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This is difficult to bring up, and a conversation thread which should get more horrified responses and villafied emails directed towards me than any other I've posted. But after careful thought, and much deliberation, it might not be a bad idea to Kill your Guardian Angel.

I was mortified when I first heard about it. This is me hearing about it..  "What are you INSANE?!  They're not only good, but God's link to us, right? Killing an Angel wouldn't that be like worse than killing man, damning me to a life of eternal damnation in the firey pits of Hell?"  But that's just my up bringing and Judeao-Christian ethic kicking in (even though I'm not religuous). I don't believe in a Hell, and I didn't even really believe in Angels a few years ago.

Consider the winged serpents from days of long ago which seem to permeate ancient mythology, and the fear they imposed to those who saw them. When you think of Angel's do they not have wings? Are they not there to intercede when mankind is downtrodden and on bad luck? What if these angelic creatures thrive on this negative energy force that surrounds us? What if they keep Our true God-Force from manifesting itself? What if they are not truly assistants of the Great Almighty, but a lecherous parasite which use our misfortune for their own diabolical gain?

Anyone here ever seen an Angel? I've got friends who love them. You can pretty much buy replicas of them in any store now at the check-out. They're almost as ubiquituous as giant bug-eyed alien heads you can buy anywhere. When I think of an Angel, I can't shake their image out of my head. Try it now. Close your eyes, and imagine an Angel. No, really try it, I'll wait. What does it look like? Long flowing white robe, dark eyes, boney outstetched arms? How about legs, oh I forgot they're underneath that white cloak. Next time you talk to an Angel, or see one, ask them why they wear cloaks if they weren't cast out of the Garden of Eden. Tell me what they reveal in form or in answer.

Let's suppose for example that you attempt to destroy your guardian angel. If they truly are your guardian, and an extension of God, you as a mere mortal can't possibly harm them, right? Then what is there to lose? Make a test that will last thirty days. If you don't have the stomach for it, then politely demand they leave you alone. You must demand it, or kill them. To do this, imagine the Angel, then imagine whatever weapon you wish to use to carry out the act (an Excalibur replica sword, tomahawk, nuclear weapons, Tesla Death Ray, it doesn't matter), and then kill it. Wait 30 days. If, after 30 days you don't have more coherent thoughts, more energy, and more lucidness in your dreams, all you need to do it ask for them to come back, and they will. But at least you will have figured it out for yourself. Here's a conundrum: why would God need angelic helpers if s/he is omnipotent?  It's a mystery.

Food for thought, and I'd like some feedback on it from the wonderful people's here.  And no, I'm not a Satan worshipper.  I speak for the trees.

The_Lorax

Edited by - Lorax on 09 April 2002  06:08:20

[God]

Interesting.  

Let me for the record adamantly repeat I am an expert on nothing, and don't claim to have all the answers, but lots of questions. I also would like to thank everyone for their posts in this difficult decision, for me.  

MJ-12 et. al.: I can envision a Union with The One (God), and I would assume that to be the pinnacle acheivement of our Spiritual Evolution.  Re-entering The Source, or That Power, would signify the fulfillment of a long journey of spiritual enlightenment.  I don't deny that.  But I think my query statement ("Isn't my Higher Self the purest version of me, and not in fact a guide, or an angel") was more a question of trying to ascertain the true identity of a 'Spirit Guide.'  Alien Entity?  Messenger of God?  In this incarnation, I think the highest version or evolution I can acheive would be a unification with my Higher-Self.  I was trying to point out a dileniation between 'Higher Self' and 'Spirit Guide.'  In my experience they are not the same.  One I can see, feel, sense, hear, the other I can not.  Has anyone else found this to be the case?

But Robert Bruce said, "A Holy Guardian Angel could be likened to one's higher self.  They are either one and the same or are intimately connected."  I believe we are getting to the root of my confusion.  Is the adjective 'Holy' a modifier setting your personal guardian above another angelic guardians?  Speaking from personal experience, I have never seen an entity that resembles the power and majesty of a Guardian Angel (but the dark entities I referred to mirrored their appearance), never experienced that overwhelming sense of love and compassion you referred to Robert.  So I guess nothing Angelic was in my presence.

If the union between Higher-Self and little old me isn't the end-all be-all-you-can-be crowning acheivement in this lifetime, then what is?  Understandably this could fall into the vexing "Who are we, why are we here" category, but I'm curious as to whether people here believe there is another evolutionary step we can accomplish.

Ronan

"I'm not dense, that's just my physical body."

Thanks you for your kind words, and inspirational wisdom on the subject, everyone, and also Robert.  I would like to clarify my original intent and purpose in destroying these forces surrounding me.  Then, I'll let you know what's happened to me since.

The beings which I see when I leave my body, and travel around my home resembled angelic entities, but upon further scrutiny they appear as bats clinging to the walls.  This led me to the assumption that the Divine Energies of Light are not in fact Angels at all, but energy draining machines, or energy draining entities which surround us [Humans] on a daily basis, to feed off from our negative energy [We could argue that my life feeds their energy more than others, but I am for the most part a calm, happy, although currently lost, individual].  If my hypothesis is incorrect, and with someone that has the experince of Robert I wouldn't doubt that I am, then perhaps my classifying these forces as "angels" was wrong, despite their [imposter-like] outwardly Angelic appearance.  

The Higher Self, which I have been in contact with, and still am, told me [no, I'm not crazy] that the beings around me needed to be destroyed, and that they were stealing energy from myself and those I love.  I found many dark bat-like creatures surrounding my home, and on walls, and in chairs.  I exterminated them, so to speak.  After removing the beings I wasn't aware of any other entities around me.  I've never had luck contacting my Spirit Guide, but receive messages from my own Higher Self regularly.  I surmised that these bat-like Angelic imposters were responsible for causing sleepiness, and other maladies.  I should also add that they weren't difficult to destroy, adding further evidence that the creatures may not have in fact been Angels [As most here said, and two other people, Angels are messy to clean up after].  No residual energy splotches or other evidence that would suggest that something was there.

I know I placed this message in the right forum, but perhaps I erroneously labelled the entities as Angels because in fact none have ever crossed my path, and those that have appeared to cross my path have been cheap imitations.

On to the funny part.  You may be pleased to learn that since severing with these forces which were allegedly protecting me, I've missed two important appointments, lost my car keys, got into a minor fender bender, and received two tickets (one for license plates, and one for speeding).  It's time to rid the world of these dark energies and re-connect on a personal level to my Higher Self.  MJ-12 commented that his/her guardian angel is actually a Higher Self version of her/hiself, but I must disagree.  I envision Angels to be highly advanced creatures, but only part of us in that we're all tied to a Much Greater Whole.  Isn't my Higher Self the purest version of me, and not in fact a guide, or an angel?

As for us Humans, we're supposed to be high on the evolutionary scale, but it's only because the animals haven't discovered how to make guns...yet.  I don't eat meat either, not onyl for the inhumane conditions, but because alternatives are healthier.  I firmly believe that we as a species have the capacity for greatness, and infinite spiritual enlightenment, but I also have no idea how to get there.

The graphic on the top of the screen makes navigating through the forums, in a tiny window scrunched down at the bottom of the screen, a bit more challenging and less appealing than a full screen.  

I've never enjoyed frames, so I vote neigh.

Just my two cents.

"The future is all around us.  Waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of Revelation.  No one knows the shape of that Future, or where it will take us.  We know only that it is always born in...Tomorrow."

[en Fuego!]

My prediction, soon this post will be en Fuego!

Sounds like Tia is experiencing a phenomena where the techniques she is using are depleting her Energy.  Your loving partner, in his sub-conscious snoring stupor (I love alliteration and use it often), felt your need for Energy and tried to give you some of his.  Since he's not working with NEW he has loads of Energy to give you.

While I'm no adept at this, I can offer some advice for boosting your energy reserves.  Before engaging in NEW, "ground your self" by absorbing Power and Energy from the Earth.  This should let you ward off potential colds, flus and other illnesses, while keeping your Energy level high.  And your partner can keep his energy and snore all night long.  


How long have you been working with the techniques to raise your energy level?  And I think everyone here could learn for your examples of using it in every day life when we're waiting for something else.

Lorax

"The future is all around us.  Waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of Revelation.  No one knows the shape of that Future, or where it will take us.  We know only that it is always born in...Tomorrow."

Edited by - Lorax on 27 February 2002  22:22:00

[Bruce Moen]

Interestingly Bruce Moen in his second or third book, Voyage to Somewhere said he saw scientists working on such a telephonic device that would allow normal people to communicate with the deceased.  When I first read it I thought it would be some break through technology making all of the newspapers and the morning talk show rounds.  Now I wonder if perhaps Mr. Moen got confused in his OBEing and ended up on the set of the movie Frequency.

Dog Face -

You have otitus media in your ear.  Heavy anti-biotics should do the trick.

If you believe the late great author Douglas Adams, the answer, to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe and Everything is "forty-two."  And more shockignly the question is, "What do you get when you multiply six by nine?"  Turns out there is something fundamentally wrong with the Universe.

But on a more serious note, I too would like answers to vexing questions, like why do I continue to believe relationships will work, why am I overly nice to everyone while foresaking myself?  What would bring me the greatest happiness in this life, and is it true that 2012 is the end of life as we know it on this planet.  

I guess I have a few questions too.

My chakras are killing me.

I think lethargy sets in, when the chakras aren't being used enough, and the spiritual energy that makes them spin and whir (is whir a word?) is low.  I've been feeling down lately, and I can't even feel my crown chakra.  

Here's a personal problem.  Oddly I can feel the energy on the sides of my head, but not directly at the top.  I used to be able to feel energy over my entire scalp.  Could it be a diet problem, lack of spiritual energy problem?   Maybe suggest ways to remove this blockage?  Or if they want to remove it for me, I wouldn't be opposed to that either.

As for the original query, I've always imagined Chakras inside of me radiating on both sides to the front and back of my physical body.

Instead of rigging up a keyboard for communication with spirit, designed with exacting specifications, and utilizing the epitome of state of the art fiber optic cables, coils, and other such things, couldn't you just talk to the dead while out of body?  It's not as much work as the elaborate keyboard idea, but seems much more practical.

Mine are mad at me.

About 6 months ago, when trying to have an OBE, I mentally requested help.  "Help me out of body," or something along those lines.  To get the full feeling of what happened, I'd like you to play along at home.  For this excercise, imagine you are lying on your back, and reach your right arm out in front of you.  Ok, now we're ready for the rest of the story.

After this request, I felt someone grab my right wrist [do that with your left hand now, grab your right wrist tightly with your left hand and pull], and pull me forward.  The event freaked me out so much I screamed, got out of my bed and paced around the room for fifteen minutes.  

They [the Guides, Higher Self] did EXACTLY as I asked, yet I was spiritually unprepared for the assistance they provided for me.  I haven't been able to get in touch with any spiritual entities since.  Maybe tonight I will write out an apology.

Peering through one's eyelids was something I remember reading about in a Monroe book.  The first of the Monroe books was probably the best, and the second two were much more a travelogue of his OBEs than an informational text.  

I still can't do it, but I recommend astral projection where you can actually fly, over just looking through flaps of skin.

As for the mirror, I have noticed that it transports you through some sort of portal, where things are more out of place than the Astral world.  Still haven't figured out where it takes you, or what to accomplish there.

I too recorded it, but it wasn't easy.  IT's on a video tape now, as I couldn't get a free stream from Art's site.  Thought he charges for that now.  This weekend I'm expecting my first neioe to be born, but next week if the file hasn't been posted I'll run it to the audio card, and make it into a file.  Inguma, you rock!  From what I heard of the show it sounded great, but then I fell asleep (Robert was on at 2:00am here in the U.S.).

I had to respond cuz of the Tibetan comment.  I got it because I want to be Immortal, and got excited about the idea of doing 5 excercises a day.  I've been lazy lately, but seeing as how everyone (here) is doing it, I'll get back on the bandwagon post haste.  I still work out at the gym, but hope this Chakra work in combination with the NEW work will propel me into the dynamic spritual being I've been aspiring too for the last couple or few thousand years.

What do I know?  Well I read a lot.  I don't think it's true what you've mentioned about the Gateway program.  It's been in existence since the 1970's and many thousands of participants have gone through it, with varying degrees of success.  If such nefarious behavior were going on, seems like the cat woul dhave been let out of the bag.  

Though I will say that I heard (heresay) from a woman highly skilled in the Wiccan arts, that "people who go to Monroe, and who participate in Silva 'change.'"  I took it to mean that they are more spiritually advanced, but she said something happens to their personality also.  Take from it what you will.  I love this site, by the way.  Woo.