Messages

Astraladdict
What you experienced is what I call Dual Consciousness. Many people experience this while out of body. I have had this happen during 2 or 3 OBEs where I was simultaneously aware of being out of body and had partial hearing in my physical body. One time I was OOB and was aware of being in a dream (that was odd).
Also many accounts of bilocations include other physical people seeing the spirit/astral body of the person who was bilocating. So perhaps somebody saw your astral body during the bilocation (?)

Regards 
Grey

[a public place where projectors travel to on the way to 'somewhere else'.]

Seasons Greetings 

Pauli2, you wrote

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

W R O N G.

Wrong.

Focus 27 is _not_ a BST.

In my opinion, this wrong assumption is one of the most common faults with Frank's system of Focuses oC, which garbles up what's what, by oversimplifying the Monroe Focus Levels.

and Xanth, you agree with Pauli2.

Can either of you elaborate a bit on this, please, I'm confused.

CFTraveler, you wrote

It is my opinion that the mall you are talking about is a common place in the astral, a public place where projectors travel to on the way to 'somewhere else'. It is a collective place, but it is also a place that can be affected by the subconscious, so you can actually see 'real' entities (i.e. other projectors) and also deal with your own subconscious symbols.

I added the bold in your quote to Highlight why I believe the mall (or a mall as there may be many) Is indeed a belief system territory. I too have been to a mall area (probably a different one the Hoo2 has been to). Anyways the mall that I visited OOB seemed very much a meeting place or again as CFT put it

a public place where projectors travel to on the way to 'somewhere else'

Regards 
Grey

Xanth, you wrote

Well, if what we consider to be a "dream" is just another state of consciousness in another area of consciousness... then, the next step, is assuming that when we're "there" we're the same as if we were "here" while awake.  So that would make THIS a dream just as much as we believe the "there" is a dream.  Smiley

Clear as mud?  LOL

Basically, I see consciousness as existing everywhere simultaneously... it's why I say that what we call a "dream" doesn't really even exist.  What we call a "dream" is simply another form of existing.

A pretty clear and lucid explanation. And one that I agree with in principle. In practice, however, there are very difficult barriers to overcome to access certain levels or areas of consciousness. The Out of Body consciousness is one of the most difficult areas to access. That is why I delineate and divide these areas of consciousness as separate and unique.
One could claim that I see the glass as half empty while you see the same glass as half full. Six of one kind or a half dozen of the other. Same thing and different description. 

Regards 
Grey

Xanth, you wrote

We're all dreaming right now.  ^_~

Could you elaborate a bit on that statement.
I thought/think that I am awake but am open to most possibilities. 

Curious 
Grey

Spiritualbliss
Very nice and well done.
Just one question fer ya.
When you 'snuck a peak" while out of body did you
a) open your physical eyes and see your astral/ethereal body floating from the perspective from your physical body or
b) did you have astral vision and see yourself floating from the perspective of being outside of your physical body?

Just curious 
Grey

Hallo MDM
Thanx for that link.
I'll check out your website and post back here with some feedback.

Regards 
Grey

Firmitas, to reply to your question

From what you have experienced, do things become more clear the more you project?

Generally, Yes, astral sight in particular, and all the senses in general Do become clearer with more OBEs/APS. However, every now and again I experience confusion and poor astral sight. Don't know why that happens, it just does. Usually an affirmation such as "Vision Now !" or "Clarity Now !" will clear everything up.

Regards 
Grey

Hi Firmitas
Very good and congrats. 
That was a very eventful first OBE. Many people do little more than float around their bedroom during their first OBE. Pretty good flight skills for a beginner too. 
The vibrations and sleep paralysis are Always accurate indicators that an OBE is imminent.
Of all the methods that I have used or tried to use the 'roll out' method is by far the best (easily the highest successful percentage.

Regards 
Grey

Hallo manwesulimo
So, basically....yes, that's about it.
Again, using Hitler's Germany as the example--- it was an objective reality because it DID exist. Yet that objective reality was based on lies, hatred and violence. Therefore I can label it a "false' objective reality.
That is as good of a definition that I can conceptualize.

Your statement

So that makes objectivity the subjectivity of the masses

sums it up very nicely indeed.

Regards 
Grey

manwesulimo2004, you wrote

So you're saying that if two people agree that Jews are the root of all evil (sticking to the WW II theme here) then that becomes an objective reality?  huh

I'm thoroughly confused about the way the terms "objective" and "subjective" are being used in this thread.

Yes, I get your point and it IS a valid point.
However, if two people Do agree that Jews are the root of all evil then to those two people that viewpoint is an objective reality. That viewpoint IS NOT something that I agree with yet the underlying principle Is basically sound. The same holds true for the theology of ALL religions and ideologies (Again Most of which I DO NOT agree with.
So If you and I agree that Jews are NOT the root of all evil (and here I am assuming that we can agree on that) then logically we can also agree that many 'objective truths' are based on erroneous beliefs and are therefore false.
I think that I can anticipate the next argument, which is that IF objective truths are based on erroneous beliefs then they CANNOT be objective truths. Perhaps I can agree with that in principle yet, unfortunately, that leaves hardly any difference between the terms 'subjective' and 'objective' except semantics. So I prefer the term 'false objective truths'. The term may seem misleading yet it perfectly fits the phenomena such as "Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, etc.

Regards
Grey

shineling

My view on heaven and hell has been heavily influenced by the writings of Robert Monroe. After extensive out of body travels Monroe concluded that there is no One Heaven or One hell. Rather there are many smaller Belief System Territories that serve the same function. I believe that he called these locations false heavens and false hells. His view on these places (and one that I agree with) is that most were/are populated by deceased people who either want to be there or who feel that they need to be there due to prior religious indoctrination.

Regards 
Grey

Greetings
I read a passage in a book about magick written by a man named Brennan. He too was dealing with the subject of objectivity vs subjectivity. I do not have the book at hand so I will paraphrase.
He asked whether the nation of Poland was (objectively) real. Certainly most Poles believe that it is. Though he (Brennan) had never been to Poland he had read that Hitler's armies had invaded there in 1939 and he had read enough about it to postively conclude that Poland Was an objective location.
Brennan concluded that something (a place, a person or an event) can have objective reality even if you do Not directly experience it. This is something that I definately agree with. And, in fact, I would even go so far as to say that if two or more people agree about a subjective point of view then that subjective point of view has become an objective reality.

Hope this was enlightening and not confusing 
Grey

Greetings

Regarding the dream 'triggers' that Xplorer wrote about. One of my daily affirmations is "Recognize an incongruity in the next dream." The idea is to recognize an incongruity in a dream and therefore realize that it is a dream and then become lucid.
Some of the main incongruities that I look for are-
a) being back in high school,
b) seeing deceased people, usually celebrities, in a time frame when they were/are not alive, and c) dreams of war, especially WW1, WW2 and the Korean War.
Of course there are potentially hundreds more dream triggers/incongruities yet the point is to look for the ones that are the most obvious.

Regards 
Grey

Hallo Shineling
Good to see that you made it back from the 'nether regions' safe & sound (no joke intended).
Extreme emotions can sometimes negatively affect an OBE. Remember that while out of body you should be able to a) teleport from one place to another and b) fly or float at will.
Did you think to use either of the abilities at the time?
It might even have made sense to have asked to see someone in charge and have them explain why you were there. There was probably some type of mistake that brought you there. Anyway you did well in a very unenviable situation.

Regards 
Grey

Greetings
CF Traveler probably has it right. "Dwellar on the threshold" was the term that I meant. The "old hag syndrome" Is nearly always a negative encounter and therefore does Not fit the description of this event.

Cheers 
Grey

Xplorer
Right, it just happens like that sometimes. Without warning, w/o trying, it just Happens!
Your latest OBE (#4) was really well recorded. You remembered a lot of details and that's good!
The person that you fought in the dream was most likely a dream figure/thought elemental that you created for the dream. Yet you realized it after becoming lucid and going OOB.
I am convinced that the fastest and easiest way to go out of body is through dreams. I have even written out a protocol to follow every night. It is still in the experimental stage. It goes 1) spend 10 minutes in OBE induction usually rope or cargo net 2) state affirmations for the night and list any dream incongruities to look for. 3) attempt to induce a W.I.L.D. and then, if in a lucid dream transform it into an OBE. So far no LDs/WILDs. I need to stay with that until it works.

Regards 
Grey

Welcome Kate
Distorted astral senses are actually quite common for new, inexperienced OBEers. That is something that usually clears up and gets better after a few OBEs. Just keep trying, you'll get there.

Regards 
Grey

This is an OBE/AP that I had back last winter. I posted it in the "Out of Body Experience" forum  and here is the link ---

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_projection_experiences/obe_quotsorceressquot-t30950.0.html

Thanx for reading.
Grey

Hallo Kate
What you experienced could be a variation of the 'old hag' syndrome. The 'old hag' syndrome is usually a person who is in sleep paralysis experiencing a negative astral being, usually an old woman (hence 'old hag') trying to scare them. The astral being usually does not actually attack or harm the person but Does frighten them and prevents them from going OOB.
Sometimes, however, the 'old hag' is not a negative or scary being but a friendly and helpful one. Such encounters, like yours, are relatively rare

Regards  
Grey

Hi moondreamer
Your OBE was probably a true astral projection, a trip to a higher astral plane or dimension. I've had a few of those APs. They seem more 'trippy' with a lot of bright colors and unusual sounds that the more common OBE. Though these APs can be enjoyable I have never met another person or being on a higher astral plane.
Regards
Grey 

Greetings to 1 + All
Most of the places I have been to while out of body have appeared objectively real. Some of those places appeared very similar to everyday physical world locations and some places were certainly non-physical realms. Yet nearly all of them had an objective existence.
On rare occasions I would be in a place that seemed dream-like or surreal. IMO that was the result of dream imagery or distorted astral senses interfering with the OBE. I suspect that happens a lot, especially with novice projectors. In any event I would estimate that about 75 to 85 % of the unfamiliar astral realms or locations that I have visited Do have an objective existence.

Regards 
Grey

Hallo Jessikuh
I'd say that was an OBE fer sure! Nice 
That is also a good example of how unconscious desire can work. You wanted to go out of body and were expecting the laptop to be delivered. Those desires combined to induce the OBE And provide some validation to boot.

Regards 
Grey

Hallo Seventy and welcome.

You are spot on when you say that

Since Astral Projection is something that can be achieved by "customizing" or "personalizing" how you achieve it, I don't think it's a matter of HOW you reach your goal, just a matter of how ambitious you are to achieve  it.

I totally agree. The 'art' of OBE/AP is mostly whatever works best for you as an individual. I look forward to reading your post in these forums.

Regard 
Grey

Hallo Gabe
The most common experience of meeting a deceased family member during an OBE is actually during a Near death experience. If you peruse a dozen or more accounts of NDEs at nderf.org you will probably read one or more stories of someone who had a near death experience and went out of body and encountered a deceased family relative during their experience.

Regards 
Grey

Hallo Xplorer

That Lucid Dream Was close to becoming an OBE. Keep trying to go out of body. A desire to go OOB, including an unconscious desire, can eventually turn a lucid dream into an OBE, even when you least expect it.

Regards 
Grey