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quote:what is the difference between the etheric and astral planes? i hear many different things and i wanna know what the truth is

The truth is that there is probably no concrete truth, just perception. I am seeing it as the etheric being that which is closest to the physical. The overlapping of the astral and physical. In this area one finds the energy body. The etheric plane could be thought of as the Real Time Zone. The astral is farther from the physical. I am not so sure that there are any kind of boundaries that separate them.

Robert Bruce's methods give you a higher chance of projecting into the RTZ, but that is just a chance and nothing is guaranteed. Astral Phasing, look in the Astral Consciousness forum, gives you a higher chance of projecting to the Astral.

Having read what everyone has posted here and thinking about it the past few days, I feel compelled to write this. I think that everyone is correct. I have learned from the posts and came to the following based on the posts and what I have experienced.

First let me define these two terms.

Sexual desire -  the desire to have sex, lust

Sexual energy - energy generated in the groin area (chakra) from sexual desire, either by thoughts, images, physical stimulation, reading, etc.

It all does start out with sexual desire, be it from just thoughts of having sex, seeing something exciting, physical stimulation, just anything that gets you sexually excited, generates sexual desire. Sexual desire in turn generates sexual energy. This energy is in the groin area or chakra. Left here it will build until it is too great and released. This does not have to be so though. Turning your mind to your energy body, you can draw the sexual energy up much in the same way you do with NEW. The problem is that sexual energy is rather hot and volatile (distracting as well), especially to someone who is new at working with it. You need to focus on moving your attention and energy out of the groin and up to the higher chakras. Passing it through the higher chakras, or just moving it up your spine and back down to the sub navel storage, can change this energy dramaticly. Changing it from the hot and volatile energy to more refined yet powerful energy.

Now we are more than just physical and energy. At this point I think one has connected with the physical and etheric. But to truly experience this to the fullest you must connet to the astral, which is the emotions. Emotions are important and should not be underestimated either with this or any astral work. Much like Centa Five described the astral sex experience, this is what one aims for in this, that kind of connection. This can be with another being or the universe itself. This comes from love. So you must put love into the practice to experience love. You reap what you sow. This is important with the emotions. You put in hate, you will reap it and more than what you put in. So I strongly suggest only positive thoughts and emotions.

When doing these things on each level, physical, energy work on the etheric, and emotion on the astral, then you are connected, or a better word is probably aware of all three at the same time. This is truly a wonderful experience (understatement).

Now I have never tried this, but I think that if you reach this state where you are aware of all three planes, then you should be able to lose your awareness on two of them (the physical and which ever other one you wish) to become fully conscious of just one, be it etheric or astral. Now the reason I have never done this is because the state of being aware of all three through this method is so ... well it is hard to describe. It is very pleasurable, loving, this feeling of being one with the universe. It really leaves you with no desire, just this ... well imagine how it would feel to be one with the universe, would you desire anything? But whenever I start this out, I have never had the intent to project, so that could make a difference. If you have the intent to do something, then you should be able to. Just keep it in mind when you reach this state. That is my thought. I may experiment with it some day to see if it works. But to me the connection is just as important as any other form of astral exploration.

Do a search, as this has been discussed before. Or read Astral Dynamics as it is discussed in the book.

Robert Bruce says that people born with sight but later losing it can see on the astral. People blind since birth do not see on the astral for they do not know visual representations. In other words, vision is a learned skill. Those that go to the astral can sense things just as easily, if not more so, than one with vision they just do not see things visually.

T_Kman0610, if you learn some basic photoshop skills you will see how easy it is to manipulate a picture such as this. One of the dead give aways is that the creature is in the same position as the other picture. Something not mentioned, I think something of that size would weight a decent amount. Sitting on branches that thin, either the branches would have to be way up in the tree bending down, or the branches would be bent down to the ground if as low as they appear. If they were high branches bent that far down, I think about anyone would notice them moving irraticly trying to support such a creature, reguardless of how dark it might have been. And why would a creature be that far out on such thin branches anyway?

The times I have consciously projected I have done it laying on my back. The first time I projected, not knowing what was going on, I did it in class sitting a chair. I think I was leaning on the table on my elbows. It was in science class too.

I don't really think that position is that important. I think as long as you can get in the right state you can do it from any position.

It sounds like you might have well been on your way. I think the problem was that you let your self be distracted by the sensations and by the noises of the other people. You need to learn to ignore what is going on on the physical and try not to be overwhelmed by the sensations. Try to be passive and just go with it and relax. I think one of the big downfalls is that people start thinking too much about the sensations and let them distract them from projecting. Try to just let it come, fall into it. Increased heart beat and breathing are usually not your physical body but vibrations.

quote:When men become aroused (I think this is for men only..) usually through visual imagrey like porn or something, it triggers a thought and emotion. These thoughts and emotions are brought into the physical through a cemical (I don't know the name) to produce the feeling that "I like looking at this" or something else associated with sex or sexual desire. The chemical is mentally addictive, so once introdced to the body, the person then has a desire to bring back this chemical by either looking at images, or going further. Men usually prefer visual imagrey for arousal while women usually prefer reading.

I think that is a stereotype. I have talked to many men and women about sex and masterbation and in all honestly it does not seem to be as clear cut as you make it out to be. Many men want the emotions with sex and enjoy reading and many women are turned on by visual images. Stereotypes are rarely true.

quote:Many females do not do it if you compare it to males.

I am not so sure about this. Maybe men are just more willing to admit it.

Arie, might I suggest looking into some Tantric or Taoist sexual practices. It might change your view on sex and masterbation when you see that sex and spirituality can and do go hand in hand. Be sure to find some good sources though and not just the "Do it all night" stuff.

While religion and spirituality are two different things, I realize that some people use them together. There is nothing wrong with that, but not every one does. So not everyone thinks that there is such a thing as sin. You may find something that is not best for you, but I that does not mean it is not for everyone else.

As you might have guess by now I do not think there is anything wrong with masterbation. In fact I think that it is a productive and positive part of our sexuality. I encourage everyone to do it. If you don't know how to please yourself, how do you expect anyone else to know how to?

quote:Society gives you the right to use your penis...not nature.

I really cannot see the smallest bit of logic to this, no offense. So if you can, please explain. Humans are part of nature, we follow its cycles, we live with it/on it/ off of it/etc. Part of nature is the cycle of life and death. All things are born, live, consume, die, and are consumed (though some humans try to take themself out of that last part). Reproduction is part of the cycle, but not a necessary part on an individual level (you can live without it, but this does not take into account any health issues) but very necessary on a species level. Nature grant all things a sex drive in order to ensure that the species will go on. So it is only natural for humans to desire sex. Fighting it is going against nature and can be very frustrating. As humans, the way most of our societies are currently, it is not always possible for whatever reason to satisfy that desire with a partner or when we desire it. That does not make the desire go away. As you have pointed out, Arie, going without does not make it go away either. So does one go around frustrated all the time? Or does one answer the call of nature and do what comes natural, relieving the frustration and allow yourself to be more productive? Or does one use what nature has given for their own productive purposes (energy work, healing, spirituality, etc.)?

Looking at things from the creation view, the divine created nature (and humans since they are part of nature) so the divine is represented in nature. The divine instilled in all living things the sex drive, and thus sex, masterbation, etc is a gift from the divine and not a wrong.

quote:Another way to prove this is prostate cancer since you brought it up...if nature bestows rights on people...then doesn't nature giving us physical diseases that go against our right to survive and the right to happiness?

Nature does not treasure one species over another. Diseases are caused by other living things, bateria, viruses, etc. Those living things strive to live and reproduce like all living things. It is nothing personal against humans, it is just other living things doing what they do. Which is actually important because it can lead to the death of humans, which is part of the cycle. Death is an important part of nature's cycle. Not all diseases kill, but I do not see those as being design to just cause suffering. It is just the microbes doing what they do to live.

quote:Are you implying Logic that masturbation lowers the chances of prostate cancer? lol

And yes, there have been studies that show that masterbation/sex can help prevent prostate cancer.

I thought it was about advanced astral projection and that the kundalini book is sort of in limbo. I would like to see the kundalini book finished some day.

No problem, chupacabra. I think it is an interesting animal.

You are not suppose to use sexual desire to project. I don't see how you could. But you can use sexual energy. It envolves transforming it from something so volatile into more refined energy. Now I have never actually used any sexual method to project, but during such practices I have felt like I could leave my body but I choose not to.

When looking into the blackness you have to make sure your eyes are relax. Don't really look with your eyes, just sort of gaze.

I do not know how important visualization is. Robert Bruce's method does not use it, so if you have trouble with it I don't think it is really necessary. But practicing it cannot hurt.

If you view sex only as a physical act then I think it is most likely that any thoughts of it will ground you to your physical body.

Sex can be used to aid in AP, energy work, and many other things by working with the energy. If you are uncomfortable with this idea then either you have to change your view or it is just not for you.

I don't know if you can have an actual sexual experience on the astral that is like it is on the physical. I would say that most likely it will draw your attention more to the physical and cause the experience to end, as many have experienced.

What if both are true? What if neither are true? What if the physical is an illusion?

Some pictures and info on a real devil!

http://www.dpiwe.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/WebPages/BHAN-5358KH?open

quote:Originally posted by jc84corvette

quote:Originally posted by skymageinfinity

If you must know, you Yanks are too busy looking at porno sites.

Yes sterotype. The only people that look at porn sites are teens. Grant it that other ages do, but teens look at it the most. And besides that, they do not look at it all day, we have other thigns to do.

I ain't no teenager. Oh ... ummm ... [:I]

quote:Originally posted by jc84corvette

Hey thats why some thigns go green when I look at blood for a wile.

You sit around looking at blood for extended periods of time?

It sounds like your third eye chakra is becoming active.

quote:Originally posted by askeltal

maybe they think im evil" ...  i dont see whats evil in that.  My life in the physical world isnt much evil ...

Maybe they are waiting for you to see beyond ideas such as good and evil.

I suggest to not actively seek help from another. Any such guides will present themself when they wish for whatever reason. And they can do it subtly so pay attention, but at the same time don't take every little thing as something from a guide. Just relax, do what you want, and when you need help you will receive it.

You do not have to visualize anything if you are bad at it. Try just looking into the darkness of your closed eyes and see what you can see. Just relax, be passive, and watch the darkness.

The astral is a lot more than just a visual experience.

Meedan, I am atleast glad that you have used logic to come to your conclusion. I have thought about it as well and used logic but have come to a different conclusion. I was not implying that you personally are arrogant or foolish for your conclusion, but I do think the idea itself is arrogant. But we are all free to explore all ideas and I respect that.

Interesting post, Tayesin. Thank you for sharing.

quote:Originally posted by Meedan


I don't know how you came to your conclusions, but logic has proven to me that nature WAS designed for our souls to appreciate, study and learn from. Since you 'believe' in reincarnation I assume that you think there is a creator who established this system and the universe. Would the creator create nature for no reason?

No offense but it seems to me rather arrogant to think that everything was created for humans.

quote:The animals ARE A PART of nature so I don't see how it can be designed FOR them.

Humans are likewise part of nature, even though we try to distance ourselves from it. Kill all the trees, no oxygen, no humans. Humans are part of nature and its cycles.

Humans, plants, animals, all of nature are one. Neither is more important than the other. Remove one part and the whole is changed.

If I believed in reincarnation (which I really have no idea so I don't believe either way really) then I see no reason why one could not reincarnate as an animal, plant, alien, or whatever. All have something to teach us. Living their experiences can teach us a lot.

quote:Originally posted by true_witch

I have to say women are more powerful, because they are more represented in magickal religions.  The godess is more prominent than the god, even though they are supposed to be equal.

How does being more represented and more prominent equal more power? Power in number? But that does not mean that the individual is more powerful. Being seen and known does not make one powerful, atleast magic wise.