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[Most people don't realise this, but it takes several years of practice (for most people) to enter the astral straight through meditation (sometimes referred to as a "Fully Conscious Projection".)]

Most people don't realise this, but it takes several years of practice (for most people) to enter the astral straight through meditation (sometimes referred to as a "Fully Conscious Projection".)

Why is this?

What is "astral RTZ"?

When I imagine going down the tunnel, and bringing in most of my senses intensely, my upper body begins to shake violently by itself. That it was what I meant by my other post.

Does your actual physical body vibrate aswell when projecting?

Thanks for the link CF.

Thanks for the file kiwibonga, i'll make sure to try it out.

Just there I was highly relaxed with a clear mind and I was imagining myself falling down a dark tunnel and then I imagined the wind hitting me, the smell of the tunnel, what exactly it looks like, and the upper part of my  physical body started to "shake", or "pulse" by itself from the inside. It happened everytime I imagined the scene in much detail.

What is this?

Thanks man, I am very passive, I will try your suggestions

What types of structured OB practices are there?

Hi. I have been trying to OBE a lot lately, but to no result.

I relax my body and try to keep my mind clear, but my body could have no feeling for HALF AN HOUR yet I still wouldn't have feelings of OBE'ing at all. Like I was very tired going to bed last night, but kept my mind awake. I was awake for 4 hours straight, with a conscious mind, no feeling in my body but still no OBE.

Can someone help?

Appearently the brain is still functioning properly even on a flat EEG. (according to Master Jingo)

Last night, after the twitching of the eyes, I felt some vibration up my legs but they stopped after a bit at my legs. I then for the next 2 hours felt as if my body was hovering a couple of inches up and down (not my entire body though), but I never got those intense vibrations again and  I never left my body.

What is this?

Is there anymore news about the brain functioning well evens week after no EEG activity is present?

Not sure if it was astral linked or not, but here it goes.

I was meditating for roughly 20 minutes, saying "aum" and consciously paying attention to my oxygen intake and outtake. The "screen" before my closed eyes are normally bright, pink. But then the "screen" turned dark, with different types of shapes coming and going there, and when I focused my concentration more into the darkened screen my eyes started to twitch, does anyone know what this is? The screen went bright about 10 seconds later again. This happens at least twice every mediatation session.

PS: I sometimes see peoples faces in this screen, faces I don't consciously think of.

["The brain isn't functioning. It's not there. It's destroyed. It's abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don't know what's happening and the brain isn't working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won't remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences (a NDE), you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."]

People can have NDE's aswell walking down a street aswell, and in many other places. It is not limited to just dying, and I think some people may have NDE's later than others while dying.

You have a good point about when should we be classified as dead, when does the brain stop functioning normally. We'll have to find out when the brain stops producing clear experiences, like an NDE, and if an NDE occurs before or after this. though people who experience NDE's do have no sense of time, so there mind might be in a "non locality zone" (as quantum physics puts it).

Also, this is a quote about NDE's from Dr Peter Fenwick: (a neurologist)

"The brain isn't functioning. It's not there. It's destroyed. It's abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don't know what's happening and the brain isn't working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won't remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences (a NDE), you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."

(taken from http://www.near-death.com/experiences/lsd04.html)

It is weird alright with "if this was true you could cure this and that".

I am almost certain that psychic abilites do exist, but whether they are so advanced to do all these things that are possible, I don't think so yet. But remember, we only need ONE person out of 6 and a half BILLION people to do these things, and psychic abilities are confirmed.

Sorry, what I meant is neurology is just an assumption about consciousness and that stuff. A person has a NDE and they automatically think it is a problem with the brain, avoiding the profound experience it was on the individual, rather than some hazard that they can hardly remember.

Also about the brains core processes, if memory is a thing of the brain, do you not think that it would be affected at all with the brain running much less than it's optimal capacity? When people go throught the tunnel they see, let's say Jesus, they can remember him in vivid detail, and their passed away relatives too. This all points to consciousness still operating at full capacity, a feat which I think would be impossible if it was produced by the brain, because the brain would be in disarray IMO when it's electrical activity cannot even be sensed on the EEG.

Also, what do you think of the eastern philosophies? Like we discussed the western but the east hold interesting ones aswell, like Buddhism for example. (plus if we have ET's they might have some too )

If we went through time, studying things like the western view of the brain, how would we know that the planet revolves, with nothing short of us turning it outselves proving that?

I think neurology is just assumption.

Do you think there has to be a meaning to life? Life would make no sense if you die, and your just.......dead for ever.

People passing away, like a mother loses her daughter she would never get over her, and the same goes for a father and son. It would just not fit in properly if oblivion only waited for you.

IMO there has to in the end be some kind of afterlife, EVERY human has a love for someone else (that goes way beyond reproduction of genes) and EVERY human wants to survive death, you can NEVER deny that. If we were not meant to survive death I don't think nature would have made us want to so much, make us conscious beings, and want to disappoint us in the end. Even the most hardcore "I don't believe in an afterlife" alive wants to survive death. So much emotion in the world towards it. Everyone wants to have an afterlife, because we all have a longing towards it. The people who think oblivion just don't have everything sorted out, and think we must be gone forever due to thinking we are purely biological survival animals, even though they want an afterlife.

Before humans thought the Sun was God, thought the earth was flat and centre of the universe, that there was a rain God, thunder God, the list goes on. I don't think humans are robobts, there is no limit on what life holds, and I think in millions of years to come people will hold the way we interpret consciousness, the brain, our view of the universe (including us being only biological survival humans) now in the same manner as the people who believed in water Gods, and the like.

What does everyone think?

Interesting theory zyzyx.

And MJ, I meant to say it in that consciousness is non-physical, and science would have to expand their boundaries to cater for that.

I think with the brain activity still operating during a NDE, that is because people are still alive to report back! People who permanently died may have experienced an NDE, but they completed it, and so they didn't come back. During NDE's people come out of their body and enter through a tunnel, they see the surgery before and afterhand. How come the NDE didn't last longer than that? Like until their brains core processes went completely dead. (if NDE's are produced by the brain that is)

You have to remember that there is such thing as materialisation mediums, and I think they prove conclusive evidence of the afterlife. If we go off this, that a person does in fact survive death, then the brain still operating on a dead EEG doesn't hold much function.

Yes, an OBE is a non-physical phenomena. For science to prove, and therefore accept, they'll have to accept the existence of non-physical phenomena, a feat I don't think they will make.

We are going to hit a stalemate in science soon.

Hi MJ

Agree with the NDE experiences, which is why I would love for more research to be done here. But we cannot ignore the fact that people who experience NDEs/OBEs still have a living functional brain.

I disagree, because there are "core processes" still operating in the brain does not mean you still have  a fully functioning one. According to the EEG meter, when your brains electrical activity is displayed, memory and having experience is working fine. With the brain activity so low as to not appear on the EEG, I dobut it is possible of producing such an experience. People who experience NDE's have a clear and an amazing experience.

The brain running in "core mode" could have a useless meaning for all we know, we do not know if it even operates properly in that mode (or is repsonsible for these experiences). Maybe it is just the brain slowing alll the electrical activity down after it's been going all your life? Maybe when (duing a NDE) you make a choice of not coming back or not. Maybe the brain remains in this core mode to allow the option of coming back? I think you have to examine NDE's from an afterlife perspective too, and not solely on the dying brain.

And if the NDE is the effect of a dying brain how come it doesn't happen to everyone who is dying. Why is it that not all of those who are near death whose brain is 'dying' experience a NDE?

And also there are many accounts of people having near death experiences returning with factual information which they had no prior knowledge of. These include being able to identify ancestors from pictures, learning about siblings who had died before their own birth, learning about family secrets etc. Others were able to document information they had learned about future events (see for example Eadie 1992, Brinkley 1994).

And I don't think the idea of the brain downloading information is entirely belief, people place these views on their experiences, they don't just make them up without reasoning. People can get information from elsewhere, ie remote viewing, which simply cannot be functioned directly by the brain, the idea is plausible and it can explain phenomena.

Also, I think consciousness is fundamental to the questions we are proposing here, and this is a feat western medicine has not examined closely. I think they even totally avoided it when calculating these "up to date" neurology theories. Study quantum physics for an explanation of consciousness. This field adds an entirely new idea to neurology in proving that consciousness is not solely a product of the brain.

And if the NDE is true, it has non-physical implications. We are getting nowhere with these experiements only going by physical means. We are a LONG way from forming a true hypothesis

You are clever Beth! If only the people who follow christianity thought like you.

I'll try to get out of this focus first!

^great post

What do eastern mystics say about these kind of experiments? (trying to invalidate OBE's)

can someone up the book version of The Secret?