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There is an ever on-going debate regarding the true nature of OBEs. Are they "only" special variants of lucid dreams and not what they seem to be? My own "OBEs" seem to be a lucid dream-variant anyway.
Lucid dreams obviously (?) are dependent upon brain functions, but are OBEs?
One thing that would be interesting to know is whether various psychotropic drugs given to the body during presumed OB-activity would affect the OBE.

If drugs were shown to affect OBEs in various ways, it would prove a link between the brain and the "entity" that supposedly leaves the body during an OBE. It would indicate that OBEs are lucid dreams.

BUT...There is one big problem here: Psychotropic drugs affecting the brain most likely would affect the brain's ability to store memories of OBEs. Any reports of OBEs in a laboratory would have to rely upon such memories, possibly distorted by drugs (one cannot speak in "real-time" during an OBE). Thus, any conclusions would be hard to make...

Anyway, it would be interesting with more research, biophysiological and otherwise, comparing lucid dreaming with OBEs.

Klaus S

...yet America think it can. It's funny (no, it isn't) that especially many of those right-wing text-worshipping born-again fellows that stresses the absolute, diamond-hard value of every single word in the Bible, actually can't read! (Rather; they do not understand what they read)

In the end (as can be understood from the text below) these neanderthals are so stupid that they don't even manage to serve Mammon properly...

Klaus S

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U.S. Unilateralism Worries Trade Officials
By ELIZABETH BECKER

GENEVA, March 16 — Top officials at the World Trade Organization say they are worried that the Bush administration's go-it-alone policy is threatening international trade.
In the normally closed, clubby world of the trade organization, envoys and officials said they feared that American moves within the organization and toward a potential war in Iraq would weaken respect for international rules and lead to serious economic consequences.
In the past several months the United States has compiled a long record of violating trade rules and has single-handedly blocked an agreement to provide medicines for the world's poorest nations, a rare occurrence in this institution that painstakingly builds consensus behind closed doors.
Supachai Panitchpakdi, the director general of the W.T.O., said a war could have a devastating practical impact as the world grapples with a trade slowdown, rising oil prices and rising costs for transportation and insurance.
"I can feel the sense of trepidation," Mr. Supachai said in an interview. "Whatever happens, if the U.S. will maintain the way we use multilateral solutions, it will be highly appreciated."
That delicate expression of concern was repeated by some of America's strongest allies. They said they were worried that all international institutions would suffer a loss of credibility if the one superpower appeared to be choosing which rules to obey.
"Normally you can't go to war without the cover of the U.N., but Americans are doing quite a few things alone — even here," said Carlo Trojan, the European Union's permanent representative to the trade organization.
European officials have complained the loudest about the United States breaking trade rules. In one of the largest such judgments, Europe was awarded the right to impose $4 billion worth of trade sanctions against the United States for giving tax breaks to American exporters through foreign sales corporations. European officials say they are tired of waiting for Congress to approve new laws prohibiting these subsidies, and that they may impose 100 percent duties on items like precious stones, sporting goods and agricultural products by the end of the month.
The most glaring example here of going-it-alone tendencies was the United States' last-minute refusal to sign off on an agreement that would help poor nations buy generic medicines through exemptions from trade rules.
Developing nations had pinned their hopes on this agreement to fight AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria and other diseases. But the United States, with the strong approval of the American pharmaceutical industry, exercised the veto that every nation possesses and destroyed the deal.
That upended the timetable for a current round of trade negotiations that is dedicated to helping developing nations. This cause is identified with Mr. Supachai, the former deputy prime minister of Thailand and first director general of the trade agency.
Now he has lost the first battle. "That was a great pity," he said. "It would have sent a powerful message that we talk not only about trade deals but humanitarian deals."
Diplomats said they found it striking that Europe was willing to stand up to its pharmaceutical industries and support the agreement, but that the United States was not.
Sergio Marchi, Canada's permanent representative to the trade organization, said the American position not only put millions of lives at risk, but threatened the organization itself.
"You can't operate 100 percent on local politics if you're part of a multinational organization," he said. "Otherwise, one day it's your politics, next year it's mine, and then there is no more international organization."
Bush administration officials said that they, too, want an agreement that helps provide medicines. But they consider the current agreement too open-ended, and say it could lead to developing nations buying generic versions of drugs under American patents to treat diseases like asthma, obesity and impotence.
Linnet F. Deily, the permanent American representative at the trade organization, said developing nations understood the United States wanted to help those suffering from the worst epidemics, especially AIDS.
"The president's pledge of $15 billion in the State of the Union was extremely meaningful to delegates here," she said. She also disputed the notion that the mood of the trade organization toward the United States had changed from the strong sympathy following the Sept. 11 attacks.
"As far as I'm concerned, that energy is more intensely felt today than it was a year and a half ago," she said.
As the world's largest trading power, the United States is expected to lead the movement for more liberal trading rules. But after President Bush imposed steel tariffs and approved a dramatic increase in farm subsidies last year, officials here are wondering if the United States is rethinking its role.
"The World Trade Organization is supposed to be about tradeoffs," said Shefali Sharma, the representative of the Institute for Agriculture and Trade, a nonprofit organization based in Minneapolis. "Before, the European Union was the biggest sinner, but the United States is making Europe look good."
The introduction of this doubt about America's commitment comes as foreign investments have dropped sharply. In 2001, international trade contracted for the first time in 20 years. The world economic outlook is gloomy.

Now and then within lucid dreams, most often while I'm flying, I do not get where I intend to. Instead I swiftly gets "dragged" (mostly backwards) away somewhere else. Usually I see a lot of blurry trees beneath swooosh by for about 5-10 seconds (there is no sound or tactile sense of a "wind" really). Then I land somewhere. I cannot remember that my landing spots have been especially interesting except the latest time when I, within the dreams windy experience, got the idea "Is this an astral wind?" Then I landed somewhere interesting.
So, can Astral winds exist in lucid dreams or are that phenomenon confined to astral projection only?

Klaus S

In recent years, there seems to be an increasing number of reports regarding big black "panthers" from locations where free panthers should not exist. The United Kingdom have had a lot of these reports. So far, none of these panthers have been captured, not even by any camera, as far as I know. The reports have been too numerous and credible to be easily explained away.
What are these large cats? Could they be some "astral wildlife" that sometimes walks into our plane of existence? If so, does the apparent increase of observations mean anything?

With regards

Klaus S

Although thought of as two contrasting beliefs regarding possible after-life events,  both "reincarnation" and eventual "resurrection" of specific individuals might be possible. This is due to the concept of split consciousness, as far as I have understood it by the descriptions given by Robert Bruce.

There are good reasons to believe that "reincarnation" of  the soul is something more tricky than is usually comprehended. Ultimately, there is only one spirit that reincarnates in a multitude of bodies, something which in itself has a lot to do with the phenomenon of split consciousness.
(Now, even if "souls" are not ulimately real, have no fully independent existence, they nevertheless are rather stable seen with human eyes. I believe that the energy vortices that are "my" soul tend to "cling" together maintaining "itself" as an "entity" for several reasons. Therefore, it presumably is "half-true" that "my" soul "reincarnates" in another body).

Ultimately however, "reincarnation" presumably is a special variant of split consciousness – in time – of the one being.  And the simultaneous existence of zillions of beings in this very moment is another example of  split consciousness – in space – of the same one spirit.

Regarding the more christian belief of carnal resurrection of specific individuals, the concept of split consciousness works just fine. "My" soul might have "reincarnated" as some individuals who will be bodily resurrected while other of "my" individuals will not. Maybe these individuals will be strongly linked to each other much like twins or couples deeply in love, having an more or less telepathic communion but nevertheless be "individuals". (I do not suggest that "the others" who do not resurrect, are useless or get cast in hell or something. They are of course still parts of the one spirit).

* * *
All this has something to do with another speculation of mine; that one important aspect with the whole existence of the Universe is the grand "reincarnation" of the one spirit in all of the material, in all "flesh", so that the physical world eventually becomes "spiritualised" as well as the spirit "materialised". A new heaven and a new earth.

Klaus S

 

When posting that article about the US blocking cheaper medicines to the developing countries, I wasn't really angry at the USA as a whole nation. There is so much that is good in the USA, some things are a lot better than in my own country.

I am angry at the unholy alliance between overtly materialistic and egoistic right-wing people and some parts of Christianity. I think they are hi-jacking Christ! There is so much in what Jesus said that totally contradicts those right-wingers, they seem to have focused totally on the POWER AND PROTECTION aspect of God and forgotten about everything else.

Right now, this unholy alliance have far too much power in the world since they have entered the white house. Much suffering will be the consequence of this.

The right-wing and the left-wing and the religious and whatever rigid and intolerant extremists, they really resemble each other a lot. They fight each other but psychologically they resemble each other more than they resemble other people.

They all have a disorder of empathy - they are unable too see themselves, other people, situations or problems from different point-of-views thereby gradually modeling a more truthful perception than the perception stemming from the "single-eye" point-of-view.

Because of that empathy problem, they are not really interested in any dialogue between differing views. They just know they are right. What could be gained from dialogue.

During my ten years as a Psychiatrist, I learned that a hallmark of recovering from various severe mental disorders like paranoia, mania, severe depression, obsessive-compulsive states etc, was signs of the ability to see things from different point-of-views. You could even see that on their eyes that became more looking-around, less fixated and stiff.

I am not proposing any total relativism here. That would be just another oversimplification.

With regards

Klaus S

quote:Originally posted by EnderWiggin


It would be most honorable to step aside and let karma do its thing. We should not be playing the role of God.

This is an old discussion, isn't it.

I believe: Having a fatalistic worldview gives bad karma, passively observing while a two-year old toddler falls into the roaring ocean (presumably paying off his bad karma..) also gives very bad karma.

What is meant with "loving your neighbour"? Only loving those with nice karmas? Only feeling a melancholic kind of tenderness towards them if they have a bad karma since coupling love with spontaneous actions would "interfere with karmic justice"?

No. The help that is given to those with bad karmas helps them to "pay off" their bad karmas in a much better way than the old "an eye for an eye" it might awaken something in their hearts, trust, confidence, hope, joy, thankfulness, yes possibly even INSIGHT. And these thing reduces karma in a supreme way.


Klaus S

I do hope we are seeing the beginning of the end of Saddam Hussein.
Also, I do hope we are seeing the beginning of the end of right-wing fundamentalism as a global power.

Klaus Seigel

Quote: "Another question. Does it matter whether it is genuine projection or "manifestations of brain activity"? Is there evidence that a non-physical body can exist and separate from a physical body? Is it possible that the physical brain has sensory apparatus that can be used across distance, time, and dimension? Does it really matter either way?"

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Yes, I think it does matter. It matters regarding our view and understanding of the Universe and it matters regarding the issue of life after death.
Sometimes a "realness"-feeling is mentioned as a kind of validation of the realness of the experience. Regarding my own "OBEs" they have, in terms of "realness", felt like something in between ordinary wakefulness and lucid dreams. They do follow a certain pattern, most often I come out in the bedroom of my childhood, it's always rather dark, if I haven't enough speed I get stuck in the window glass which hurts a bit! Outside the window a lucid dream begins. I would not consider my experiences as evidence that OBEs are "real". One thing possibly of interest: Two times there have been some buzzing in my ears and these two times have felt a bit more "real", really...

Klaus S[)]

Thanks for the reply.[] I've explored the landing site just once (as far as I can remember) and that was this latest time. Before that, I just got frustrated over losing control and usually I just woke up. Anyway, this latest time I landed near a stream in a desert, ther were some bushes and small trees there and a lot of kids, rather semitic-arabic looking. They were all excited and told me that they were going to see Jesus. Oh, that's interesting! I thought. I wanted to see that man myself so I made my way through the young crowd of excited children. And there he was! He stood in that brownish stream with water to his chest. He had one kid in his arms, obviously baptizing him, and another kid was climbing on Jesus' shoulder, giggling happily. Jesus himself look really dead-serious and kind of being both very focused and far-away at the same time. I tried to catch his attention. He looked at me for a fraction of a second but did not change his focused-far-away expression. The really strange thing was, he had blond hair! Furthermore, he was rather pale, with reddish chins and his eyes were of some light colour, not dark brown as I would have supposed. The he said something which I could not hear and after that I woke up.

-- As far as I know, I'm no person having problems with a semitic-looking Jesus, wanting him to be "arian" or something like that, so I don't know what to think about that dream...

Klaus S

Before I started working with the NEW my lucid dreams were possible to change by force of my will. But now, the environment in my lucid dreams have become quite impossible to change by will. The situations and the environment seem more "rock-hard" or "real" and more constant than before. I did not know what to think about that before but when reading this topic, I wondered if my lucid dreams emanates a bit less from my private psyche and a bit more from something more collective or "objective"

Klaus S



Edited by - Klaus S on 08 April 2002  12:07:31

One of the meanings of life -- is life. In the deep-quality sense of "aliveness".

Klaus S

If digital video is much the same thing as digital photography (?) then why does not anybody record the motionsof these orbs? It would provide a clue on the origin of these orbs if one could study whether they seem to move just casually like artifacts would or if they move around in a more diversified, purposeful way.