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Depends on how you define "judging" someone. I always try and (fairly) work people around me out, and to do this it is often useful to fit certain personality types/flaws/irregularities/etc into categories - eg I see person a. acting in a similar way to person b., I know why person b. acts like that so perhaps there is something similar going on with a. Extend this and you have a category, useful for analysis but not to be taken too far eg classic Jungian terms like introvert, extrovert, insecurity, etc.
But I always keep in mind that my views can never be entirely correct, because the only person you have to opportunity to fully understand is yourself, with everyone else its usually just guesswork.
I call all this in a way judging with a continuous re-examination of the evidence and an ongoing Jury. Although, I suppose to judge implies that you can come to a definate final conclusion, so hmmm maybe not a good term to use.
Anyway when you start blindly making assumptions about whole swathes of people because of the way they act, look, hold themselves etc that is where the real bad judging lies. Eg I was in a landy the other day and my parents were having a chat to a farmer, who was driving. He said something like "I have no time for people who smoke, no time at all". And I thought to myself: "I have little time for people who are that closed minded and judgemental". Lots of my friends smoke, I do occasionally (tho my reaction was not a defensive reflex), and to say something that broad is completely ludicrous. Another form of judging is racism. But was I being judgemental to him by thinking that? Hey the Jury is still out

Nobody has mentioned:
Higher State of Consciousness by Wink!!!!!!
(the originol, not any of the lame mixes, which aren't half as good)
blows my mind!!!!!!!!
Um, Winged Wolf - I knew there was some goth in there somewhere! lol...but Sisters are kinda cool. And metallica.....(drools)
Some songs - hell, lots of songs! - do funny things to my head, in that I think my energies shift match the vibrations of the music, I close my eyes and the music takes over my mind and...everything. The power some music has in it is amazing, which I suppose is one reason I like metal. But music which consistently does it for me, Rancid (currently in love with punk), there is  very cool song called Bruk Out by Rancid and the Buccaneers which I recommend to everyone as because it is so damn cool! I could go on and on and on but will leave it there.....
....I love music.....
(!!!)
btw if anyone out there is planning on going to Glastonbury in England, end of June, I would love to meet some of you guys!


Edited by - inguma on 11 April 2002  03:35:35

Mobius!

I found you post very interesting. Could you please tell us a little more about some of the various glands you mentioned - what effect does activating them have? Is it the same as activating a particlular chakra, and if not what method do you use?
thanks in advance!

Yeah pentegrams get a lot of flak....
When it is the right way up the pentegram is a sacred god-symbol (like the cross, the tetregrammaton, etc), and is used a fair bit in banishing rituals where you are effectively channeling the power of inherant in the symbol (and associations)

Yeah I know what you mean - keep it up! I love the net...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - inguma on 05 April 2002  16:02:10

Hey!
Firstly Fenris, nobody is trying to judge anyone else here, and it is all too easy to mis-interpret people, or make wrong assumptions about attitudes. But it is all based upon words and nothing else, so very easy to fly off at tangents. And if someone is actually trying to help, the best position they can do this from is one which caters for the level of knowledge of the receivor, so some assumptions must sometimes be made.

But anyway onto your question! The mystic  path and the magickal path both lead the same way, and spiritual development can be measured in steps of initiation which are the same for both paths (read Romero's article on the pulse, in the magick section, for more quality info). So yes you are right, there is nothing wrong with travelling down the magick path, but as ever a balance between magick and mysticism is best and quickest.
Personally if I see someone making a statement like that Paul Fenton-Smith bloke, I start getting very suspicions. Especially if the book is supposed to be greared towards spiritual development and hence a better understanding of the greater reality! To say everyone who studies magick is seeking a short cut to enlightenment, is an absolute statement, very wrong, and the sign of small mindedness IMO.
Personally, I am mostly the mystic sort, but do some magick, though I think I need to progress a little before I notice real changes.

Edited by - inguma on 05 April 2002  15:50:27

Hi!
The sensations you felt sound a lot like those you might get in a trance - do you know what your etheric body is? It is basically your energy body, chakras and all. When you go to sleep this expands and fills itself with energy (I think this is when most people get a lot of their energy...). When you go into a trance your mind shifts into the etheric body, which you percieve as your body, and the etheric body can expand in this state (depending on the depth of trance). Myself, when my third eye chakra was coming out of dormancy (age 15-16 maybe) I felt an overwhelming mental and physical "pressure" of being massively large and at time same time intesely small, with visual black/white contrasts (seeing strange patterns, black/white ones that is). Freaked me out it was so powerful. I think that as primary chakras start to awaken you can get some pretty odd sensations associated with them.
How familiar are you with trance? I also get a feeling of gentle expansion sometimes, a lot of trance sensations are odd but interesting.


Edited by - inguma on 05 April 2002  15:13:26

Because...
Life has its ups and downs, it seems in fairly equal proportions. If you disconnect yourself all you have is a slightly wobbly middle line, which can get a bit boring at times - am there, doing that
So you want excitement, happyness, sadness, variability, changes or just the stability and general nothing of the average?

If life is getting the worst of you, I think disconnecting can be very valuable and helpful, to get your head straight, set your goals and generally figure it all out. Then when you decide to step back into the river of life can live it how you want to.



Edited by - inguma on 05 April 2002  02:20:46

Hi!

quote: P.S. happy synchronicity with your fish

heh, just the word I was thinking of! But I wasn't sure how to spell it lol!

quote:One test I use is if the thought expresses itself in a distinctive "voice."

Yeah that was what I was thinking. I do not think that any sane people should objectively hear voices of their own creation, thats more the territory of schizophrenics.
With internal voices that not always your own, which is where it gets really tricky to tell!
I had a disturbing (stoned..) experience ages ago where I had a short conversation with a thoroughly evil sounding voice in my head. It claimed to be a part of me, but it just felt so completely alien. I think you are right, this is important - that is, the "feel" you get. Anyway I banished it (bit badly but did the trick) and the attachment point on my finger (small mole) started tingling and hurting, so I know it was at least connected to an outside influence. This was pretty clear cut, but with internal things, for me, it is the hardest to tell who is at the start of the thoughts. Take telepathy for instance, so hard to know whether you are making it up or not!
Thinking about it, with voices in your head, simply having a short conversation with them certainly helps. But I think that sometimes it becomes not very clear cut at all. Mostly this is with respect to neg attachments, but say the voice I heard really was a part of me, which had been subverted or created by a neg, whose is the voice? Thinking about it, it claimed to be part of me, but wouldn't reply when I asked who it answered to (was controlled by). So I still wonder whether banishing it was a good idea, or whether I should have tried to "integrate" it and bring it under my own control. Not an appealing idea though, slimy disgusting evil voice....
So you can easily get into gray areas at times, as negs can influence you to think in certain ways.

On the topic of mental sparks, this is kinda interesting. A similar thing happens when the projection reflex kicks in, and once you "see" it happening it become possible to re-create it. It's not quite a spark, move like an internal button you press (in the relevant part of the head and inner meta-space). I can't do it so well any more, but it basically let me trigger the projection reflex at will for a little while (took some effort tho). Any similar experience or thoughts? I think, the more you get to know of your own mind, the more you can control it at will. Still a long way to go though aye...

hey

No the voice was not from the physical or of anyone I know. It spoke quickly and had the tone of someone who was happily greeting me. Most of my development has been concerned with getting to know precisely what is going on in my own head, so I notice things other people might not, like the strength of the mental spark which was created with the voice (I call it like a spark, every thought has at its creation someything like this, which you can feel with a little practise, and then cut thoughts off as soon as they start, useful trick...) - though this does not mean I created it, as all psychic impressions have to get in somehow, through the unconscious mind reaching consciousness if they have enough strength.
However it was not full blown clairaudience, which I agree, you cannot fail to miss. I was once doing strong energy work on my ears (odd, interesting though) and recieved such a strong impression it blew me off my feet. The voice was female, and the power contained in it was immense, but unfortunetely I broke concentration and suspect I missed some of what was being said. So you have telepathy and clairaudience, but I do not think these are clear cut definitions, and there is likely a lot of territory in.

quote:Like my uncle used to tell me as an anxious beginning angler, "Don't worry, you'll KNOW when there is a fish on the line."

Ha, I caught my first fish the other day! a 1lb sea trout, tasty.



Edited by - inguma on 04 April 2002  15:03:54

Hey
I think that 30 minutes of meditation may be equivalent to the first 90 minutes of sleep (have heard many figures), but this is only because in the first 90 mins the body is still dropping off into deep sleep (the type in which REM activity occurs). It is apparently veeeery important to get to deep sleep, as lighter versions just don't cut it. I am not sure whether if you were able to get into a deep trance (delta level, equivalent of deep sleep) this would be enough, but suspect you could theoretically spend a whole night at this level and get up the next day just as rested as if you had slept. I have read that in a delta trance REM can occur, which makes this more likely.
Personally I always go into a trance before sleep, meditate a little, which may well help the body to get into deep sleep quicker than usual therefore increasing the "efficiency".
That said, some people do something called "power sleep" where they nap for 30 minutes at a time 3 times a day, reckoning that the first 30 minutes are most important, eg Margeret Thatcher. But some medical type people I know claim that the first 2 hours are sleep are virtally unproductive so I don't know who is right (but look at the state of maggy lol!)

quote:if people had these abilities there would be MANY profound ways they could help human lives, and they don't. Locating disaster victims. Locating kidnapped persons. Locating criminals

Whoa there - thats quite an absolute and sweeping statement! How do you know that? There may well be lots of very skilled psychics and OBEers discreetly helping the world, doing all the things you have said but:
a) You would rarely hear about it, all the little miracles these people may achieve would go completely unreported.
b) Most authorities would not even bother to listen to such people, so in the larger cases eg Bin Laden (trained and funded by the CIA, theoretically until he went rogue...) the government would plain ignore them. Therefore you would never know they were right.

Not quite as clear cut as you suggest IMO....

Oh I just remembered, I saw a documentary or something on TV ages ago, in which they were looking for clues in a murder case, and one of the coppers got a skilled psychic in to the crime scene (some woodland). Psychic quickly locates a critical piece of evidence, allowing the police to solve the case. Now I do not know how rare this is, but suspect it is more of a well used apporach that we suspect, in the police will usually try anything to get the material they need. I also suspect that many of the higher level police people could tell you lots of similar stories.
So it does happen, but like I say, most people will never hear about it, because thats the way the world works - they don't want to hear things which will cause them to change their beliefs. Olds, not news....

Frank: very well said

quote:Tell me you guys arn't serious,I didn't even think of what Inguma was trying to say in the context you put it in Roger.It wasn't until you posted that I had to go back & re-read Inguma's post & apply it to the violent end of the OBE spectrum.

(ROFLing madly!)
What I was trying to say?! Not at all! I meant they could make a better movie - not be move efficient killers or make a more bloody film! I am a bit confused now, um, yeah the film I was talking about was someone using OBE for evil purposes, but that sucks, so I got out the 13th Warrior instead .
Of course the OBEer should be good! Don't want to warp peoples minds - I wonder, did the people who made pyschic killer consider that in depth....?



Edited by - inguma on 03 April 2002  14:50:34

[really]

Hi R. Orb!

I certainly think you are right to an extent, but an actualy psychic attack literally "floods" you with a wave of fear, which makes it very difficult to just sit back and enjoy the ride . I can entertain the idea that it is me creating the fear, and perhaps i help to propagate it, but I am absolutely sure this is one of the methods of attack. It is really noticeable.

Rob

Ha yes, because of the voice I actually managed to make it to some important lectures. So it could have been just my mind making it up, but...well I am not sure really. I get strong intuition like my mind shouting at me to do something, and I ascribe that to "me". I also know that the voices seem to come from inside of me are *usually* me. But this was early in the morning, a time when you become very suspectible to picking up psychic impressions (real time sight, etc), so I still (like to?) think  it was from outside of me. And if it was my mind, wouldn't it have said something like "get up you lazy slacker!!"? The voice did have a fairly distinct feel to it, which I was not at all used to, in that it seemed like an objective speaker. But I cannot really be sure, don't have much experience in clairaudience, or the theory.




Edited by - inguma on 02 April 2002  17:33:14

[really]

Hey Atlas!

There have infact been many many tests proving the existance of things which are non physical, eg chi under scientific conditions and a qigong master:
http://home.eol.ca/~yuan/yansci/
(scientific tests can be found about 1-2 to 2/3 the way down, damn good ones too....)
Then there are all the documented RVing tests, eg where the atmosphere and surface of...um...Jupiter I think were documented WELL before science knew the answers (at the time they laughed at his evidence and even used it against him, re why RVing was a load of bull, but the thing is since then all the things which were "viewed" have slowly been verified....). Auras can also be photoed (?! spelling?), and measured using steady state devices (another very easy way to prove the existance of our sort of energy). Also I have heard, but not seen papers on, psychics being rigorously tested, OBEers like Monroe in labs (listen to the RB interview), ghosts (detectable by very sensitive equiptment, but the scientist doing the work was subsequantly chucked from the fold by his peers...another good reason scientists will not go near), many many things.
I have had this argument many times with my brother, who is a die-hard scientist sceptic, and has said exactly the same thing to me before. That is, if these things were proveable, it would blow the doors of science wide open. But the sad fact is that if someone spends their whole life investing confidence and arrogance in scientific theories they really, really don't enjoy seeing them wripped to shreds. Especially when it is by disciplines which they don't even think deserve honest investigation, like OBE, RV and anything "spooky" or they cannot understand...because it doesn't fit their theories (kinda looped argument huh?). So they do their best to discredit, disprove these things, and if that fails, ignore them. Oh, they can move forward in small jumps, by credited scintists, but most have some seriously large preconceptions about mysticism, magick, psychic stuff, which acts like a brick wall to bringing the good research that has been done into the limelight. This isn't all necessarily the fault of scientists, I would say it is the fault of a closed minded, ignorant/arrogant society. Further, scientists are mostly in the pockets of large corporations or the government, in that their money has to come from somewhere.
There are other much more dark and disturbing reasons which could easily be entertained, many of which are probably true, like what better way to stop research than to make people ridicule it? Done with the utmost of skill to the UFO arena.
Finally I would like to say that even if someone did manage to do something like you said, find this Chandra Levy while OBE, and RB or Romero could likely do this, but do you seriously think that it would make it into the news? I do not know who this Chandra person is, but I am sure that the media would completely skip the OBE part - people don't like news, they like olds as Terry Pratchett would say. What this means is that people like to know what they already know, just in different circumstances, they don't like having their belief systems shredded.
OK I may have divulged a bit here...hmmm....anyway hope you find it interesting

This is interesting....
First I agree that technology makes it easier to slack, and therefore gives little impetus for spiritual development. I also think it quite likely that there is a golden age coming, have had a few confimations of my own (prophetic dreams etc). But I do not think that the next 10 years will be easy, not at all (OK I admit I am a conspiracy theorist nut, but eg go read www.almartinraw.com )
The date mentioned, 23rd december, is quite significant for me because a little while ago I was attempting telepathic communication with my gran who passed away a little while ago, and asked for some significant dates. I don't have access to what I wrote down at the moment but I am pretty damn sure it was december 23rd, or 27th. Another one which I am less sure about could well have been february the 12 (feb = 2nd month, ie 2-12...and I wasn't listening for years at the time, just dates). So reading these posts kinda made me go "whoa!". But if I am wrong about the dates, I will find out in 2 weeks, and admit it.

I have had seriously large amounts of annoyance from this problem, which only makes it worst, because the more you try and stop it, the worst it gets. It is obviously all in the mind, so the only solution is to stop caring about it....harsh world eh? Either that or do projection attempts breathing through your nose with a lump of bread in you mouth!
Oh and having tastes lingering in the mouth doesn't help eg toothpaste.

Thanks Jason and Jo, you've given me some good stuff to think about. Funny I had never considered it to be quite like a gateway structure, just thought the central area seemed a natural high energy point, which is probably anaologous to what you were saying. The other thing is it is very similar to the magickal (I like the k...) symbol for air, and I am a very air orientated person (and to a lesser extent water...working on the other vacant two).

laters

ps I was lying down near the end of a long walk today (while I had been trying to phase into elemental consciousness), looked up and saw an almost perfect triangle form in the clouds above me, which soon drifted apart. It was very cool. I cannot remember which way up it was for me though, which is a bit poor.

Hi all,
great idea!
I saw a film in the rack when I went to get a movie out earlier today called something like "psychic killer". The blurb said it was about a bloke who is wrongfully convicted of murder, gets taught to OBE in prison and when he gets let out he uses his new skill to find the people who got him locked away (and presumably the people who actually committed the murder) and starts killing them. The police are left trying to chase an enemy they cannot see (so presumably he does the dirty work while OBE)....deep huh??! I am sure you guys could do a much better job!



Edited by - inguma on 01 April 2002  02:04:33

Well garlic does, so if you eat enough it just kinda seeps out through the skin, although you might repel slightly more than negs!

I've done a little research on this in the past, and it seems like there have actually been some finds from what is believed to have been the ancient continent of Mu, next to Japan. This was either a brother civilisation of Atlantis, or existed previously. It is interesting, especially when you look at the direction our "civilisation" seems to be heading, but it would be very easy to argue that humanity has built itselves up to pinacles on technology and "sophistication" and then promptly annihilated itself, as people become slack, greedy, controlling etc (nothing else to do I suppose!). Some claim this has happened up to 5 times in ancient history, stories even of quality metal nails being found stuck into bedrock hundreds of thousand of years old....
anyway I do not have the best links to all this stuff which is on my computer (am away) so you'll just have to make do with these which I have dredged up off google!

- get past the initial newageyness and they've got some good pictures (just head down):
http://www.crystalinks.com/bythesea.html

dunno about this, not real evidence provided though I'll admit to only skimming it, seems interesting:
http://www.atlantisrising.com/issue13/ar13japanunder.shtml

There are rumours of finds from Atlantis, pyramidal crystals being brought up out the hands of ancient statues etc (but where are the photo's?), and that the government is covering it up (maybe, but doesn't get you very far...someone always seems to say that anyway!). No evidence which I am privy to tho.
When I am rich (ha!) I plan to go looking for myself, scanning the ocean floors of the world....

Hey all

With many thanks to Adrian, who has uploaded this image on the astral pulse server for me (as I am away from my usual home):

http://www.astralpulse.com/membersimages/tri.bmp" border=0>

anyone seen/know anything about this symbol? It came to me in a meditation once, quite clearly. I know nothing about it but use it in magick sometimes. It looks like it should mean something!

Edited by - inguma on 30 March 2002  17:35:20

Hi Zugzug!
The shadow, yes they were human sized, I would be lying in bed in the dark, and one would appear out the wall on the left of my room, walk across to the right past the base of my bed, disappear through the wall and as it did that another would appear out of the wall on the left. Like a continuous parade of shadows, man sized. I think other people have seen similar things, from some of the things RB says. What is also interesting is how he describes these things as having to take on 2d appearance, just like shadows in other words...
Well, I was just an innocent little kid at the time, I strongly doubt that they were a repressed part of my own psyche! I am now pretty damn sure this was a direct psychic attack from one or a group of entities who have been attached to my family for some time. I experienced a similar attack about a year ago, but was able to break the paralysis as soon as it started, which was really satisfying. And I know my dad has connections to this/these creatures, as I did some interesting things to gaurd against sleep attack a while back (as a test, to see what would happen!) and the next morning he woke up with rashes all over his arms and legs, which has never happened before. Also I was drawing circles/crosses over attachment points (moles, warts, etc) and started feeling really very ill, throwing up occasionally, lots of other nasty symptoms and guess what - my dad got all the same symptoms! He even had a "stool" test to see whether it was an infection, which came back clear - ie he was medically perfectly healthy.

But yeah, the attacks, not pleasant huh? Left some serious mental scarring in me. The worst thing is when you try and scream, but can't, and nothing comes out...horrid. Which is one reason I go through bouts of doing everything I can to rid myself of these annoying pests, which is how I see them now.

happy hunting!

Hi Andy!
CIR - Core Image Removal - can actually be found in the article "basic psychic countermeasures", in the relevant section on the astral pulse. The reason I ask about physical body/energy sensations is because I experienced psychic attach at the age of about 5, where I saw completely black shadows walking across my room. Don't know how long this lasted, or the number of times it happened (at least 3 nights I remembered). It wasn't quite like yours, but yes full body paralysis, overwhelming fear, tried to scream but couldn't etc. Then a few months back I CIR'd these memories and whoa! Instantly strange tingling all over my body, drenched in sweat, pounding heart, stuff like that. So I would be interested if you or anyone experiences similar effects...

Hey Kristen,

quote:
Also, what are the contents of the subconscious? That which we find unacceptable and cannot consciously face? That which we cannot sense with our physical senses? Both and more?

OOooh big question, one I have thought about a lot - I love trying to figure out how the mind works. The way I see it is that the subconscious does contain all the things you talked about, eg repressed emotions. But I also think that it works kinda at right-angles to the conscious mind - which thinks mostly with logic, cause and effect. The unconscious, well, it just does not make sense to the conscious, it thinks....sideways. I was reading Franz Bardons the other day and he was talking about how everything in the universe displays its opposite, and so the mind has the conscious and its opposite, the subconscious, which therefore must work in a very different way.
As an example, schizophrenics often draw conclusions from things which seem utterly irrational to normal people, eg "I got up this morning and mrs jones said that she is getting a new car tomorrow so I just knew I was going to have a really good day", or my friend elwyn trying to balance his pint, or managing to come to the conclusion that a bloke he met in the nut house was his dad (the logic...just didn't work). This is the sort of anti-logic which I think is used by the subconscious mind, but it impinges way too much upon the conscious mind of shizophrenics, confusing them no end.
You can experience this "type" of "thinking" when in deep trance meditation. I believe at this time the conscious mind takes a more backseat role and the subconscious does most the work, or the two meld closer together, allowing direct experience. When I come out of trance, the things I was thinking are just so bizzarre and strange! Very abstract, but there is another component too - RB says that in this state it is the deep mind which is operating. But anyway this just seems all too similar to the examples above. I dunno, it all seems to fit right!