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[COMPOSITE POSTS - SEE YOUR NAME IN BOLD]

COMPOSITE POSTS - SEE YOUR NAME IN BOLD


MisterJingo     MisterJingo      MisterJingo  

The most dramatic piece of personal proof I have experienced which suggests (to me) OBEs are more than a purely 'internal' state involved being seen by my sister while OBE.

Remember that this doesn't rule out telepathy. Being that this is ALL a dream, you are right now seeing what is inside of your own mind, AS IF you are looking at something external from you. You projected your mind out, then created separate points of view so that you can seem to be in an external world with external objects. Thus it make sense that the contents of your own mind can interact. It's all the same thing.

To cut the experience short, I became lucid in a dream where I was driving a car outside my parents house. I then awoke to the vibrations and so went OBE. I'm not sure why, but I went into my sisters room, deciding I would try and 'pull her out of body'.
When I got into her room (through the door) it was dark so I switched the lights on. In my perception the lights did come on, and so I went over to my sister and tried to pull her out.
In my experience I did manage to pull her out, and I showed her how to float, so we floating up until we were half way through the ceiling, my head and torso in the attic (which looked lit up too).
Anyway, my sister had no knowledge of my projections, but this was too real to ignore. So I asked her (attempting not to lead) if she had any interesting dreams the previous night. She was acting a bit freaky and didn't say much. But later that day when I asked her again, she told me show woke up in the night to find a 'black smokey looking' man standing over her bed reaching out for her. When I asked her what the time was when this happened, it near matched up with the time I saw when I returned to my body.
To me, this experience matched all my known criteria of being OBE, yet, I was still able to interact with some objects (the light switch).

VERY COOL man. Thank you for sharing. That's definitely worth remembering. I have had confirmed meetings in dreams, where once I saw someone wearing a particular shirt he always wears, and another saw me in some unusual astral garb I created to myself, and remember we had a short conversation (garbled on my part). He introduced the meeting to me without me having to say anything. I link it to the connection inherent within the same mind between all its thoughts/seeming parts. Perhaps if I ever work enough to get good enough again we can play around with astral/obe meetings and such. It'd be fun.




WarpedReality     WarpedReality     WarpedReality  

Moving physical items while out of body is not the only method of verification. For instance, I have used my cat and mom as verification. You'll find lots of other stories here on the forum about a person's personal source of verification. For your author Draja, that is their personal verification.

What do you think about it being a form or amalgamation along with dreams of telepathy?

Famous OBE researcher and author Robert Monroe received verification through retrievals. He would find someone 'trapped' between the physical and higher nonphysical levels (F23 I believe). While assisting them in their transition to a higher energy system, he would pick up information about their life such as name, address, place of death, hobbies, pets, etc. He would then research this information and it proved to be on dead on. The Monroe institute that Robert Monroe established actually had a department that would verify an individuals out of body retrieval.

I think Monroe's biggest verification came when he would meet his wife in out of body experiences while she was ill. Then right after she died in the hospital, the participants of the retrieval process at the Monroe Institute reported helping his wife make her journey to a higher energy level.(F27+).  If that isn't verification I don't know what is!

And in regards to moving items, no I have never successfully interacted with the physical while in the RTZ. There's too many reality fluctuations and I usually get focused on greater tasks. once out You might be interested in psychokinesis (or whatever the proper term is) where people use their minds to move items around in the physical. Take a look http://www.psipog.net

Thanks very much man for sharing.

They apparently do some interesting stuff. What are your thoughts that the afterlife is simply another form of the same grand overall dream, which needs to be forgiven in order to be woken up from?


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Two very great posts. I appreciate it. You both have expanded my information, and I appreciate it, and I hope I've helped you also.

Any further thoughts from you both on my questions, or on anything else.

P.S. Remember that my main point is that this is ALL a dream. I used to promote OBE like crazy, so want to inform my old haunts of my new findings. You can check some quotes out here:

www.therealalternative.info

Peace.

I've never moved anything.  Actually, going through walls and the inability to interact with the 'Real Time Zone' is one way I know I'm OB'ing.

Thank you for sharing CFTraveler!

It's not necessary to go through all the motions of determining whether or not OBEs are dreams by investigating OBE itself. You can simply become aware of the overall truth as explained in The Disappearance of the Universe, and everything else will come into perspective as your understanding of the truth increases.

Here are some of the things about OBEs and lucid dreams and such that I've become aware of, or become strong enough to accept, since becoming aware of truth.

Notice that some OBE authors had a more definite theory about astral projection than other authors. You can read the book The Practice of Magic by Draja Mickaharic. On pages 87 thru 89 in this book he mentions that while OBE one can lift physical objects generally up to about a third of their physical weight, write messages to leave for people in locked rooms, and eventually do just about anything they would otherwise be able to do if they were physically there.

And he definitely insists that concrete results can be obtained with astral projection, and that if concrete results cannot be obtained one is just indulging in self-delusion or fantasizing. He advises that these projected fantasies can very well involve a number other people.

Yet contemporary literature and authors, like Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce, and his subsequent 90-day training manual Mastering Astral Projection, mention things like reality fluctuations and slipping into the astral planes. How can you ever determine if it is a dream or not if you can simply explain away the dreamlike nature as a part of the experience itself?

Whereas before like with Draja you are either OBE or not, and if you are OBE you are seeing definite things and can do objective things like move physical objects (see The Practice of Magic, pages 87 thru 89), now if you 'get out' and everything is different that what you would expect, you are at the least experiencing a lucid dream, or you are either experiencing reality fluctuations, or you have faded into the astral dimension (see MAP page page 226).

Where is there room to determine if it is anything but a dream?? [You can use the 'search inside' feature at Amazon.com to review these pages.] The REAL alternative is much better (See The Disappearance of the Universe).

I've have personal discussion with a prominent author on OBE literature, and even after writing his book and teaching workshops and stuff as if it's all real, he told me he's still trying to find out if its real- still professing publicly that it's all real, even in the face of direct assessment that his experiences are dreams.

I had relations with a less prominent but very proficient 'out-of-body traveler', and when I was a rookie he had a rock solid veneer of knowing its true and real and having definite experiences. But as the years wore on and my own experience and literary knowledge increased I began to see where his enlightened discourses to me were really just rattling off of impromptu hypotheses about stuff he hadn't even experienced or developed yet.

And as we became actual friends he let down his guard some and informed me that he was still unsure of his experiences, trying to get me to master OBE so we can experiment together so he can determine why his experiences are different than several things as is written in books by others. Written accounts make the experience seem a lot more definite, or even a lot more fluid, than we often like to admit to ourselves is really the case with our own experiences.

How many OBE authors and practitioners are just putting forth theories, or actually trying to convince themselves with their own writings, being less than honest about their knowledge, surety, and/or abilities, or even just outright lying? And because many people are not aware of the REAL alternative, as clarified in The Disappearance of the Universe, and detailed in A Course in Miracles, we cling to the idea of out-of-body travel or whatever our chosen path or process is, trying to keep our sense of worth, and special-ness, and understanding intact.

There is a better way..

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Your thoughts please??

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And has anyone been able to actually move something physically as Draja suggests? I've been told by people they have, but those sources have become questionable. Have you? I've had people say they got out with the intent for instance to move a sheet of paper, but when they 'got out' there were two sheets of paper instead of the one they put there.

The projector moved both sheets but when was supposedly back in the physical body the sheet of paper was still in its original position.

Please share your experiences with moving (or not moving) things while out of body!

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