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Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for your comments and advice, and I sincerely hope it -is- just my imagination.

Luckily, I'm going on a two week holiday starting tomorrow, a canal boat trip that should be a lot of fun, if I'm still having issues upon my return, I'll let everyone know.

Unforunately I don't know any other people who I think could be particularly useful in this- and I hope you are correct, it might be that I am imagining it.

Flipcza, the unusual thing is that I haven't been trying to astral project in that time, I haven't done anything particularly mystical in a long time, having lost faith in it, therefore... it seems unlikely that the entity- if there is one- was attracted that way.

Because he said it! He couldn't possibly have said it was like that if it couldn't be! Gosh, next you'll be saying politicians don't always say what they know to be true!

For a month or two about two years ago I would suffer very badly from severely disturbing dreams, as well as intense bouts of deja-vu, strange in that I could have sworn I knew what would be said before it was said, and I would remember dreaming it the night before... amongst the terrifying dreams. The last year or two though, and there has been nothing. Pretty much since I stopped trying to bring about Astral Projection, the dreams went away, so did the deja-vu.

But I've never really thought there was anything to it, everyone gets nightmares occassionally, right? And it seems likely if I focus on that area of my life, I'm likely to imagine things... it is the persistence of this... thing. And the fact I haven't done anything spiritual in a long while which makes me nervous.

Now, usually I'm pretty skeptical of my own strange 'mystical' experiences, but... I figure I might as well describe what has been bothering me with this one, simply because its been so... persistent.

For the last month or so I've had a real problem with the doors in my home, specifically the upstairs doors- to my bedroom and the bathroom, as well as to a storage room. If I should hesitate for even a moment before opening the door, I get this... image of a coweled figure with a goats skull for a head standing beyond the doorway. Other times, when I'm focused on a task upstairs, I get a feeling of something right behind me.

Now, I know I'd completely dismiss this out of hand- it sounds so darn corny, so stereotypical, I can barely believe that there is a problem myself... but... there is, and whether its a mental block of mine that has only recently arisen, or a true brush with the supernatural, its starting to effect me quite seriously.


So...

help?

The ultimate truth? That's an easy one...


The universe doesn't care either way about humanity, there is no ultimate battle, there are no sides other than those we make for ourselves. The universe isn't black or white, it isn't even grey... The universe is a bright yellow.

Now, lets see if this is responded to with anger or with understanding, eh?

Bush killing evil does not intrinsically make Bush Good. Bush has also done more to attack the very basis of your country than any other president that I know of.

Nazi's killed Communists, does that make them good?

[Why So Glum, Chum?]

Why So Glum, Chum?

"Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb"- Dark Helmet- Spaceballs.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" Edmund Burke

Well, it took me long enough, but now, finally, I have decided to sit down and write up a proper rant on the foundation of my own personal philosophy, and how I apply it to the world at large today. It may be rambling and incoherent in places, or maybe it'll be utterly mindblowingly amazing, I guess we won't know until we get there. I just feel that, given how I think I have appeared in recent discussions it is important that I put all my cards on the table, so to speak.

A major question in philosophy today is also a simple one- Where did this all come from? Well, it seems simple to me at least, where did the universe come from? Why, friend, why do you suggest that the universe came from anywhere? Why did it begin? How did it begin? Well, what we are dealing with here isn't as simple as the material universe, what we are dealing with is... everything. It may seem, and a good many intelligent men have fallen into the trap of believing, that because everything in it has a start and an end, the universe itself must fall prey to those laws. Not so, say I! Not so!

What evidence do I base this suggestion upon? Well, its simple really. I don't believe that anything truly has a beginning, or an end. I believe that everything that has been, still is, and everything that is, has been.

The human sensory system is only equipped to deal with a truly microscopic amount of the data that the universe throws at it, indeed, it is estimated that perhaps less than one millionth of the possible sensory data that the universe throws at people every day is actually processed. Couple this with the fact that the human mind is known to repress, distort, decay and destroy the information that actually does make it into the system and it soon becomes clear that, as a species, we truly are very badly equipped to deal with the universe.

But how does this relate to time? Well, I'll tell you.

I believe in a combination of the Epicurean Hypothesis and some more... esoteric thought that I have picked up along the way, simply, I believe that time as most humans understand it does not exist. I believe that the universe simply... is, and that it has had an infinite amount of 'time' in which to come to a state in which we can observe it as we do currently. I believe that the universe is constantly changing, and as such, we change with it, however, as time is infinite, it is my belief that humanity arose to fit the universe, not the other way around, and- more- as the universe expands and changes, humanity itself changes to try and perceive more of it.

In the past few decades it seems that massive advances have been made in the field of Astral Projection, we are getting more and more people claiming to have had Out Of Body Experiences, and more and more people claiming an ability to induce them far easier. This, to me, is a clear sign of the evolution of the human race towards being able to perceive more of the universe, the material realm is not all there is, there is... more. We do not know what it is yet, we have had thousands of years to try and understand the material realm and we are still grappling with elements of that, but as we progress, it is my belief that we will come to understand and be able to understand more of the universe.

However, I strongly believe that in coming to understand the material plane, humanity has gotten itself locked into certain modes of thought, humanity is no longer willing, as a whole, to challenge beliefs. It is not willing to accept new ideas, or to create them or voice them for fear of being shouted down by its peers. Humanity seems to be falling into a trap, and it is one which challenges our very spiritual development.

Now, this is where my beliefs begin to sound a little crazy, but please, at least try and consider them before shouting them down.

Have you looked at the world around you lately? Man kills man, man pollutes the air we breathe, poisons the food we eat, the water we drink. Man corrupts and kills and slaughters needlessly, exploits man all for the over-riding concept that mankind has taken instead of enlightenment or happiness, instead of joy or creativity. No, man no longer cares for these things. Now men kill men in the name, not of God, for God didn't serve their purposes, no, man now kills man for profit and nothing else.

Profit. Money. Riches. Fame. Glory. Possessions.

These are the new enemies of spiritual development, mankind has created its own prison, and the bars are locked into place in the minds of children from birth itself. Money is the new God, and as mankind progressed beyond the need of God, it has snuggled itself firmly into the grip of Profit. The Machine, that is, society, now crushes its cogs and and any who go against its cogs in the name of greater profit, greater advances, better ways to produce the stuff that The Machine tells its cogs they NEED, better, more efficient ways to slaughter the cogs of other Machines that go against The Machine (what a laugh, in reality, almost all of The Machines work together for the betterment of the top Cogs)

It has now reached the point where it is almost impossible to imagine a world without Money, without the Holy Dollar/Euro/Pound/Yen, it is an undeniable FACT that the governments of the world are corrupt, bought and sold like any other commodity, it is an undeniable fact that the exploitation of hundreds of millions of people feeds that top ten percent, although what they eat is paid for in blood.

It is said in the Principia Discordia, that Eris came to the prophets and said "You have built for yourselves psychic suits of armor, and clad in them, your vision is restricted, your movements are clumsy and painful, your skin is bruised, and your spirit is broiled in the sun."

I believe this to be the case- humanity as a whole has become so unwilling to accept new ideas that it is the duty of those of us who are a little bit closer to understanding the next step must try and do something. Mankind is killing itself, slowly, but it is killing itself. It is destroying the planet that birthed it in the name of Profit, and any who dare to speak out against it are discredited or written off as crackpots.

But I digress, there are still a few more fundamental points of my philosophy to impart to you. The most important I think is the concept of Chaos, and once I have finished outlining that, I'll stop this rant, get a nice cold drink, (no doubt paid for by the blood of a few dozen orphan children somewhere) and then post this up and let you all have a look, and tear it to pieces.

Chaos.

What is chaos? To me, Chaos is the only thing which can be applied to the entire universe, I classify myself as a Discordian, and as such I personify Chaos as Eris, (I don't care if other Discordians don't, haha!) I believe that the entire universe is now in Chaos, and has always been in Chaos. However, as 'time' has progressed, the Chaos has seemed to settle into patterns, and it is these patterns that Scientists classify, and, the more fundamental patterns, which have allowed humanity to evolve to the point where we can perceive the Chaos without going utterly insane.

However, I believe that, although there is definitely Order in the Chaos, that is, there are definitely patterns and systems which seem to have arisen, it is in the nature of the universe to change, and thus these patterns and systems are never, ever, going to be applicable to everything in the universe. For every rule, there will be an exception, and for every exception, there shall be a new rule, which shall itself have exceptions... and so on.

As touched upon earlier, I believe that humanity is evolving to be able to perceive more of what is already out there, however, I also believe that humanity is singularly unsuited to this task- we have already crafted for ourselves the cage of Money, I believe also that human though processes tend to fall into patterns and orders and try to question everything else as little as possible. Thus, in order to evolve, we must never stop questioning things.

This is the final trap that I warn you of, and something that the two quotes used to start this little rant touch upon, the trap of apathy. Humans try not to question things, and they also try to play down their own importance. "Oh what does the state of the world matter?" They cry, "What can I do? I am just one man!"

SO WHAT?!

Gandhi was just one man, Martin Luther King, Hitler, Stalin, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, even Jesus, these were all men who dared to stand up for what they believed in, and are now known as heroes or villains, these were all Just Men, just like you, although admittedly I find it more difficult to think of great Women, I know for a fact they they are out there too! ONE PERSON CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

Of course, you people probably find this hard to believe in the overwhelming force of todays apathy, why would everything seem to tell you that you can't possibly make a difference if the opposite was true, right? Besides, you need to work hard to keep up the payments on your house, car, holiday, loan, mortgage. You need more money for the latest technological gadget, the latest clothes, the latest way to disguise how horrible the human body is, right?

No. Wrong. All wrong. This is what The Machine mentioned earlier wants you to think. What you must realize is that you can rise above this. You too can be a great man/woman/hermaphrodite.

And I know that I am going to try my best to be just that, I am going to do what I believe is right, and damn the consequences.

Or Kill Me.

Alas, I believe the site will automatically edit the word 'bonk' if I try and post it.

Also, the PD itself pretty much says not to hold anything sacred, one shouldn't believe anything one reads, and if you don't like something, you should change it. So why not edit this parable to fit the situation if I deem it necessary?

Just curious.

Okay, first off, there is no paradox in saying that God is both separate from us and not separate from us. Saying that God is not separate from us implies that God needs us, for without us there would not be God, which I do not believe. However, I do believe that God is a part of us. There is no reason why God cannot exist both within us and without us at the same time, there is no paradox.

Secondly, a verb is an action word- a word used to describe doing something, perhaps I am now guilty of getting too bogged down in the words of what you are trying to say and not the meaning myself, but it seems to me that describing God as a verb does not remove the necessity for something to have begun him/her/it, what was it that started the action of God?

However, I believe that what we are verging on here is the Cosmological argument-    1. Everything has a cause(s).
  2. Nothing can cause itself.
  3. Therefore, everything is caused by another thing(s).
  4. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.
  5. Therefore, there must be a first cause.

However, personally, I do not find this argument too convincing. I can explain upon request, but frankly I doubt my detailed rebuttal of the cosmological argument would be terribly interesting to most people- and its the weekend, I wasn't planning to start my philosophy revision until Monday.

However, I would like to make one final point- if God is not separate from us, that is clearly a limitation upon the power of God. If God is responsible for the creation of the universe, why would this power be limited? Unless, of course, you are coming from the standpoint of God as an impersonal force. In which case I am forced by Discordian dogma (and maybe Catma) to agree, and add that the impersonal forces are female, and called Eris.

Thanks for the reply, and I hope this has explained a little more how what I'm saying is not just metaphysical double talk.
[/i]

[Moderator Action: I am splitting a thread and making a new one because this is an important topic. The Background: In a previous thread, James S. said that we needed to stop thinking of ourselves as being separate from God and that the idea itself is "the greatest blasphemy of all time." James also introduced the metaphor that God is a VERB. The following is kai wren's initial response to James and then all following posts.~Beth]

How so?

I do not see how God -must- not be separate from us, it makes more sense to believe that God is both separate from us and not separate from us at the same time, does it not?

God created the universe, God also created man, I truly believe that God is part of everything and everyone, I do not wish to derail the thread with this concept, but to say that the greatest blasphemy is that God was ever separate from us seems... absurd.

God must have been separate from us in the Beginning to have created us, if indeed he/she/it created us at all. If God did not create us, is such a being God? At least in the sense many people understand the concept.

I do not believe so.

oh my goodness i'm so sorry I don't know what i was thinking typing that post how could I of bin so stupid. your absolutely right and what was previously said is correct also. I don't know how i got so confused with myself. I am practically laughing at how stupid I am...

very well said by the way and thank you for arguing whatever point i thought i had and thank you for the quick reply also. :S

No problem, friend! I just felt I should clarify what was previously said- I am glad to have enlightened you, though really you shouldn't be so hard on yourself! Many people don't even consider good and evil in their lives; you are not stupid merely for holding an opinion other than mine!

Everything is perception, yes, but how does this detract from life?

The human body and mind is only equipped to process a tiny, tiny fraction of the data that this universe throws at us. This is a fact, but life is all about experiences, good and evil, even reality, doesn't come into life.

My philosophy is simple- live life to the full, try and experience as much as possible, if one experiences much, and thinks much, and explores as many perceptions as possible, that is a life full of enrichment and wonder.

Life is what you make it, what you perceive it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

So try and perceive the best life possible for you, and your life will be 'good'

Or not.

I don't believe in good and evil.

Every action can be perceived as good in some light, every action can be perceived as evil, it all depends upon which perceptions you use for the moment.

Good and Evil implies there are absolutes, there are no absolutes. There is no enemy, anywhere.

I'm presuming that this was not sent by PM because he wants others to comment on it. And so I shall.

Mustardseed: It is an undeniable fact that the final version of the bible was ratified by committee, not by God or even by Jesus, and that much was left out. Jesus did exist as a man, there are records which prove this, however whether or not he had the powers attributed to him is, obviously, much of the issue in this debate.

Regardless, I find the idea of placing ultimate faith in a so-called Holy Book, when said book has been compiled and edited by mere mortal men, ludicrous. The bible is not infallible, as those who compiled it were mortal- and thus open to error.

Indeed, the Church has made vast changes to Dogma post the fact- I forget where it was- but at some point in the middle ages it was decided to accept the fact that women should have souls. Until that point, they didn't! What does that mean? Until that point in time women who died just... ceased to exist?  

And of course, new evidence is bound to be uncovered as time passes- the world isn't that large a place, and humans are always going into 'new' parts of it.

But... where you place your faith is entirely your own opinion.


Beth: I presented you with a new theme tune, unaware of the copyright policy. Goodbye theme tune  

I'm definitely not a christian (hail Eris) but my best friend is a Catholic, and he says this is exactly the reason he is a Catholic and not a Protestant- if you beat your kids, cheat on your spouse, lie, steal, and generally do a million and one things that Aren't Christian, you have to actually be sorry about it, sure, you can repent, but if you don't truly repent on a deep and personal level, you are damned.

As for good people who aren't Christians at all, the way I've always seen it is that the church pretty much has to say that, or they wouldn't have any followers- "Worship our God! It... doesn't matter if you don't, if you are good you'll still go to the good place but, it'd be really nice! Uh... please?"

Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

Indeed! This is what Discordianism is all about! A couple of nice quotes:

"If religion is the opiate for the masses, disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe."

and

"A discordian is forbidden from believing anything he reads"

Just goes to show... religions generally are about getting someone else to do your thinking for you, but there is at least one which is about getting you to think for yourself  

Totally not a double post, honest >_>

The sacred Chao is indeed an important part of Discordian thought, I have always thought of it as a coin, on the one side is order, on the other discord. I like to think of the coin as Chaos. To me, the Chao represents how life would be perfectly- both things in balance, but constantly moving, just as a coin would when flipped.

I tend to move towards the popular Discordian view that society today is far too imbalanced towards order than it is towards discord, I see this every day when I see the people around me... so choked by order and rules, regulations and needless restrictions that they have forgotten how to say NO to authority. The biggest visible symptom of this that I have seen is how little people care about each other these days... the average person has no respect for anyone else, no sense of politeness. I firmly believe that in the 'perfect' situation people would have a base level of respect for one another simply because they are human, not because of rules or regulations, which seems to be the only thing keeping my country from erupting in a violent racist bloodbath at the moment (UK)

Anyhoo... kinda gotten away from the point.

I think what you have said is very interesting, that one must reach a balance in oneself before it can be applied on a wider scale is a very, very interesting concept. How does one know that you have reached an inner balance? Balance is often associated with order, and therefore you would be right in saying that you differ from the majority of Discordians in your belief... the concept of restraint seems to be something that many of the discordians I have spoken to have difficulty with.

I would be very interested to hear more thoughts on balance and applying it to Discordian thought, at current I am very much staying away from the jake and ahem, "Mind Fornication" side of things, as I am fairly certain that not many people around me would see the funny side of it... and the fear of getting caught is quite large.

Anyway, in conclusion, I would like to know how you would suggest one goes about finding a balance between order and discord in oneself, and if you feel you have reached such a balance.

The sacred Chao is indeed an important part of Discordian thought, I have always thought of it as a coin, on the one side is order, on the other discord. I like to think of the coin as Chaos. To me, the Chao represents how life would be perfectly- both things in balance, but constantly moving, just as a coin would when flipped.

I tend to move towards the popular Discordian view that society today is far too imbalanced towards order than it is towards discord, I see this every day when I see the people around me... so choked by order and rules, regulations and needless restrictions that they have forgotten how to say NO to authority. The biggest visible symptom of this that I have seen is how little people care about each other these days... the average person has no respect for anyone else, no sense of politeness. I firmly believe that in the 'perfect' situation people would have a base level of respect for one another simply because they are human, not because of rules or regulations, which seems to be the only thing keeping my country from erupting in a violent racist bloodbath at the moment (UK)

Anyhoo... kinda gotten away from the point.

I think what you have said is very interesting, that one must reach a balance in oneself before it can be applied on a wider scale is a very, very interesting concept. How does one know that you have reached an inner balance? Balance is often associated with order, and therefore you would be right in saying that you differ from the majority of Discordians in your belief... the concept of restraint seems to be something that many of the discordians I have spoken to have difficulty with.

I would be very interested to hear more thoughts on balance and applying it to Discordian thought, at current I am very much staying away from the jake and ahem, "Mind Fornication" side of things, as I am fairly certain that not many people around me would see the funny side of it... and the fear of getting caught is quite large.

Anyway, in conclusion, I would like to know how you would suggest one goes about finding a balance between order and discord in oneself, and if you feel you have reached such a balance.

Hail Nay!

Eris is the Greek goddess of discord and strife. She is Ares' constant companion and follows him everywhere. Eris is sinister and mean, and her greatest joy is to make trouble. She has a golden apple that is so bright and shiny everybody wants to have it. When she throws it among friends, their friendship come to a rapid end. When she throws it among enemies, war breaks out, for the golden apple of Eris is the Apple of Discord. She did this once during the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, and this act brought about the Trojan War.


Eris has been adopted as the matron deity of the modern Discordian religion, which was begun in the late 1950s by Malaclypse the Younger and Lord Omar Khayam Ravenhurst. In the process, however, she has lightened up considerably in comparison to the rather malevolent Graeco-Roman original. A quote from the Principia Discordia, the first "holy book" of Discordianism, attempts to clear this up:

   One day Mal-2 consulted his Pineal Gland and asked Eris if She really created all of those terrible things. She told him that She had always liked the Old Greeks, but that they cannot be trusted with historic matters. "They were," She added, "victims of indigestion, you know."[1]

The story of Eris being snubbed and indirectly starting the Trojan War is recorded in the Principia, and is referred to as the Original Snub.

Hail Eris!

:lies:


Of all the religions, it is Christianity that I find the most confusing, it is often said that one should love God, that God loves us all, that repenting is the way to cleansing yourself of sin... but... the bible tells a very different story. For instance.

"For thus the LORD spoke thus to me with his strong hand upon me, and warned me not to walk in the way of this people, saying: 'Do not call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy, and do not fear what they fear, nor be in dread. But the LORD of hosts, him you shall regard as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.'"

In this quote it appears that God does not love us all, only those that worship Him, if you don't worship him, you should hold him as your 'fear and dread', but at least those who worship him should be free from that, right?

Not so! My personal favorite quote to disprove this is as follows:

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.   
2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.   (2:8-9)
If you ask God, he'll force heathens to be your slaves and help you "dash them in pieces."
2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.   
2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.   
2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.



Serve the lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Ah, doesn't sound like the kind of religion that would have people jumping around and singing jazzy tunes, does it? Well, how about the part of that lovely psalm that states that God shall makes slaves of the heathens? Not exactly the kind of message promoted by the church these days. But... then, it seems that most Christians these days pick and choose which parts of the bible to believe in... or at least follow, now, why is this?

Oh I know! Its because of the contradictions!  :applause:


In closing.

:inquisition: