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i feel drugs are a viable option, specificly certain tryptamines and phenethylamines. MDMA is good for group emotional therapy... like bonding with your mom after years of fighting...

but the tryptamines and phenethylamines is where the real magic takes place... these are the tool of the ancient shamanistic cultures.

but these paths are not for the faint of heart.
remember, these shamans did not live our lives, they lived simple, rural lives... mostly by themselves or with their teacher. the strains of society were not a part of their program.

do you think you could take LSD several times a week for years on end? i can assure you, it will take much practice in order to become adept at using these substances...
and this practice will slowly tear you to pieces.
most shaman were half crazy anyways, atleast according to "society".....

so if you are not worried about wandering the streets in your underwear with a tin foil hat.. then by all means... begin your practicing....
if you can retreat from society, you stand a better chance (of not getting arrested or locked away). but when all is said and done, you will probably have an extremely hard time relating with anyone aside from those on your path.

these drugs are certainly not crutches... to properly use them takes just as much work and will power as meditation, but they are deceptive because they offer instant results...
but there lies the double edged sword...
without the mental fortitude to withstand this instant results, too much stress can be applied to ones psychological state.

ive been down this road before, and i had to abort things eventually due to lack of a true teacher, and difficulties with society.
not to mention its hard on the body... so much puking.... and most of those plants NEVER taste any better, they just start tasting worse and worse.
the mere SMELL of ayahuasca makes me gag.

anyways, if you are still interested, or would like to dabble, then get away from the kiddy excrement (MDMA, THC, ETC) and look to south america... Mushrooms, ayahuasca, are 2 good sources. ayahuasca is an orally active form of DMT.... the grand father of ALL tryptamines (LSD and Mushrooms fall under this umbrella)

in the Phenethylamine family we have cacti, such as peyote or san pedro.....

i prefer natural plant sources, but i also used to aquire synthetic sources... but they were legal back then, i dunno if they are around anymore.. 5-meo-DIPT, 2-ct-7, etc....

all the important chemical allies can be found and extracted from plants, these plants are readily available online... just gotta do your homework...

Required reading
Pihkal by shuglan
Tikal by shuglan
and the teaching of don juan by carlos castinada.
and seperate reality by castinada...
i actually found seperate reality to be a better book, but plant substances are not the main focus.

Good luck, may your will be stronger than mine.

-HD

best to smoke it....
prepair yourself as best you can... (find a good mental state)

have a sitter, salvia has strange gravity/vortex effects (being sucked into walls, out winows etc) sometimes the physical body is affected, you may find yourself out in the middle of the street if you are alone.

and hang on......

if you want to chew, then perhaps you may want to grow your own, i had 3 plants for a while, they are easy to grow.... and the bond you create with the plant will help smooth your introduction to her.

-HD

ok, heres a quick question ... sorry to hijack the thread, but i figure its a good place to ask.
im directing this towards the person in this thread who seems to have done a bit of work with magic.
i rarely dicuss this sort of stuff with anyone.
they warn against talking to people about magic, and for good reason.
give it a try sometime if you like, go to the local library, or ice cream parlor and start talking about ritual magic... see how long it takes before the person you are talking with thinks you are a wacko and runs away.

Ive found the Elements to be a system of classification, as most of magic is.... (or atleast thats what i gathered... numbers, names, colors, symbols, signs, sights, smells, body movements, body feelings.... to all of these are assigned an idea. the practice of working with these "tools" allows one to "think" on a different level, to immideatly associate an elaborate and detailed "idea" with a simple symbol. bypassing the normal though process where ideas are put into words....
then to have these ideas and symbols interact with each other.... and thats about as far as ive gotten...

i digress...

anyways my question is....
if a person exibits Too many qualities of a certan element, what can he do to balance himself
ha, theres even a clue in the last sentence of what element it is.....
anyways, i find myself to be harsh, logical, mentally dominating, sometimes i have great focus and can devour great amounts of information, yet most of the time i find myself wavering, unable to decide because both possibilities are equal.
my method of helping others consists of breaking down and eliminating the incorrect parts, rather than encouraging the correct ones...
i can be a real bastard sometimes, and i hate that about myself. sometimes i recoil in horror at the things i have done. I exibit too many negative charachteristics of a certain element, and i want to change...

but when it comes time to make a decision, i always seem to fall back on the same patterns.

is there a way to infuse myself with the opposite element in order to impose a little balance? to help me change the negative components of my personality? or would the introduction of another element cause  even more problems?

Actually, i think i already know what i need to do....
LBRP, every day, twice a day, maybe more....
Middle pillar, every day...
its like a boxer's 1-2 punch.... the best tool in his arsenal....

so what do ya think? will LBRP help me clear out this over-abundance of element in my personality?
or atleast rid myself of the negative qualities? sadly, this element does not posess many "good" qualities, its quite powerful i suppose, but very little good ever seems to come of it....

again, im not sure if i am even correct, but in studying the tarot, the minor arcana of these cards seems to have alot more negativity as compared to other elements.

i feel the menacing sounds and visions are just a flaw in my personality. i tend to greet new expirences with fear. but eventually i get used to them.....

recently, during paralysis, i have heard sounds, things moving around in the room... but i no longer fear them, and as such, their nature has changed from evil voices and dark figures, to just "noise".

I know its a difficult question, but in terms of "free will" what seperates an OBE from a lucid dream??

The simplest answer is: Your definition of what constitutes an LD and an OBE .
You can read many books by 'gurus' who impose structures and beliefs on all these experiences – such as LDs being a form of OBE, OBE being in the RTZ and AP being on the 'astral proper' etc – but to be honest, these gurus hold no greater truth than us. These constructs are just belief structures too. Is LD a form of OBE? Who knows?
My opinion of what APs, LDs and OBEs are is changing quite radically (i've been dropping a lot of unfounded dogma over the past few years). I'll perhaps write something up about it soon.

perhaps some of these structures that have been imposed can be of use.
if a system has been created and used by many many people over many many years, perhaps it grows in power....
some of this information may have been unlocked by those with greater skill and greater knowlege, and can be used by us...
if the groundwork has been layed, why not use it? im talking about things like buddhism, yoga, western occultism, and the like.... these systems have been around for several hundred to thousands of years.... they also seem to overlap perfectly in certain areas (think middle pillar, and chakras)
i cant help but to belive that certain symbols gain power as they are used... perhaps they are dredged up from our subconcious...
i dunno....
i know nothing...



-HD

im not very skilled, but id like to think i am well read, so perhaps i can answer a few questions.

the book is certainly worth it.
its over 500 pages and i couldnt put it down.
but it is a bit hard to put it all into practice due to the wealth of information.

there is also a book titled "Mastering astral projection" by bruce and another author. this book takes portions of astral dynamics and breaks them down into daily "lessons" and excercises.
basically its a 90day crash course.
its very good for organizing astral dynamics into workable lessons.

not sure what u are asking in #3.

and as for #4, im not sure if it would have a Direct effect on martial arts.
what are you thinking of specifically?
tai chi? Qi Gong?
or something a bit more external.
Karate, Aikido, Muy Thai?

i suppose the patience and dicapline needed to work though hours and hours of tedious, and difficult work would help in any aspect of life. it will give strength to your will power.

and that will help you in every thing you ever do.
Study, work, play, friendships, everything.....

strangely enough, the night in question, i had a good 5 hour block without interruption.... right in the middle is when the awakening happened..

i guess ive become conditioned to sleep very lightly when at work... so i can hear the alarms going off.

perhaps this is all a "wake up" call....
stop reading and start practicing.
ive been reading metaphysical books for years now.

heh, it all started from Cosmic Trigger by RAW...
then golden dawn, crowley, regardie, kraig, bruce, etc, etc.....

years of reading, and such little time actually practicing... something always gets in the way...
lack of willpower i suppose...
or fear.
most likely fear.

its nice and comfortable not knowing.
when one reads about something, its easy to digest the information and think "wow thats interesting"
its something completly different to have it happen to you... to become "Real".

well, like it or not, things i have read about are becoming "real".
now, do i ignore these things or take it as a gental nudge in a certain direction....
ive been lucky enough to have these expirences without any practice, sort of a movie trailer...

now that ive had some time to digest and discuss them, i find them rather interesting and attractive.

for instance, the feeling of my "leg" as it "floated" off the bed (or perhaps out of my body) i could FEEL my leg, yet it was not like in solid state. when it moved up, it was not controled by muscles, there was no effort, no strain, it just floated on air....

it was unlike a dream as well, most of the time my movements in dreams are slow and cumbersome, as if i was wading though muck.
like when you try to hit someone in a dream, and you have no power, or when running, slow, heavy..

This was totally unlike that.... i was light.... lighter than ive ever felt...
i felt free....

and this was only my LEG that im talking about... no sight, no sounds, no flying.... just my leg moving what felt like 1 foot off/out of my body.

i can only imagine what it must feel like to be completely OUT....

So there is a part of me that is very excited and curious.
and another part of me that is scared to death.

im 26 years old, and id like to think ive done alot in life... (old enough that know that i dont know nothin')
to have a new set of expirences like this open up to me is a bit jarring....

next move is on me.

-HD

the question to be asking is not "CAN i levitate"
it should be "WHY do i want to levitate"

Why spend 10 years learning to levitate 3 feet, when it takes me 10 seconds to climb a ladder..

why spend 20 years to learn to levitate 300 feet, when it takes me 20 min to book a hot air balloon ride......

there are far better things to devote your time to...

read books untill you are blue in the face, and practice the BASICS for months on end.
if you can keep that up for 6 months, then move on one more step. etc....

long process

there is no shortcut really.. its like asking how to become really fast, strong and smart.
there is no easy way, you practice, study and work out.

you say you have no patience, well thats just not gonna fly.... your willpower needs to be finely tuned. which means doing things that you dont want to do... because they are boring, or too basic, or u just dont hve the time for them...

-HD

I tend to think its because I'm not 100% comfortable when i sleep at work.

I have a hard time falling asleep as is, when I'm away from home it gets worse....

also, i am woken up several times during the night to work...

I'm guessing that when I'm home, I'm comfortable, so when these moments arise when i wake up paralyzed, i just fall back asleep and don't even recall the awakening...

-hd

i feel the menacing sounds and visions are just a flaw in my personality. i tend to greet new expirences with fear. but eventually i get used to them.....

recently, during paralysis, i have heard sounds, things moving around in the room... but i no longer fear them, and as such, their nature has changed from evil voices and dark figures, to just "noise".

I know its a difficult question, but in terms of "free will" what seperates an OBE from a lucid dream??

heh, i was just being silly with my last post....

anyways, ive had another episode with a strange menacing dark figure standing right next to me while paralized....

this is starting to become more common for me...
it used to be once every few years, now its once every few months...

they dont bother me anymore, i realise that its just part of the territory...

but what seperates an OBE from a dream?

-HD

Hello again, Ive posted here once before about my experiences...
no replies.. but oh well

anyways, heres another situation i found myself in last night...
first a brief background.

Ive read a few books on projection, but never had a willed projection... any experiences could be chalked up to dreams.

i haven't been practicing any sort of energy work in years.

within the last year i have had a few sleep disturbances at work (yes i can sleep at my job sometimes)
mostly sleep paralysis, and hearing strange things while in bed.

So.....
last night around 3 am, (at work) i found myself in a dream. the dream had no bearing on reality aside from it taking place at work. during the dream, i became detached..... i was no longer the "focus" of the dream, i was more like a supporting character.

i sat down in a chair and watched the dream, i became aware of a "breathing" sound. seconds later i found myself back in bed. i didn't try to move right away, i began to hear "movement" in the room. it sort of sounded like there was something in the bed with me moving around. Ive had this happen to me before, but the sounds were much more sinister.

since i was prepaired, i just ignored the sound, and thought this may be my chance to project... eventually i started feeling a warm "buzzing" for lack of a better word on my "sides" i suppose you could say i felt it on my arms, but i dint think i was aware of my body in terms of "arms and legs"

the 1st thing that came to mind was the rope projection, so i imagined i was climbing a rope.... nothing happened... the warmth stopped, and i was just lying there.... i think i moved a finger or something and the episode was over....

i remained still, and moments later, i began to feel the warmth again.... this time it was stronger... i thought that instead of a rope, i would try climbing a ladder.... so i imagined myself climbing a ladder.... (the warmth/buzzing only lasted for a few seconds before i started climbing) This time i did feel something

after climbing the "ladder" for 2 or 3 seconds, i began to feel my body swaying, as if the bed was bucking me off.... my axis was still "lying down" this swaying then moved from my center to my legs.... i could feel them sort of floating off the bed...

i could see nothing, and after the swaying feeling, i suppose i moved again, because it was over..... i then woke up and wrote a few things down to remember.

i only remember "seeing" twice during this whole episode, I'm not sure if i just imagined what i was seeing.... one i can confirm as real, when i awoke from the dream, i saw the position of the pillow by my arms....

and once during the episodes, i saw the lockers on the other side of the room.... this couldn't be possible with my normal eyes, because i cannot see that far without glasses.

..... i wonder why these sort of things only happen to me when I'm NOT at home... perhaps its because I'm slightly uncomfortable when not sleeping at home?

i really ought to start working on this... see if i can will a projection, rather than random episodes..

-hd

as far as moving objects......
sure its possible, anything is possible... but why would you want to?

does moving sheets of paper further your great work?

if you spent the next 20 years teaching yourself to move a sheet of paper out of body, or with your mind, im sure you would achive it...

personally, id rather learn something useful, like medicine, or write a book, or create beautiful music...

-hd

excellent.....
thanks for the input, excellent forum

Hello all....
Ive searched around here on and off for a few years. Ive finally decided to ask a question. You see, im always a bit skeptical, yet i try to keep an open mind. I would like to share a few experiences with you and get your take on them.
Ive had an episode or 2 which could be OBE's or they could just be strange dreams... im having trouble drawing a line between the 2.

heres a little background
I have Never had a willed OBE, I have had quite a few lucid dreams. Most of the time i end up losing awareness and fall back into the dream. or the dream "ends" and i end up in another one without awareness..
I can never get anything done in the Lucid dream because shortly after becoming aware, im either too excited and the dream ends, or as i said before i end up in another dream without awareness...

I generally have good dream recall, if i talk out or write down keywords i can remember dreams in good detail.

I have spent time dabbling in Western Occultism (ive never gotten past LBRP and some Tarot Meditation)
My biggest problem is lack of will... i have never fully Incorporated the routine into my life, something or the other always gets in the way, and eventually the entries in my journal stop.

Anyways, on to the experiences...
i will start with the one major one, i cannot tell if this is just a dream or the real thing.
I was in the process of reading Astral Dynamics when it happened.
I was visiting friends in Utah, and staying in a guest room. I fell asleep on the couch, but was woken by a urge to urinate. I "sat up", and started to head to the bathroom, i got about 3 or 4 feet away when i suddenly lost the ability to move forward, i just "fell" to the ground. I tried to get up, but i was only able to spin around in circles. the odd thing is, my vision was as if i was directly on the floor, (if i actually fell to the floor my vision would be a few inches above the floor, this was like my eyeballs were actually on the floor). oh, and speaking of vision, i was able to see without glasses, normally i am quite blind without them
I spun around for a short while, and finally woke up in my body.
during the dream/projection i dont recall seeing my body sleeping, or my projected body... but then again, i was not looking for them... i thought i was getting up to go pee.... and i normally dont check if my body is there when i get up to pee

Now, i am very impressionable when i sleep... If i sleep with the TV on, 80% of the time whatever is on the TV invades my dreams. This can be quite scary if the news is one while i am sleeping, i recall having a dream about a man hitting people on the head with a brick. I woke up thinking "wow, what a crazy dream" only to find out that it was REALITY!
not a crazy dream, a crazy world

anyways, i was reading astral dynamics at the time, so perhaps the reading sparked this sort of dream?

My other strange sleep disturbance happened at work. This one was much more "real".
I have a job where i can sleep, but its sort of frowned upon. I try not to be asleep when the next crew comes on.
anyways i was on the brink of sleep, i knew the next crew would be coming on soon so i was trying to stay alert and listen for them. I kept hearing them moving around downstairs, then realize i was dreaming.
I probably fell asleep and woke up 3 or 4 times in a 10min time span. during this span i had a bout of sleep paralysis. I was disturbed by it, because i thought i heard someone coming upstairs, i was finally able to move my arm to grab my glasses and act like i was awake, but no one was there.
So i went back to "sleep"and had ANOTHER bout of paralysis... but this time it was very different, this time a voice spoke to me, a very dark sinister voice yelled at me, it either said "GET UP" or "GET OUT"... either way i was really freaked out...
The voice sounded like it was RIGHT NEXT TO MY EAR
i remembered the part about scary voices before projection, so i was able to compose myself, and rather than fight it, i knew i could just fall asleep and it would be over.....

the paralysis and the voice happened quite recently, i haven't read astral dynamics in years, so i cant chalk it up to "suggestion". and i certainly did not feel like i was dreaming it, i was very alert, awake, and paralyzed....

So what do you all think, do these sound common? or am i just dreaming things?

Ive talked to a few people about this, and no one has ever had anything like this happen to them, but they also dont remember much of their dreams.....

-HD