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There is a specific thread in this forum, or maybe in the psychic defense folder, regarding this being.  I would check that out, if I recall, a lot of people posted a lot of info on the subject.  Use the search engine.

DT

fides quaerens intellectum

What do you mean by "official Christian stance"-  you must mean a certain group, church, organization, etc.  

Although most Christians don't know much about OBE, etc. I can promise you, as a Christian, that there really aren't any official views- the only views that are official are those that come from God and the last time I checked, there really aren't that many Christians who are truly in touch with God nor themselves.

-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

I think maybe the most important lesson from your experience for all of us is the fact that you were relaxed and therefore visualization, etc. all came very naturally.  It's important to remember that it doesn't matter where the rope is, what direction it's in, etc as long as it exerts that pressure on the subtle body...

fides quaerens intellectum

Welcome!  I am glad your heart has lead you to search for more truth.  I think you will find Robert's writings to be very helpful.  Enjoy!

fides quaerens intellectum

Another book like the ones Tisha mentioned, is "Grand Illusions" by Dr. Gregory Little.  John Mack's stuff sounds a lot like Little's theory, the EMT theory, that he propones in GI.  I think it's out og print, but I found it at my library.

-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

Risu-
I emphatically delcare that "Astral Dynamics" is setting a precedent for authors whose goal is to provide useful and honest information for individuals interested in esoteric studies.

I find Robert's style refreshing and down to earth.  I don't have to use a "new age" dictionary to decipher his meaning.  I also find that everything he presents is well grounded and proven by "hard life" experience, as he puts it.  

I echo Tom's words, I too would pay double what I paid for the book.  

-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

our distinct personality, The Dreamer-Minstrel might be found in most of the thriving kingdoms of the time. You can always see the "Silver Lining" to every dark and dreary cloud. Look at the bright side is your motto and understanding why everything happens for the best is your goal. You are the positive optimist of the world who provides the hope for all humankind. There is nothing so terrible that you can not find some good within it. On the positive side, you are spontaneous, charismatic, idealistic and empathic. On the negative side, you may be a sentimental dreamer who is emotionally impractical. Interestingly, your preference is just as applicable in today's corporate kingdoms.



fides quaerens intellectum

I agree-- but in the end I do think they offer some insight.  I did once take a 600 question personality test and the results really weren't too much different than these shorter ones, so they can be accurate.  They do rely on the test takers honesty, so it's always advisable to answer them according to how you really are and not how you would like to be.

-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

I do think of myself as an experiencer, but I am not sure what the "striver" part means.  I do strive, but somehow it seems to have a negative connotation on this test- or maybe I am mistaken.  Anyhow, it is interesting.

fides quaerens intellectum

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/new.html

Kind of interesting...

fides quaerens intellectum

Jilola- does that sound right to you???

fides quaerens intellectum

I'm suprised no one else responded to this...very interesting experience indeed!  There are no easy answers to your questions.  It can be difficult for the inexperienced to differentiate between lucid dreaming and OBE, but the melting hands can be a clue that it was indeed an OBE.


Astral sight...hmmm, have you read much about it?  I recommend reading everything on the internet you can get your hands on.  The term itself, in my opinion, is loose and general.  Really, you are going to have to find out for yourself through experience!  Good luck!


fides quaerens intellectum

Interesting...out of curiosity, have you ever consciously exited before??

fides quaerens intellectum

About "guides" and "guardians"- many disagree.  I personally don't think we understand how it works, but I know that there are many interested in each of us, including individuals who are "related" to us- and I don't use the word "related" literally, I think we have friends we have never met in this life.

I am glad you found Bruce's work so enlightening.  He does represent what I believe will become the "new age" of new age...less mysticism and more objective and down to earth research, and I liiiiike it!

fides quaerens intellectum

I am amazed by how many responses this thread got in such little time.  This is obviosuly a topic that creates a lot of interest.  I would like to see people such as Robert Bruce share there experiences regarding the subject.  Thank you to all who have shared their thoughts on the subject.

fides quaerens intellectum

Overall I liked the film.  Of course it was a it dumbed down, but Shyamalan admitted this was a film for the masses.  I really enjoyed the whole struggle with faith, although I think it could have been written better the film had excellent direction and in the end did prove to be scary.

I agree with the whole notion that films such as "Signs" promote a negative view of ET life, but I think this film wa much better than say "Indepedence Day".  I can tell you one thing, it scared the heck out of my wife and sister.  hey held hands the whole time and then my wife held mine with her other hand and almost caused me to lose my circulation for the better part of the film.

Here are some critiques I got off my favorite review site,
www.rottentomatoes.com :

Shyamalan comes full circle


By Glenn Whipp
Film Critic


 


Mel Gibson, left, and Joaquin Phoenix play two brothers in "Signs."

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SIGNS

(PG-13: some frightening moments)
Starring: Mel Gibson, Joaquin Phoenix.
Director: M. Night Shyamalan.
Running time: 1 hr. 47 min.
Playing: Wide release.  
 

Despite its "War of the Worlds" setup, M. Night Shyamalan's new movie, "Signs," is much more concerned with exploring the ideas of faith and belief than it is with alien crop circles.
The movie is a superbly constructed sci-fi thriller that falters only at the end when Shyamalan should have trusted his audience instead of grandstanding his technique.

Those put off by the funereal pace of Shyamalan's last movie, "Unbreakable," should find welcome relief in the tense "Signs." Shyamalan takes more chances here and shows that he can move beyond his fondness for uninterrupted takes into territory that gives his material room to breathe and cast its menacing spell. The biggest surprise is that the man who made "The Sixth Sense" actually has a sense of humor, which he expertly uses throughout the movie to diffuse tension and alter the mood.

You won't find any of those moments in the first 10 minutes of the movie, though. "Signs" opens with James Howard Newton's score of piercing violins, evoking Bernard Herrmann and indicating that Shyamalan aims to capture Hitchcock's magic with his new movie. Indeed, the first scenes are among the film's finest -- a series of jarring, quick-cut sequences that establishes an ominous mood right out of the box.

It seems things aren't quite right at the farm of Graham Hess (Mel Gibson). Graham, a former minister, lives in rural Pennsylvania with his two children (Rory Culkin, Abigail Breslin) and his younger brother, Merrill (Joaquin Phoenix). Graham's wife was killed a few months ago in a horrible accident. As a result, Graham has renounced his faith, and although he seems calm on the surface, the man is on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

So the last thing Graham needs is a crop circle in the middle of his cornfield. But that's what happens. Who left it there and whether that entity is still hanging around in the cornfield (is there a more menacing place in movies?) remains to be seen, and Shyamalan will indeed reveal all in good time. Meanwhile, what he really wants to know is whether Graham can be a good father, not to mention a functioning human being, without any kind of faith in his life.

Shyamalan again displays an uncanny ability to draw mesmerizing performances from child actors. Just as in "The Sixth Sense" and "Unbreakable," the children here are the ones who can see and feel things that adults (in this case, the father) have forgotten. That is both a blessing and a curse, because usually these children have to go through hell in order to communicate the extraordinary to their elders.

It's a much more emotional journey than what Shyamalan has given us in his past two movies, and Gibson, stepping in for Bruce Willis, is the perfect actor to take us on the trip. Shyamalan draws upon Gibson's long- standing ability to convey wounded men seething with unexpressed rage; in this case, it's a man who can barely function because he has acknowledged all the sorrow and pain in his soul. Gibson's work is as spellbinding as anything in the movie.

Now for my one complaint. For a movie about faith, Shyamalan shows a surprising lack of confidence in his audience at the end, when it comes time to put two and two together.

Here, Shyamalan falters under the weight of his technique, and he stumbles. It's as if Shyamalan believes that he has to deliver some kind of twist -- and make sure that the audience sees it and knows it -- in order for "Signs" to be an "M. Night Shyamalan Movie."

Fact is, he's a good enough filmmaker not to need any gimmicks. But Shyamalan is going to have to realize that before his next movie, otherwise he'll have painted himself into a corner, making movies that conform to audiences' expectations and not the other way around.

An old-fashioned scary movie, one that relies on lingering terror punctuated by sudden shocks and not constant bloodshed punctuated by flying guts.
With otherworldly occurrences in farmer Mel Gibson's corn patch, "Signs" at first seems a mix of "Field of Dreams" and "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."

But when the sun sets, M. Night Shyamalan's new thriller leans toward another farmhouse and alien movie combo. It becomes "Night of the Living Dead" meets "The War of the Worlds" (both the 1953 movie and Orson Welles' radio drama).

In short, "Signs" is an old-fashioned scary movie, one that relies on lingering terror punctuated by sudden shocks and not constant bloodshed punctuated by flying guts.

Shyamalan also borrows tricks from "The Blair Witch Project," which is ironic since that was the movie the media was buzzing about exactly three years ago when his "The Sixth Sense" blew out of nowhere to become the year's surprise hit.

Gibson plays Graham Hess, a former Episcopalian priest who lost his faith six months earlier when his wife was killed in a car accident. His brother, Merrill (Joaquin Phoenix), has moved into the family farmhouse to look after Graham and his children, Morgan (Rory Culkin) and Bo (Abigail Breslin).

The family's overall emotional state is fragile already. The last thing they need is for crop circles to appear in their cornfield, which is how "Signs" begins.

Graham and the local deputy, Officer Paski (Cherry Jones), dismiss the crop circles as the work of pranksters. But soon similar signs appear in India, and then the rest of the world. Experts believe these are mapping devices made by an alien advance team. Everyone asks the question, "Are these E.T.s friendly or hostile?"

This worldwide panic intersects with Graham's crisis of faith. Dust on his bedroom wall shows where a crucifix used to hang. Father Hess no longer believes in God, just coincidence. "Couldn't you at least pretend to be like you used to be?" Merrill asks as the news outside grows grimmer.

Most alien invasion movies, especially "Independence Day," view their stories on a global scale. "Signs" never ventures outside Graham's rural Pennsylvania community. As he already has done with ghosts ("Sixth Sense") and superheroes ("Unbreakable"), Shyamalan treats his fantastic material realistically. He asks how an unremarkable family, already beset with ordinary problems, would react during a worldwide cataclysm.

The Hess clan watches the invasion unfold on CNN. Mysterious lights appear over Mexico City. During a boy's birthday party in Brazil, a frightening green figure is captured on home video darting across background. Meanwhile, the family dog goes mad and Morgan hears unearthly transmissions on Bo's old baby monitor.

When the invaders make their move, the family boards itself inside the farmhouse and hopes for the best. All they can do is hope, because prayer no longer is allowed.

Shyamalan weaves a terrifying atmosphere with low-angled cameras and languorous tracking shots. He uses sound effects expertly. Several times he makes the audience leap with a dog bark that's cranked up to 11.

From "Blair Witch" Shyamalan has learned to disorient viewers by turning away from the action. He focuses on a flashlight rolling along the cellar floor as the unseen monster attacks.

Shyamalan earns every scream by grounding the story in relationships and performances. In a single scene with the driver (played by Shyamalan) who killed his wife, Gibson shows more range than he usually does in an entire film. Shyamalan draws comic relief from Culkin, whose character treats the alien threat analytically. Young Breslin ethereally deadpans such dialogue as "Daddy, there's a monster outside my room. Can I have a glass of water?" and "I dreamed this."

In three films Shyamalan has developed a cinematic voice as distinctive as Spielberg's or Hitchcock's, his two clearest inspirations. While Hitchcock focused on the persecution of innocent men and Spielberg's recurring theme is the child searching for a missing parent figure, Shyamalan creates supernatural thrillers with spiritual centers.

He also has become famous for surprise endings (including "Wide Awake," which preceded "Sixth Sense"), so most people will walk into "Signs" wondering if it will end with another corker of a revelation. The safest thing to say is, "Not exactly."

With "Signs" the journey itself is more intense than the final few minutes.





A higher power
"Signs," the latest supernatural chiller from M. Night Shyamalan, shows once again he's a master of terror. But he wants to be a shaman, not just a showman.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Andrew O'Hehir



Aug. 2, 2002  |  M. Night Shyamalan does spooky thrills and chills better than any other Hollywood filmmaker to emerge in the last two decades. If he's not quite the legitimate heir to Alfred Hitchcock and the young Steven Spielberg that he thinks he is (and he's not, at least not yet), Shyamalan will nonetheless pack the multiplexes this weekend with hordes of eager victims ready to scream and leap from their seats for his new "Signs."


Yeah, Shyamalan knows how to scare us, all right. (Even on a scratched-up DVD from my neighborhood video store, "The Sixth Sense" had me pulling the couch cushions over my face.) And on that front "Signs" will not disappoint: We've got a wounded American family, an isolated farmhouse, a cornfield full of hieroglyphic crop circles, and some things that go bump in the night and don't seem all that friendly. Shyamalan is already a master of such tricks as odd low-angle and high-angle shots, subtly distressing details (a swing seat wobbling when there's no wind) and overly amplified ordinary sound (the woman sitting next to me squealed every time the family's German shepherd barked).



But what's scaring him? All three of Shyamalan's big-budget Hollywood movies (also including "Unbreakable") are tremendous mood pieces that build an intensely creepy atmosphere, winding the audience up to a pitch of near hysterical suspense, and then squander it all in promiscuous geysers of sentimentality and random New Age brain fog. Two things come to mind: One, Shyamalan is a clever craftsman trying to conceal the fact that he has nothing to say. Two, he's scared of God.


It wouldn't seem that both things could be true, but given that "Signs" is a movie about faith and miracles, maybe they are. This film flirts with religiosity more ardently than either "The Sixth Sense" or "Unbreakable," but finally never gets out of that pop-spirituality territory Shyamalan has made so uniquely his own. It might be a better movie if it did -- if we believed that its creator had a specifically Christian or Hindu or Muslim or, I don't know, Zoroastrian point of view from which to address the Great Questions of Existence. (It may or may not be relevant to observe that Shyamalan himself is a product of two cultures; he was born in India and raised in suburban Philadelphia, where he went to an upscale Episcopalian school.) Instead, we get vague, pseudo-universal nostrums: The world divides into two kinds of people, those who believe in coincidences and those who believe in signs.




 

Capote's 'In Cold Blood' -- in Salon's 'Masterpiece' presented by Lexus




Start your Summer Fling @ Matchmaker

 
 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Signs"

Directed by M. Night Shyamalan
Starring Mel Gibson, Joaquin Phoenix, Rory Culkin, Abigail Breslin



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Graham Hess (Mel Gibson) claims to be a member of the first group, a hardheaded realist who thinks we're all alone in a purposeless universe. He's an Episcopalian priest who abandoned his faith after his wife was killed by a dozing driver and now lives with his brother Merrill (Joaquin Phoenix) and his kids Morgan (Rory Culkin) and Bo (Abigail Breslin) on their Pennsylvania farm.


When huge flattened circle patterns begin to appear in the Hess cornfield and thousands of other places around the world, followed rapidly by the arrival of floating lights in the sky over the major cities of the globe, we know what's coming: Graham must engage in a manly wrestling match with his inner demons and his Creator, and we're trapped in a remake of about seven sci-fi movies at once. The central narrative mystery of "Signs," rather disappointingly, isn't the question of who's behind the crop circles (that becomes clear pretty fast) but of whether Graham will recover his faith, learn to love life again, and weep masculine tears while hugging his children. (You get one guess.)


The wholesale homage to earlier films found in "Signs" is a new and not necessarily welcome development in Shyamalan's work. Those viewers who notice how much of the movie is imported from "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," "Night of the Living Dead," "War of the Worlds," "Poltergeist" and "The Birds" (not to mention "Field of Dreams") may find themselves distracted from the things in it that actually work.


Shyamalan has a justified reputation as a fine director of actors, and he gets a fresh performance from Gibson here as a reticent, depressed widower whose love for his family is nearly matched by his bitterness; the star's trademark twinkle and action-hero mannerisms are largely absent. As in "The Sixth Sense," the director has a distinctive feel for the terrors of childhood. Culkin is the movie's linchpin as Morgan, the first member of the family to understand what's about to happen to them, and when Breslin, an unsettling little cherub, is onscreen you can't keep your eyes off her.


For the first half-hour or so, the story is brilliantly handled, even if almost all its elements belong to the American-nightmare back catalog of Spielberg and Stephen King. When Gibson chases a mysterious intruder through the 9-foot corn stalks, the ground mist, strange chattering noises, and half-glimpsed maybe-critters will have you hopping like a caffeinated bunny rabbit. There's also an unstable comic undercurrent to the film that sometimes clicks, as when Morgan persuades both his sister and his uncle to wear aluminum-foil hats that make them look like overgrown Hershey's Kisses, "so the aliens can't read our minds."


But good as Shyamalan is at atmosphere and extracting downbeat performances from stars, he's fatally weak when it comes to pacing and expository dialogue. We seem to go in a matter of minutes from bizarre signals coming in on a leftover baby monitor Morgan is using as a walkie-talkie (a Spielberg-King device if I've ever seen one) to a full-on attack of the Green Uglies. Shyamalan can offer nothing to convey the sense of worldwide calamity except some badly simulated TV news coverage that suggests he hasn't watched CNN since at least the Gulf War.


I shouldn't get specific about what actually happens in the latter stages of "Signs," except that the family locks itself in the basement while the Whoevers try to get in, as in any number of previous horror films, and that there's a lot of flatulent talk about prayer and miracles. (Graham swears he no longer believes in them, although of course his laconic brother -- well played by Phoenix as a good-natured, washed-up ballplayer -- knows better, as do we.) And that when it comes right down to it I've seen better costumes at office Halloween parties.


Shyamalan's title is itself an overly labored double-entendre. The crop circles are apparently road signs meant for the arriving spaceships, but the word also has a specific meaning in Christian eschatology: Signs can be miracles to show that God loves us, or indications that the End is at hand. Once again, the filmmaker gets incredibly wobbly at the end of his story, and his resolution of both the alien incursion and of Graham's crisis of faith feels more like a cheap trick than the product of a genuine belief in anything at all. Shyamalan is a considerable talent, but he's become too powerful too young. The sign I discern hanging over his career at the moment reads Wrong Way.



salon.com

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Andrew O'Hehir is the editor of Salon Arts & Entertainment.

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fides quaerens intellectum

I brought up the same question a while back, so I agree with Tisha- check it out because a lot of knowledgable individuals chimed in with invaluable info.

fides quaerens intellectum

Thank you for sharing your account.  I found it fascinating... there are a few threads here in the forums regarding abductions and OBE, you might want to check them out (use the search engine on the site)...

fides quaerens intellectum

Clandestino-  what does your screen name mean?  Just curious...

fides quaerens intellectum

I am a bit of a film buff and I am about to go see the film (in 45 mins!) so I will post my "review" later.  

-D

fides quaerens intellectum

Do you really think that one design looks like the "grid" in the astral?

Anyway, I think it's obvious that while one image might give a small hint to one's personality, it's not going to indicate what kind of personality someone truly has- no test probably can.  I am going to look for another test, one that asks a series of questions or something.  This has, however, been interesting.



fides quaerens intellectum

Jeff is right- check out the novel "What Dreams May Come" (it's a lot better than the film).

According to my understanding there are various explanations to the belief that spirits get "stuck"-

#1- Some individuals in fact do linger.  After passing away, many- especially those who have little to no spiritual understanding and others who have terrible addictions to physical "pleasures" such as drugs, sex, etc.- in fact do linger.  Others do not want to leave, actually the desire to not leave is probably one of the biggest reasons they linger.  Check out Robert Monroe's work to find out more about this.

#2- There are many negative entities that never had and never will have a physical body.  These "negs" as they are often called by some, stick arounfd making life tough on everyone- even if we don't consciously feel theier negativitity, they are indeed real and they try to hurt us.

#3- I was going to write something here, but I can't remember what I was going to say- so maybe someone else can fill in the blank.

-D.

fides quaerens intellectum

Yes, I find snippets such as this one very interesting because when someone like this decides to share his or her thoughts and ideas regarding the phenomena you don't find as much "baggage".  IN other words, most people in this forum, for example, have read a great deal regarding OBE, etc. and therefore have a great deal of other people's ideas stored in their minds...and sometime these conceptions regarding the nature of existence are biased and even flawed to the point of fallacy.  Anyway, I thought this was a fun little exerpt from the life of some young man who obviously had a spontaneous OBExcursion.
-D.

fides quaerens intellectum

I just want to make one more comment in regards to everything that has been discussed in regards to to this subject.  I am a young man and was recently married.  I love my wife more than anything but God.  We have made covenants/promises to strive to progress spiritually and we pray, meditate and study together everyday.  We imagine our relationship as a trinagle, with God at the top point and both of us as the bottom points; as we strive to understand and love God more we find ourselves moving towards him and if can imagine, eventually it brings us closer together until we are one.

We are in love physically, mentally and spiritually.  We have decided that nothing can come between us.  We readily admit that we have faults but we also know that part of the challenge of this life is finding someone to love and then doing what it takes to make it together and hopefully raise a family.  

We did not have a "wordly" ceremony when we were married, in fact the words "till death do us part" were not uttered.  We were married in a sacred place and were married together for time and all eternity.  Everything about the ceremony pionted to the eternal, spiritual worlds that await us.

Yes, what Tisha said regarding uncontrollable dreams/OBE's is true, but I love my wife with all that I am and always strive to respect her and deserve the undying love she has for me.  

-Daniel



fides quaerens intellectum

Tisha hit the nail on the head.  In my experience, mushrooms teach you not to take them.  They do indeed have something to teach, but most people who do use them do it in the wrong state of mind.  Meditation and the Holy Spirit will teach you more in one minute than the wild psychadelic beings of this planet can teach you in years.

fides quaerens intellectum