Messages

I wonder why mactombs would have so many problems with them? Seems like it would sure put a damper on OBEing.

I don't think that I've ever run into anything that I would qualify as a neg. I seem prone to fear. It doesn't put a damper on OBEing.

What puts a damper on OBEing for me is this worry that OBEs are just the ultimate fantasy, pure escapism, a way to avoid the mess in my own waking life. As far as psychological blocks go, fear of scary things is low on my list.

Yeah I have the same fear sometimes. However, how is it any different than spending an hour watching television or reading a book? OBEs at least have great personal benefits for myself: I find myself very relaxed afterwards, have a greater awareness of problems that I may choose to concentrate on while in the F10 state and it's fun! So even if this is pure escapism (doubtful but possible), I can pull enough benefits from the experience to make it very worth my while over other alternatives.

I would like to know, is this institute a scientific institute? From all my research on this phenomena known as "out of body experiences" I have not found one scientificaly-conducted experiment which was done to test the validity of such experiences.

Is this due to the fear that in the end there will be nothing to prove such experiences as being more than a dream or hallucination?

Nope. In fact me and all of these board members would love to know if these experiences transcend simple brain-related manifestations. If you do a search on this board then you will see members conducting 'validity' experiments or attempting to verify their experiences with information obtained while Out o body. So no, I'd actually say the exact opposite holds true (if anything): we're more fearful that we'll never get the chance to determine if this is all escapism or the real deal.

And think about it anyways. Who would honestly be able to make a case and acquire grant money to study out of body experiences? So far we had to rely on wealthy business men like Robert Monroe to fund research in this area.

I ofted hear members on this forum quoting Robert Monroe, or Robert bruce, or Adrian Cooper, in things that apparently have no evidence or documentation of their truthfulness. Yet, I see members following such statements blindly as if its some sort of revelation. I find this to be a childish, superstitutious, and almost ridiculous way to obtain information about reality and the afterlife.

In any case, If you have any information regarding experiments done at the 'Robert Monroe' Institute, please paste the information.

What are you talking about. Everyone here uses the books as guides to experiencing alternate realities, not as truth. Truth about this comes from personal verification. The only truth we take for granted is the actual techniques and methods used to get out of our body. And we should.


Do a google search on Robert monroe institute or hemi-sync.

jub jub,

Try just practicing having a completely blank mind and consistently making your way to mind awake body asleep (F10). Once at this state, if you keep your mind blank you will begin to receive some very interesting images/movies/sounds/etc. Eventually you'll get a strong enough of a 'signal' of imagery and you'll be able to phase into it. Don't even worry about vibrations and trying to exit the ol fashioned way. I actually find that vibrations occur when I am not physically/mentally relaxed enough to project.

A great technique is to fall asleep and wake up without any movement whatsoever. You'll be at your prime to phase, OBE, lucid dream, etc. Sometimes I have even awakened from a gentle sleep cycle only to find myself literally slipping out of my body onto the floor.

Moving physical items while out of body is not the only method of verification. For instance, I have used my cat and mom as verification. You'll find lots of other stories here on the forum about a person's personal source of verification. For your author Draja, that is their personal verification.

Famous OBE researcher and author Robert Monroe received verification through retrievals. He would find someone 'trapped' between the physical and higher nonphysical levels (F23 I believe). While assisting them in their transition to a higher energy system, he would pick up information about their life such as name, address, place of death, hobbies, pets, etc. He would then research this information and it proved to be on dead on. The Monroe institute that Robert Monroe established actually had a department that would verify an individuals out of body retrieval.

I think Monroe's biggest verification came when he would meet his wife in out of body experiences while she was ill. Then right after she died in the hospital, the participants of the retrieval process at the Monroe Institute reported helping his wife make her journey to a higher energy level.(F27+).  If that isn't verification I don't know what is!

And in regards to moving items, no I have never successfully interacted with the physical while in the RTZ. There's too many reality fluctuations and I usually get focused on greater tasks. once out You might be interested in psychokinesis (or whatever the proper term is) where people use their minds to move items around in the physical. Take a look http://www.psipog.net

If you could see into your bedroom through your closed eyelids, then you gained RTZ (astral) sight. It means you were looking at an RTZ version of your bedroom. Subconscious pollution is fair game.

When you project, then you have to use your nonphysical (etheric) senses to pick up information from the RTZ. I classify one of these nonphysical senses as your nonphysical (etheric) mind which is supposedly a copy of consciousness. This nonphysical mind has two important properties to help you draw information from the RTZ: lucidity and awareness.

Lucidity is how 'awake' or alert you are during the experience. Meanwhile, awareness is how aware you are of your own identity (ego). For example, I have had a projection where I was blind during it (my nonphysical visual senses were not operating). However all my other senses were great including tactile and mind (I was very lucid during my blind foray).

The trick is to get all of your senses working. Eventually I dragged my blind self to my living room where I stood up and my nonphysical optics kicked in. Oh and on a sidenote, my living room had beautiful streaks of amber gold colored light entering in through the window. The RTZ just looks so much more awesome than the physical.

It depends. When you got out of your body, were you in a different house or environment? That usually indicates a wake-induced lucid dream. However, if you were in your house and the only difference was that your body was not there, then congrats! You made it to the real time zone (RTZ) and your subconscious kept your body from appearing. Learn to tame that beast.

Kiwibonga brings up a very widely held view that lucid dreams are actually OBE. However, I tend to disagree. At best, they are a heavily influenced subconscious focus level. At worst, its all in there --->  

They almost seemed to appear with a feeling of my head rising above of the water. While it felt impossible to fly further up, I still held the thought in mind about my intent to go elsewhere, and much further as decided earlier.
Suddenly, my whole awareness shifted as a completely new environment appeared around me. It occurred like in the blink of an eye.

So as you were flying straight up, you got the feeling of your head rising above water?

This new environment was suddenly visible after you placed a strong intent to make it there?

What was the feeling of this supposed F27? Was there a difference in the air? Maybe everything seemed visually more bright? How did it compare to a standard lucid dream? Any further description will be great.

It is going to take months of training for you and your friend to actually leave your body for the first time. Then it's going to take months and a lot of luck after that to have the proficieny to time your projections at the right exact time. Even then you'll only have a few minutes.


So how does a web-cam sound?


:chicken:

Yes a difference in position matters when you wish to achieve complete physical relaxation.

I then for the next 2 hours felt as if my body was hovering a couple of inches up and down (not my entire body though),

The parts of your body that were not hovering were most likely muscles that were not relaxed enough. Practice relaxing those tight spots until every muscle is asleep/relaxed so you can enter a deep focus 10. The floating feeling that accompanies a mind awake/body asleep is natural and I believe it occurs because your angular gyrus in the brain is affected by this level of relaxation.

Oh and from a deep focus 10, its only a matter of deep breathing to get the vibrations going.[/quote]

Careful asking for a guide while in a LD (or while in the RTZ for that matter). Theres a very good chance that your subconscious created this woman.

Next time, try entering the RTZ from your lucid dream. Or even better, try to enter the 3D blackness and then summon a guide.

Hi,

Well, I would explain mine and your experience with regards to the radio sounds as a symbolic represention of consciousness attempting to tune into a particular source of information (whatever that source is).

Since in this instance it relies on an audio sense modality, the search will quite quickly be symbolically translated as radio sounds for lack of a more direct symbol that is immediately available.

In other words, the symbol of radio like sounds compensates for the lack of symbols to represent consciousness and its operations directly.

Likewise, static may mean not being entirely "tuned" in correctly...meaning consciousness was not entirely clear.

Hope that makes sense.

Hence, I don't think it's an actual radio station.

However, the answer to the the question whether "real" information can be accessed (including an actual radio station) is something I rather leave open for now (for myself included).

What's bodacious btw? My thesaurus failed to come up with an answer.

ha. Watch the 80s movie Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure.


Its interesting that you are pointing to the radio-like sounds as symbolic. Perhaps It was a symbolic representation of the telepathy of universal consciousness (? just a wild venture) which I wasn't ready or able to perceive directly in 3D Blackness?

I only say that because while attempting to reach F2 from F1, I once was flooded with imagery/sounds/experiences/emotions of other individuals for about 10 minutes.  During this 'flood', I lost my identity and awareness. It was almost as if I was about 20 different individuals in quick succession, unable to return to me. A little scary.


Oh, and a person I know who is a psychic, explained to me how they 'tune' into a person. They said that they will focus on that person and receive strong phasing-like imagery. Sometimes it will come in as images, movie clips, speech, letters, or they will just know. Interestingly, all of the information they receive is usually symbolic. It is rarely straight forward and has to be interpreted which makes accuracy difficult.

Why do you, me, psychics and projectors have to operate through this abstract layer of symbolism. Why can't we just directly experience the different levels of consciousness for what they really are.

Hi Warped,
We crossposted.

Yes, music is basically the same mechanism IMO as I said in the last post.

It's the same state. F21 is probably a little bit "wider" in scope...more universal...and F12 and F15 more local....

Music in this state is awesome I agree  

Most bodacious.


But could you explain what the 'radio-like' sounds I was hearing were?



It almost sounds like from your post above that you were actually tuning into radio frequencies (AM/FM) as opposed to audibly tuning into other focus levels.

Then I started to hear a voice. Not a voice directed to me, but more like a feeling of me "tuning in", or "listening in" on a monologue of sorts. The voice was that of Robert Monroe.

I then continued to "change channels", and listened to several different radio channels. Nothing really of interest, and the usual stuff, but I continued to be fascinated the process.

Right before I phased into the 3d Blackness (Fz), I heard the most vivid and amazing playing of 311's Amber. Right after I projected into the blackness, the tune changed to a radio-like sound. I could people talking and their thoughts, and sometimes I would hear 'static' (although it wasn't really static, it was high and low pitched tones).

For the rest of my experience, I explored Fz as if my head/consciousness was an audio receiver that allowed me to hear some really bizarre things.

Try meditating in the lotus position.  :meditate: Just becareful once you start to 'float', you might hit the ceiling

Sorry, that was not related to projections (runlola is right). The most uncomfortable feeling you'll get during a projection is vibrations and they aren't too bad.

Since I'm such a nice guy, here's a list of my most important factors in a successful exit:

While attempting to exit your body, maintain a slight curiosity but don't become anxious or excited. You need to control your emotions or else you will be thrown out of the trance state.

Try your exits in the morning. Wake up after 6 hours of sleep, stay up for 15 minutes, and then try exiting. I have had 4 out of 5 successful attempts using this technique.

Practice your relaxation and reaching deep levels of focus. You HAVE to learn to silence all internal dialog. Each time you think about the exam you have to study for or the project at work, you will be taking a step back.[/list:u]

I hope this helps you realize the importance of focus and control.

Recently I phased into the void and a field of lights appeared when I placed intent to leave the void.

Here is a quick and dirty photoshop of the field of lights in the void that I witnessed:




Interesting how it almost looks like stars in space.

Last night I had my second OBE. I got to the vibrational state and willed myself out. Immediately I started flying (that's what I like to do most) and found myself over the Interstate at night. I decided it would be fun to swoop down on cars like a WWII dive bomber. I landed on the roof of one car and decided to look into the windshield. As I did the driver and his passenger looked at me, freaked out and started yelling and screaming. The vehicle started to swerve all over the road. I was then pulled back and that was the end of it.

I had a blast last night! Going OOB is the most fun you can have with your pants on!  :applause:

What an awesome dream!

Yeah I can see why people doubt if they projected (I sometimes do). Once you are touring the RTZ, it feels SUPER real. However, once we are focused back in the physical, we try to analyze it and it gets muddled. I can't explain it, but thinking about the experience with our brains makes the OBE seem distorted, choppy, and slightly dream like.

And some of the absurd reality fluctuations that occur in the RTZ can also make one doubt the experience. One example is I decided to visit my aging orange cat. However, when I actually viewed her in the RTZ, she appeared a healthy gray cat with a beautiful coat (probably what my subconscious desired...?)

Well, I have a couple of questions to u guys who have OBE'ed or AP ed.
I have seen a lot of post dealing with how to experience AP but no one seems to talk about to get back in?
Also when u AP do u see the astral body? If so, what is its shape? If it is just like ur physical  body, then do u AP with ur clothes on?

sorry just some newbie questions.
I hope someone can help me...

To get back in? Haha, you'll be back in before you know it. The second you even think about your physical body, you are there. Try to think of it, not as actually leaving your body but having a 'copy' of your consciousness and you can focus on both.

So don't ever worry about not getting back in your physical body. Once you are out all you have to do is think about your body. Your focus shifts to your physical body and you are there.

If you focus on your astral body it will look like what you want it to. Mine looks like my normal physical body, but only the waist up is present. Bellow that is nothing, just trailing energy.

Don't think too much about what happens once you are out. Its going to take a while to actually get there. And once you do get out, you'll only last for 1-10 seconds before you get pulled back in.

I think I got the idea of phasing.

But it look a lot more difficult than trying to do a regular exit technique.

And it look way less fun , when I exit , the sensation is so good is incomparable to anything , what do you think ?

Do you think with phasing you really are going in the same astral as an exit technique ? Because im sure it could happen with phasing that you enter a dream or a lucid dream and you think its a astral trip.

I think it's a lot of fun. The snippets of imagery that appear in your mind are really absurd. You could spend days trying to understand the symbolic meaning of a particular image. However when it is actually happening, just pay attention to the image and 'feel' it. Once the image is gone, let others take its place.

Sometimes the snippets of imagery make sense. For example when the imagery begins to look like my rundown, then it shows that my subconscious is internalizing the rundown.

I think we are going 'inside' ourselves with phasing. I believe the astral is actually our subconsciousness' interpretation of the physical world. That is why so many reality disruptions occur and no two people see it the same way.

Phasing is very different from a lucid or regular dream. The feeling of it, what you experience and see, and your 'state' of awareness are different. Oh, the shift into phasing is more pronounced than with a dream.

think of it as there being no astral...but your own subconscious landscape for your shaping

Yes. However, once you phase into your own subconscious, you can use it as a springboard to enter other 'worlds'. Or you can use it to phase into the traditional RTZ (which is our subconscious' interpretation of the physical world).

I spoke to someone who told me it was an anxiety dream. I remember being scared out of my wits after having these dreams, which were often just simple geometric shapes, patterns or lines...

Wow. When I was a child, I had a terrifying dream which involved simple points. These points would then grow to cubes (like the 3d cube you would normally sketch) and these cubes would grow to amazing sizes. Then some of these shapes would shrink. I woke up in a panic.

In another dream, I had various circle shapes that would grow wayyy to big and almost consume me. Once again, I'd wake up in a sweating panic.

Lucid Dreams are good too, but those are few and far between.

Really? Try projecting (or phasing) in the morning using a timer to wake you up in 10,15,20,15,10 minute intervals. The timer will 'startle' you into lucidity during a dream or awaken you from sleep to try a projection.
This method has given me lucid dreams on 2 out of 3 attempts, along with 2 successful full body projections.

Just a quick addition, the walk in theory would still require a 'genesis' at some point. That is, there must still have been a moment where life began - so it doesn't answer that question.

I would have to go with the "big bang"

Interestingly, some modern theoretical physicists believe that there have been an infinite number of big bangs and will continue to do so. That would explain why gravity and base elements were present at the perfect ratios/measurements necessary for gases and stars to form, eventually leading to life.

Each time gravity was too strong, the universe would collapse back in on itself. Too weak? It would expand too fast, nothing would form and quickly it would reach its limits. Perfect? Well thats now.