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Messages - SpiritWings

#1
Quote from: James S on May 28, 2007, 04:33:34
Probably more like the second step. Awareness is the first.

Seeking ET,
That's big, and many of us here will be very proud of you for coming to this place of understanding. Big thumbs up there!  8-)
You're absolutely right. This is NOT what God is about, not by a long shot. It is however, what many humans are about. Once you understand this it becomes easy to see how many religions have 'fashioned' their Gods according to human traits and personalities.

People aren't much different from God.  Sure, it's said "my ways are not yours", but I don't think there's a single emotion or passion that people have that higher beings do not.  God can cry, God can be angry, God can laugh.  Why is this so contradictory to the Christian (and other) scriptures?    At least many non-Christian religions like Islam aren't cursed with this idea that Gods are somehow stripped of anger or some form of emotion.  Just being "robots of consciousness".  Joseph Smith said essentially "to understand ourselves is to understand God".

People are the ones that think there's some being out there that has a constitution and emotional makeup completely different than their own, and they need to shed these "weaknesses" aside.  Maybe all one needs to do is control them and give occasion to each individual passion when the time calls for a just action or motivation.

Paul said "Bridle your passions", not bury them or throw them away.  To bridle means just direct properly and in an orderly fashion. 
#2
Whatever floats your boat.  The scriptures of the LDS church contain lots of unique teachings, and DO feel right to me.  I don't just go by the leaders, and in fact am pretty inactive, but I think Joseph Smith was a prophet.  Now I don't pretend to like everything about what has happened since 1830, but I still think what he taught was true.   I personally got into astral practices because the same "spiritualism is of the devil" stuff had gotten into it, which is 100% against what Joseph Smith was all about -- ie personal revelation, etc.  He invited members to have experiences, and try the spirits for themselves, even setting some "guidelines" in certain scriptures. 

I believe in a being known in the scriptures as Satan, Lucifer, the devil, etc.; but don't think he runs such a vast and fruitful realm of spiritual experiences.   I don't even think God himself "runs" it.  It's just part of the nature of "intelligences" and the universe in general, of things that exceed even the Gods, or higher beings. 

One question for those who think God is a happy-happy hippy-like being or something:  why do humans have such emotions as hate, aggression, etc., if they are "made in God's image" in every regard?  You'd have to attribute these to some fluke flaw in design, since, they aren't perfect to the prototype.  Yes, even some Mormons have this idea that God has no capacity for controlled retaliation, even when scriptures talk about the "wrath of God", "vengeance is mine", etc.

Christian and LDS (somehow not 'Christian' to some...) Scriptures, as far as I understand them, paint God as a complete being (with a physical body, BTW), with a full range of emotions, passions, and desires.  The only real difference from humans is (besides many powers beyond most human fathoming), he has a vastly superior amount of control over these passions.  Just because he can love doesn't mean he can't show emotions that would lead to just vengeance or retribution.  As proverbs says (paraphrased), "there is a time for everything under the sun".

In a word, God wishes to always be nice and friendly, but some commit injustices worthy of authoritative  punishment, and sometimes a pie in the sky life, like in the case of the Job story, isn't always what this mortal life is for.  It's mostly for teaching and growth, not being handed rosy situations where you're always going to forced to be happy.

One last thing:  If you hate the church, quit going.  It has as much right to practice as any other denomination.  If you like some of it's doctrines, but don't like the rest, that's why there's this thing called freedom of religion, where you can start your own, or abandon religion altogether.  Mormons, at 12 million (generous) members, are hardly going to take over the world any time soon.

The world could fall into much worse hands...
#3
Imagine a 2d plane.  If it is flat, there are no distortions in placement of the plane's grid.  However, if you have to wrap part of the grid around a sphere, it distorts the dimensions.

Assume the sphere has a radius of r, and the coordinate system is centered at the core of the sphere.

For simplicity, I'll limit the warp to one dimension on a hemisphere model.

Every x dimension between y's r and (-r) has the following displacement applied to it:

for |y|<=r and x>=r:
x'=x-(pi/2)*r*sin(acos(y))

The grid displacement would look similar to this:



(green lines = distorted x-lines, white circle = sphere, white horizontal lines = y-lines)

So imagine an object going along an imaginary or real string that has the same distortion applied to it as the the x-axis lines in the image.  A straight course would skew off into a tangent towards the sphere, when it reaches y=r or y=-r.

For example, look at a rollercoaster.  When an object is trying to go one way, and is forced to go another, g-forces (artificial gravity) are produced.

Imagine spheres in space causing rollercoaster-like warps in superstring 'track'.  Objects wanting to go 'straight' are being re-directed into another direction, thus producing gravity.


#4
Quote from: CFTraveler on January 17, 2007, 11:58:07
My opinion why gravity works is because space is not an empty lack of something, but something in itself, that has a structure.  Sort of (or maybe not) like the old concept of ether.  So it can be bent, spindled, and mutilated.

Yes, gravity becomes much easier to explain when we treat space a connected object, not a lack of objects. 

#5
OK, I've read some ideas thrown around this (in books and elsewhere), here's my guess at what gravity is:

Instead of imagining space as "empty", and matter as "solid", try reversing the process.  Imagine space is a continuous fluid, and "matter" is a disturbance in the placid, endless ocean of space, similar to air bubbles in a soda can.

Each energy disturbance, known as an "atom",  pushes the space outwards.  But since space is already "endless", it can't get any bigger. So it attempts to "crush" this disturbance to restore the placid order.  A bigger disturbance causes a bigger reaction from the space pool.  When it gets to a certain level of supernova, it reaches a point where the mass can hold back the pressure no more, forms a black hole, and shrinks into a singularity.     

A gravity field can be seen as a spacial "repair zone" to restore/offset-to the placid state.  It diminishes the further away one gets from the object.

Every action requires a reaction, so gravity could be seen as the reaction to the action of spacial distortion.
#6
Well whoever the source is, I appreciate the info.

Muslims get a bad rap.  I think they have been an instrumental  group in many good, worthy world events.  It's just the most recent events are freshest on many's minds. 

I never see why Jews and Christians seem to hate about the religion of Abraham's firstborn, Ishmael, and the "great nation" spoke of in the Bible (this is from their scriptures, not Quran.  A great nation).  A nation in the spiritual sense, as well as secular sense.  I think both Esau and Lot's children also  merge into this covenant as well.

Gen. 17: 20
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

I've read some things on Islam.  I believe it to be revealed of God, but don't believe it to be his final revelation to mankind.   I do respect most Muslims as very spiritual and good people.  Peace is just usually a more anonymous journey than warmongering, so the bad elements (or more correctly, offshoots) get all the attention.  I don't believe Islam at a truly fundamental level is anymore warmongering or intolerant than the other religions of the Abrahamic covenant.   Anyone can wear a name tag that says "Islam" and bomb a building.  It doesn't reflect the nature of the religion as much as the nature of the humans who happen to espouse it.

#7
Old 'Mosaic' Sabbath is Saturday, aka the last day.  Christ rose on the first day, Sunday -- 'Christian' Sabbath.   

"The first shall be last, and the last shall be first"

It's just one application to this passage.

#8
Well my religion believes in 3 separate entities in the Godhead, a father God, a Son, and a Being of spirit some know as the Holy Ghost.  Here's the WiH story from my understanding and upbringing:

At this point, the head God, (Father, Elohim) is a corporeal being, and has innumerable hosts of spirit children, and plans a giant Family Council (Council in Heaven) for his children.  The basic idea is to set up a plan for mortal and extramortal progression, that involves going through the process of life and death.  Then it comes to how these spirits will be saved from the planned 'Fall'.

Two prominent and elder (in fact both were likely the eldest) sons of this being came forward with plans for saving mankind.  Lucifer, and Jehovah, to very exalted and godlike beings came forth, in fact both could be considered gods to one degree or another.    They offered their plans before the masses of spirits.

Lucifer's plan was that of basically guaranteed exaltation, godhood and immortality.  He seemed boastful that he would "save 'em all".  There was more of a sense what he wanted over the Father.

Jehovah's was a selfless submission to the will of the Father.  As on the cross, and in the garden, it was "Thy will, not mine, be done".

Jehovah was chosen, and Lucifer grew jealous and bitter until ultimately rebelling, but not before leading roughly 1/3 of the hosts to follow his cause in the high level rebellion against one's parents (yes, I believe in an exalted Mother as well).

As the story goes, he became "that old serpent" the devil, Satan, etc.

What I draw from this:

666 may in fact John's best way of describing the 2/3s that Lucifer is still striving to win for his cause.  He did not have the decimal system back then, and 1000 is a key symbolical number, so 666/1000 would be interpreted as "two-thirds".

It's not said whether Lucifer can ever be redeemed, but I find eternal damnation really hard to swallow.  I'll just leave it at that.  There is one modern scripture in my church that says "eternal" punishment is called such more because it comes from an eternal being.   So it may leave a door open a loooong way down the road.   Either way, it doesn't seem like desirable path, the one he took.

----

Obviously (to me at least), there was an order set up where God came to be.    I believe he went through a mortality much like his Only Begotten.  Where it all started?  This is probably the ultimate truth, and a long way off for many to ever know.  There's a hymn that asks this question, but fails at an answer.

Other scriptures in my church say that spirits of ALL living things (animals, plants, etc.) were "in the beginning with God" as a metaphysical form of matter known simply as "intelligence", which could not be created or made.  This means even God came from an organizational "nothing" so to speak.

Now whether this "intelligence" can act in, well, an intelligent manner is not said.  I always assumed that there was some ability to act in order to bring about the first embodied spirits.  Even chaos of thought and motivation could cause some kind of guided energy.  It was probably long and tedious, but much like the physical evolution theory, once the first is made, it gets easier from there.  Maybe telekinesis of chaotic spirit mass is the "First cause".

I have some extra-religious ideas on this, like how practically infinite #s of Gods keep going on with their order of practically infinite children, and what the ultimate point of it all is.  This is one reason why I find black holes, singularities, and parallel universes such fascinating concepts.

It may just be that there is no one spirit parent, but many.  However, all spirits follow a single "chief God".

I read that the Hebrew translation for the opening passage of the Old Testament is something to the effect of:
"The Head of Gods called forth the Gods". as if there was a numerous host of Gods, but one chief one.  Eloheim means "Gods" in the plural form.

Many other ancient religions agreed with this idea to extent.  Zeus was king of Olympus, Odin over Valhalla & Asgard, etc.  A religion can be both mono- and poly-theistic to certain degrees.