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Thanks for the tips all.

Can someone tell me more about how to "OBE" from a lucid dream? Or how to do anything from a lucid dream for that matter. For instance, how do I stabilize my lucidity? Or how can I get to Focus 3?

One last question, is when you phase to focus 2, are you in the same place as when you are lucid dreaming?

Thanks,
-Andrew

I listened to Boxed Nirvana I last night before I went to sleep, turned it off, went to sleep, and "woke up" an hour later after a very lucid experience. When I awoke, it felt more like I was merely opening my eyes, and not like I had been sleeping at all.

My problem is this: I remember getting vibrations and floating out of my body and suddenly being in a sort of dream version of my room. This sounds like an AP for sure, but I think I may have merely dreamt the vibrational experience and separation from my body, because I remember it the way one remembers a dream (iow, not particularly vividly.) Is it more likely that I dreamt this experience, as I've read enough about it that my mind could easily create a facsimile? If you get vibrations, do you always clearly remember the experience?

Thanks in advance,
-Andrew

BillionNamesofGod:

I have to agree with Mr. Jingo on this. It seems to me like you need to open your mind to the negative possibilities, along with the positive.

1. The mind is a powerful thing. No one really knows what it is capable of, and to assume it is not capable of producing these effects is not a truth-seeking approach.

2. No one is saying that the experiences aren't real. The controversy comes from the nature of the reality of the event.

3. A lot of people rightfully wonder simply: Is a projection into the RTZ a projection into the actual physical world, or an elaborate copy of it?

4. If it is in fact the real physical world where the projections occur, there should be some simple test one can undergo to prove it, if not to the world, at least to oneself. The test would not be to test the reality of your experience, but rather the truth of the connection between the two states of reality.

5. Now, you'll probably want to say here that one doesn't need proof, that its just a self evident truth. The problem with this response is that intuition is fallible. No matter how strongly you feel you are projecting into the physical, it is still only a feeling. You can't be sure until you've brought some evidence back from the Astral state, that it does in fact correspond. If this is not possible, than it is purely an issue of faith, the way believing in God is. But there is no very simple, obvious test to prove the existence of God the way there is here. Therefore, it should be tested. People used to feel very strongly that the earth was flat, they said "Its obvious, just look how far out there you can see! It seems to go on forever!"

6. The 'Holy Grail :: CUP' analogy is an interesting one, but it ultimately  doesn't work. The proof of the astral/physical connection is not of the form 'abstract entity :: physical object' it is of the form 'astral body/physical object 1 :: physical body/physical object 1'. We are not blinded in the quest by looking for something the wrong way in the wrong place, all we want is a very simple correlation between the two situations.

7. Saying "No scientist would believe any proof you have" is also an unjust claim. There have been several scientific tests to determine the validity of OBE's. D. Scott Rogo has been involved in many experiments, and written lots about it. It is definitely empirically testable, and even if you showed a true scientist empirical evidence that you can make gold from pete moss and melted toasters, they'll be forced to believe it. They might want to test the hell out of it, but they'll accept it alright.

The point of my going on about this is that assumptions are a bad idea regardless of how sure you are about something. I'm not saying that you should be paranoid and distrust everything, but more that you should be open to all and every possibility as Mr.J suggests.

-Andrew

P.S.: don't tell anyone about the moss and toasters. that's my gig.

Mr. Jingo (or anyone else who'd like to respond):

Here is what happened during my practice this evening:

After my body went fairly numb in the first 15-20 mins., I spent about 10 mins concentrating on taming my excitement. As a consequence of this process the rest of my body became more relaxed. At about the 40 min. mark(I suppose), I felt a definite shift in awareness. It felt like my consciousness had grown from what I could immediately perceive in front of me, to a vast and black expanse of space. Also at this point, I became much less aware of my body, as if it were a small spot of awareness somewhere below me. I experienced little hypnagogic imagery, and no perceivable vibrations. During this time, I tried to "see" my astral hands, but couldn't see anything other than an imagined outline. I remained this way for a couple of minutes, then decided to concentrate on the blackness with my eyes. This was a bad idea, as I was immediately drawn back to my previous state of "small consciousness." After this I lay there for another 10 mins. or so, and felt a tingling sensation in the middle of my forehead (third chakra?).

My questions are:

1. Where do you think I was along the phasing spectrum? Focus 10 or 12?
2. What is a "trigger"?
3. Any advice?

Thanks,
-Andrew

Hi magicmac.

It's an acronym I made up. 'Traditional Astral Projection'.

Spread the word and soon I'll rule the world.

Samantha says that I'm not funny.

-Andrew

OK thank you both for your replies.

I think based on this information I will make it my first goal to TAP. I will want more control over my abilities in time, but right now I'm concerned with getting to the Astral. I really want to feel as though I'm in a world not created by myself, or to just fly around in the RTZ at first. A month ago I wouldn't have considered those ambitions so modest. In fact, that idea is what got me hooked on this in the first place! (I love flying in dreams)

Thank you again for your input,
-Andrew

Thank you knightlight.

Have you made it to Focus 12? Does it just automatically happen to you when your body shuts down?

-Andrew

Hello MT.

Wow. I think I've been harbouring some severe misconceptions here. I was under the impression that phasing to Focus 12 is the same thing as traditionally projecting, just a way to make the transition smoother and retain more memory.

More Questions!( ):

1. What is the difference between Focus 12 and the traditional OBE? You mentioned a contradiction in terms, but there must be some great difference in order to warrant the trouble. Which brings me to my next question.

2. How much harder do you find it to phase as opposed to TAP? (TAP, I like that...)

All I want (and I think most everyone can sympathise here) is to get anywhere by the easiest and fastest way possible. I am a patient person, and will go to whatever length, but if tearing myself out of myself is faster than concentrating and willing myself to the same place, I think would go with the former. But again, there must be some reason why you would choose to switch to this method (other than wanting a challenge).

Thank you for your patience,
-Andrew

MT:
Thank you, that is a very helpful response.
I have one(?) more set of questions(:blahblah:) :

So you are saying that you have a very competent grasp of Focus 10, yet you can't get to Focus 12 easily? What about Frank's idea of using Focus 10 as a 'springboard'? Do other people experience this same obstruction?

I assumed, based on the wealth of information I've read, that once one becomes bored with Focus 10, the rest will follow. Is this some kind of embellishment on the truth? I hope not!

Thanks,
-Andrew

[1. It is said that: 'Focus 10 is a definite shift of awareness.']

I am posting this topic due to my ambiguous grasp of Focus 10. I have read all of the material I can get my hands on (most notably Major Tom's essay on the subject), but I think the nature of the state itself is what causes confusion.

1. It is said that: 'Focus 10 is a definite shift of awareness.'

Q's:
i. Should a wait and expect this shift?
ii. Will I definitely feel it?

2. Usually when I'm relaxing, I can get my body to go mostly numb. I then experience two problems:
a. I can't stop being excited (i.e. my heart beats fast and feels tense).
b. I calm down by focusing on something other than my body and goals, in which case I tend to lose lucidity.

Q's:
i. Does my being excited prevent me from entering a full Focus 10?
ii. What is a good way to hold lucidity while also avoiding thoughts of my goals and body?

Does anyone have any advise to share regarding these questions and/or general advise on Focus 10? I know it's a popular topic, but I'd like to have these questions specifically addressed. Also if anyone knows of a previous topic on the subject, that may be of help as well.

Thanks,
-Andrew

Thank you Major!

Since your name is part of the title of this thread, I guess any question I ask you is automatically relevant, so...

1.) Do you think energy work/ chakra development is essential (or even recommended) for phasing? I have taken a trial and error attitude in this venture, so I'd like any advice I can get to improve my chances.

2.) What do you think of Brainwave Generator as a tool for achieving the mindset needed to phase? I tried Wave 1 for about a week and liked it, but I always found it too short, and the voice can be a bit jarring and intrusive. BWGen can go as long as you want it to, and I usually go through the Munroe steps in my head. Anyway, I have just started using it and wanted to know if you have any suggestions for presets or anything like that.

3.) Could you lay out in point form the process you use in achieving focus 12 (and beyond)? And also at each step of the process it would be very helpful if you could give a rough description of what you commonly experience.

Anyone other than Major Tom who would like to respond to these questions is more than welcome. The truth is but a composite of individual perspectives, right? Well, actually that's completely wrong. But feel free anyway!

-Andrew

[Selski wrote:]

Selski wrote:
It could be anything - skating on ice, walking through fields, swimming the Channel, stirring soup.

- stirring soup?

How about: conquering Rome, meeting Jesus, discovering the meaning of life, or... doing laundry.  

So, it seems that noticing is pretty much always beneficial in getting into a deep Focus 10, and then from there one can either proceed to engage in a mental rundown, or continue to notice.

I recently stumbled across this e-book by Donald J. DeGracia that details a very comprehensive method of noticing.(http://www.geocities.com/octanolboy/do_obe.pdf [start reading at 'Trance Methods' on page 41])  It involves concentrating on "entopic lights" (the little pin-pricks of light in the blackness behind your eyelids), paying attention to bodily sensations (something Frank may not agree with), and also paying close attention to hypnogogic imagery . I have just begun using this method and it seems to be yielding results already. I think this method may work because it eliminates all of the ambiguity people tend to experience with the mental rundown. For instance, most people have trouble understanding how focused the images should be and end up defeating their purpose by questioning themselves. This procedure is extremely straightforward, and I think it may be helpful to some people.

If anyone reads it, let me know what you think.

I am curious about this idea of simultaneous time, or rather, 'no' time. The Greek Eleatic philosophers held a similar view due to a philosophical proof that nothing can ever change, thus all apparent change is illusion. I'm wondering if anyone can elaborate a bit on this idea of the future being somehow contained in the present, yet not 'objectively' contained. What kind of containment is it? I don't expect anyone to explain to me how time can be an illusion, its probably beyond comprehension in C-1, but maybe some suggestions would help.

Thanks.

Frank build himself a pretty strong reputation here over the years. Helping many in their quest for either phasing and/or OBE. Everyone who as taken the time to read his posts will recognize his great knowledge.

Up to there, he is a generous fellow, helping others. Then money leaks in.

He figured that since so many wanted that he write a book on the subject, he started. Then why not make a special class and charge money for it.

There's a slippage here. Exchanging with the members of the Astral Pulse, on a free basis, giving some of his time even in exchanging emails with some...to hey! why not make a buck out of this!

Now there's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

So he puts up his newsletter, and if you take the time to read it...what a sell pitch!!! The best there is in marketing.

He offer private tutorials for a fee. That's still OK, he has every right to be paid for his time.

He even gives out his personal home address to prove that he is a real person not a company. He adds to this the "Frank Keeble Foundation" and ask to those who are willing to make donations.

Now that's two source of money coming in.

He makes his group for the Virtual Classroom, member pay through PayPal. Then he tells the member that he is sick.

No news for a while. Some ask for a refund then, no reply from Frank. He gives members 3 weeks to either stay or ask for a refund. After 6-7 weeks no more news.

I wish like everybody here that this whole thing is just a misunderstanding. That Frank has health problems which are preventing him from giving any news. I wish that its nothing serious and that he will recover.

Now some facts. The home address that he gave DOES NOT EXIST. There's one in a nearby town which exist, BUT NO ONE BY THAT NAME LIVES THERE.

As much as I would like to beleive that Frank is an honest fellow, this whole thing smells bad. And it is LEGITIMATE TO ASK QUESTIONS.

ger:

I am addressing your post because it seems like you have the most initiative, and also the fairest approach of those who strongly question Frank's motives. Also, your points are quite persuasive.

Based on probability and intuition, however, I have to disagree with even the slight probability that Frank is a con artist. Seriously consider what you would do if you were in Frank's position and you were a con artist. He would have invested so much time and energy into this con that he could have really made it pay off. I'm a new member here and after reading his newsletters and some posts, I was ready to pay for the book ASAP, without proof or anything!

He could have made a lot of money for 3 seconds of work by posting: "My new book is ready. Here is how you buy it." But he didn't, and therefore it cannot be a con. It really is the strongest point, none of the others, for or against, even matter comparatively. Unless you have a good suggestion as to why he wouldn't capitalize on this last, easy opportunity, then I think it's a finished argument. Adrian even said he knows for a fact that Frank's book is near completion, and I see no reason to disbelieve him.

I really do think, based on the nature of his work, that he is probably undergoing some kind of illness/crisis which has caused his life to fall apart, but that's obviously just speculation. Frank was obviously an expert in the field; forget the "he doesn't have a book nonsense". There is practically a book's worth of material in his newsletters and posts. Contrary to other opinions, these works of his do form a very cohesive, although not complete body of work, including the method Frank himself recommends.

I would be ticked too if my money was taken without explanation, and I think every step you are taking is the right one. I just want to suggest that you think about my point and if you have a reply, by all means! I am just trying to break the matter down into its composite parts in order to give the most accurate possible representation of the reality of the situation.

I'm looking for opinions on what exactly the famed vibrations are thought to be caused by, and what exactly their general relevance is in the expanding of our consciousnesses.

I for instance have heard that they are an experiencing of vibrational energy that one possesses, which can be possessed in levels the higher the better for projection. I have also heard that they are a mere side-effect of becoming in tune with reality as energy, but are of no importance to what one can accomplish, and in fact some people project without having them at all!

Whaddya think?

cecilguy:

I don't mean to disrespect the others' advice, but you could examine this matter from the 'Phasing' model of consciousness. Under this doctrine, it sounds to me like you're in 'Focus 2 of Consciousness', where you have an objective view of the happenings in your mind. The effects that the others are talking about when trying to overcome these 'entities' (as Zante mentioned) could be a purely psychological manifestation of your own inability to overcome your own subconscious fears, which are foreign to your consciousness. We see this principle in psychology all the time: the more you try and overcome a fear, the more strength the fear gains because you are paying attention to it and giving it significance.

In F2oC, all of this takes place within your own consciousness, not in an external world with 'Negs' floating around. Like Zante suggested, the important thing to remember is that 'thought=action' For instance, you may have had the experience of flying while projecting, and suddenly second-guessing your ability to fly, then...crash! So if your subconscious mind has drummed up these strange beings to represent some fear or doubt, the way to deal with them is to realize it in your lucid consciousness.

This will change these demons from powerful, mysterious beings into whatever you want them to be, because once their true natures are realized, you realize it is yourself you are fighting with. Maybe try thinking of them as gobstoppers and increase the size of your head so that your mouth is big enough to eat them if you want. Similarly, the idea of 'giving the creatures love' could be interpreted simply as increasing your own conscious positivity, and therefore overcoming your subconscious fears as it's manifested in these creatures. The mind is a powerful thing after all.

Here is a excerpt from Frank Kepple's second newsletter:

Focus 2 of consciousness is what is commonly known by psychologists, as your "sub conscious" but there is nothing "sub" about it. Focus 2 is where most people do their dreaming, lucid dreaming, their "astral projecting", their meeting up with all manner of demons and devils, etc. Focus 2 of consciousness contains all manner of personal faculties such as your memory and your imagination. Without Focus 2 of consciousness we simply wouldn't be able to think rationally or create anything within the physical. It holds all our belief constructs that we happen to subscribe to. And it is this latter point that is rather interesting.

You can actually project within Focus 2 of consciousness and objectively view representations of your very own belief constructs that you hold. However, taking on board the fact that people typically think that this area of consciousness (to them the Astral) is a separate place, the Astral will actually become whatever you believe it is! This simple fact, unbelievably, has been the source of thousands of years of confusion as regards the wider reality.

If you are interested in the Phasing construct, look it up on the AP FAQ Topics, and read the back issues of the newsletter here:

http://www.astralprojectiontruth.com/nbi.htm

On a side note to Zante, I'm not sure I agree with the claim that it doesn't matter whether you believe in their objective existence or not; for instance the 'negs' are not found in F3oC, the area inhabited by the souls of the deceased. The difference is that the souls encountered here obviously are of their own mind, i.e. they do not operate under the thought=action principle, so I might be more inclined to say that they are not objectively distinct, but merely subjectively distinct.

Sorry about the length of the post, but it's just so damn interesting!!!

Tvos:

I am wondering if you were actually able to contact your grandmother, and what led you to believe that it was actually her, and not just an imaginary manifestation of what you believe she was like? Was it something she said? Did you describe her to your mother? Or maybe just a strong feeling of lucidity, the way you can tell right now that you're awake and not dreaming?

I am curious because I too have a Grandmother in F3oC, and when I'm able to phase there, I'd like to speak to her as well.

Thank you for your response. I was waiting to see if others would chime in, but - no dice. I guess your reply was so clear no one felt the need. Anyway, I guess my next question is: what do you (as in whoever is reading this) find to be the most effective of these two methods (that is, the noticing of random internal events vs. the active engagement in a self-created atmosphere)?

I am just curious as to which of these I should devote my time to first. I guess I'm looking for some sort of majority vote on which is the most effective.

I would just like to commend our Corellian friend Hans for severing some foots and inserting them in their respective mouths. It's about time someone talked some sense in this masturbatory, mistake of a conversation. I agree with all of his points, and am especially indebted for the laughs received upon imagining some crazy mystic's bed surrounded by a small crocodile infested body of water.

I would like to add this to his criticisms: it makes no sense to claim that phasing is somehow a lesser theory just because it has a less extensive body of literature. The reason we can't write a book about it is that we don't understand it, not that it isn't true. Copernicus also wrote a book; it contained this crazy astronomical idea that the sun is actually the center of the solar system, and our earth is a measly planet! What a nut! Frank, as Hans said, is a pioneer. If anything, I'd say the reason for his absence is more likely due to that fact than any scam. If you float too close to the sun, your astral wings are likely to melt...

So, in my opinion, if anyone has anything else to say on the matter, it had better be REALLY worth it, or they'll only look like an idiot. That means YOU, whoever is reading this with a red face.

In closing, the immortal words of those Christian evangelists who so readily resemble our favorite mystical shysters (and by the same token remind us nothing of our friend Frank):

"Let us prey".

Hi. This is my first post. Ever. Here I am.

I'm what the internerds call a 'newbie' to the astral realm (or to be politically correct, the phasing realm). As an aside, I am extremely attracted to the philosophical implications of these practices, especially in Frank's so-far coherent 'phasing' model of consciousness, and I also happen to think that the whole idea is damn cool (is that a proper mystical term?).

Anyway, my progress so far has led me to what I believe to be the beginnings of Focus 2oC (I experience motion that is not related to my physical body), and I am having some problems deciding what exactly to do here. These problems arise from a seeming contradiction in theories of my two favorite posters, Major Tom of the Munroe camp, and Frank Kepple of the Kepple camp.

Major Tom says:
"While in focus 10 (whether it is a light or deep focus 10) start playing around with seeing your favorite images in your mind's eye. Don't create the scene in terms of creative visualization. You don't "build" the image. Rather, you try to "see" a favorite image for only a very brief period of time as if it comes out of nowhere. Do not try to hold it. If it's vague (like for example seeing a half-formed image of a lake surrounded by mountains) then you do not try to make it more vivid."

Frank says:
"Once a person becomes comfortable with the action of looking within, they will naturally want to start looking at something in particular else they'll either get bored, or fall asleep. So next I recommend the creation of some kind of mental rundown in your imagination. Doing this has the effect of capturing a person's focus of attention. Once their attention has been captured, they make the switch from 3rd person to 1st person view and find themselves (normally) within Focus 2 of consciousness. Reason why it's normally F2 is because this area is where your imagination is, which is the faculty that a person uses to create their mental rundown."

So the problem is:
When I'm in the light stages of Focus 10/2oC, do I try and create images to occupy my mind so I don't get bored or fall asleep, or do I passively observe the happenings and just try to remain lucid?

Any help/opinions would be appreciated,
-Andrew