Messages

This question isn't so easy to answer unless someone has had a very specific encounter with what you mention. The closest I come to this is an experience I had wherein I was caught between what looked like two giant suns (fierce explosions all around me to boot). The imagery was absolutely fantastic. My body, when I examined it, seemed to have a plastic-like covering which was shining as it reflected all the light. Again, this isn't reliable information for you to take into consideration as it was most unlikely to be the "RTZ". But this sheathe which seemed to appear over me; I interpreted it as being the equivalent of some sort of protective suit.

People tend to believe that all thought is energy and that at some point we might find a way of measuring it reliably. I tend to believe that pure consciousness goes beyond anything energetic and beyond even the concept of having a "state". I don't believe that, at this moment in time, we are capable of comprehending even the questions involved with pure consciousness. So, in regards to how the energy body reacts with other energy "sources", I'm not sure. While it might have a reaction I don't believe that any danger is involved. Again, this is only because I haven't had an opportunity to experience it.

I'm interested in what it is other people have to say regarding this.

I relate to your experience with the "grenades going off" underneath your bed. I'd have described it more like the rumbling of a jet engine right next to me though : p

If you plan on following it up, good luck with your practice.

Edit: Thinking back on it, I seem to remember that while floating between these two giant entities that I was somewhat immobilized. Whether this was due to conflicting "magnetic fields" or my own neglect in trying to move (I was kind of in awe at the time [lol]) I don't know.

It seems plausible : )

There have been rl murders over such things after all. At the end of the day it's just another reality, how immersive it is depends on one's emotional investment.

Yes, it's important to be able to distinguish between recreation and escapism but people have to feel the difference for themselves, as you say. I have been a great fan of MMORPGs in my time, my experience ranging from Ultima Online to WoW ; ). You can certainly learn a thing or two about people whilst playing these kinds of games. The motivations are different, of course, but the emotional investment some people put into their virtual embodiment(s) is incredible. There are plenty of things people can get away with while playing games and in most cases it really is good fun. There're times however when you find yourself forced to come to terms with what you want out of it and that's why WoW was probably the last MMO I'll ever play. That particular market has grown too quickly and is now beyond any real means of moderation. Not to sound like an old fart, there are just far too many immature children playing them. 

Eve-online, now that's one hell of a game because its learning curve keeps the riff raff away (must resist the temptation to go back).

Actually, if it were to happen all at once you would most probably enter into a heightened state of psychosis. There's not much else to be said other than please keep in mind that you have some reading to do if you're truly serious about this.

I don't know who gave you a -1 Karma but I will applaud you for your sheer enthusiasm. ; )

I might go on a journy around the universe to help me relax more.

There are better ways to relax. Take it slow, step by step, otherwise you will not be able to keep your pace and could end up losing all motivation. Don't allow yourself to get upset over it.

Take the time to read the material made available to you on the different boards otherwise you will be on a wild goose chase and any energy you invest could end up being wasted.

If you continue to believe that you have been "cursed" then you are only setting yourself up for more dissapointments my friend. Consider that "like attracts like" and that what you think can manifest itself in many different ways. What happened is done and only the future lies ahead.

Justification isn't needed as far as you're concerned but you find yourself looking for it. You are attempting to reason why it is that you think the way you do and so you look to your previous experiences. You sound somewhat divided at this moment in time. You have now come to the stage where you have a desire to experience something which goes beyond your current perception of reality but at the same time find yourself firmly anchored in a physical expression which you, by your own reasoning, have turned into a prison.

One part of you says "there is something better" and the other says "but this is my life, how it is and how it will be". You're in the midst of a healing process and I encourage you to follow it through. You have a remarkable opportunity for growth which, if you embrace, will only lead you to better things. You have made the choice to move past it but are still in the process.

Don't victimize yourself in the same way you believe others may have wronged you. You have the wisdom to create something more appropriate than self pity.

I was once a very religious Christian but things have changed. Because of my past some of the experiences I get may be in a biblical context and, for better or worst, it's something I relate to quite well. I acknowledge people like Yeshua/Jesus for my own reasons alone and wouldn't even consider forcing them upon you. Everyone has their own reality, something you will hear a lot on these boards is that...

"reality is subjective"

Not everyone agrees with this statement however so, again, you need to make up your own mind. When you have your first fully immersive OOBE it will feel more real than anything you have ever experienced before. Now, take into account that just about anything can happen and suddenly you are in a VERY strange place. All sorts of thought forms (images/representational entities in your mind) start being given substance and seem many times more potent. They can appear right in front of you and suddenly what you were thinking about and considering might be the truth is standing in front of you, larger than life so to speak. It tends to have an affect on people and me saying this can seem demeaning to them.

If you want, message me and I will attempt to give you some material I find interesting, be warned however that much of it comes from channells and so, depending on your level of acceptance, you might not take a shine to them. The best advice I can give you is not to allow yourself to be motivated by fear when it comes to anything spiritual.

When people first start out they tend to get frustrated, it's nothing new here and many of us have been through it (and continue to go through it in many cases). For some it's natural and for others it takes some time to progress. My first experience was spontaneous but I was fully conscious during the process, even so I was scared half to death. Don't let your self doubt sabotage your efforts. You have a good intent, to expand your awareness. Keep that in mind, perhaps give a thought to the unseen helpers you may have and ask for assistance.

There's no reason why you can't do it. Read the forums for as long as it pleases you. If you find yourself getting too attached, perhaps leave it a while and come back later as you may not have given yourself time to process the implications of what's happening as a result of your focussed intent.

You need to make up your own mind regarding your personal beliefs. Many people will tell you things and insist that they are facts. Being impressionable, in this case, is both a blessing and a curse. Experience will see you through it.

All I'm saying is that communicating with you is an extremely draining experience. That is why I have no desire to speak to you in the same way you speak with me. Let me be honest about my feelings Leo. I hate playing the psychologist because in my endeavor to understand you it means I have to keep comparing my thoughts with your own. Because I have to keep doing this my mind becomes clouded with all sorts of doubts and a conflict erupts. Suddenly I am actually affected by what it is you are saying. You are forcing me to see myself as the worthless maggot you might perceive me as being. It does no good for my self-esteem Leo, it hurts like hell. My troubled past doesn't help with this process and the fact that I am highly impressionable means I feel as though I'm in a mental war zone whenever you speak to me directly.

I have to keep telling myself that your intent is to be helpful but that you are not yet aware of how offensive you are in your form of expression. Damnit Leo, you're better than this. I don't understand why with you it's always...

"make them feel threatened or it's me who will be on the losing side"

Why do I have to compare myself to what you perceive as being the lowest end of the spectrum in order to understand what it is you are saying?

Hullo : )

Regarding being attacked and the concept of demons, there are many different opinions as to how they work and what it actually means. There're all sorts of programs you may find helpful, BW generator is one of them but everyone has their own experiences. All you need to know is that at this moment in time you have everything you need.

The idea is that it's a natural process and that it's something you do every night but will probably not be aware of due to the mechanisms involved. The best advice I can give you is don't read the horror stories people come up with here as they will only give you ideas and may cause you to manifest something derived from them. As difficult as it may be, or totally absurd, if you do ever manage to "get out", stay positive and you will have a wonderful time. These boards have plenty of reading for you (check the different forums) but keep in mind that it's mostly other people's experiences. What works for them may not work for you. Ultimately, if you want to do it consciously, you need to find your own reasoning/methods.

Good "luck"  ; )

Edit: In response to your request, I have nothing better to do so I'll keep you in mind. I don't promise anything but should it happen, one of us may take notice. The things you're afraid of don't apply to the scenario in question though so don't worry about that.

Leo, we ought to put this in context.

The aim of your original post was to instill a degree of shame in people based on what you perceive to be the "real goal" in pursuing an OOBE. Leo, you enjoy placing people in categories, something which is clearly evident and lacks any real room for consideration of an individual's thought process, judgemental or not. You keep mentioning "political correctness" when all I am attempting to be is rational. Some of your posts have a tendency to scare people away as the emotion you invest in your arguments is just too much to bear in many cases.

You are rational Leo, but you come over as being overly negative in many instances. Combine that with what you believe to be the truth and it makes conversation a slightly awkward affair. Many people don't take the time to address it directly and all I am doing is speaking on their behalf (something which I understood from the start to be challenging).

I have great respect for what you believe in but I notice from your replies that you have none for what it is that I or many others believe. This is because you feel as though you are justified in what you are doing, no not because you are trying to annoy anyone (I understand this). Your intent is to be informative.

You would provoke a different response from many people if you would consider adopting a less intimidating stance in your replies. As it is now, Leo, you tend to leave little room for discussion and that is why I have presented no argument against what it is you originally stated. I am simply exposing your state of mind in the hope that you may be persuaded to be a little more accommodating towards other peoples opinions. I am grateful for your opinion Leo, it might help to be more encouraging when dicussing those of other peoples too.

There's no need for all this excessive force. We are here to share ideas and beliefs (and to see them as such, "ideas" and "beliefs").

God bless.

Edit: Some of the things you say are so profound, they're fantastic notions. Just go easy on those of us who aren't as certain of what you believe to be the truth : )

Hmm?

I can see that there're some points of contention here (regarding exact figures) but they're irrelivant. The reason I stated that information was in order to put things into perspective regarding the Sun's range of influence and what we don't know regarding the processing of Earth's magnetic field (from the moment it began to the time it could theoretically end).

It's a small point I made in the first stages of this thread but it seems disagreable to some of you which is fair enough.

I don't see why it should be taken out of context like this. All I'm referencing here is the misconception that current science is able to understand the entire working(s) of our Solar system.

So I wonder now, if your physical body was in pain for whatever reason, is it possible to project and avoid feeling the pain?  If that makes any sense. lol 

Hehe

Some people would say that the idea of "pain" is associated with having a physical body and that by experiencing it, you are only focussing harder on staying/experiencing your vessel.

I've read channels however, believe them or not, which state that upon tremendous suffering our spirits make a decision along the lines of "enough is enough" and so we exit. I suppose it's different for everyone else, there might never be a model for it.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I believe the Earth doesn't generate a magnetic field of it's own or that it isn't in conflict with Solar Wind. I'm just saying that it's hard to fully understand the process as everything we can study up close has come into contact with the Sun's magnetic field at one time or another. So despite what you may believe currently, there's no way to tell for sure.

The Sun's dipolar field is about as strong as a refrigerator magnet, or 50 gauss. Earth's magnetic field is supposedly 100 times weaker. That tends to imply that the Sun would have an affect on the behaviour of the Earth's field as they're constantly interacting with one another in ways we don't fully understand. The Sun's magnetic field/IMF (interplanetary magnetic field) ,while weaker over distance, is huge (hence the term interplanetary). While the IMF is kept out of most of our magnetosphere the interaction of the two plays a major role in the flow of energy from the solar wind to the Earth's environment. I'm not a scientist but I know that it's possible to magnetize some materials with nothing but another magnet (Sun -> Earth maybe). I'm just saying that the condition of the Sun's field may affect the Earth's in more ways than simply contributing to the shape of it's magnetosphere and generating the aurora borealis.

To quote an excerpt from this article on the Nasa website...

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/themis/auroras/sun_earth_connect.html

Sometimes the magnetosphere stores more energy than it can release in a slow manner and something inside the magnetotail "breaks" and waves and currents are generated that trigger the beautiful and mysterious dancing aurora that we've been talking about on these THEMIS science pages. THEMIS will solve the long standing mystery as to what triggers this energy release in the magnetotail that leads to an auroral substorm.

So clearly it has an affect of some sort. Solar wind is a state of matter called plasma (which is magnetically charged) and carries the magnetic field of the sun. It's not just pure magnetics but other variables too which are involved in this case. I'm just saying that there's a lot we don't know regarding the operation of the Earth's magnetic field and that there wasn't enough acknowledgement of all the different variables involved with it during the documentary.

Edit: Sorry if I still don't understand what you are saying. I'm not trying to refute anyone, I'm just saying that there's a lot we don't know yet.

Thank you for the insight : ) Will do.

I do believe the magnet resonance comes from the massive iron core the earth contains.  It blocks solar radiation.

I think you misunderstand me.

It does, from what we can see of it anyway. They never addressed the magnetic field of the sun though. The Sun's field extends beyond even Pluto and that's probably why it's "easy to miss" when you're trying to understand everything from within its influence. So we are a field within a field and when magnetics is involved it begs all sorts of questions regarding how they interact.

Haha

Yes, it can be dangerous in the sense that it could have an adverse psychological affect on you.

That's as far as it goes in my experience. Psychosis is my friend : p

Can you physically hurt yourself?

You would have to try very hard to do that. But if you want to cultivate this fancy into a deliberate focus I'm sure that given enough time and years of practice you could learn to hurt yourself physically. : p

Just got through watching it, very informative. I loved being shown how pottery and molten rock (once cooled) can hold so much information regarding the situation of Earth's magnetic field throughout history.

They weren't so big on dates I noticed, they preferred to talk about large chunks of time as that was about as accurate as the measurements could get.

2012?

Maybe!

Edit:

One thing that bothered me was how little attention they gave the Sun. The field of the sun is huge and supposedly surrounds the earth. We know that the presence of the Sun has an affect on the base conditions of Earth (durrr), just not how much the Sun's field contributes to it. Heck, the Sun might even be what magnetized the core to begin with (or not).

There were quite a few variables left out. Then again I might have the wrong idea about it. It just seemed odd to treat it as a matter of little importance.

Eeee :p

I just found a torrent for this, I'm going to watch it asap.

*Excitement*

Not everyone sees the "silver cord", it might not even exist the way you think about it. Some people would also have you scared to death at the idea.

So your question is,

"can we consciously commit suicide while out of body".

It's a fascinating idea to say the least and I don't want to treat it as taboo either. Going from my experiences I'd say no. I've suffered from tremendous bouts of depression in my time and while OOB I've actually wished to be "taken away forever" but it's never what it seems. I certainly get an interesting experience but I don't believe that our subconscious fully understands the concept of death, insofar as being able to relate it to our physical body at least. I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert with the mechanics involved but the moment I start trying to focus on my physical body the projection ends. Maybe it's my concentration failing, I don't really know. Perhaps our guides have specific instructions to follow regarding these situations, who knows?

Anyway, the idea of death involves having/losing a physical body. I tend to believe this is then followed by some sort of transition into a new zone/awareness. Perhaps the transition is a two way process. Perhaps there has to be something on the "other side" working in synchronization with the events on "this side" just to ensure everything is in harmony (the idea of the higher self). Who knows?

Perhaps there are certain circumstances in which it is possible?

I wonder what other peoples experiences are?

Has anyone here died while projecting yet? 

I have no idea what I am doing in this thread. I think I might be lost or something. Well, seeing as I'm here I'd like to ask what it was you were resonating so strongly with to experience your perception of "hell" first-hand?

I believe you have the wrong idea about this anyway. To be able to do it at will is an incredible thing. For many of us they happen spontaneously and, using the information acquired here, we try to make the most of them. Conscious exits are uncommon but we don't try to get hung up over it as to do so would create a lot of resentment. At least that's how it is with me.

Though I would be interested in what it is some other people have to say. : )#

Edit: Intent seems to play a big part for me, followed simply by allowing the process to unfold itself.

Leo, you seem as though you're the staunchly religious type and so that means you tend to respond in your own subjective context as, indeed, you too live on your own island. Now, I like the emphasis on co-creation/community spirit but you should realise it is entirely possible to give your power away to other people, unintentionally, and never realise how draining it can be due to getting lost in your own subjective justification of what is appropriate.

As for what is "barbaric" and what is "civilized", these concepts are far too vague. They're all-encompassing and so you find yourself constantly forced to place the people you meet into one of those two categories. This explains, for instance, Leo, why you have a tendancy to respond negatively to posts, you believe that anyone who does not agree with you is uncivilized. From the previous threads you've started, in some of which I have participated, I can see this to be the case. The fact that your karma rating plumetted to -6 would seem to support this idea but is by no means to be considered as perfect proof.

For instance, this time your reply started with...

Your interpretation reminds me to Lucifer's opinion in Milton's Paradise Lost, that Lucifer would rather Reign in Hell than Serve in Heaven.

This is an awkward way, at best, to relate to someone. Not only is it out of context but you are making an attempt to demonize who you are talking to. To make matters worst, you also make every attempt at seeming balanced in your argument(s) when your true intention is painfully obvious (despite how you might try to justify it). Reality is made subjective by what we believe Leo and you are living proof of it.

Edit: Please stop picking on people.

There is no proof... Ethics are a human concept, and karma is often misunderstood as the balance between good and evil... I have yet to see any evidence that there exist limits beyond those that are self-imposed...

For better or worst I too believe this. One thing I am certain of though is that we perform better when we're content with our surroundings. If we can move into a place of love and acceptance then I believe that there's nothing we can't do. Similarly, if hate is the name of the game then there are places for those people too, it's just that they won't find much reliable support as for them it's all about conflict. Awareness is a key issue in all of this but so is co-creation and therefore integrity. In the future it may be all about building bonds of trust and little else.

I relate to seeing symbols on a black background. In my case they were all systematically arranged as though they were spelling something out. The ones which caught my attention were animated and the one which I took special interest in happened to look like a spinning daisy.

I'd like to discuss this some more with you.