Messages

I'm sorry I didn't explain myself better, I mean regarding this italian doctor who claimed to have imprgnated a woman with a cloned human fetus.  It was supposed to have been done about 3-5 months ago for a rich middle-easter sheik or something.  Anyway, I have heard it wasn't true but there was info. floating around in the media (news tv, internet, etc)

fides quaerens intellectum

cainam-

Hey, I am glad you like the latin quote. I actually found that when I was studying the philosopher...man, I can't think of his name right now.  Well, anyway, I speak italian and because it is so closely related to latin I have come to love reading and studying latin, just as a hobby as I am FAR from being able to read it fluently.  I also think it just sounds cool and esoteric.

ANyway, in response to Tyrone- I think we are our bodies.  Just because our physical body is temporary doesn't make it any less ours or "us"...we have many bodies and it just happens to be the most low vibratory/"crude" body we have and it is of coure vitally important to us because it is the vehicle for our spirits in this physical world.  



fides quaerens intellectum

"Out of the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses will every word be established"- I ike that, isn' that from the Bible?

Hey Focus, where have you been???

fides quaerens intellectum

For more info regarding this exact subject go to the search engine in the site and type in "projection noises)- also, there is another thread regarding this subject going on right now...I can't remember which forum however, but it should be easy enough to find.

fides quaerens intellectum

What you experienced sounds like an OBE turned LD or vice versa...or somewhere in between.  Things like this are so subjective and abstract it's truly difficult to tell you what you experienced.  On;ly further experiences like this will be able to help YOU know...and the more you inform yourself through reading and meditation the more likely you will be to distinguish between the variety of phenomena.

fides quaerens intellectum

What these people have said reflects their ignorance o the subject.  To give you an idea of how absurd this really is you need to remember that most of us spend time in the mental/astral planes at night when we sleep, at least to  some degree.  

This would be like a reculse who never left her house being afraid to go outside because she might run into criminals and unfriendly people....

fides quaerens intellectum

I believe this is possible, for when in the astral and especially the "mental realms" we create, at least at times, our entire enviornment...many times doing so in order to understand or better "get a grip" on the abstract nature of it all.  I remember RObert Bruce himself writing about a house he was in and saw/expereinced incredible things.

fides quaerens intellectum

Anyone heard anything in regards to this??

fides quaerens intellectum

I see your point, but I must agree with what RObert wrote on this thread...

fides quaerens intellectum

Has anybody read "What Dreams May Come?"  I would like to hear a review from someone within the forum.

fides quaerens intellectum

ACOUSTIC SENSATIONS AND VIBRATIONS

Acoustic inner perceptions can be of different origins. For that reason they may be classified into three groups:

Voices
Songs, chorals, instrumental music
Noise and tones

Voices which are heard in OBE-prestage can be of a transcendental character or hypnagogic. If these voices are transcendental they never lead to OBEs. Such voices heard in this state are frequently indicative of low inner energy (i.e., overtired).

Songs, chorals, and instrumental music are signs of a higher level of consciousness. As such, they are often indicative of an incipient OBE.

"In one case I heard a distinct, low intensity, ringing sound. On some occasions I have heard music which seemed to come from a distant location. It was very much like a choir but of a quality I am unable to describe. It is perhaps the most beautiful music I have ever heard and the effect was to deepen my relaxation." (Lepak)

Noises and tones can be hypnagogic. They may be experienced in various ways. These other kinds of sounds are of great interest for OBE-ing.

"There are other sensations, most notably sounds, that I have noticed. Some of them may seem rather strange at first regard. The nature of these sounds may be linked to one´s own personality, experiences and associations. In one case, at the culmination of the intense vibrations, I heard a sound that I instantly associated with a paper bag being slowly torn. In fact, while it was happening, I was able to rationalize that it reminded me of a lightweight bag, very unlike a grocery sac. The analogy of the tearing paper with the release of the astral body is obvious. Under the same conditions I once heard a loud bell, like a fire bell at a school." (Lepak)

"I once heard a buzzing sound and wondered what someone was doing flying an ultralight plane at this hour." (Lepak)



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VIBRATIONS AND SOUNDS RELATED TO OBE'S (THEORIES)

In this section we discuss some possible interpretations regarding the origin of various sounds, vibrations and associated body-dissociation effects.

The fact that sound perception very often leads to OBE's or other exceptional states of consciousness has been observed in the past. Hence, many shamanistic and mystic techniques have developed which were based on acoustics. Sound-techniques have been of high importance for shamanism, mystic aspects of all established religions, as well as witchcraft, magic and yoga.



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Materialistic Interpretations of Vibrations and Kundalini

From the different materialistic models explaining the origin of sounds and vibrations only the model of Bentov will be dealt with in this article.

"Micromotion of the body as a factor in the development of the nervous system", by Itzhak Bentov in: "Kundalini, Evolution and Enlightment, ed. John White, Anchor Books, New York, 1979, page 316-339

 "As an analogy a seated subject can be represented by a mass on a spring : the spring is the spinal column and the mass is the weight of the upper part of the body. Upon the ejection of blood from the heart, this mass is set into motion and starts oscillating at its natural frequency when the person is in a deep meditative state." (Bentov, p. 319).  

"The regular movement of the body indicates that a standing wave is set up in the vascular system, specifically in the aorta. When the left ventricle of the heart ejects blood the aorta, being elastic, balloons out just distal to the ventricle. Under these conditions, a pressure pulse travels down along the aorta. When the pressure pulse reaches the iliac bifurcation, part of it rebounds and starts traveling up the aorta." (Bentov, p. 312-322).



Vibrations are reflected at the skull or inner surfaces of the brain. Resulting frequencies are in the range between 7 Hz and 12000 Hz. Reflected vibrations are enhanced and focused, resulting in locations having different energy densities, stimulating special areas of the brain.  

The emotional and visual sensations caused by overtones and Bija Mantras (nasal sounds) are explained in this way as well. Acoustical sensations are explained physically by direct sensory perception via the auditory system. The physical theory includes all kinds of frequencies - felt or heard - since it states that slow rhythms (as caused by the heart beat for instance) are transformed in the head to vibrations in high frequency ranges.



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Esoteric Mechanistic Interpretation

According to the esoteric mechanistic interpretation the subtle body gets out of alignment with the physical body, resulting from desynchronization of both bodies. The degree of dissociation depends on the amplitude or strength of vibrations. The amplitude of vibrations can be increased actively by imagination. The final step of body separation is done by will or by automatisms induced by autosuggestions before, or at the beginning of, the OBE-dissociation procedure.



fides quaerens intellectum

When I have projected I feel the vibrations and it sounds like a deafening crackling sounds- similar to paper being torn, but the sounds amplified...I think it's a very subjective thing...

I think the following article goes into projection sounds a little bit:

Miscellaneous Astral Case Histories[credits]
by Robert Bruce

Waking Paralysis Related Case Histories:

#1: Ms. E:


Ms. E.   I had another spontaneous, unwanted, OBE a few days ago. I was sitting in for a Maths lecture to take a nap (I don't take Mathematics) and was feeling very cold, rather hungry and miserable as I tried to fall asleep. Since I felt guarded trying to nap, I was thus fully conscious while trying to sleep. Then it happened again! That inexorable "falling" or "drifting apart" sensation and before I knew it, I was racing forward at this crazy speed. Goodness know to where.
I 'instinctively' knew I was floating a few feet in the air, and I could 'actually feel' my astral body being whizzed away from my physical!!!! At that moment I thought unhappily to myself - "oh, no, its happening again!!" Then I tried to get out of it, pulling and dragging myself back mentally, but my physical body was absolutely paralyzed (once again).
I could "see" what was happening all through this! It was rather bright (like the lecture theatre at the time), but greyish with "stars" and bright dots everywhere, and I was in a tunnel of some kind. I was still very aware of being inside my body which was slumped over the desk, while about 70% of my consciousness resided in my projected body. I could also see myself whizzing away from where I actually was, seen from inside my physical body, into this awesome tunnel. At first I only whizzed headfirst into the tunnel, and I knew I was only looking ahead. After a second or two, when I desperately tried to look back at where my desk was, I turned my head around, but then as I looked back, I realized to my absolute astonishment that I could see 'all' around me at once, all at the same time!! My attention was focused on looking behind me, but I could also see all around myself at the same time. The best analogy I could use was that I was some sort of ball (of light???!!) and could see all around myself. I felt smaller than usual, definitely weightless, and much less clumsy.

My Comments:

The above case history shows a very interesting paralysis-release-projection experience, with a mixed bag of sensations and perceptions. These came from a fully paralyzed physical body as well as from its projected double, both at the same time. While no vibrations were evident here, it does show the warning signs of the onset of a waking paralysis episode and the link between this and spontaneous projection (the sinking feeling marking separation and exit) from Ms. E's deeply relaxed but awake state. A tube-type of projection exit occurred here (probably brow centre related) against Ms. E's will. Ms. E also experienced the mind-split effect (dual existence) first-hand, and was aware of existing in two bodies at the same time. Ms. E was fully aware of being out of her body, but was also aware of being inside her paralyzed physical body slumped at her desk. Astral sight was also experienced from within the paralyzed physical/etheric body, as was spherical vision from within the projected double.


#2: Mr. T.S.:


Mr. TS: Just before all the strange sensations, I was focusing on my body, trying to bring each part into a deeper level of relaxation, for a planned projection attempt. I then felt a numb pressure, a strong but gentle force pressing into the centre of my forehead. This was quite relaxing and soon my whole forehead began tingling. I tried to expand that feeling through my body, moving it down into my chest. As I did I felt a strong wave of vertigo - like I had lost my sense of up and down. I also felt rather nauseous and began to feel very hot. I felt very uncomfortable at this point and tried to remove the covers and get my bearings, but I found I was paralyzed and couldn't move a muscle. It was as though my body weighed a ton. After a few minutes and a lot of effort I suddenly regained motion, and as soon as I did all the strange sensations vanished. Other than the heat (and to a degree the nausea), it was not an uncomfortable episode, in fact the sensations were rather exciting.

My comments:

While there were no feelings of fear, dread or presence in the above case history, there was excitement and total physical paralysis, plus other sensations associated with a projection being in full progress during this whole waking paralysis episode. The pressure and tingling this man felt in his brow area point to his brow centre being very active during this projection, indicating this is probably his most naturally active primary energy centre. I'd say he succeeded with his projection attempt, but lost the shadow memories held by his projected double during reintegration. I would say the moment of separation was marked by the wave of vertigo he felt. His experience was centred in his physical/etheric body the whole time, creating strong physical memories (excitement) which would have contributed to the failed shadow memory download during reintegration. The nausea and heat he experienced, while unusual for a projection attempt, are typical of heavy energy movement sensations coursing through the physical/etheric body. The discomfort these sensations caused indicates energy blockages and narrowed energy pathways are present. These sensations would, I suspect, gradually ease during subsequent projections, through the forced type of energetic development this causes.


#3: Ms. P:


Ms. P: Paralysis episodes have been happening to me since I was a small child (I'm 40'ish now) and they seem to happen in "clusters". In other words, I might not have anything for months, and then many will happen in a short period of time. They usually come during my sleep at night, waking me up, but have also happened while trying to nap during the day.
I actually projected once during the day, which was a wonderful experience and quite different from the paralysis I normally get.
Here's what usually happens: during sleep, my normal dream state seems to take on a bizarre or sinister twist and I'm overcome with fear - because I know what comes next! The dream (of whatever) ceases, and the vibrations start. As they increase in intensity, I find myself completely heavy and totally paralyzed in my physical body...and at the same time very frightened. Sometimes it feels as though an evil entity is trying to overtake my body. At this point I feel a primal scream coming from the very depths of my soul, as if to save myself. Apparently, I do actually yell out and cry at times, as my husband reports that he frequently has to wake me because I'm having a bad dream. The moment he touches me, or I am able to move even a little finger, its all over. But I am left with a sense of dread and uneasiness, although I am then wide awake. And the funny thing is, if I go right back to sleep, it will happen again...as if the first episode wasn't complete.
I've tried everything over the years, including fighting it, accepting and relaxing into it, surrounding myself with white light, praying before sleep, commanding it to stop, and actually wanting and trying to consciously project -- nothing works. Those times in which I really try and relax into it and just let it happen seem to be the most frustrating, because it feels like such an effort and struggle, and then nothing happens - I just end up getting paralyzed again.
The most dramatic time, the time that I did get out, was quite pleasant, although it was extremely brief and during the daytime. This particular time, I was napping in my bed during the day, and suddenly the vibrations started. This time was different, though, I seemed to roll over right through the frame of my waterbed, and it felt as if I was hovering right by the side of my bed. But I didn't feel completely out, it seemed as if the lower part of my body was still attached. I remember looking at my night stand, the floor, and other things in the immediate area. They seemed to "glow" with a blue colour. Then I was able to lift my hand and look at it, and as I did, I realized that this was the "real" thing, and I felt very happy and excited...then it was over. For the rest of the day, I walked around on cloud nine, almost as if this were concrete proof to me that there is an afterlife. I was very elated.

My Comments:

This above case history shows fairly severe and repeating waking paralysis. Ms. P appears to have fairly strong natural projection abilities, but has obviously become intimidated by the fear her frequent bouts of paralysis are causing; which is quite understandable. It is also quite possible that emotional feedback is playing a significant part here. This is compounding her natural fears, causing an emotional tug-of-war between her dream mind, etheric mind and her projected double, in varying combinations. The latter part of this letter also shows the marked differences between night and day projection, and how much less fear is caused during daylight projections. She thoroughly enjoyed her one remembered daytime projection and experienced no fear at all. This strongly suggests that her natural fears are contributing to or even creating the underlying conditions which are causing her waking paralysis episodes. Of note, her hand did not melt when she looked at it, but it is possible she did not look at it for long enough to cause the melting hands effect.



Miscellaneous Case Histories:


#1:  Ms. S:


A - Ms. S: I got up early one morning to go to the bathroom. When I returned to bed my body felt tingly and fuzzy all over. I lay down and after about ten seconds I felt a strong sinking feeling. When the sinking feeling stopped I felt as if I was moving inside of myself. I then had the most distinct feeling of leaving my body and then of hovering in the air above my bed. I felt disorientated and my vision was distorted (I think I was seeing in all directions at the same time). I had no body. I was a point of consciousness. I wasn't sure how to move (I've since read your 'Treatise on OBE -- 1994). After a few seconds, I was suddenly pulled back inside my body, but I never felt myself re-enter. I raised my head, laid it back on the pillow and began the process again. I left my body four times that morning. I was really excited because everything felt so real.

B: For the last few nights I've been trying to get out using the Rope Method. I lay on my bed and feel myself climbing the rope. Its hard for me to stay still for long because I start to get an extremely ticklish sensation (especially my face) and sometimes it feels as if parts of my face are twitching. Eventually, it gets unbearable and I have to scratch, which breaks my trance. Also, if I do feel that something is really happening, I get a surge of fear and excitement in my chest. I think this also hurts my chances of getting out, but I'm not sure what to do about it. At times I get the subtle feeling that the sinking energy feeling is about to start, however, as soon as I have this realization the feeling subsides. Its as if realizing that the sinking feeling is about to occur prevents it from happening.

My Comments:

A. I would hazard a guess that this lady had an OBE already in progress while she went to the bathroom. When she returned to bed her projected double appears to have returned and immediately exited again (sinking feeling) taking her center of consciousness with it this time.

B. While managing spontaneous exits well, this is a good example of how heavy Cobweb sensations can ruin an otherwise successful projection through distraction. The torso energy surge is also quite evident here. This all indicates Susan is very close to succeeding at conscious exit projection, despite all these problems. (See Astral Dynamics for more information on Cobweb phenomenon, and how to overcome it)



#2: Mr. C:


Mr. C: I lay on my back in bed and went through my relaxation techniques and my body went completely numb and felt very heavy. At the point where I start to actually project I realized I was having a projection and my heart jumps in excitement and shocked me back to my physical body. My heart felt like it was going 150 plus. Next time, I was just relaxing and not intending to have a projection. All at once my astral body rose out of my physical body at what felt like a 90 degree angle. Like a SNAP. Then I knew again where I was about to go. All of a sudden thunderous lightning sounds tingled and crackled loudly all around me. I struggled to maintain this place, but faltered and slipped back again, in excitement, into my physical body.

My Comments:

The above experience shows some fairly heavy exit sensations, with heavy thrumming and surging of emotional energy through the chest and heart center, plus loud astral noises ruining an otherwise successful projection. The surge of emotional energy through the chest area and the problems this can cause are also quite evident here.



#3: Mr. T:

Mr. T: I have tried to project many times, and tried energy work with my chakras, but have never quite managed to get out of my body. I did have some very interesting experiences though: I could definitely feel energy coming up through my legs, and could feel my base chakra pulsating and throbbing. When I get into the trance state, my arms and legs feel strange and enlarged, as if they are floating, and I can't tell if they are touching anything, or upside down or which way they are. I think I have started to separate from my body a few times, but each time this happened I think "Wow, something might happen this time" and my excitement ruins it. A few other times I have just been lying in bed trying to get to sleep and it has just started happening. I feel this incredible rush of energy go right through my body, very strong in my chest area, then once again I get excited and think "Wow, something is really happening and I'm not even trying", and this ruins it again.

My Comments:

This is a good example of energy movement up the legs and strong physical sensations in the base center. The emotional energy surge is especially strong here and appears to be causing most of the problems. It also shows how reacting to the torso energy surge by becoming excited can ruin an otherwise successful projection exit. Conscious exit projection, or even going along with a spontaneous projection exit, requires a delicate mental balancing act. The physical body and its mind and emotions must be kept under strict control at all times. Emotional reactions to the projection reflex are especially troublesome for new projectors.

#4: Mr. F:

Mr. F: Recently, I was sleeping in a tent and had a strange experience. I became totally relaxed, and then started to feel this energy, a really light energy, all through my body. I felt this very strongly in my hands. I lay very still, thinking about nothing for several minutes. Then, I felt these really strong vibrations and thought "I can go out of my body now!" My vision changed from pitch black to blurry white. It was really freaky. At the same time, I felt the definite sensation of my upper body slowly moving out of my regular body. The weird part was that I was in control and could feel the essence of being in two bodies at the same time. My heart then started pounding really fast and I got scared. This ended the experience.

My comments:

The above experience shows strong energetic sensations, vibrations and energy movement in the hands and up the arms (two main energy conduits into the upper body and the higher primary centers). Partial astral vision is experienced prior to the projection (blurry white). It also shows a mild sensation of duality caused by the mind-split at close range and of fear caused by normal exit sensations (racing heart center) ruining an otherwise successful spontaneous conscious exit projection.

#5: Mixed Experience - "Ms. S"


This case history illustrates some confusing aspects of projection, and how dream memories often become mixed with projection memories. I have broken this up into parts A & B, to clarify my comments on each part. (I will be using this format with all case histories in this book)

Ms S: A: After trying your new rope technique, I suddenly became aware of myself floating 5 feet above my body. I was paralyzed and scared and couldn't move. Strong vibrations were travelling throughout my body. A black hole appeared near me and I started really zipping through it. I suddenly realized I was in the stages of a full astral projection and panicked. Fear of what was happening stopped the process.

B: I woke up half an hour later, then finally went back to sleep and began what I thought was lucid dreaming. In the lucid dream I decided to practice my flying. I went outside, ran and jumped into the air and was soon flying very high and fast. Suddenly I felt my real body back in bed and the flying/falling sensation became much stronger. At first I was scared, but then decided to go with it. Suddenly, I was back in my physical body, briefly, and was then catapulted out of my body again and was left standing (wobbly sea legs and all) in my bedroom facing my dresser. I was so excited! I knew I was out of my body in what you have called the real time zone! I decided not to go too far or to stay out too long (taking your advice to keep it ultra short) so I returned to my physical body. I lay on top of my physical body, expecting to be reunited with it immediately. My projected double seemed not to connect with my physical body right away, so I decided to go back out again. The moment I had the thought I popped right out again. I turned around to look at my body on the bed but could not see it, but I did see my husband clearly in bed beside me. My attention was then drawn to a bright light coming from my side of the bed. As I looked closer, I discovered a long rectangular TV screen playing Mickey Mouse cartoons. I was amused. I couldn't wait to tell my husband, so I laid down to re-enter my body again. It took a few minutes to get settled back into my body. I patiently waited, not scared at all. Several times I lifted my astral arms out to see if I was back, and could see them clearly each time. I started counting and feeling for and wiggling my toes and then, suddenly, I was back in my body. I woke my husband to tell him "I DID IT!!!"

My Comments:

A: This first part shows waking paralysis, but as felt from the projected double's side. I'd say its possible the physical body was also awake and paralyzed at this time, but the memories of this seem to have been lost here. Ms. S's projected double may have been picking up the vibrations and paralysis from her physical body. Some degree of emotional feedback (fear and anxiety) seems to be at work here, possibly causing paralysis - the most likely scenario. The projected double's side of these memories has replaced the physical body's side after this part of the experience ended. This also shows the start of an astral tunnel or tube type experience. If Ms. S had gone with this she would have definitely ended up somewhere within the astral planes.

B: This shows how strong physical sensations, often felt during a projection exit, can be equally felt from within dreams, lucid dreams and projections. This also shows the strong, often visceral connections which exists between all these states of being. And, how a dream or lucid dream can be converted into a projection if the projector initiates and/or goes with the projection sensations when they occur, i.e.., falling, vibrations and other projection related sensations. This experience also shows how Lucid Dreams and projections can happen at the same time, and how these will often become mixed during the memory download into the physical brain - all contributing to the final memory set.
This experience shows the wisdom of keeping early projections ultra short. Ms. S's missing physical body and the Mickey Mouse on TV part shows how reality fluctuations can occur during a projection. Ms. S studied the area where her physical body should have been, maybe a little too closely, possibly causing this reality fluctuation. Ms. S's subconscious mind may, on the other hand, have been unable to accept the possibility of seeing another Ms.S. It may have created the TV set when it hid her physical body.
If Ms. S had not re-entered her body so quickly after the exit I doubt she would have recalled any part of this experience - reentry was difficult enough as it was. I would say Ms. S's physical/etheric mind had only lightly fallen asleep and was a fair way off the deep-sleep state. A very early light-sleep state is the perfect time for the projected double to reenter its physical body and cause it to wake or partially wake. This maximizes the chances of shadow memory recall. Working out this perfect time is quite difficult though, as everyone slides into sleep, and through the various stages of sleep, at different rates.


#6: Duality experience - "Mr. S"


This next case history shows duality, a symptom of the mind-split, being experienced during a real time projection.

Mr. S:  A: I was meditating in a chair when, quite suddenly, I began to see through my closed eyelids, and could see the room around me clearly.

B: I then got up, out of my body, and was walking down the hall to see the rest of the house when the phone rang. It sounded as if I was hearing this 'twice', one ring slightly before and out of phase with the second, almost like an echo. I assumed it was because of some kind of a lag in my physical body's nerve impulses, etc, from when the ear comes in contact with the sound to when the brain recognises it as a sound. This was not a very pleasant experience, and it was something unlike anything else I had experienced previously, so I immediately sped back to my body.

C: I got out of the chair to share my experience with someone. The only person I could find had just picked up the phone and was talking on it. This was the telephone I'd heard during the OBE.

My Comments:

A. This shows clear real time sight was enabled just prior to the exit, which is typical of most conscious exit projections.

B. Shows some of the effects of the mind-split, re the uncomfortable effects Mr. S experienced, indicating some mild auditory astral feedback. This was probably caused by hearing the same sound from two different but connected bodies at the same time. It also shows how real life sounds can be heard during a real time projection.

C. An apparently real life event (objective experience) was witnessed during this projection (telephone ringing) and this event was verified immediately after the projection.






fides quaerens intellectum

Waterfall,

Hello!  Well, one things is for sure, until we actually die none of us here will know EXACTLY how it is/feels, etc.  After having read your posts I think highly of you and I respect all of your ideas and experiences, I think you have a great deal of knowledge and are a very open minded and truthul person.

Regarding death, I am taught by those whom I regard as prophets that all travel to the light eventually, and then even after that they are once again placed behind a veil and either choose progression or create their own personal hell...not much different than this life really.

Anyway, this thread is one of the of the most interesting in a long time!

-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

A Little Child Shall Lead Them
Ensign, June 2002

By President Thomas S. Monson


During the Galilean ministry of our Lord and Savior, the disciples came unto Him, saying: "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

"And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

"Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

"And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea" (Matt. 18:1–6).


The Many Faces of Child Abuse

Some time ago, as I read the daily newspaper, my thoughts turned to this passage and the firm candor of the Savior's declaration. In one column of the newspaper I read of a custody battle between the mother and father of a child. Accusations were made, threats hurled, and anger displayed as parents moved here and there on the international scene with the child spirited away from one continent to another.

A second story told of a 12-year-old lad who was beaten and set on fire because he refused a neighborhood bully's order to take drugs.

Still a third report told of a father's sexual molestation of his small child.

A physician once revealed to me the large number of abused children who are being brought to the emergency rooms of local hospitals in your city and mine. In many cases guilty parents provide fanciful accounts of the child falling from his high chair or stumbling over a toy and striking his head. Altogether too frequently it is discovered that the parent was the abuser and the innocent child the victim. Shame on the perpetrators of such vile deeds. God will hold such strictly accountable for their actions.


Children Are Precious to the Lord

When we realize just how precious children are, we will not find it difficult to follow the pattern of the Master in our association with them. Not long ago, a sweet scene took place at the Salt Lake Temple. Children, who had been ever so tenderly cared for by faithful workers in the temple nursery, were now leaving in the arms of their mothers and fathers. One child turned to the lovely women who had been so kind to the children and, with a wave of her arm, spoke the feelings of her heart as she exclaimed, "Good night, angels."

The poet described a child so recently with its Heavenly Father as "a sweet new blossom of Humanity, fresh fallen from God's own home to flower on earth."1

Who among us has not praised God and marveled at His powers when an infant is held in one's arms? That tiny hand, so small yet so perfect, instantly becomes the topic of conversation. No one can resist placing his little finger in the clutching hand of an infant. A smile comes to the lips, a certain glow to the eyes, and one appreciates the tender feelings which prompted the poet to pen the lines:

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting:
The Soul that rises with us, our life's Star,
Hath had elsewhere its setting,
And cometh from afar;
Not in entire forgetfulness,
And not in utter nakedness,
But trailing clouds of glory do we come
From God, who is our home.2

When the disciples of Jesus attempted to restrain the children from approaching Him, He declared:

"Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

"Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

"And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them" (Mark 10:14–16).

What a magnificent pattern for us to follow.


We Can Bless the Lives of Children

Several years ago my heart burned warmly within me when the First Presidency approved the allocation of a substantial sum from some special fast-offering contributions to join with those funds from Rotary International that polio vaccine might be provided and the children living in Kenya immunized against this vicious crippler and killer of children.

I thank God for the work of our doctors who leave for a time their own private practices and journey to distant lands to minister to children. Cleft palates and other deformities which would leave a child impaired physically and damaged psychologically are skillfully repaired. Despair yields to hope. Gratitude replaces grief. These children can now look in the mirror and marvel at a miracle in their own lives.

In a meeting, I once told of a dentist in my ward who each year visited the Philippine Islands to work his skills without compensation to provide corrective dentistry for children. Smiles were restored, spirits lifted, and futures enhanced. I did not know that the daughter of this dentist was in the congregation to which I was speaking. At the conclusion of my remarks, she came forward and, with a broad smile of proper pride, said, "You have been speaking of my father. How I love him and what he is doing for children!"

In the faraway islands of the Pacific, hundreds who were near-blind now see because a missionary said to his physician brother-in-law, "Leave your wealthy clientele and the comforts of your palatial home and come to these special children of God who need your skills and need them now." The ophthalmologist responded without a backward glance. He has commented quietly that this visit was the best service he ever rendered and the peace which came to his heart the greatest blessing of his life.

Tears came easily to me when I read of a father who donated one of his own kidneys in the hope that his son might have a more abundant life. I have dropped to my knees at night and have added my prayer of faith in behalf of a mother in my community who journeyed to Chicago that she might provide part of her liver to her daughter in a delicate and potentially life-threatening surgery. She, who already had gone down into the valley of the shadow of death to bring forth this child into mortality, again put her hand in the hand of God and placed her own life in jeopardy for her child. Never a complaint, but ever a willing heart and a prayer of faith.

Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles once shared the pitiable plight of many orphan children in Romania—perhaps 30,000 in the city of Bucharest alone. He visited one such orphanage and arranged that the Church might provide vaccine, medical dressings, and other urgently needed supplies. Certain couples were identified and called to fill special missions to these children. I can think of no more Christlike service than to hold a motherless child in one's arms or to take a fatherless boy by the hand.

We need not be called to missionary service, however, in order to bless the lives of children. Our opportunities are limitless. They are everywhere to be found- sometimes very close to home.


How Children Bless Our Lives

Several years ago I received a letter from a woman who had emerged from a long period of Church inactivity. She was ever so anxious for her husband, who as yet was not a member of the Church, to share the joy she felt.

She wrote of a trip which she, her husband, and their three sons made from the family home to Grandmother's home in Idaho. While driving through Salt Lake City, they were attracted by the message which appeared on a billboard. The message invited them to visit Temple Square. Bob, the nonmember husband, made the suggestion that a visit would be pleasant. The family entered the visitors' center, and Father took two sons up a ramp that one called "the ramp to heaven." Mother and three-year-old Tyler were a bit behind the others, they having paused to appreciate the beautiful paintings which adorned the walls. As they walked toward the magnificent sculpture of Thorvaldsen's Christus, tiny Tyler bolted from his mother and ran to the base of the Christus, while exclaiming, "It's Jesus! It's Jesus!" As Mother attempted to restrain her son, Tyler looked back toward her and his father and said, "Don't worry. He likes children."

After departing the center and again making their way along the freeway toward Grandmother's, Dad asked Tyler what he liked best about their adventure on Temple Square. Tyler smiled up at him and said, "Jesus."

"How do you know that Jesus likes you, Tyler?"

Tyler, with a most serious expression on his face, looked up at his father's eyes and answered, "Dad, didn't you see His face?" Nothing else needed to be said.

As I read this account, I thought of the statement from the book of Isaiah, "And a little child shall lead them" (Isa. 11:6).

The words of a Primary hymn express the feelings of a child's heart:

Tell me the stories of Jesus I love to hear,
Things I would ask him to tell me if he were here.
Scenes by the wayside, tales of the sea,
Stories of Jesus, tell them to me.

Oh, let me hear how the children stood round his knee.
I shall imagine his blessings resting on me;
Words full of kindness, deeds full of grace,
All in the lovelight of Jesus' face.3


Blessing the Nephite Children

I know of no more touching passage in scripture than the account of the Savior blessing the children, as recorded in 3 Nephi. The Master spoke movingly to the vast multitude of men, women, and children. Then, responding to their faith and the desire that He tarry longer, He invited them to bring to Him their lame, their blind, and their sick, that He might heal them. With joy they accepted His invitation. The record reveals that "he did heal them every one" (3 Ne. 17:9). There followed His mighty prayer to His Father. The multitude bore record: "The eye hath never seen, neither hath the ear heard, before, so great and marvelous things as we saw and heard Jesus speak unto the Father" (3 Ne. 17:16).

Concluding this magnificent event, Jesus "wept, . . . and he took their little children, one by one, and blessed them, and prayed unto the Father for them. . . .

"And he spake unto the multitude, and said unto them: Behold your little ones.

"And as they looked to behold they cast their eyes towards heaven, and they saw the heavens open, and they saw angels descending out of heaven . . . ; and they came down and encircled those little ones . . . ; and the angels did minister unto them" (3 Ne. 17:21, 23–24).

Over and over in my mind I pondered the phrase, "Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein" (Mark 10:15).


Thomas Michael Wilson

One who fulfilled in his life this admonition of the Savior was a missionary, Thomas Michael Wilson. He is the son of Willie and Julia Wilson, Route 2, Box 12, Lafayette, Alabama. Elder Wilson completed his earthly mission on 13 January 1990. When he was but a teenager, and he and his family were not yet members of the Church, he was stricken with cancer, followed by painful radiation therapy, and then blessed remission. This illness caused his family to realize that not only is life precious but that it can also be short. The family began to look to religion to help them through this time of tribulation. Subsequently they were introduced to the Church and baptized. After accepting the gospel, young Brother Wilson yearned for the opportunity of being a missionary. A mission call came for him to serve in the Utah Salt Lake City Mission. What a privilege to represent the family and the Lord as a missionary!

Elder Wilson's missionary companions described his faith as like that of a child–unquestioning, undeviating, unyielding. He was an example to all. After 11 months, illness returned. Bone cancer now required the amputation of his arm and shoulder. Yet he persisted in his missionary labors.

Elder Wilson's courage and consuming desire to remain on his mission so touched his nonmember father that he investigated the teachings of the Church and also became a member.

An anonymous caller brought to my attention Elder Wilson's plight. She said she didn't want to leave her name and indicated she'd never before called a General Authority. However, she said, "You don't often meet someone of the caliber of Elder Wilson."

I learned that an investigator whom Elder Wilson had taught was baptized at the baptistry on Temple Square but then wanted to be confirmed by Elder Wilson, whom she respected so much. She, with a few others, journeyed to Elder Wilson's bedside in the hospital. There, with his remaining hand resting upon her head, Elder Wilson confirmed her a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Elder Wilson continued month after month his precious but painful service as a missionary. Blessings were given; prayers were offered. The spirit of his fellow missionaries soared. Their hearts were full. They lived closer to God.

Elder Wilson's physical condition deteriorated. The end drew near. He was to return home. He asked to serve but one additional month. What a month this was! Like a child trusting implicitly its parents, Elder Wilson put his trust in God. He whom Thomas Michael Wilson silently trusted opened the windows of heaven and abundantly blessed him. His parents, Willie and Julia Wilson, and his brother Tony came to Salt Lake City to help their son and brother home to Alabama. However, there was yet a prayed-for, a yearned-for, blessing to be bestowed. The family invited me to come with them to the Jordan River Utah Temple, where those sacred ordinances which bind families for eternity, as well as for time, were performed.

I said good-bye to the Wilson family. I can see Elder Wilson yet as he thanked me for being with him and his loved ones. He said, "It doesn't matter what happens to us in this life as long as we have the gospel of Jesus Christ and live it." What courage. What confidence. What love. The Wilson family made the long trek home to Lafayette, where Elder Thomas Michael Wilson slipped from here to eternity.

President Kevin K. Meadows, Elder Wilson's branch president, presided at the funeral services. The words of his subsequent letter to me I share with you: "On the day of the funeral, I took the family aside and expressed to them, President Monson, the sentiments you sent to me. I reminded them of what Elder Wilson had told you that day in the temple, that it did not matter whether he taught the gospel on this or the other side of the veil, so long as he could teach the gospel. I gave to them the inspiration you provided from the writings of President Joseph F. Smith [1838–1918]—that Elder Wilson had completed his earthly mission and that he, as all 'faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead' [D&C 138:57]. The Spirit bore record that this was the case. Elder Thomas Michael Wilson was buried with his missionary name tag in place."

When Elder Wilson's mother and father visit that rural cemetery and place flowers of remembrance on the grave of their son, I feel certain they remember the day he was born, the pride they felt, and the genuine joy that was theirs. This tiny child became the mighty man who later brought to them the opportunity to achieve celestial glory. Perhaps on these pilgrimages, when emotions are close to the surface and tears cannot be restrained, they thank God for their missionary son, who never lost the faith of a child, and then ponder deep within their hearts the Master's words, "And a little child shall lead them" (Isa. 11:6).

Peace is their blessing. It will be our blessing, also, as we remember and follow the Prince of Peace.


Gospel topics: Jesus Christ, children, abuse, service, faith


Notes

1. Gerald Massey, "Wooed and Won," in The Home Book of Quotations, sel. Burton Stevenson (1934), 121.

2. William Wordsworth, "Ode: Intimations of Immortality from Recollections of Early Childhood," The Complete Poetical Works of William Wordsworth (1924), 359.

3. "Tell Me the Stories of Jesus," Children's Songbook, 57.


fides quaerens intellectum

FIrst of all, let me say how jealous I am of Nitetravlr's cool animated avatar!  That is VERY cool.!  jk

Anyway, I agree with Robert that this entity must be some kind of archetype and unless he identifies his/her identity and purpose I would be careful.

-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

I am firmly of the belief that there are indeed those people who, after dying, simpyl do not realize it.  I think deep down somewhere they know, but they don't want to face it.  Usually it doesn't last too long, speaking of them not realizing they are "dead" because really they are not dead, they have simply sloughed off (for lack of a better term) their physical body.

THen there are those who think, "Wow, I can do whatever I want and not get in trouble".  For example, the sex fiend who hangs around the real time zone exposing himself and watching others have sex...although he cannot fulfill his unchecked sexual desires due to the lack of a physical body, he will hang around until he can overcome the problem(s) that he should have overcome while he was still alive in the phsyical.

Others who have lived lives in which they have gotten in touch with their spiritual nature and have developed self control will move on and continue to progress.... for whatever level of intelligence and enlightenment we attain in this life will remain with us in the life to come.  I think it's failry straightforward.

fides quaerens intellectum

Oh yeah, well I have seen that one too...but I have seen yet another that has the little fish with the legs and then a bigger fish (the Christian one) about to swallow it whole.  So I guess this could go on forever...I think it sort of symbolizes the way the believers and non-believers feel about one another's philisophical views on life.   http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

fides quaerens intellectum

Infantile baptism is an abomination.  Kakkarot was right, baptism is the act of shedding ones old life and taking on certain covenants.  Babies are innocent and incapable of making decisions and do not need to be cleansed in any way.  Blessing a child, etc. is fine and in fact, IMHO, necessary...but baptising a child is ludicrous.

fides quaerens intellectum

Hello and welcome!  I echo what Tom wrote.  Also, try to get your hands on everything Robert Bruce has written, especially in regards to what he has said/written about sleep paralysis, etc.  The more you inform yourself of these matters the less scary and unnerving your experiences will be and your eyes will be opened.  


fides quaerens intellectum

I am definetly going to have to get my hands on that one.  I have a peice of paper taped on the wall next to my bed with all the books I am need to buy/borrow/steal (just kidding about the stealing part http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> )  Anyone here a poetry fan?  I love poetry...maybe we could post some of our favorite poems.  I love to read poetry to my soon to be wife.  I also write some too, but nothing I feel is great yet.  Here is one of the poems I have written for my sweetheart Sarah:

Essence of Lovers
for Sarah

Night falls and thoughts become fluid
Shimmering and dripping into the basin of my soul

If only I could emerge within you
And drown your doubts in joy

Words cease and thoughts mystify
Together all our fears shall cease

Love permeating the etheric air
I set off to find you standing in your dreams
Rejoicing in our new discovery we fly
Commencing the sweet matrimony of souls
We bend and blend together, forevermore

-D. Todd

I usually don't like to share my poems with anyone, but I feel comfortable sharing this with you all.
-Dan

fides quaerens intellectum

Thanks for the story Richard, I like that a lot.  It reminded me of another short metaphorical tale that goes something like this:  There was a young man who traveled from from village to village seeking out the most wise and spiritual individuals as teachers..  He had come to a small village and found an old peasant woman tending her small garden.  He approached her and informed her that he was looking for the most righteous man in the village.  She pointed towards the town first and there the man saw the village people trading in the town center.  Next to every person, besides the little children, he saw a demon.  He knew that none of those people were the ones he was looking for.  The woman then indicated to a  mountain nearby and there the young man saw a haggard old man hiking up the mountain.  Surrounding him were at least a dozen huge demons.  They looked terrible and evil.  "That's the man you are looking for" she stated simply.  "But that's not possible" the young man said looking at the woman in disebelief.  "Look how many demons he has around him, he must be an evil, evil man" he said.  The old woman then turned and faced him, "Oh no, you are mistaken" she pointed back towards the town, "Those people are so weak minded that they require only one small demon the tempt them and keep them in submission".  She then turned towards the old man, "But look at him, he is surrounded by the oldest, most terrible demons and they still can't break him.  And there he is, hiking up that narrow, steep path like he does every day to pray and meditate at the summit."

Anyway, the story goes something like that.  It's kind of the "opposition in all things" deal, the more powerful and good you become the harder the opposition tries you.  I like that story because it reminds me that when I am making the most headway in my life is when I am likely to face the most oppisition.  

And the reason I chose the name Peaceful Warrior is because I fight daily with the opposition andI try to use the correct weapons: love, patience, virtue, honesty, faith, etc.

fides quaerens intellectum

Don't worry friend, things aren't getting touchy, I promise.  It takes a lot ot get me frustrated or angry, I can assure you that.  Anyway, I hear what you are saying.  If there's a believer in human potential it's me!  I believe man can do all things, there is no limit to our potential...but everything we do is through the power, knowledge and light of the Source, which is God.  We can become like God and that's the main reason we are here in this life.  I too believe in natural processes, but I believe that's the way God works.  I don't want to get into my theories of evolution, Adam and Eve, etc. but I do know that God lives, it's not faith, but knowledge.  

Like the line below, after faith comes knowledge...

fides quaerens intellectum

Ryno-
thanks for sharing you personal experience with us.  Just tonight, in fact, while I was hanging out with a few friends of mine I was thinking about the fact that I have very few friends my age who read for fun.  If they are not in school they simply do not read for pleasure.  I find reading before I go to bed to be not only relaxing, but enlightening.  Non-fiction, fiction, poetry and scriptures....it's all rewarding in different ways!

JustinH- those StarWar books sound interesting....tell us more about the novel "Wake Up to Your Life", that sounds rather interesting...

fides quaerens intellectum

I disagree wholeheartedly. In regards to the Swiss watch theory, if you want to say, and I quote, "...that which is alive and functioning does not need that complex of a creation" then I guess that I am not going to be able to persuade you.  How can you say that a living organism, a creation so complex that we still don't understand how it works nor how to create it, is easier to form than a watch then I think you are percieving reality in an entorely different way than myself.  We, as humans, along with all other living life forms, are MIRACLES!  Humans can procreate, but even in our most advanced labratories we cannot create life int he true sense of the word.  We cannot even come close to creating AI in computers.  


fides quaerens intellectum

Thanks for the info...

fides quaerens intellectum