more self-sufficient, and reliant upon those in your immediate sphere of influence, rather than being reliant upon The System™ we're trying to change.  If enough people were to stop depending on the system, and thus withdraw their time and resources from it, it would crumble like a house of cards (which is only a matter of time anyway)... and those who had ceased to be dependent on it would simply keep on living.  There are tons of small ways any of us could do this; use your imagination.  I have become very inspired by a class I'm taking on Native American philosophy.  The indigenous people of the Americas were *masters* of self-sufficiency and sustainable living, and there's quite a lot we could learn from them that could easily be integrated into what we're hoping to do.  So, I think that any study in that general direction would probably be a good place to start.

As for your politics/religion/economics bit, my long term goal is to gain influence within the religious scholarship community, and use that influence toward the goals of this new paradigm.  More specifically, I have a problem with the fact that there's a huge gap between modern scholarship, and the average religious person.  Scholars are typically a rather elitist bunch, who write predominantly for each other.  The average religious person is someone who fulfills his "religious obligation" by sitting in a building for an hour or so a week, and has his spirituality prepackaged and fed to him by someone who is paid to do just that.  They have neither the time nor the desire to figure out what scholars have to say, and since that information usually contradicts the traditions and doctrines that are designed to keep butts in pews and cash in the basket, they generally won't hear it from the pulpit either.  Mainstream Christianity (also known as "McChristianity" and "Churchianity") has become the very thing it started out as a reaction against, and has become another tool of the very culture and system we're trying to change.

Much of my plans involve supporting and/or helping to found new forms of religious communities that are more in line with the new paradigm, and are, incidentally, exactly what the Church started out as: small egalitarian communities where everyone had an active role, as opposed to large hierarchical institutions.  Within these communities, I hope that the more participatory nature will encourage more questioning, critical thinking, etc... which is where my personal contributions will hopefully come into play.  I don't believe in the idea of scholarship being inaccessible to the average person -- if all this knowledge ultimately serves no practical purpose, then what good is it?  The challenge then, is to find the thin line between accessibility and intellectual integrity without dumbing down the material so much that it puts us right back where we started.

What I'm proposing might be a bit idealistic, but I don't think so.  I've seen sociological studies indicating a shift away from mainstream institutions in favor of a more personalized and individualistic spirituality... so chances are that by the time I'm out of school, there will already be something like this going on that I can become a part of and contribute to.

Although my focus is primarily on doing what I can to reform my own religion, I also see the potential for good things in the future of Islam and Judaism.  Islam is around 1500 years old and about due for a reformation IMO... so it could be that the Arab world finally gets so tired of war and bloodshed that public opinion turns against Muslim extremism in favor of an interpretation of Islam that seeks more peaceful solutions to the issues that confront them.  With Judaism, the problem is mostly political -- there are religious Jews and there are Zionists, but the two aren't necessarily synonymous.  Hopefully the latter will realize sooner than later, that their religious beliefs and the concept of "anti-semitism" are being manipulated to great effect and used as a rallying cry by a very small and very power-hungry group of people, and that the biggest enemies of Jews and Judaism are not just the folks blowing themselves up in public places.

I just hope I'm not asking too much, for all this to happen before people are *forced* to wake up by a catastrophe of apocolyptic proportions... and maybe not even then.

Their may not have even been a (private agreement). Picture the scene you're sitting down at a table with someone you have seen perform undeniable miracles, you love this person with all your heart and would do anything to protect him this man has change your life and many others he has taught you how to live and everything you took for granted. He informs you that one of you will betray him. Imagine the paranoia amongst the disciples, this person is always right he raised Lazarus from the dead via the power of his words; this means they know one of them would betray Jesus. Now the disciples assure Jesus that they won't betray him. These disciples weren't listening hence the symbolic reference of the disciples sleeping when they should have been guarding Jesus while he was praying in the garden. Thus those who assured Jesus they wouldn't betray him didn't listen carefully to what was hinted to them. And how hard it must have been for Judas to come to his decision, a decision he had to make not knowing if it was right or wrong, if he misread his master's words or if his ego was tricking him, I would say that is a pretty hard decision.

So you're saying that when Jesus said one of them would betray him, he was *telling* one of them to betray him and giving them all a major test to see who would have the balls to do it, correct?  Very very interesting.  It might also explain why Judas had second thoughts after the deed was done, and killed himself... which he probably wouldn't have done if Jesus had flat out told him to do it.  I do think that when Jesus said "what you're about to do, do quickly" he was giving him the go-ahead, though.  If this is really what happened, then it's a damn shame he didn't live to see the resurrection.  

As for Limp Bizkit being the word of God... blasphemy!  Not because I have a problem with the concept... but because I can't bloody stand LB.  

That's some interesting stuff to think about too, though.  In the past I almost started a thread listing all the stuff in my music collection that refers or is themed after a lot of the stuff we talk about here... there's quite a lot of it.  Maybe I still will when I have time.

Judas did not betray Jesus; the kiss on the cheek was a mark of respect! Hint, hint
It was common practice for the Jews not to talk to the gentiles, therefore the Jews/believers where in the know, the gentiles were not in the know and understandably were a bit confused and wondered why the Jews wanted to kill what they 'Gentiles' perceived as the Jews own messiah.

Well, I actually give consideration (if not full acceptance) to the theory that there was a private agreement between Jesus and Judas to do what had to be done.  Part of the reason is that 30 shekels of silver was not very much money at all... but the amount had prophetic significance.  So I don't think Judas was doing it for personal gain.  However, the fact remains that the kiss was what signaled the authorities which guy to arrest... so whether you want to say it was a betrayal or a prearranged signal, the effect is basically the same.

"Its called a changeover, the moive goes on and nobody has any idea"

Y'know, I saw that movie the other day, and that made me think of you.  What an awesome movie, though.  /random

his death has most certainly to do with his badly injured neck, but I don't know any specifics, so it's just speculation.

IAM once talked about exactly what his injury was... unfortunately I don't remember much more than "really bad neck injury caused by ejecting from a plane years ago."  Anyway, I get the impression that it's kind of a stretch to connect an old neck injury with sudden heart failure.  I'm no anatomy expert though, so it's quite possible that I'm missing something.

You can say that again. Or can you? It could just turn into another power vacuum.

I think that's probably a bit closer to the reality of it.  Regardless of what forces may be behind current events though, they sure are interesting, aren't they?

Yes, but if I remember correctly, he often said (AFTER the deadline passed, that is), that the dates he gave were false from the beginning, and that he planned it this way, and that is nothing more than a cheap "excuse" in my opinion.

Yeah, "cheap excuse" occurred to me too.  However, this concept of his, of making predictions on days that they are astrologically guaranteed to fail, in order to prevent something from occurring, is somewhat intriguing IMO, and, at the very least, logically consistent.  So, while that part made me skeptical, I'm still at least giving it the benefit of the doubt, and a few points for creativity.

But how would that work? Karma is, afaik, either cause and effect, or "divine judgement". So if it is cause and effect, he feeds his enemies all their causes and effects (which doesn't make sense at all) until they die and vanish on every plane.

The way I understand it, he'd be feeding them all the effects of their causes, all at once, heh.  The way I once described it in one of these threads was similar to the movie The Crow if you've ever seen it.  If not, it's about a guy who rises from the dead to avenge his own murder, and the rape/murder of his girlfriend.  During the climax, Eric (crow-boy) and the evil guy whose name I don't remember are fighting on a rooftop, and Eric is losing, when he says "I have something for you... I don't want it anymore."  He puts his hands on the guy's head and says "24 hours of pain.  All at once.  All for you." at which point there's a quick succession of flashbacks to everything his girlfriend went through before she died.  The force of this sends the guy falling down the roof onto a large spire.  That would be an example of someone being fed their karma all at once... except in Oazaki's case, he's claiming that the amount of karma these people have accumulated over many lifetimes is enough to destroy them "on all levels" if they get it all at once.

If it is "divine judgement", then this means his enemies were doomed to vanish in the first place, which means that Oazaki has nothing to do with their vanishing, as it would be, again, only the effect of karma. Well, except you believe that he is in control of the "divine system", which would make him the most powerful being of the universe, or in other words: god.

Actually, the way I'd fit him in would be as an agent of God's will, similar to how angels are used in the Bible.  They're able to control cosmic forces not because they're more powerful than God, but because God gives them that ability in order to carry out specific tasks.  For a more human example, we could say that it was God's will for Jesus to be crucified for the salvation of mankind, but for that to happen it was necessary for Judas to betray him.  Thus, it was fated to happen from the beginning, but it took the actions of quite a few players to pull it off in practice.

And I'm still alive as you see,

Or... are you?  o_O  Heheh...

so he can't be that powerful. If you consider the fact that I'm neither a magican, nor do I do any energy work, or any banishing or defense spells techniques, then this means it's probably quite easy for a skilled psychic to attack and harm me. But so far, nothing. I'm still waiting for an effect. So either he did nothing until now, or he is not what he claims to be.

I'm hesitant to talk about this here as I don't want to be responsible for another thread getting pulled by overzealous mods.  However, I will say that yes, this is another strike against him... though not enough to count him out completely IMO.  It could be that he can't do it, or it could be that he just hasn't for whatever reason.  Personally, if *I* was who he claims to be, I would probably leave you alone *because* you don't have any psychic abilities, as I'd figure that it's not entirely fair to do that to someone who is not able to see things that haven't yet been presented in a physical way.  But that's just me... I can't really speculate on what someone's motives may be, especially if they're the Master of the Universe (tm).  :Þ

It didn't begin with extreme reactions, iirc, but it got worse after more people started to question him, his motives, and so on (again, iirc). I don't remember all the 9083475 pages of the thread, so I don't know what the main reason was, but I remember that Oazaki wasn't completely innocent in the whole thing, as he was quite arrogant and offensive to his critics.

Eh, to me it seemed more like he gave back what people gave him.  I say this because I questioned and debated with him as much as anyone else... but I always tried to be civil about it, and he was always civil to me.  On the other hand, there were the folks who were condescending and simply mocked his claims without really offering any kind of logical rebuttal, and he was condescending and arrogant right back.  I'm not going to say either side was right, but I also didn't think any of it was all that surprising, or excessively inflammatory.

First of all, he didn't (and probably won't in future) admit his failures. He failed with his predictions (besides other stuff) and just said that it was "planned" from the beginning.

Well in all fairness, he has always said that specific timetables are the most fluid thing about these predictions, and can't always be accurate.  His other consistent statement was that we would know for sure by the end of 2004.  

A while back when I was reading up on what he had to say elsewhere, I found this quote here: http://www.darkforum.com/showthread.php?t=40425&page=7&pp=10

and now we turn to 2004. and the drama begins shortly, very shortly indeed, to unfold. if nothing happens i will admit, fully and freely for all to hear that i was wrong. that is not a problem for me, i have no pride clouding my perception nor do i tie my self-worth to the proven truth or falsity of my belief structure. and i ask once again, and for the last time, if things do begin to happen, will you all admit - to yourselves more than to me, for it is your own being which is important here - that you were wrong? and how long before external events force you to so admit this to yourself? and will you do so before it is too late?

So there ya have it.  If 1/1/05 rolls around and nothing has happened on a global scale that can be irrefutably attributed to Oazaki, he has said that he will admit his error, and he should be called on it.  If the opposite should happen, then I will be happy to concede that he was right, and I hope that even those who dismissed his claims most vehemently will have the balls to do so as well.  There's no shame in being honestly mistaken... but willfully continuing in error is both dishonorable and extremely foolish.

Plus, he had obvious megalomaniac tendencies, saying he "slayed" a god (iirc) and has the power to control karma and what not.

A lot of people said the same thing about a certain carpenter who made a lot of wacky claims about being the son of God and savior of mankind, and predictions about Jerusalem being sacked and its temple destroyed within a generation.  The latter part of that is historically verifiable, and the former has convinced a lot of very intelligent people throughout history, even if you don't happen to believe it.

Secondly, I'm sure that a few centuries ago, if you said that one day man would control the power of lightning as easily as flipping a switch, people would likely have tried to burn you at the stake.  If there is such a phenomenon as karma, then it is part of the laws of the universe, and can be controlled, and it's only a matter of time until someone figures out how.  So, why not now?  

The point is that grandiose claims should not be dismissed simply because they are outside our realm of experience.

So, it's imho not surprising that people get not-so-nice and hostile against a megalomaniac and arrogant person, who continously fails without admitting it.

Not so nice, sure... but I think the reaction to Oazaki has almost bordered on the bizarre at times.  In all my years online, I've seen failed predictions and egotistical a-holes by the truckload... but *never* have I seen any of them run into the kind of extreme reactions and censorship he has so consistently encountered.  I'm not sure what it means; it's just always seemed strange to me... especially on a site where, if you think about it, most of the stuff we talk about is pretty strange to begin with.

I just wonder how many failures it will take until he "gets it".

I s'pose we'll know for sure in about a month and a half.

well, we shouldnt be to hard on Rome, afterall it was the Roman empire that eventially adopted christianity as the official religion; thus turning it into a world religion.. we wouldnt have christianity if it wasnt for them;

I'm not convinced this is the case.  Christianity was around for over three centuries, and was growing at an exponential rate when Constantine made it the state religion.  In fact, I'm sure that was a major reason *why* it was adopted by the empire -- because it was so popular.  IMO, it seems to me that Rome needed Christianity a lot more than Christianity needed Rome at that point, and I see no reason to believe Christianity would not have continued to thrive if it hadn't been co-opted.

christianity, as we understand it today *is* a Roman religion; a fusion of simplistic judeo-christian monotheism and complex theological neo-platonism.

Perhaps, but I don't see that as necessarily being a good thing.  Anytime you mix politics and religion (especially when the religion is made compulsory) you get people pouring into the religion whose motivations are more political than spiritual.  In the case of Christianity, that's when we start seeing the popularization of doctrines that weren't there to begin with, but nonetheless are effective toward consolidating money and power; the greatest example of which is the formerly Pagan belief in eternal torment after death.

so i wouldnt say they 'paid dearly for their offences' this idea was Augustine's, who had to come up with a reason to explain to pagans (and christians) why god allowed the city of Rome to be sacked by barbarians in 410, even although the empire had been officially christian since 313AD.

The offenses I'm thinking of are things like the usual atrocities and oppression that come with empire-building, but also the fact that Roman culture itself seemed particularly barbaric and brutal before its decline.  The Coliseum as a favorite form of entertainment immediately comes to mind.  I'd have to double check on this, but as far as I know, none of this came to an end with the adoption of Christianity.

So yeah, I tend to doubt that the Christianization of Rome (or the Romanization of Christianity) was all that pleasing to God, or good for the Church from a spiritual perspective, all things considered.

Agreed completely.  This thought that the messiah would be an earthly king and military leader who would defeat Rome was what incited some of the Jews to provoke the Romans into a war they couldn't win, and then it was what made the rest stay in Jerusalem until it was surrounded, and eventually destroyed.  Jesus had more to say and more explicit prophecies about this event than perhaps any other topic, but unfortunately very few people understood or believed him.  This continues today, which is why Revelation, which describes that war in apocolyptic terms, is probably the most misunderstood book in the Bible.

Unfortunately, modern Christians and Jews do not seem to have learned the lessons of history.  Today America is on the verge of being bled to death and bankrupted gradually by spreading its military thin in too many unnecessary conflicts, in much the same way the Roman empire spread itself to the point that its defenses were gradually chipped away by repeated barbarian invasions.  The Jews (at least the Zionist ones) have not learned the lessons of their historical persecutions and exiles, and are unfortunately using their relatively newfound power to persecute and exile others.  Both fully believe God is on their side in all their efforts.  Neither would recognize the messiah if he were to come again today.  Both might very well see a day of reckoning in our lifetime, in much the same way Jerusalem, and later Rome, paid dearly for their offenses all those centuries ago.  The parallels are numerous, and more than slightly eerie.

I ascribe to a partial-preterist view on Revelation, which is to say that most of the book was fulfilled by the Roman/Jewish war and surrounding events, but there is a bit toward the end of the book that has not been fulfilled by any historical circumstances from what I can tell.  IMO, history trails off at about Rev. 20:7, where Satan is loosened after the 1000 year period, after which comes the battle of Armageddon.

Just a brief look at current events says that the part where Israel is "surrounded by armies" is not all that farfetched, especially if America is too tied up in other military commitments to come to her aid.  As dire a situation as this would be, I believe there may be a silver lining.

It is a generally not too well understood fact that in the Bible, fire is commonly used as a metaphor for purification, and positive (though potentially painful) change.  Well, just as the armies surround Jerusalem and prepare to invade, "fire came down from Heaven and devoured the enemies of God."  I take "the enemies of God" in this instance, not to refer to human beings, but rather the carnal ego that makes them engage in these futile activities.  Thus, if I'm right, then just when things are at their worst, there will be some event that causes people to come to a rather sudden realization of the foolishness of their actions, and stop warring with each other.

A bit too idealistic?  Maybe.  But I think that at this point, praying for a miracle seems pretty appropriate.

Adam & Quiet Storm, aren't you two of the people who claim George Bush is dumb as a bag of rocks?

Count me as number three.  The guy might not be the brightest crayon in the box, but he's definitely got some very intelligent (for whatever else they may be) people behind him.  Dubya is just a visible front for the neo-con movement who happened to have enough name recognition to make him the most electable of the bunch.

Nope, one was just a reply on the ZMH thread, and the other was "Oazaki returns."  He didn't actually say a whole lot though... pretty much just reversed his decision to ban a certain member from requesting healing, and gave someone else a chance to reverse a decision of his own.  Sorry to be so vague, but if I say anymore than that I'll probably be censored myself, heh.

Yeah, that's one of the things that has intrigued me the most about this whole ordeal -- the guy seems to provoke such a visceral reaction in a lot of people, and in many cases the reactions are rather extreme compared to the circumstances that supposedly caused them.  Not entirely sure why that is, but I find it very interesting.

I don't think the predictions were meant as a joke or even a hoax, because 1. there's really not a whole lot that could be considered funny about any of it, and 2. hoaxes are usually a lot more believable; that's the whole point of setting one up.  An elaborate and manipulative psychological experiment?  Yeah, that possibility has occurred to me a few times.  Although... recent developments do seem to be narrowing down the possibilities.  I guess we'll at least be able to narrow them down even further in about two months.

Weird and unpopular, it seems.  He made two more posts here a day or two ago that got deleted soon after, though they didn't contain anything offensive that I could see.  I only saw 'em right when they got posted because I happened to be up at ungodly hours working on my endless pile of term papers.  Am I (and whichever mod yoinked them of course) the only one who saw those?

Things are definitely getting interesting, in any case.

From the way I've seen explained by a lot of people, including Robert Bruce, we don't actually *leave* our bodies per se, so there's not really any danger of something coming in while we're "gone."  Rather, a functioning copy of your consciousness is what actually projects, has experiences, and then reintegrates with your physical brain.

It'd be a bit like if you made a backup copy of all the information on your computer's hard drive, and then put the backed up stuff on a new computer.  Then you made some modifications to the information on the new computer, possibly downloaded some new software, and copied all the information back to the old, where it would overwrite what was already there with a few new things.  The first hard drive is your physical brain, the backed up information is your consciousness, and the new computer is your astral body.  The new things that come back from the new computer are the memories from your OBE.

So y'see, being in danger of having your body taken over is a rather moot point, because it is not ever left empty or unguarded.  Your physical brain and the consciousness that's hardwired into it are always ready to yank the astral copy of itself back to the physical the very instant it percieves any sort of threat or problem.

First of all, the circumstances surrounding my birth (namely that it almost didn't happen, and after it did, I spent my first few years repeatedly disproving all expectations about my survival and development) has always lead my family to believe there's some unique reason for my being here.  Indeed, defying expectations has been a major theme throughout my life, and there have been times when the thought that I have some specific purpose to fulfill was the only thing keeping me going.

Unfortunately, the other recurring theme is that I'm in this almost completely on my own.  Any progress I've made has usually been in spite of my fellow human beings rather than with their help or support, and from my perspective there's been very little, if any support from the spiritual realm either.  I'm open to the idea that it's been there all along and I haven't recognized it, but of course I have no way of knowing yet.

At this point I've come up against some roadblocks that seem to be standing in the way of my further development and my ability to help others in theirs.  What's more, they're set up in such a way that they can't be overcome without a bit of human help... which I'm not getting.  I've also received what I think are a few signals in dreams along the lines that I may be on the right track spiritually, but there are still things holding me back... but I have no idea what those blocks are, what they're holding me back from, or how to overcome them.  For quite some time I've been looking for a way to know whether I'm on the right track, or if not, what direction I should be heading in to get there.  I feel a growing sense of urgency on this, as present world circumstances seem to indicate that the world needs all the people with their heads on straight that it can get... yet I often wonder if I'm just chasing my own tail, only to be eventually consumed by said circumstances when the feces hits the fan because I wasn't prepared.

So my two main questions are:

A. Am I really as alone as I perceive myself to be?  Or is there anyone in the spiritual realm or physical world that has been or will be looking out for my best interest?  If so, what would be the best way to achieve contact, recognize, or align myself with them in a mutually beneficial relationship?

B. Am I heading in the right direction?  Do I even HAVE a direction?  What am I doing right or wrong, and what do I need to do in order to progress... or recognize any guidance that may be available at the very least?

Any feedback on any of this, or anything else AAM deems helpful to me personally would be very much appreciated.  Thanks.

I hear ya, PP.  My OBE efforts have been mostly sporadic and scattered, both in the methods I've tried and the times I've spent doing them.  I've really been plagued by the fact of not knowing whether I'm getting anywhere or just wasting my time, and I never know how long to spend on a certain technique before moving on.  This kind of structured program is *exactly* what I need to stay motivated and on task, and even after just three days I think I'm seeing results.  I was actually planning on making up some sort of regular schedule for myself and never got around to it, so it's awesome that RB has already done all the work for me.  So yeah, even though I haven't been at it for very long, I do recommend the book.

Well, he said "give or take a day or 2" the darkening would start on the 14-15th and it would continue onto the 20th or so..

Still watching... and all I've seen is a bit of rain, which was kinda nice, albeit distinctly un-apocalyptic.

I'll say one thing though, if the "transition" happens before midterms, I'll be a happy man.  ::dies::  

Re: the thing about a voter registering org on the GOP's payroll destroying Democrat's registrations, I saw this in the NY Times the other day, and thought about posting it here.  It doesn't really surprise me, but I hope it gets as much publicity as possible.

Heh, I had a strange experience with this thing last night.  I decided to put it on when I went to bed... but this was after spending hours on an essay, and I was sleep deprived to begin with, so I was pretty exhausted.  All I remember is jumping several times when either the tone changed, or someone signed on my AIM bud list, which I forgot to turn off.  Guess I didn't have the volume low enough.  The weird thing was that I woke up this morning to find my headphones sitting on the computer desk next to my bed, but the file was still playing... apparently I took them off at some point, but I have no memory of this.  All I can think of is that I gave up and went to bed, not realizing I was in some level of trance, and zoned out to the point that I completely lost the time in between.  Now I definitely want to try it again while sitting up and meditating so I don't zonk out again, heh.

For what it's worth, I notice O made a prediction in that other forum about the skies darkening on the 14-15th.  I suppose it's possible he was predicting the sun would set those nights, but...  :X

OD, if you get the version that comes with a CD (maybe they all do, I don't know), there's quite a bit of other helpful stuff as well, like recorded affirmations, brainwave presets and subliminal recordings.

Anyway, last night I listened to one of the lucid dreaming presets for about a half hour before bed, then went to bed with the subliminal OBE file playing on headphones... and woke up several times to sleep paralysis.  It didn't result in full exit (which I've never had) but this is a big deal to me because I haven't been able to get the vibrations AT ALL since like last spring.  I definitely plan to follow the 90 day program, and I'm confident about the outcome.

So now the fact that things haven't happened is in itself evidence that something is going to happen?  

Not as such.  I don't claim to know what, if anything is *going* to happen.  All I'm saying is that all these near-misses give one a sense of a building tension in the world, and I'm wondering if the energy being generated is going to make the one that finally does come through (as it's almost statistically guaranteed sooner or later) all that much more dramatic as a result.

Good to see you (and everyone) back, QS.  

While AP has been down, I've been thinking...  and have begun to wonder if something really huge isn't barely holding itself back (or being held back by God knows who), and maybe not for much longer.  For so long, we've been seeing all these *potential* cataclysms and disasters... we all hold our breath, the dates come and go, and the threat passes.  And I'm not just talking about Oazaki either... I'm talking about observable things like Toutatis (sp?) Mt. St. Helens, rumblings here in CA, etc.  So far, Florida has really been the only big hit.  But there definitely seems to be a lot of tension building, to the point that the earth itself is rumbling just beneath the surface.  While it's nice that there hasn't been anything hugely catastrophic (apart from poor Florida), I can't help but wonder if every false alarm doesn't bring us that much closer to the breaking point.

My other thought though... is what if all this pent up energy could be used toward mankind's benefit?  Would it be possible for a person to take some of this tension into himself and convert it into equally powerful positive energy?  Would it even be wise for the average person to try?  I don't know the answer to that, but someone more proficient in energy manipulation might.  For all I know, there are probably lots of people working toward something like that already.  'Tis just something I've been thinking about.

Y'know, this makes me wonder if "paradise" is what Robert Monroe called "the park" if I recall.  Certainly sounds like a pretty good fit to me.

[I hope you don't mind if I toss in my .02 on these questions, Berserk. And for what it's worth, I always find your posts interesting and insightful.]

I hope you don't mind if I toss in my .02 on these questions, Berserk.  And for what it's worth, I always find your posts interesting and insightful.  

1. What is the purpose of Heaven?

Well, Jesus said in both the canonical gospels and some of the Gnostic ones that "the kingdom of Heaven is within you."  Thus, "heaven" is a state of mind that you achieve and take with you; your geographical location is irrelevant.  In light of this, I'd say its purpose is spiritual development and union with God.  Heaven is not about going "somewhere" when you die if you've been good, professed the right creed, or anything else -- Heaven is about how far you've come in rending the artificial and self-imposed veil between yourself and God.

2. Can our deceased loved ones monitor our spiritual progress?


The simple answer: if they want to, sure.  I don't think they're compelled to though by any means.  The afterlife is all about freedom (or at least as much freedom as you're prepared to experience) and I'm sure they do have their own affairs to tend to on the other side, after all.  Then again, since I don't believe they experience time as linear as we do, it's probably possible to get an eternity of stuff done while still checking in on your living friends and relatives every now and then, without having lost any time either way.

3. Are the recently deceased more spiritually evolved than they were in
this life?

Depends.  If you've never had an OBE, then I would think the mere firsthand experience of conscious existence outside the body would be a quantum leap for most people.  Then again, if you don't handle your death well, don't realize you've died, or end up in one of the lower "hellish" realms, it might be more of a sticky issue.  On the other side of the coin, if you're a mystic with a good number of frequent flier miles accumulated on the astral plane already, then death would probably just be experienced as a seamless continuation of one's evolution.

4. Is Heaven a realm for evolutionary soul progression?

Within the framework of what I said about Heaven above, yes.

5. From a biblical perspective, is it possible for "spiritual" or "godly" non-
Christians to go directly to Heaven after death?

If they're spiritually developed and their only problem is mistaken theology, then I would think that all they'd need as a simple "hi, I'm Jesus, and this is the way things really are" to clear the air.  Then again, judging by the current state of things, I'd probably say that most Christians will be in for much of the same as well.

6. Can the biblical Hell be reconciled with the New Age Hells and the Hells
experienced through OBEs?

No, because the biblical "hell" is not anything close to the traditional hell.  Short explanation: four different words have all been translated as hell, the problem being that they all meant different things.  Sheol/Hades refer to "the grave" of all the dead.  Gehenna was a literal flaming trash dump just outside Jerusalem.  Tartarus was a sort of prison where "sinning angels" await judgment, and appears only once.  So, while the new age hells may or may not be real, they aren't talked about in the canonical Bible.

7. Can people be retrieved from Hell and brought up to Heaven?

I don't believe one's chance for progress and evolution ever expires, so yes.

[a more in depth response than my earlier post]
8. Did the early Christians practice astral projection?

Asking whether the early Christians did just about anything can't really be answered in any definitive way, since Christian communities until about the 4th century were so diverse in their beliefs and practices.  That said, there's a lot of stuff in the Bible that sounds suspiciously like AP-related phenomena, and a lot more in much of the extrabiblical material, so I think we can be relatively sure that at least some of them were doing it.  I'd say it was probably much like it is today -- there are people who are more mystically inclined, and others (probably the majority) who aren't so much concerned with such things.  I wouldn't be surprised if many Gnostic groups practiced it as an official part of their religion, but unfortunately they were secretive, and later surpressed, to the point that we know very little about their actual practices.  Anyway, there's a great book I just picked up that you might be interested in: Lost Christianities, by Bart Ehrman.  It looks at a lot of what information we do have about these dissenting groups, and really goes into the question of where we'd be today if any one of these groups had won the favor of Constantine (or if none of them had) instead of the "proto-orthodox."

On toward the middle ages, I think AP probably would've been less frequent, or at least less open; I'd think the medieval Catholic church would've frowned on such things as being demonic.  Also, Christian mystics of that period seemed to view such things as just another distraction, and there was a desire to completely bypass all of it in favor of moving toward direct union with God.

For what it's worth though, I differ with them on this.  To me it's like sprinting the whole way on one's journey, without paying any mind to the sights or experiences along the way.  IMO, we'll have all eternity to achieve union with God, but all the experiences along the way aren't something to be passed over.  I want to experience everything I can (including everything the astral plane has to offer), and I believe it'll make total union all that much greater when I get there.