Messages

Quick question, slightly off topic.  I've been wondering for a hell of a long time now, what does IMO stand for?

Thanks!

I know what RTZ is all about, I read the FAQ on it and ran it off in a hardcopy.

No problem with, flying, that was great, but my main concern is the projections occuring when I don't want them and when I had no intention to do them.  It was probably the focus states that opened the pathway so to speak, but I don't want to go floating off in class one day, or maybe I do, that would be new!

Andali

This has happened before on another occasion but in a different form, this is from last night.  Here goes.

I'm not really regretting what happened but am frustrated by the fact that it actually does happen without my consent.

I went through my usual AP/Focus states routine, only getting to a deep F10 and after that, as I usually do, got bored, got up for a few minuets, went back to bed then proceeded to try and go to sleep.

I knew I couldn't have been dreaming because I had barely been asleep for an hour.  I was probably bordering around the 'twilight zone' when I felt pre-exit symptoms.  I don't get anything like violent vibrations or things like that (only even did twice), simply a soft feeling over my body and a loose kind of feeling.  The next second, I was standing and making a B-line for my wall, which I intended to go through.  I figured it was belief systems still holding me back cause I hit the wall.  I tried again but to no avail, before I opened the door experimentally.  I figured I wasn't RTZ but somewhere else if I could interact with physical matter, or whatever it is.

Annoyed, I zapped back, thinking that I shouldn't do that again.

I was lying on my stomach when it happened and tried to alter my sleeping position so it wouldn't happen again.

Alas, it did, along with the pre exit symptoms.  I kind of 'floated out' top half first, half in half out hanging over my bed.  I waited and eventually my legs came free.  It kind of clicked that I was floating so I took advantage of that and pretty much went zooming around my room, watching it below as I did so.  I rose, dove, tried to get through a wall, it didn't work.  I turned and even felt my hair floating back against me as I stopped for a moment, it was down and wasn't when I went to sleep.  I kind of pushed off the wall then everything started to take on a lucid feel so I got out of it.

I was C1 again and was going to just turn over and sleep but figured it would probably happen again cause I could feel it coming.

I ended up getting up, recording the experience, then I stuffed around for about ten minuets before I went back to bed, endeavouring to make myself uncomfortable so it wouldn't happen again, it didn't.

It was a great experience mind you, the flying and all, but the problems I had was getting through the wall.  I figured since I could open the door, it wasn't RTZ, no biggie.  Then there is the fact that I was lying on my stomach both times it happened without me even wanting it to.  As much as I like the progress, it happening without my consent is kind of annoying, especially when have school in the morning.

Problem three, I think, Is it a problem that I don't have stronger pre-exit signs or was it because I was already half asleep, that I didn't notice anything besides the warm fuzzy feeling?

How can I go RTZ if it just happens when it wants to?  Also, no "clarity now" "fully clarity now" techniques seem to make my vision clearer.  I can see, that's enough, but the room was dark kind of, making me wonder if the RTZ version of my reality or whatever it's called, almost exactly mirrors the hours of the physical, give or take a few hours.  All this happened before midnight.

Also, at the moment, I can't seem to go beyond my room, though it's probably not a good idea as yet, as I still have some little mobility problems.

Sorry for the long post but can someone answer my questions?

Andali

I actually made mine myself.  Though you could probably do a google search under images for them and turn up some ones to print off.  I just found an old deck of cards and stuck some pictures on.  Type in Zener Cards and search of it.  I put colors to mine, red cross, orange circle, green star, black square, blue wavy lines.  Good luck!

Andali

Sorry Major Tom !

Soooooooo,..... where do people wanna go when they AP?

Nostic, I think Admin should crown him king or something.  I mean, almost everyone would agree that without him, no one would get anywhere!

she's standing up against the king of the AP forums

Now you're scaring me .  He'll probably never help me with anything again!  

Andali

P.S. I really see no harm in expressing what I believe in.  I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes.  I mean, people thought the guy who said the world was round was a nutter.  Hearing all corners of the spectrum helps people develop their own views, and I greatly respect Frank's view, theories and the many other valuable things he offers this forum.

Prolatrevol, what are you talking about?  Pleiadians are meant to be aliens or something!

On another note:
Frank

all I would say is for you to prepare, then, for a big surprise

Care to elaborate?   I could say the same thing!

Andali

http://www.spiritual.com.au/articles/astral/astralp1_rbruce.htm

Has the whole treatise online!  Merry Christmas fellow APers!!

I know a lot have been looking for it since it's no longer available here but your waiting has reached it's end!  Use it well young padawans, and may the force with with you!

Andali

(Guess who's been watching Star Wars? )

In a hundred years time there won't be a religious construct to be seen. Like all the other dinosaurs they'll all be dead and gone.

Gotta disagree with you there Frank.  If in a hundred years there's no religion I'd be very surprised.  That would mean people would have to pretty much trash religious accounts such as the Bible and other such books and records.  That would also mean that some things that have been 'predicted' in the bible, would also have to be considered false when evidence to prove them true is growing stronger.  My opinion, the answers we really want are in the Vatican.  It's common opinion that they've edited the Bible over time, taking away things from it that may prove their religion false.

The only reason more and more people are turning away from religion is because they refuse to believe something that would remove them from their zone of comfort, so to speak.  More things are becoming available that peak their interest away from religious things.  Over time, the world is going to rack and ruin.  If there was no religion and no belief in God in 100 years time, we'd be living in a world full for war, famine, disease (hmm, sounds familiar?) and we wouldn't be able to turn a corner without some government faction sticking its noes up our rears.  That's not how the vast majority of the world wants to live.

This gets to the question you have with religion. If there was no Big Bang, God made everything, then where did God come from? Where did We come from? Or is it that we simply don't understand anything that isn't constrained by time?

Is it too hard to believe that it was "always there?"  Like a circle?  No beginning, no end.  If you're referring to God as Jesus then, obviously he had a father once, maybe in heaven as a spirit, or ethric being, or however you want to term it.  Coming to Earth may have been the only way to experience the Physical, to progress beyond what we/he already knew.  But in doing so, throw a spanner in the works and erase memory.  That way, you have a choice.  Live in the physical, discover the right way to go, when you die, return to heaven much much wiser then before on more levels than one.  Like generations through time, maybe God's father had a father, and then his father had a father and so on and so forth.

I like the idea: we simply don't understand anything that isn't constrained by time

It's probably not even on the same time scale that we're used.  Maybe 'God' exists in F15, state of no time, or maybe there is time, just not as we understand it.  In a computer simulation I did once in a class at Multimedia, we decided to see how fast we could get an image to move.  Eventually it was going so fast it was standing still.  So the story goes, God created the Earth in seven days, six to be precise because on the seventh day he rested.  You couldn't very well create a world in seven earth days so time in that sense must be something we don't understand.

Then again, another interesting theory someone I know came up with was that perhaps our entire world exists within someone else's focus whatever oC.  Maybe 4oC or another like it.  When we phase, or project or whatever, what we're going into is someone else's reality and when we create what we want in those levels, we're out of sync with the rest of the program, a matrix type thing but based on different laws.

We create our reality, true enough, but in a sense, our reality was there when we came to earth, and we built up from it.

I don't believe in the big bang theory, I can't understand the scientific concept that once there were two atoms, they got happy, and poof! , There's our world!  Where did the atoms come from I wonder?  Scientists are only beginning to suddenly realise that our Universe may be infinite.  They grapple with that, trying to put a mathematic formula to it when it's something they'll probably never be able to understand because it exits beyond their level of thinking.

There may very well be a God but not a God in the bible sense but a God of our reality.  The guy responsible for everything we are, discovered and have.  Earth may be just another Focus oC, something small on a much larger scale that we may not understand.

I've wandered all over the place with this.  I'm not trying to diss anyone's theories here, just presenting another point of view for consideration.  Be open minded with this one people!

Andali

Just a little off topic.

He he,     I'm laughing now cause this is the second time I started a thread and it's been taken over by people who know me than me!  I'm not bothered by it, I think it's great!  keep going!

Andali

You're welcome Telos


Andali

I guess about here I should point out that when I tried in that morning, I hadn't actually been trying.

It seems to be a repeating problem  I encounter,  I end up with something when I have absolutly no intention.  Like this morning, a day off school ment that I could sleep in but sleeping in decided to include itseld in about two spontaneous RTZ projections where I hardly could move at all.  That and the fact whenever I have an intention to get to F21, I end up at a light F12 and no further.  Then I overheat and have to get up.  Come to think of it, I never used to overheat until recently, hmmm.

That and the fact all RTZs are happening with reality fluctuations, minimal movement and me just sitting up realising that I'm not really getting up but have in fact 'popped out' so to speak.

Frank, this 4focus model you talk about, I've heard it mentioned a fair bit but have never actually caught on to what it is, can you please explain it further?

Once you can Phase to Focus 4oC you won't want to go anywhere else, lol. It's whacky and wild and a whole lotta fun!

See, people tell me these things and then I wind up with experience on top of experience, and though that's not a bad thing and I'm glad I'm actuallly getting somewhere, it tends to frustrate me that my original intention is just cancelled out and I end up with something else.  I've had no intention to get to the RTZ and keep ending up there.  The thing I'm actually trying to do is get to  F21 so I can float aroun in the 3D blackess and listen to a 'piece of music' (good idea Frank, I've been looking through my CD collection for something worthy of it when I do it).

The sounds aren't so much a bother as other things but at the moment, the vibes are coming about as a paralysis episode and when I go to move, I find I can which is rather strange, but the feeling is still there and that brings on something else.

Gee I type too much.

I guess my basic problem is keeping on track and unintentionally having other things happen.

Andali

Okay, this may be a bit long so sit tight.

I ran into a couple of things and need some clarification.  I recall from reading something that there's a certain part to focus states that includes something called 'nullpoint', somewhere between F12 and F21.  I seemed to have encountered this twice in a 24 hr period while attempting F-states and AP.  I was drifting and had some annoying song repeating in my head and  I just 'snapped back' to term it, and kind of felt inbetween something though I had been drifting in and out of F12 for about ten minuets that night when I encounted the null as it where.  I never got to F21 from it but something else occurred.

I remember the first time I had the vibes, first two times actually, how they weren't exactly gentle but I believe I came across them by developing a 'ho hum' attitude as it's been deemed.  They weren't giving my any discomfort but I remember the sound of a chainsaw starting up outside my window (in the middle of the night, I think not, auditory hallucinations)

I also recall a partial seperation of my head but I wasn't able to disengage from the physical apart from that, no matter how I willed.  I recall an increase in pulse and a rising and falling sensation and other oddities in sound such as high pitched sqeaks.

I used a visualisation I've developed, counting down from ten to one to get me to  F10 and then I basically switch to auto from there from the act of 'noticing'.  I was happy with whatever happened but another thing happens that annoys me on a regular basis.

My body temperature will suddenly rise quite fast whenever I'm actually "getting somewhere" and I'll overheat wherever I am.  I try to wait it out, hoping it will go back to normal but I end up cutting whatever I'm doing short only to find that when I get up, I'm fine.

Any ideas?  Also, a clarification on this 'null point' thingie, please?

I also got slight vibes that morning, plus the null again but was able to pull nothing from it.

Any suggestions or thoughts ont this.  Also, maybe anything I may be doing wrong or right for that matter?  I'm basically asking for a troubleshoot for future attempts.  Anyone game?

Andali

I fly all the time.  It was what I ended up programming my subconscious to do when I became lucid.  So as soon as I realised I was dreaming, I'd fly.  He he!!!

It's weird when that happens.  I had an odd one.  I dozed and as I was drifting, I was thinkingmust remind my sis to get the newspaper from school' and then I thought I woke, and I started calling out to her to remember to get it.  She replied and I recall playing some music while I was still getting up.  I woke up for real and thought hang on, I asked her if I had asked her and she said no.  I trusted her with this though cause the more I thought about it, the more it became apparent that I had had a false awakening and dreamt what I was going to do when i woke.  Strange tis it not?

Andali

Dunno.  I kind of feel different in a way that I can't really describe because I know all these things that others don't and I have this massive secret no one else wants to know (what's the point of the secret then?? )  I've been thinking about it more lately.  I walk around each day like usual but underneath there's something more.  A realisation others can't even begin to comprehend or would want to.  It's riviting really when I sit down and think about it.

Willis, you're right.  If people were more open to the subject and not so close minded, only believing what science says is possible, we'd be living in a different world.

Overall, I'm the same me during the day but I'm more in tune with everything and at night, a lone adventurer (when I actually project on purpose, *shrugs* win some lose some   )

Andali

There is no blurring of the line.  If you can't tell the difference then you need to practice more.  APing and dreaming may be looked at the same (because it's thought you AP when you dream) but there's a difference to it.

We're not 'slapping names on' anything.  You can't choose what dreams you have but you can choose where you project to (if you're advanced enough).  That's the difference.

Smart people don't leap to conclusions.  They read up on what they're doing and develop their own ideas.

No one is confusing AP with dreams.  Most dreams play out an abviously preset scenario where your subconscious mind draws what it's going to do from your memories, personality etc.

AP is done consiously and with an intent.  Dreams take off on their own accord and only become lucid if you become aware that you acutally are dreaming.  Even then you can hardly change the scenario and are limited to waht you can do because you're grounded by belief systems.

AP has a whole other set of rules.

Quoting Frank
Every idea, concept, invention, construct, etc., etc. that has been or ever will be invented or otherwise introduced within our physical reality is already lodged within Focus 2 of consciousness. So any story or animation, music, or whatever, can be experienced within this area. ,

is done consiously.

If you're confusing the two, or believing that you can, there are some good threads on the topic of Dreaming vs AP.

Though some AP experiences turn Lucid after a while, they can be forgotten if you go back to sleep because even though you are consious, your body is in sleep mode while you're away and won't retain the journey, like it doesn't retain the dreams you have at 2am depending on where you are in the sleep cycle.

No one is trying to blur the line or smush the two together.  In retrospect, we're saying if you set the place you want to go, and go there with intent and full consiousness, how can you possibly be dreaming?

Andali

Well, I must say that this thread had been really helpful!

Think of F12 as an F21 "launch pad". The imagery is created to enable a person to progressively follow along the thread of it to the source of the imagery. Once you are at that source (F12), the release of the expectations of a Focus 21 experience should be all that is necessary to keep the situation rolling, so to speak.

It's like poetry!  I'm not being sarcastic but this has given me a lot to think about in terms of where I am currently at.  I've always thought any sort of imagry is a great way to keep your mind on track as long as it ties in with what you're trying to acheive.  When I first started, I found that simply lying there with nothing to focus on except an intent, would send me to sleep rather then where I wanted to go.

I took an unintentional break and eventually came back to trying and found it easier.  As it seems to be from what I've read.

I've actually printed off this thread for reference when I become more 'educated'  Seriously, I had to look up some words you guys used.

epistemological

Thanks Telos, I learnt a new word!!

Good Luck!

Andali

So I'm taking it that I was projecting then, DAMN it!  I didn't get up!!!!  *Grabs head in frustration*  "stupid brain!"

I've definitely visited the Star Trek universe and flirted with Jadzia Dax

I'd bop on down to the stargate universe and take a trip through the gate and kick some Go'uld a*s*s!

Anime huh?  How about the world of Disney animation?  Now I so wanna go solar surfing!  Treasure Planet!!!

Andali

waaaaaa!  I don't live in NY!!!!

One of my friends and I have this weird connection thing going.  We're forever saying things at the same time, finishing eachother's sentances and other such things.

Actually, on my school bus, there's us two and two other girls, we suddenly shout out 'what am I thinking of' and we can usually guess right each time.  One of the girls had about seven straight hits.  We were using the Zener card images "orange circle, black square, green star, blue wavy lines, red cross"

It's pretty cool.

Back on the parents issue, both my mum and dad (mum moreso) like sci-fi but not into the whole 'believing' in things such as AP, tk, etc.  It'd be kind of weird actually saying it "err, Mum, Dad, I've been meaning to tell you something *deep breath*, I, I'm an Astral Projecter"

AP Annonyms anyone?

Andali

Anyway on the way home I could see these weird invisible floating white moving particles everywhere (thought I was high).

I always see them aswell when I look up at the sky.

  He he, I get that too, not the triple white light thing, don't know what that is, but the moving particles, they're floaties in ur eyes!  Magnified dust particles and such.  Sorry to bust your bubble.

Andali

I was talking to a friend the other day and we were recounting our favourite television shows when we wondered, why not project to some place other than the RTZ or Astral Realm?  Why not to the world a book you've read was set in?  Or why not invade the SCG from Stargate SG-1 just so you can take a trip through the wormhole?

What about a story you wrote or read?  You have it all in your imagination, the world, everything!

A movie?  Even if it was animated, or life action, like Lord of the Rings, APing there would be just    .

Has anyone tried it?  I knew there used to be a thread here once about AP to fictional places, but who else would want to go anywhere in their imagination/into a TV series/movie/book  etc?  I can't be the only one.  Where would you want to go?