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[Originally posted by fallnangel77:]

quote:Originally posted by fallnangel77:
I like the onion analogy. Have you been watching Shrek or do you just like onions? http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_approve.gif" border=0>

I love that movie!  I just thought of an onion though when I was thinking of layers, that's all.  http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>




Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Hey there wmundstock,

Just wanted to reassure you that all those symptoms are completely normal for projectors.  However, usually the more experienced one becomes at having these, the less uncomfortable they feel.

The ringing/buzzing sensations usually accompany the person while they are on the verge of projection.  While I personally don't acknowledge these sensations when I separate, I have in the past, and I can tell you that they go away once you get out of your body.

You asked if this was just a drug induced sensation?  It sounds to me that it was an OBE, probably brought about because of the drugs.  Many people have used mind altering drugs to try and achieve the OBE state, mainly because they think it's a shortcut.  However, I highly recommend NOT taking this approach.  When a person is OBE, having a calm, controlled mind is super important.  Usually drugs are counterproductive, and the last thing you want to do is start tripping out in the astral realm!

It's also common to feel someone else near you when you're OBE.  It could be that you're sensing your physical body nearby.  Or you could be picking up on some guides or other astral entities.  I've found that if you project with a little paranoia, then that paranoia will be AMPLIFIED when you're out, and you'll think bad things are after you.  Remember that....however your minset is when you project, your emotions can (and usually are) amplified in the astral.  This is why it's important not to be scared or frightened.

I hope you have more to share with us in the future!




Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Frank:]

quote:Originally posted by Frank:
Adrian: The 3D blackness thing is difficult to explain. (I think Jeff_M might have some better input on this as it forms the basis of his own projection technique.) I'll try and think of a good analogy and get back to the thread. With me, the point at which I sense the 3D blackness is the point where I leave the Physical behind completely. My focal point of awareness has "crossed the bridge" and is now *completely* immersed in another reality.

You know what I like about your posts, Frank?  They help me to pinpoint exactly where I am in my progress, in regards to Monroe's Focus Levels.  For example, I never realized that I was in Focus 12 when I started to see the blackness turn three-dimensional!

Adrian....I'll try my best to explain a little more about how I percieve these 3D shapes and blackness.  

To get a better idea, just close your eyes right now for about five seconds.  If you're like me, you see blackness....probably some spots of light and after images, but mostly just black.  Another thing you would have noticed is that this blackness is two dimensional.  It's like looking at a TV screen.  You may see things, but there is no depth to them.

Once you get around Focus 10 (mind awake/body asleep), you will have begun to see more images (still two dimensional).  With me, these images don't disappear quite as quickly as before, although they still only last a couple of seconds.  I just try to leave my mind open to receive anything that I'm shown.  Usually I see all kinds of weird, fleeting images.  If I could write down my mental process at the time, it's kind of like this:

::blackness::

:::image::::

"Hmmm, looks like a stick."

::blackness::

::new image::

"There's something green....."

::blackness::

The hardest part is quieting this internal dialogue that takes place in your mind, since your mind thinks it's "Mr. Know It All" and tries to prove how smart it is by identifying everything it sees!  Like Frank says, maintaining a curious, open mentality is extremely important from this point on.

Eventually, you'll start to notice that this two dimensional blackness starts to take on some depth.  It almost looks like there is a black wall a little further back from the blackness that you've been looking at.  It's at this point where the images I see start to become three dimensional.  Instead of seeing just a stick or a color, I start to see things with more shapes, like a ball, or a book.  I consciously acknowledge this turning point, and I realize that I can now observe depth perception.  Although I know that my body is still somewhere, I am starting to get drawn into this void.  So when I see these images begin to take on this tangible look to them, I know I'm getting close to phasing into the astral realm.

I hope I did some justice with that explanation.  I'm sure Frank will add/comment on it when he gets some time.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Welcome back!  Did these experiences occur in the morning, afternoon, or night?  Also, what position where you in (back, side, stomach)?



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Suzy...

See my above response in the "Welcome to OBE Discussions" forum.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Suzy.....

Here's a little tip.  Any website that tries to sell you a METHOD on how to OBE quick and easy....STAY AWAY FROM IT!

It's one thing to pay for books which can help you learn about OBE's.....but it's another thing to pay for something which promises successful OBE's in a short amount of time.  That site looks like a rip off scam...very little content and only promising results after payment.

Take it from me.  There is plenty of FREE resources right here on this Message Board.  Not only that, but we are real, live people who can help answer your questions in a timely manner.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Well, let me be the first to welcome you then!  Hope to read some of your future experiences!


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by weagle:]

quote:Originally posted by weagle:
>>If I am already OBE and I stare, it helps to ground me a bit, and the luciduty >>becomes stronger. It makes me feel like I can stay OBE forever.

really you can stay on there forever with no major anomalies and remember everything?  I remember robert bruce saying only way you can stay astrally for many minutes (15 minutes tops)  if you are trained or/and you go back to your body to download the information then go outwards but if you start getting anomalies you just stare at an object and then everything stabilizes again?  that's amazing.

Err.....I didn't say I could stay there forever!  I said it made me FEEL like I could!  In reality, what happens is that no matter how much control I have when I'm 'out', something always happens which makes me lose control.  Sometimes, I'll be flying so fast that I get disorientated, and I return to the physical.  Other times, I'll get overwhelmed with an onslaught of thoughts, like:

"What should I do now?"
"Should I try to contact someone?"
"Hey, look at my hands!"
"Why does my kitchen look different?"
etc.....

Usually, if I don't quiet my mind and calm these thoughts, I lose control within a matter of seconds!

So you see, even though I can FEEL like I can stay out forever, I usually get distracted by something and return to my body.  This is why everytime I'm 'out', it's a constant learning process on how to stay out longer with greater control.




Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Gus:]

quote:Originally posted by Gus:
Your explanation is OK, but unfortunately it cannot be proved.

You're probably right.  I can't prove it scientifically, but through experience, I hope to solidify this theory within myself.  With each experience that a person has, it shapes their entire outlook on 'what happens when we project.'

For example, I think a lot of experienced projectors have at one point questioned themselves, "Are all of these just some very, VERY realistic dreams?"  I know I've sometimes wondered that.  But then you start to add up all the charcteristics of these wonderful experiences, and you realize that you aren't 'dreaming.'  You're more awake, alive, and conscious than you ever could have been in the physical world.

This layer theory that I suggested wasn't invented by me....it's something I've read about from many experienced projectors.  And based on my own experiences, it seems to make sense and hold some credibility.  Maybe once you get some more OBE's under your belt, you'll see the same thing.  Or maybe you will be able to offer us some other perspective that we've never seen before.  That's the beauty of this whole thing.  We're all in this learning game together.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

It sounds to me that you had an OBE, but your conscious level of awareness wasn't extremely high....just high enough to remember these OBE details.
I have had a number of experiences were full blown OBE's have faded into dreamlike experiences (due to my consciousness fading and losing control); likewise, I've had semi-conscious dreams turn into full blown OBE's with my full conscious awareness.  I think it's all just a matter of how focused a person is at the time of their projection.

Keep working on it, and hopefully next time, there will be no doubt in your mind that you've successfully projected.  =)


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Gus:]

quote:Originally posted by Gus:
I don't think so. In real OBE you must actually be Out Of Body and see the world as it is, not imagined.

virtual OBE = real OBE? What's the difference?

Jacara has the right idea.  You see, Gus....when a person goes out of their body, things aren't always as cut-and-dry as you'd like to think.  Think of reality (all forms of reality) like an onion.  Each layer you peel looks similiar to the one before that, but not exactly the same.  The astral realm can be compared to this.  The higher up you go (or vibrate), the less you'll recognize things in the real time zone.

When you project, you're already vibrating at a much higher frequency than the physical world.  So when you project into the real time zone, you may THINK that you're seeing the physical world, but you're probably seeing a thin, onion layer right above it.  The computer monitor which you're reading this message doesn't only exist in this physical world.  It exists on a multitude of dimensions.  While projecting, you may see the computer monitor as it exists on that other layer, not necessarily this one.  Some may disagree with this, but I would think that a lot of experienced projectors would agree with that statement.

You also have to take into account that your mind can influence your experience.  You seem to think that if your mind creates something while out of body, then it isn't real.  The only reason why you think the computer monitor is real is because your mind is telling you that it is.  There are surgical procedures that can be done to remove parts of your brain which would detach yourself from reality.  You wouldn't know the difference between a computer and a skunk.

My point is that like the physical realm, you're mind plays a big part in your experience while OBE, because you take it with you when you're out.  Your mind still translates things it sees into something that you can understand.  You're not looking at physical things but ENERGETIC things, so your mind has to take that energy and interpret it into something that you recognize/understand.

To say that a true OBE is one that only takes place in the verifiable physical world (and everything else is not a true OBE) is so absurd, it makes me want to chop off my head.  

Out of curiousity, how many OBE's have you had?  I only ask, because some of your statements seem to be based on your own philosophy of what you've put together from books and literature...not necessarily from experience.  I'm not here to say anyone is right or wrong, but I am speaking from my own personal experience, and it's definetely clashing with what you're saying.

I'm curious to see what others (Frank, Adrian, Patty, Tish, etc.) has to say.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Blossom:]

quote:Originally posted by Blossom:
I have a question also.  Does anyone know if any study or research has been done which actually attempts to "weigh" ethric substance to determine is there is any sort of mass involved?  I realize that mass usually means a physical substance even if it is too small to see visually, but has any study been done in this area to determine this?

Jenn, there was some study done many years ago, where scientists measured the weight of a dying person.  They discovered that shortly after death, the person lost a small fraction of weight (2 1/4 ounces).  Some tried to attribute this to the weight of the etheric body, leaving the physical body at death.  Others attributed this tiny weight loss to the physical body relaxing as remaining oxygen is dispelled.

I did find an old thread talking about this online from alt.out-of-body.  You can check it out here:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Weight+of+Etheric+Body&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=MPG.16cb84b47ccf44b6989860%40news.lineone.net&rnum=8



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Gus:]

quote:Originally posted by Gus:

quote:In robert's book you can do some tricks to see if you have succesfully done obe like pick a card from a deck and don't see it and place it in a spot where you will see it when you obe then check afterwards if it's the same.

Not good enough, the probability of "guessing" is too high. Or you must repeat it several times.

Guessing is too high?  You have a 1 in 52 chance!  I challenge you to take a random card from a deck of cards and 'guess' the number and suit.  I think you'll find that it's not as easy as a simple guess.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by weagle:]

quote:Originally posted by weagle:
Gus: that's true but like jeff pointed out if it's a dream and not the real obe if you stare at an object if it's not an obe it will become one afterwards.  I wonder what happens when you are in obe and you stare at an object there's no reason to obe again something else must happen?  Jeff probably knows the answer to this one since he has done many obe's.

I will speak from my own experience.  Others may vary.  For me, staring increases lucidity.  That's it.  If I am dreaming, and I remember to stare at something, my lucidity increases, I become aware, and then I have a full blown OBE.  

If I am already OBE and I stare, it helps to ground me a bit, and the lucidity becomes stronger.  It makes me feel like I can stay OBE forever.  

For example, what do most people try to do in order to calm down someone else?  They take them by the shoulders and say, "Hey, HEY! Calm down...look at me!  Look at me!"

I apply the same thing to my experiences.  When I get out and I start fluttering around, and my mind is racing with things to do, I simply stop, take a few deep astral breaths, and stare at something in order to make me more lucid.

quote:
 In robert's book you can do some tricks to see if you have succesfully done obe like pick a card from a deck and don't see it and place it in a spot where you will see it when you obe then check afterwards if it's the same.

I have never tried any of these things, mainly because I don't really care if I can physically prove these or not.  I would rather dive further into the astral and learn more than stay close to the physical plane and try to read a card.  That's just my mentality though.  Not to mention, I have had touble reading and seeing numbers when I am out.

quote:
jeff: that's amazing just stare at nothingness and think of nothing except the air going into your lungs then center your attention to the hypnogogic images can trigger an obe?

Well, yes and no.  It's not like a magic switch that clicks and BOOM!  You're OBE.  It's just something that keeps my mind occupied while taking my attention away from the physical body.  I also am finding that the perception I use when viewing hypnogogic imagery is very simialiar to how I view things in the astral.

quote:
 How long did it take you to achieve this skill?

This is an ongoing thing, my friend!  Every attempt is building on the last.  I have been practicing for the last 4 years, since my first one in 1998.

quote:
I know every mile must vary in developing their skills.  Some people were saying about day dreaming ie blur your vision into a point like you said look beyond an object can do it also but only when yoou close your eyes when they get dizzy tired?  How about the falling technique (ie going own elevator/ladder) has that every helped trigger obe's according to robert's book he said that it helps put you into sleep mode much faster even if you're not tired.  But then again what you describe says that it puts you in sleep mode as well (ie day dream vision).

I have never had any experiences from dreaming about falling/elevators, etc.  But what works for me might not work for you...and vice versa.  I see both as a way of occupying your mind with OBE related symptoms, while at the same time, getting your mind off your physical body.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Gus:]

quote:Originally posted by Gus:
I think that awareness alone doesn't proves that the OBE is real.
If the OBE is in "this world" then you need to compare the details. It must be some place you haven't seen before, otherwise it could be just from memory.

The mind could just simulate the OBE

Gus,

From reading your past responses, I get the impression that you assume TRUE OBE's are only those which project into the real time zone.  This couldn't be further from the truth.

While it is possible to project into the RTZ, verifying things in it can be tricky.  For example, I have had someone who has never been to my house project to me and describe my room in detail.  This isn't something her mind could have made up.  So perhaps this would have been a TRUE OBE according to your description.

However, when I've been OBE, I have seen little incongruencies around my house, like furniture being out of place or doors placed where they shouldn't be.  To you, this wouldn't be a true OBE.....but reality as we know it is all relative.  Despite those incongruencies, that reality was just as real as me typing this post to you.  I won't pretend to understand everything that happens in the astral realm, but I can tell you this.  Your imagination/mental state can play a big part in how you percieve your experiences, just as it does in the physcial waking environment!  That doesn't take away from the genuineness of the experience.  

After all, what are we talking about here? An out of body EXPERIENCE, which is a non-physical experience.  How can a person apply physical laws and reasoning to a non-physical place?  


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Gus:]

quote:Originally posted by Gus:
The fact that nobody has been able to prove ANY paranormal abilities makes me very sceptical too about others claims. All of them have been proved to be tricks.
Considering this, isn't it normal to not believe? It's stupid to believe without a proof.

Before I had any OBE's to speak of, I was a skeptic.  However, my mentality as a skeptic was this.  "Even though I haven't had an out of body experience, I believe that it's possible.  So while I can't say for sure that they are real, I want to try and see for myself."

It was this "anything is possible" attitude which allowed me to remove any Preconceived notions about the existence of OBE's, and experience one for myself.  It's a shame that a lot of skeptics automatically assume that things like this are not possible, because those kinds of attitudes will only hinder them in their quest for answers.  

Bottom line: there is a difference between skeptics who want to PROVE that OBE's are real, and those who want to prove that they are not.  Being skeptic is a good thing, because it allows you to question things.

quote:

quote:First and foremost, I've heard a lot of people say, "OBE is a very spiritual thing. I would never exploit it for money, because I'm above that."

I think not because of money, they simply are afraid of not being able to prove it and don't want to look as idiots and get bad reputation - that's the real cause.

That's not THE real cause, but that certainly is A real cause.  There are many reasons why a person may not want to be tested, and fear of failure is definetely a big one.  However, saying it's only because of one thing is a bad assumption, especially coming from a person who may not have had any OBE's in the first place.  =)

quote:

quote:You see, the non-physical world isn't always as "stable" as this physical world. You may project to the same place twice and see entirely different things.

That's obviously not real OBE.

That obviously was a ridiculous statement!  Either your knowledge/experience with OBE's is fairly limited, or you left your brain at the door when you logged in.  j/k  

quote:

quote:To achieve an OBE because SOMEONE ELSE wants you to is even harder.

Stress?

Yes, I think stress and fear of failure, most likely.  Again, these can be very hard to do when you're alone.  So trying to do them when you know other people are monitoring you could be enough mental baggage to stop any experiences from happening.

For example, if I told you to walk on a 6" narrow ledge which is suspended six feet in the air, you might be a little nervous of falling, but you could do it.  Now if someone took that same ledge, raised it 110 stories into the air, and then told you to walk it, how would you feel?  It's the same ledge, but the conditions are now different.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Paukki:]

quote:Originally posted by Paukki:
Hi there,
I'm just curious as to how hard YOU worked at getting your first OBE.

Well, let me first state that I used to try so HARD to have an OBE back in the day.  It almost got frustrating for me, which is very counteractive towards your progress.  

For example, the WORST thing beginners do when they practice is that they think to themselves, "Ok, I'm not feeling anything..........still not feeling anything.......I don't feel my legs anymore, but why can I still feel my body......"

You get the point.  It can be frustrating, and I think all of us have gone through this.  However, my first OBE came when I least expected it.  I was either reading Robert Monroe's first book of Slvan Muldoon's book late at night, and I decided to just go to sleep.  No projection techniques, no practing, nothing.  I was too tired.  

Then, in the middle of the night, I snapped back to full conscious awareness, and I just felt....strange.  A buzzing sensation was all around me, and I was AWAKE.  I thought to myself, "Stay calm, and think about floating or something!"  In that same moment, I floated up into a sitting position.  My upper body was OUT, but my lower body was still in the physical.

"HOLY S*&^%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   I did it!!"  That was all I could think about, and right after that, I was reconnecting.

The point is that sometimes, you just have to give in, not give up.  There's a big difference.  Keep reading about OBE's everyday.  For example, I read this forum all throughout the day, and read other OBE/psychic/paranormal literature in the evenings.  By keeing these kinds of things in the forefront of your mind, you will increase your chances of success.

Hang in there!  And remember, if you are starting to get frustrated at failed attemps, take a break for a couple of nights.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

The thing about James Randi's offer is this.  For me, trying to influence something on the physical realm while I'm out of body is like trying to prove I can breathe underwater when no one is watching.

First and foremost, I've heard a lot of people say, "OBE is a very spiritual thing.  I would never exploit it for money, because I'm above that."  Well, let me be the honest doofus and say that if I could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that I could move physical objects while OOB for one million dollars, I would do it without a second thought.  Hell, with that much money, I could devote more time to study these things more.

However, here is why that will never happen (at least for me).  To achieve an OBE at will, because YOU want to, is very hard to do.  To achieve an OBE because SOMEONE ELSE wants you to is even harder.  So assuming that you can achieve an OBE whenever anyone wants, that still doesn't solve your problem.

You see, the non-physical world isn't always as "stable" as this physical world.  You may project to the same place twice and see entirely different things.  This is because a lot of what you perceive in the astral realm is based on your emotions and your state of mind.  Someone who is calm and relaxed may have a peaceful experience.  Someone who just finished watching "Hellraiser" may enounter something more terrifying.

Do you realize that there are still people in this world (living in very advanced societies) who still subscribe to the theory that the Earth is flat?  The point being that some people will remain unconvinced of something when their mind is made up.  And since I am not a projector to prove to a skeptic the reality of my experiences, I simply ignore the bait that they try to wave in front of me.

No sense in wasting time for a worldly gain when there is so much more to learn when out of body.  Bottom line: if I'm out of body and I have a chance to interact with my guide, or be a guinea pig for some skeptic, I'll be cruising with my guide in his Mustang!



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Yes, I do believe that one can affect the physical world while out of body, although I have not been able to do so.  Robert Monroe had mentioned in one of his books how he actually PINCHED a female friend of his while he was projecting.  Not only did she feel the pinch, but she even had a little bruise from the experience!

Other projectors have tried to move objects, such as a pencil balancing on end, or blowing out a candle.  For me, personally, I really have no desire to try and affect anything on the physical when I am out.  I tend to be more focused on the non-physical things, like learning and finding simpler ways to focus my mind on something to faciliate the projection process.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Patty:]

quote:Originally posted by Patty:
Hey Jeff,

Neat guide. Neat car. (And thanks for the tip about staring, in the other thread.)

My pleasure!  

quote:
You asked about memory. I have had in the dozens of OBE's/ld's. Not sure if I have broken a hundred or not. But I have sure seen a difference in my memory and reaction to them. I have thought it is because now they are ho-hum, whereas at first they were so radically different from normal sleep.

So like you, I don't remember them as well, they aren't as startling, etcetera.

I know EXACTLY what you mean.  I remember back in 1998 when I was desiring to have an OBE for the very first time.  If back then, someone were to tell me, "You know Jeff, there may come a time when you will have OBE's, but they just won't be that exciting and you'll probably forget them," I would have told that person that they were nuts!  

But it's true.  Even though every time I get out of body, I am ecstatic, I usually don't have the mind-blowing, "let's-jump'up-and-down-to-celebrate" mentality that I used to have.  I think what I will do from now on is keep a pad and paper close hand.  It won't seem like such a chore to jot down key points from my projection, as opposed to going into my office, turning on the computer, and waiting for it to come up before typing it down in my journal.

quote:
That sounds grim, but the flip side is that it is like anything else --- with experience you lose the novelty but you gain ability. (under the lucid dreaming forum I posted about how yesterday I was able to react to an inconsistent lucid environment in a calm and reasoned way. It didn't frustrate me, for the first time! And it wasn't because I didn't want to be frustrated, but because I recognized that the environment was a valuable opportunity even if it was shifting on me.) So you know, Iguess the thrill is gone but there is a lot to be said for being able to navigate the environment rationally. It seems clear that you have gained some exp[ertise in your travels.

I think that with OBE's, if we were to graph their meaningfullness, it's not always an upward slope.  It usually goes up, peaks for a little, goes up, peaks for a little, etc.  

For example, I have been at a peak for a while.  While still having regular experiences, nothing "exciting" or meaningful has happened.  It is during these times that I work on my control, my lucidity, controlling sexual thoughts, etc.  But now, I think I am moving upwards again, especially since I'm entering an area where I'm trying to make contact with my/a guide.  I'm sure once I establish an astral connection with him, this will lead me onto another peak of the astral graph where I will have more learning to do.

quote:
(Incidentally, regarding being a dork. I'm still jumping when I am out, to test whether I am out or not. That has to look pretty dorky - there goes patty, jumping up to the ceiling again because she can't tell if she's in body or not!)

We're just a pair of astral dorks!


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

Lysear,

You were right on the brink of projecting.  It is highly common to project from a dream.  I have done this many times, simply by staring at something in my dream environment.

If you find yourself in this same situation again, the important thing to remember is to remain CALM.  By remaining calm, you may find yourself lightly bobbing in and out of your body, almost as if you're slightly disconnected and out of place.  From this position, you can literally roll out of your body onto the floor (or simply use another exit method).

It sounds to me like you allowed yourself to get scared and tensed up a bit, which will only ruin a successful OBE.

Keep trying...you're almost there!


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by weagle:]

quote:Originally posted by weagle:
i forgot just one last question about your eyes starting to close what are the hypnogogic images are they the afterimage of the object you were watching?

It's not an after-image, because I am not looking at anything in particular.  When I do this exercise, it's almost completely black in my room.  My eyes are open but I can't see diddly-squat.  This accomplishes the same thing as having your eyes closed, except that it seems to help me quiet my mind and relax.  By the time I feel my eyes closing, I start seeing these images.

Note: Even if you choose to do this exercise in the daylight hours, I think it would be important not to forcefully stare at an object, but just allow your line of sight to be broad.  

For example, if you were to hold your finger out in front of your face, don't stare at your finger but look past it to the wall in the background.  You're still aware of your finger, because you see it there.  You're just not staring at it.  This is the same thing I do.  I look at a single point but I am not forcefully staring at anything.  It kind of reminds me of those 3D pictures that look like a random bunch of patterns.  Only after you relax your eyes do the 3 dimensional objects come into view and you can see a whole new scene!  This is exactly what happens to me during my relaxation process.

quote:
Is it like a dream scenario or random pictures going through the mind?  I was wondering how effective it is to just to glare at an object and just visualize it and keep it in mind while you close your eyes does that help or it has to be hypnogogic images/random images??

To each his own.  I think if you were to look at an object and stare at it, you could try to hold that image in your mind's eye when you close your eyes.  However, this doesn't work for me.  I prefer to allow random images to come into view instead of me exuding effort to hold something I already looked at.

The only advantage, for me, to look at something physical and try to mentally hold that image, is that it helps to heep your mind focused on something while your body is shutting down.  However, I personally have no problem keeping my mind aware, so I choose to focus on the astral images I start to see instead of some conjured up image in my mind.





Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by Meg:]

quote:Originally posted by Meg:
What does everyone think about this? I am a bit wary of entities pretending to be someone they're not. And the whole experience was so confused that I don't really know what to make of it. What are the chances of my "guide" being a deceased relative?

I think you're guide could be anyone.  You probably have many guides out there.  Whether it's your deceased grandfather or someone else taking his form in order to make friendly contact is completely feasable.

I think you can discern a good entity from a bad one by their actions.  If you get a bad feeling about anyone (in the physical or non-physical world), you should heed those feelings.  Sounds to me like you and your grandpa hit it off pretty good, even though you don't remember the details of it.  Don't you just HATE that?!

quote:
What do you all think of automatic writing?

I don't think too much about that.  Ironically, this old friend of mine, who is a born again christian, is secretly into that.  While she thinks OBE's are of the devil, she has no problems with automatic writing, since she justifies it by saying, "God wrote through the prophets and men when writing the Bible.  I see it as the same thing, only He helps me write poems and things like that."

That right there proved to me that people will believe whatever they want to believe, and convince themselves of anything to fit into their own ideology.



Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

I used to think to myself, when I see a guide, it'll be someone wise looking, in a long flowing robe or some other mystical attire.

Lately, though, I've rid my thoughts of these preconceived notions.  That's why this last projection, I told myself, 'Self, the next person you see is probably going to be a guide.'  That is when this man in a car drove up and looked at me, as if to say, "You called?"  LOL

Next time I get out, I hope to concentrate on this experience to bring this guy back, and strike up a conversation.


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[Originally posted by weagle:]

quote:Originally posted by weagle:
I see now, so you don't do nothing but stare no breath awareness/body awareness exercise except the staring like for example the falling/going down thing to trick your body to relax/fall asleep you don't do that?.

I do a little breath awareness at the same time that I'm relaxing my eyes and looking for these images.

quote:
How long do you usually keep your eyes open before they start to get tired?

Depends on how awake I am when I lay down.  Usually, though, my eyes start to close on their own within 5 minutes.

quote:
What do you do when you close your eyes aferwards do you do any extra trance exercises or you automatically go to the hypnogogic state?

Again, I take big long breaths at this time to further relax my body.  I try not to clutter my mind with in depth breath awareness (where you count in, breath, count out, exhale), simply because it keeps my mind too active.  I need to quiet my mind in order to relax completely, and this is why I simply concentrate on the hypnogogic imagery.  By the way, this imagery usually comes soon after my eyelids close on their own.

quote:
How long does it take the first time you achieved the hypnogogic roughly?

See above.

quote:
I personally think these are the best techniques when I try doing those rope/water sky technique or whatever my body starts tensing up the staring is by far the best however I think the rope technique is atleast good when you do exit from your body and somehow are still stuck to it and need to pull yourself out thinking/feeling of climbing on a rope helps you break free.

Yes, I attribute the rope technique (at least in my case) As an EXIT technique, not a projection technique.  Personally, I prefer to roll out of my body, but sometimes when I am stuck, using a rope to PULL myself out works just fine.  But concentrating on a rope to induce the projection is not something that I'm good at.




Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com