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my mother use to have these terrible visions all the time with my sister when she was first born. she never had them with me. there weren't any car seats back then (might remember)...ah the good ol' days when kids use to get to ride up front  anyway...she'd have these very vivid visions of throwing my sister out of the window into the middle of traffic, esp. on the freeway. or tossing her off balconies, or putting her in the oven, etc.

it freaked her out big time. to the point where she didn't want to be alone with her. there was another time she envisioned placing her on the chopping board and hacking her up...that was so bad...she gave her to me & told me to run into the woods with her and hide, and not come out no matter what.
i was eight! but that involved some magic shurms, so i don't think that counts.

anyway...she went for help and the doctor told her it was completely normal. esp. with new mothers (an aspect of post-partum i guess) (maybe also with highly empathetic people?!?) anyway he said that it's the people that never have the visions (or have the ability to visualize) who are the ones that actually perform the acts. that playing it out in your mind, even subconsciously is far healthier. i'm not saying this guy was 100% correct, but it helped my mom immensely. didn't stop her from continuing to freak the sh*t out of me though?!? and that understanding established a certain logic in my mind that it was far healthier to get angry, then to keep it bottled up...amityville horror (1979) & then the shining (1980), and my focus turned towards my mild-mannered father...who i swore was going to butcher us all in our sleep bcuz he never got upset about anything!:shock:

word to the wise...don't sneak your under-age children into horror flicks if you want them to be normal later in life.

Though opinions themselves are not rare and tend only to justify the means of those who deliberately go out of their way to establish them, the FEAR of opinion can manifest itself in some people to such an extent that it becomes real.

huh?!?

i think i've missed more than a few posts in this thread. i can't keep up.
but i still have no idea on this...

does anyone have a copy of the e-book?
i can't figure out if it's just the classes or the e-book that frank didn't come through on?!? if there's no book either...well then. i rest my case.

on the flip side though...this could be the best thing that happened for all of those that were looking to frank for a quick ticket into the astral. the lord works in mysterious ways and all that.

of course if he's really sick...then i'm the b1tch! but i'm getting used to playing that role here!  

love to all soul
_____________________________
benky: put away that cough syrup!
your team needs you.

we have always seen through very different eyes on this subject of good & evil. this will, under such harsh light sound very belligerent of me, and just plain strange, but you and your two hags, and nay and her little incubus affair  isn't even a drop in my bucket. if i were to estimate the number of molestations by demons, incubus, and dark knights...it would be in the neighborhood of 8,000. and that's leaving out the "lighter" beings & aliens

i'm not trying to one up y'all, but the numbers speak for themselves. i'm just claiming to understand...deeply!

you might not wish to hear it from Ybom...but you will be hearing more of it from me...as far as integration is concerned. your power does not come from one side only. there is no depth of field when seeing through only one eye. you and i are going to work on "balance". whether you like it or not!
gonna move that inner conflict out, buy learning to embrace the other half of yourself. this needs to be done to come into a fuller, more complete function. holy does not mean absolute resistance...it means WHOLE-y!!!

but i'll get back to you on that!
soul

an intelligent girl "with money" that can AP!
(unfortunately that's not me

I am saying this because I am telling everyone right now that if you focus on "being scammed", "conned" or "misled" etc., that will become the reality and it will not be Frank's fault.

   

& TOMBO: KISSES!!!

yeah...a lot of in my face stuff as well. doesn't bother me either...was just noting an increase. i sometimes think of all the people that are so quick to call "crazy"...or the people that somehow (and i don't how they do it) believe in angels, but not demons...or believe that angels are all honest and caring and full of glittery love. Ha!!! the more and more i quiet the banter around me and listen...the more everything to points to the veil being lifted.

i just want to see the look on the "others" faces when the sh*t starts coming out of the woodwork. i really look forward to that. (i know)...

soul

you know i could feel bad about lowering myself to some wretched level, but since we all agreed to do this before hand...i guess i don't have to bother with the guilt!

nice equation i have tried many times to get my mind around. still i'm not too into belief systems that take away ALL accountability.

we must have had the same therapist

brother....where i have been?!?
i thought this thread had died with nay's enthusiasm (once again)...
guess everyone must have gotten a good nights sleep!?!

i enjoyed the first few posts of james & noy...i would have liked to have skipped the rest, and say that, "you are both full of truth on your own paths." but...
now i have to factor in things that aren't as important...like the view points of those that are bringing nothing to the table (again), but feeling more then justified to throw their weight around. both james, and noy, and myself included are all tossing around these concepts, and we may not agree, or be looking from the exact same view point at any given moment...but we feel/believe in what we are doing/creating, etc...so there is no need to stop that process and bother defending ones self. (save me on occassion out of insanity) bcuz we see with wider eyes. where is no 'absolute' wrong (maybe retarded, but oath...you need to look at your new friend...in order to get a better idea of what that function of regression is really about.)

i'm disappointed as well, but that's nothing new. taking something that was actually going somewhere "useful" and TRUMPING it out of existence.
thank god the WORK actually continues outside of this place. if this were the "collective" we'd all be screwed. maybe that's the glitch in the matrix? maybe somewhere in the etheric there is a nay that amuses herself with stepping in the way?!? powerful place isn't it?!? i will be first to agree with the idea that nothing exists that isn't useful in some manner. i'll also agree that certain mentalities & functions can become extinct overnight.
if you aren't evolving...this is the risk you take.

ya think all the children here would be tired of playing monkey in the middle. and note...it's always nice to "ask" the other person if they're up for playing before you start slamming them around.

oath: you were warned about the rip tide here. be thoughtful, and be open. be pure of heart, and intelligent. there are things at work here that reverse your energies. be vigilant. you are not above this...it works individually for each person involved. i trust that you will rise above!

Yeah, Node you and Souljah.,aka..muse, Dk..etc..You two do seem to take things on the personal side don't cha? Now Node, if I could just pin-point who else you are playing.

I find it interesting that you use the word "playing". That very much explains your behaviour. Some of us here aren't  f**king around just for the fun of it. and what is this thing you have with DK??? Do you think everyone is darknight??? My god woman...time to check yourself. You're acting scary. All the people who don't buy what your pushing are suddenly part of some grand conspiracy to pull one over one you??? One day you're gonna wake up and that you against the world thing...is gonna be "You against Dark Knight"! Feeling guilty perhaps about past events?!? Yes DK can be a little hard to digest sometimes 'full strength'...but you need to let it go!

and...nodes is nodes wherever you go, and that was a real far jump of your intelligence to figure out that soujah333 is also muse333, and for the record she's also kmberly333...just to save you some grey matter...but guessing from some early digs...you've already slithered through the site.

Another thought.... if you two dislike this forum so much, why do you frequent it so much?? Another Einstein question...any ideas, anyone? I bet OATH could answer it, judging by his last post. Wink

it's a love hate thing baby. kind of like you and your attitude. i could say the same thing...if it's not accomplishing anything productive...why not let it go? oh that's right...it is productive for you. same here. there's things i like about AP and it's why i come back. like james' insight, and...um...knight light, and froglet...and BNOG, and SOM, and myst59, and a whole bunch of folk. i never said i didn't like the forum.

who's taking things personally now??? nay you are not the forum!

soul

i think that link you gave BNOG...says it all.

Benky...been awhile since i've had the pleasure!

man...someones a little cranky. not projecting lately?
anyway...totally missed my point. the fact that c2c "is" a marketing venue, and #1 one on the list for metaphysical, mystic, occult, and paranormal pursuits is exactly why i used it as an example!?! duh-ha...contrary to whatever it is you believe...i do know exactly what "i'm" talking about. on top of that it's free!!! thing is...you don't get on the show with smoke & mirrors & who would honestly want to subject themselves to those kinds of numbers (being the largest talk show audience in the world)...and not really be ready to run the gauntlet?!? couldn't be a printing issue where too many orders were feared...so what gives.

yeah i've got a bit of a problem with people that have roughly as much experience in this field as i do, and work to sell it so hard... as has been mentioned promising unlimited wealth, happiness & success. talking the talk is easy, you should know that. anyway...we're obviously very different bcuz i know for a fact that you don't get to the astral by reading books. same as you don't get to hawaii by surfing travel agent sites...but stranger things have been known to happen.

i don't have anything against frank or adrian. why should i?!?
but when someone starts saying they're the leading expert in the world?!? well...it's easy to fall off that kind of pedestal. i mentioned robert bcuz he takes a totally different approach to his books, his business, etc. he's building a reputation, which i believe is of utmost importance.
but i don't have to tell you that.

If your definition of expertise is an appearance on a talk show(which is purely for advertising purposes in the first place, just listen to how much they want to sell you next time you listen to C2C!) then you are ignorant. RB wants to sell you his books and keep you entertained with silly beliefs. We're just interested in learning, without fighting demons or having scary experiences or any of that stupid bull****. Some people like that, though. Its all preference.

i'm just including the above just for fun.
1) i don't own any of robert's books. (i don't own any books on APing. I don't have to.)  2) stupid bull***t is relative. and 3) didn't your mother ever teach you about running around with scissors?!?
it's dangerous...as is jumping to conclusions. no wait...that's just irritating.

soul

well that's just sick!

very diplomatic of you by the way, and that counts for a lot in my book (of shadows). i guess that's all i'm ever looking for...the effort (you know)?!? something that comes across on the page...like someone took "the time" to really weigh everything out; and the intelligence in it...it's obvious when it's there, and when it's not. sure...i guess some people don't have the time or the energy, but then why bother posting. that's what kind of gets under my skin, or kindles my fire sort-a-speak.

the only thing i really want to reply to is

I think you keep this section of the forum lively but also rather polarized. Dont get me wrong, I respect your advice and viewpoints just as much as anyone else here. No offense but you are definitely one of the more extreme neg/dark astral elements posters here and naturally anyone who is against that extreme will target you just by default.

if there's one thing i can't stand (besides being shallow) it's reiteration. you have people giving the fluffy bunny advice, and others giving lists of protective devices, herbs, and rituals (all of which can be found in a host of other places...if one is really "interested" in gaining knowledge, and you have the "support" noobs that just want to be helpful & understanding, and some folks that are trapped in the victim stance...where it's all so tragic and meaningless, and the rebels that want to rage against the negativity & drive it back from whence it came, and there's me?!?

been at it a long time, tons of different perspectives from tons of different levels, very open-minded, creative, empathetic, and of course jaded...so, what do i bring to the table that's unique??? that isn't being covered in the rest of the convo? that's all it ever is. i have no agenda. i'm not sitting at home thinking..."i'm going to make this as twisted & difficult as possible".

why on earth would i want to do that?
i'm really not the polar opposite to anything. it just may be coming across that way bcuz i don't have the time to play the parrot, and repeat what's already been offered, and i refuse to sugar coat what i know to be true, just so it's easier to swallow. i do go against the status quo though.
can't apologize for that.

soul

you know...people will watch the news, but it doesn't stop them from walking outside into that mess. (well...some people, but that's another topic). we've all heard horror stories about auto accidents...in fact that tactic of pushing the horror so the responsibility of "driving a weapon" is taken SERIOUSLY...is actually employed a lot, esp. to younger kids in high school. doesn't stop people from driving, or worse...mindlessly rolling around in a daze talking on their cell phones, blaring the beats, and wolfing down big mac's. and who are you gonna blame when you crash 'n' burn? the driver's ed teacher for saying, "i told you so"
to me that's just plain weirdness.

don't blame that on me!

sorry 'bout being such a beeyotch in my other post, but you have to understand how long i've been at it. astral projection that is, not only attacks. as long as people are going to see emily rose, watching horror-fiction, and the sci-fi channel, and reading stephen king...i refuse to take the blame for generating the dark stuff. i know that's not exactly what was being said, but either i'm getting full credit or i'm not?!? personally i don't want it, but to say i'm part of the problem...is part of the problem. if that makes any sense.

anyway
333

For unknown reason...I can never argue with you Kazbadan!
I forfeit!  
You're just too damn cute for words!!!

so...let me get this straight.
i'm not free to post my experiences here, bcuz they aren't the norm???
awfully small world to insist on. just bcuz they don't fall within the lines of (in my opinion) "noobish understanding"...anyone out there with 21 years of experience in the astral...i'm more than willing to have a debate with.
there is no one here for me to seek advice from...as in "someone with MORE years of experience than me, whom i consider wise". so i don't ask questions, and i post what feels relevant, and i don't see why that draws so much attention.

i've had all sorts of experiences. if people want to focus on a few of the horrid ones...whatever. that's there business. if someone holds themselves back bcuz they're afraid...that's also their business. i don't come her pleading for help and answers. never have, and never will.

i could understand if i just went on and on about how terrible everything was for me, begging and pleading for help and support, and wanting to complain more than fix...but that isn't me, and i don't appreciate being treated like it is. nothing flows here...nothing swirls and interacts and reaches a new understanding. it's all about choosing sides and being right.
when it's all added up that's a demonstration of the maturity level here.

maybe i don't belong, but i really don't see where i've ever done any harm to anyone by sharing something that i have a lot of information on.

unless of course dear knightlight you're accusing me, as nay did...and saying that my mention about a few choice creatures here and there was actually the cause of "your" problems in the astral???

i probably wouldn't even notice you were missing. sorry, but that's the truth.

yeah...but having a tough shell is much easier to justify...then just being attention starved!!! why would you want to get in the middle of this discussion anyway? if you don't have anything to offer (like a story, experience or opinion)...move along...nothing to see here!

just your regular nay & soul cha-cha.

and p.s.

what did you really learn?!? more then you thought you would???

ah...nay, again..&..again...& again...what i'm suppose to say?!?
i gotta laugh...you're one crazy chick & i mean that from the bottom of my heart! all the therapy in the world, and i don't think you're ever going to admit that you have no idea what you're talking about.

first i was serious about the negativity that YOU'RE attracting. go ahead and keep right on laughing...that's fine, that has nothing to do with me. i just thought i'd bring it round past your blinders, so you could use a little hindsight and look at it. fine...you don't want to...that's okay.

my little tiff with the chop-saw guy is an excellent example of your narrow mindedness (1) and your ego (2). i didn't say that it was YOU. i was just asking to see if any of it was familiar, bcuz it was so similar in nature. instead of replying and saying "no that wasn't me"...you (ah...LOL) you actually tell me that i DIDN'T experience what i experienced?!? that's crazy talk. and...i wasn't aware of the FACT ( gotta love this part) that i am the center force in all demonic attacks & possessions. WOW!!!
makes me want to rethink my career!
     that gets three rolly-eyes!!!

You attack because something rings true and you get all defensive.

if you think my original post was an attack?!? you really don't know me.

you want psychic...i'll give you psychic, and then you can lock this down or delete it, or ignore me or attack...or whatever it is you like to do...just so long as you don't have to actually take anything into consideration.

you are a tough nut. hard-thick shell. good for protection, but how it works is through denial & ignorance. just bcuz you refuse to let anything in...doesn't mean it doesn't exist. (esp. for other people)

(you're not starving are you? but there are people in africa who are, and i'm sure you can manage to get your mind around that concept).

you have become the thing that you dreaded as a child...the person that callously says "it's not true"! when all  people really want is someone to believe in them. (i'm not speaking of me of course. why would i need you to validate something you don't even know exists)...but i think that's what a lot of noobs come here seeking, and bcuz nobody believed you as a child...you're going to give them the same. all those terrible, evil, dark & nasty things that happened to you in the past....there really isn't anyone to validate that for "real". it's just your word & those who rally round & trust in you & love you now.

i don't think you should change one single i-oda. you can't afford to.
keep on keepin' on girl. luckily life is short.
love soul

and p.s. dear oath...good question! why i always go it alone?!? hmmm.

i'm the one that brought up franks website...so you can direct the criticism at me. as for both books & the marketing tactics...i did bring it up in the past, and no one wanted to hear anything i had to say.

dear magic: you have an opinion, i have an opinion, etc. point is...there is something to a "hard-sell". there's a reason for it and believe it or not it has absolutely nothing to do with spirituality...it's all about money. go ahead and argue that if you want, but what is being touched on here (where the thread has turned) is in people drawing on their intuition. it's not genuine that's all, and that's all that people are saying. they are actually giving "useful" advice that would help...if certain people involved weren't so darn hard-headed.
that junk doesn't sell anymore. it does, but it doesn't. it's not substantial. it's fly-by-night...it's get some cash from as many desperate/naive people as possible, and get out quick.

if adrian & frank are such "experts" on the subject of astral projection, why haven't i heard them on coast to coast??? that's where i heard robert, and that's how i ended up here, and interviews like that are a perfect example of real, productive marketing. not a sales "pitch". i'm tired of the come back...."i have proof. i have letters. my way is the only way".

i offered several ideas on how to substantiate the book...like having a monthly draw to give away a free copy, or a membership area that could be accessed on a dime for members, or breaking down the book into smaller portions that could be purchased in parts. i think a lot of people here came up with the same & similar ideas....a way of getting the book circulating here at the forum and members reviewing it. that's what people do when they are in it for the long, legitimate haul. anyway...this is pointless. it was all totally thrown back...like those of us who wanted to help were stupid.

and tombo: no offense but i don't see what was cleared up?!? and as far dismissing constructive criticism...i think that's what he did. again.
you are right about getting things off your chest. which personally is what i'm doing..but for anyone that is looking for validation or having things "sorted out"...i don't think that's going to happen.

does seem very strange that someone would invest so much time here, and not juice it for what it was worth (if they were a con-artist). that's the only thing that makes me believe that frank is genuinely ill. still...like everyone has said 1 post from a relative or friend, or one email to 1 person that signed up (that could be forwarded). that would be the respectable thing to do. i'm sure one of you involved will let the rest of us know if that happens.

all this energy & speculation floating around isn't healthy
peace
soul

21 years no rest!!!

a lot of babies for me lately. trying to figure that out?!? starving, mutant babies trying to burrow into my flesh, and they're so angry and desperate, and i try so hard to comfort them, and then there are more each time. astrally i think i'm the matron saint of mutilated infants! rough job, but i don't see where anyone else would be better suited then I. i can look past the evil into the little dark hearts of the creepiest creatures. as NOY mentioned...at the end of the day...they're all gods creatures!!!

also been noticing a ton of shifty, flash-by-my-sight stuff...the last few weeks. tons! barely catching the tail end of little glowing bodies, dark little tails and whisps of strong black energy. very interesting. moving in and taking barrings i assume! all you people that don't buy into any of this, think it's a twisted joke, think it's all in our heads, have never been descended upon in the astral, and haven't seen this stuff...man are y'all in for the trip of a lifetime!!!

when the veil is finally lifted. then we can see who's patronizing who!??!
naw we aren't that heartless. we'll be there to do battle as usual.

Nodes! How come you haven't honored us with your presence over @ Mystic Mysfits?!? I'm insulted!

Love Soul

for the "alleged" naysayer,

Well...all I can say it's about time you opened up and offered something substantial. That was most excellent...if I do say so myself. Gives so much more to discuss than some yellow ball rolling on the floor, clutching it's stomach!
It was deep. It was useful. It was....OMG...dark!

You know a lot of the time I spend here is with kit-gloves on. I'm always holding back to avoided being descended on by the "Moderators of Light". (I won't say Love, 'cuz y'all can be a little too harsh & ego-driven for that). but...
there's something that I need to get off my chest as well. Act the informant for whatever reason. Are you aware that there are a good number of people that leave this PSD area with contempt?!? Not me...I'm too busy, and really couldn't care less, but what do you feel is manifested by a bunch of people that have only one thought in their mind...being, "I hope Nay comes under full blown demonic attack so she can FINALLY relate/I hope that ----- gets hers"!?! I know you'll laugh it off, but I wouldn't want that energy coming at me, or coming "back at me" (compounded), whichever.

I don't think it's your perspective. Everyone is allowed to think however they chose, but it's in how the situations are handled that really does come across like you're mocking everyone and tagging them as "dysfunctional". who are you to make such a judgment, is my question, esp. when you push that you're coming from such a positive space?!? And what does it accomplish here in this forum...is another question?!?

Interesting your situation in your garage & house and how it corresponds to something I just experienced myself (a few days back)...another rescue if you will. In your house is your staircase/banister all wood (med/drk...not light)?!? and is the hallway at the top of the stairs very narrow? with a closet right near the top of the stairs? do the stairs ascend and turn right? Just curious bcuz I had this highly strange projection. I was in a garage as well. Same exact thing with the body parts and animals...and the guy, but I got the feeling more that he was some twisted freak...more then a scientist. He had a red circle saw that he had rigged up and taken the cover off of, so it was just the blade (exposed). He was big too. maybe 6 ft/300 lbs. and something wrong with his face...badly scared. I was studying him. He seemed not to care that I was there. Suddenly I was sucked into the main part of the house. It was a regularly decorated house...not abandon, or haunted or anything...but very, very dark. It got darker as I went up the stairs. Not sure, but as if I was being drawn up there for some reason. At the top of the stairs there was a woman. Looked to be in her late 60's. She felt disturbed...like she was trapped in the house. So I started to get to work on releasing her. She became surrounded by white light, and a tunnel of light appeared above her, but she was refusing to ascend. I kept trying to convince here that she wasn't needed there anymore. that she was free to leave. then this twisted smile appeared on her face, and a super cold chill hit me. that guy was behind me with the saw. and the woman (who i felt was possibly his mother) was laughing. it had been a ploy. except the guy didn't come at "me". suddenly there was another woman in the hallway, i hadn't noticed before. light brown hair (i think) she flew past me so fast i didn't catch a good look. He grabbed her and was attempting to cut her up...so i stepped in to stop it. and poof the woman vanished, and he started cutting me up instead. the whole thing went on for a long while...not sure of who had the upper hand at some points. strange too there were flashes that seemed to be premonitions. snap-shots of different points in the future where this guy was still at work terrorizing this woman. one where he had cut her entire scalp off and had her chained up and leading her around like a dog. another where she was in a cage and he was feeding her like a pet, etc. I wanted to make sure this guy was destroyed for good and i spent a real long time in battle with him, weakening him. in the end i just couldn't stay in long enough to get the end result. i did manage to do a lot of harm! but he was just so damn tenacious. still out there i guess...carving up astral bodies i suppose?!?

don't know why i wrote all that.
usually dont' bother getting into detail much.
was just so strange that this "light" entity of this older woman would bother tricking me like that?!? interesting from my perspective.

there's more to say in regards to your post and your feeling towards the "alleged" people under attack...but i've said way more then enough for now!!!

soul

First off...where have I been that I missed all this?!?
Secondly...I am personally sending the healing energy along to Frank, whether for his illness or for the alleged scam...he'll need it either way.
I didn't sign up for any class, so I'm not missing any money...so my input here is not malicious but...

I have to include this, bcuz the hype Frank generated around himself always left a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not saying he's a con-artist, but his website definitely makes him sound like one (imho)

I eventually created a powerful approach that did (finally!) enable me to unlock all the secrets I could ever wish for, and many more besides... a LOT more.

FACT: Following my approach, enables you to prove to yourself that physical reality is not something you are at the mercy of. You progressively come to realize that the elements that serve to make up your physical reality are, in fact, elements that you create. Once you are able to make that realization, your physical reality progressively comes under your control. In other words, YOU begin to actually control the events that take place in your life, rather than have these events control you!

He talks about creating wealth, and healing illness, and I read things about him being very ill and not having a computer and it makes me wonder...that's all...just wonder.

I'd say we all send Frank a whole lot of love for whatever he's going through, and for those that have (up to this point) lost their hard earned money...think of it as an expensive lesson in life. afterall from the above...you manifested exactly what you needed. of course that's relative

soul

is that a validation or were you discrediting?!?
E for effort though
soul

froglet,

yes...you made a very interesting & subtle point. i feel that most people (the conditioning is (as a form of distraction from our natural power)) function merely for the satisfaction & approval of others. it is a very difficult habit to break away from, let alone be aware of. when in comes into view, it can the shake the foundation pretty seriously, and a lot of doubt will come into play. i believe as "back or sub-coding" to suck one back into the "mindless" void.

i'll put myself out on a thin limb and say that probably 95% of the s--t people do everyday is to impress someone else. and if we're going to start anywhere...we should definitely start with that, but i can assure you from experience...that's not a well-received subject!

love soul