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No, I thought I had asked the original poster.  But being a member of the group and being one of the Paris 4 isn't the same thing, or is it?  BTW,   I've never been to Paris but they tell me it's beautiful.

Surely you were speaking about the Paris 4 when you spoke about 'that group.' Anyway, I'm not a member.

Best (leaving this Forum because there is not much discussion here on the Letters),

Highdenham

[again]

Would that make you one of the Paris 4?

An estimated 300 people are quoted in the numerous response-articles on those Letters. Would that make them members of the Paris 4?

What's more, I answered that question before:

You keep quoting these articles as if they were 'true'.  Are you a member of that *ahem* group?

Honored, but no. But I know a few things about alchemy. Just like the people who were consulted by Gary Osborn.

So why this question again? Are you perhaps one of those Parisians? 

I'm quoted in the latest article on the Letters.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_30.htm

And even if it's true that women can only be saved through a male alchemist and not become alchemist themselves, does not mean that women are inferior to men. Let me give an example here. Who is giving birth to the Tree and Life and the Vessel of Alchemy, i.e., the human body? Exactly: women. And are men inferior to women because they can't give birth here? If you study the El Safti-article carefully, then women take care of the Vessel and men of the Work. What counts is the end-product: a salvator macrocosmi, able to redeem nature.

Yes you are right he should, but this is the very problem with Osama and his friends,  they will NOT read something written about Islam, unless it has been written by a Muslim. They simply dismiss it. It is part of their culture to mistrust any information that does not come from their Immam or whoever they consider authorities. They have a well developed persecution complex and believe in all sort of far fetched conspiracy theories. This is also why they are so easy to lead astray. I know that there are well educated Muslims, BUT as a rule, and most certainly in Islamic countries, Muslims are uneducated, simple and ......as a result rather uncivilized. This was the discussion and seeing Osama has left the  building he confirms it.

Quite.

If alchemy deals with mixing sun and moon in one new thing... how can someone tell that semen is more important than an ovule, and that women can't attain a certain state of being?

The writers of those articles are only the messenger, not the message. Go complain to 'God' about the sperm-connection.

You keep quoting these articles as if they were 'true'.  Are you a member of that *ahem* group?

Honored, but no. But I know a few things about alchemy. Just like the people who were consulted by Gary Osborn:

"I too have approached several alchemists about the Letters, and they all have been in favour of them; that what is being divulged in them is true. One said that the secrets of Alchemy are no longer secret. Simple as that." [Gary Osborn on July 12 2007]

Get over it dude. Muslims have always been peaceful. Rash and floundery statements of a couple doesnt change the fact that:

1)Muslims have always been more tolerant, and more civilized, in warfare and elsewhere, than christians.

You have to do some serious reading, my friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam

['In view of the recognized frequency of this phenomenon [of homosexuality], its interpretation as a pathological perversion is very dubious. The psychological findings show that it is rather a matter of incomplete detachment from the hermaphroditic archetype, coupled with a distinct resistance to identify with the role of a one-sided sexual being. Such a disposition should not be adjudged negative in all circumstances, in so far as it preserves the archetype of the Original Man, which a one-sided sexual being has, up to a point, lost.' [Carl Jung "Concerning the Archetypes and the Anima Concept," CW 9i, par. 146./italics by me] [see footnote 1]]

I read most of the post (but not every detail) and was going to comment that this business about intercourse between man-woman or every other possible combination is moot *ducks* because according to jungian psychology (and I tend to agree with this) whatever gender you choose for a lifetime will be complementarily expressed subconsciously by the opposing gender.  In other words, if you are male your anima (female subconscious aspect) is in charge subconsciously, and if your gender is female your animus will be strong in the subconscious aspects of yourself.  Also your gender isn't necessarily expressing as the most dominant aspects of your personality, so even the sex act can be 'opposite' physically as to the flow energies psychically.
For example, I am a heterosexual female who has a very strong animus.  My male aspect is very strong and I am usually aggressive and about as 'girly' as-well- Arnold Swartzennegger (sorry about the spelling) but you get the picture.
And thanks Andoni for all the nice things you said about women being redeemers and earth and all that.  Although I probably identify with the sun aspect.  Frankly, I don't understand women either.   

'In view of the recognized frequency of this phenomenon [of homosexuality], its interpretation as a pathological perversion is very dubious. The psychological findings show that it is rather a matter of incomplete detachment from the hermaphroditic archetype, coupled with a distinct resistance to identify with the role of a one-sided sexual being. Such a disposition should not be adjudged negative in all circumstances, in so far as it preserves the archetype of the Original Man, which a one-sided sexual being has, up to a point, lost.' [Carl Jung "Concerning the Archetypes and the Anima Concept," CW 9i, par. 146./italics by me] [see footnote 1]

Taken from www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_16.htm

These articles (below) show that Jung understood next to nothing about the core business of alchemy:

http://www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_19.htm

http://www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_21.htm

That last letter about semen is quite... stupid?

Just men can save themselves? When was that letter written? What was the context?

a) What letter? You mean article, surely. And is it important when it was written?

b) You have a few alchemical facts to deal with before you call that article stupid. The retainment of seed (not eggs) and a painful testicle.

Women are earth, and earth is the real redeemer.

Women, I'm sorry, are the portal to death (nothing wrong with women because of that, of course/after all, they can't help the fact that we are mortals, as Genesis would like to suggest).
Ever heard of the Hayflick-limit? As soon as the egg and the sperm unite the clock of death starts to tick. No redemption I'm afraid through the vagina. Only death.

I agree with you that the unification of the sun and the moon is an inner process. But taoism assumes two ways: the inner and the outer, and they're complementary. The second one uses the sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. The energy exchange takes place in the genitalia and in the tongue.

New articles have been published on the Forbidden Letters:

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_21.htm

In his 1945 Festschrift for Gustav Senn, Carl Jung said that the Stone of Alchemy was 'a great embarrassment to the alchemist, for since it had never been produced, no one could say what it really was.' It was said it was 'born from a living thing' and 'extracted from man,' and 'its connection with immortality was attested from very early times,' but, again, 'no one could say what it really was.'

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_22.htm

"It's a possibility that the Stone is produced of the old microcosmic head. And that the head placed back after the Kundalini-fire is again that Stone. This would mean that there are as many Grails as there are human heads." [John Raven on the Forbidden Letters]

10.

"Our man is on the floor on his back. He had his eyes closed during the whole resurrection. A 'thread' (very thin) is closing around his neck. The head is decapitated by that 'thread'. The stone is produced about where the liver is. The stone ignites the Kundalini-fire. [Forbidden Letters, part 2, section 12]

11.

''Was Baphomet really a severed head? And if so, who or what could it represent?'  [Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince]

12.

"In certain grail-lore heads are taken off and replaced by other heads. Now, we are not talking about the head of flesh to be taken off. That would be lethal of course. It is the microcosmic, subtle head, interwoven in the head of flesh, that is taken off and replaced after the [kundalini] fire by a new subtle head, the Christ." [The Paris 4 in the fourth Forbidden Letter]

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_23.htm

1.

"In Carthago the Caduceus is almost without exception shown in combination with a capstone."[Reuter]

2.

"The caduceus is a symbol of the subtle system through which the Kundalini-fire rises. It consists of a central staff (the Sushumna Nadi of Yoga) entwined by twin serpents (Ida and Pingala Nadi's)."[Sahajayoga]

3.

"The name pyramid is Greek and means fire within or fire in there."[Otto Reich]

4.

"Cheops' pyramid was connected with alchemy in the Roman period (33 BC - 386 CE/Popp)."[Erik Hornung in the Secret Lore of Egypt (SLE hereafter)]

5.

"The egyptologist Helmuth Jacobsohn wished to recognize the benben-stone of Heliopolis as the archetype of the Philosopher's Stone."[SLE]

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_24.htm

But not only cells emit or carry light. Atoms too are filled with photons. Indeed, it is the electromagnetic force, that 'binds atoms and molecules together and gives shape to form and matter. The palm trees that are waving outside; the flowers that open to the sun; radios, cell phones, TVs; the ability of your eyes to see (...) illustrations; all of chemistry and biology, all the plants, animals, humans and their brains; all of the collected behavior of gases and solids  - everything is held together by the electromagnetic force. Life is choreographed by the electromagnetic force.[Stephen Hawking, 2001:44]

D.H. Wolfraim, reviewing Dr. Lawrence Fagg's book 'Electromagnetism and the Sacred,' says, that Dr. Fagg's general thesis is that electromagnetism 'underlies the very fabric of the physical world, from atoms, rocks and planets to minds and living organisms, and that the creative role of light in manifesting physical reality is analogous to the indwelling presence of spiritual light manifesting as the sacred throughout nature; a belief found in all major religions throughout the world - that God is Light.'[Wolfraim]

Now, if indeed life is orchestrated by light and if light underlies 'the very fabric of the physical world,' and God is not to be found outside the Self, the, to quote Edward Edinger, 'ordering and unifying center of the total psyche, the central source of life energy, the foundation of our being,' then physical immortality through light might, in my opinion, be the least thing possible through the Great Work of Alchemy. And in case the reader wonders how a Lightbody can be forged within a 'solid' human body: bodies are composed of atoms, and since atoms are 99,9% empty space, human bodies too are 99,9% empty space.

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_25.htm

1.

'In Dorn's view there is in man an invisible sun, which he identifies with the Archeus. This sun is identical with the sun in the earth.'[Jung, MC:pars 49/italics by me]

2.

'You have the energy of the sun in you, but you keep knotting it up at the base of your spine.'[Ibn Rumi on the Great Work of Alchemy]

3.

'In the eyes of the alchemist the fire-point, the divine centre in man, was something dangerous, a powerful poison which required very careful handling if it was to be changed into the panacea.'[Jung, MC:pars 49]

4.

'Kundalini either saves, or destroys.'[de Beaumont]

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_26.htm

In the 1920's Sir Flinders Petrie ensured the British public that the Great Pyramid was nothing but 'a tomb erected for Cheops, soured as he had been by the excesses of the followers of Piazzi Smyth who tried to turn that pyramid into a house of biblical prophecies.'[Oderberg] - But, there is in fact no indication 'that anyone was ever interred in that pyramid.'[Oderberg]

The designer engineer Olaf Tellefsen evaluated the Great Pyramid as 'unique, a special case, indicating superior knowledge, not manifest in other pyramids.'[Oderberg] The well-shaft for instance is 'completely without meaning if that pyramid, equidistant from the pole and the center of the earth, is a tomb.'[Oderberg] And that shaft would of course be explained just fine if it enabled the adept to symbolically enter the earth; a key-phase in the alchemical process.

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_27.htm

To transmute this substance, its two parts, Sol and Luna, King and Queen have to be wed. Jung assumed that this marriage was a 'synthetic process in the psyche 'outside' the ego.'[Jung, MC, pars 410] This realm outside the ego is already discussed by Maud Perkins in section 12 of  http://www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_25.htm.  But what exactly did Jung mean by that realm 'outside the ego'? He was referring there to 'the microcosmic space of the psyche,'[pars 410] that space possibly being 'a whole world in itself, a macrocosm.'[pars 412] Yet, 'the fact that one can get into this territory (...) does not mean that it belongs to me personally. The ego is Here and Now, but the 'outside-of-the-ego' is an alien There. Both earlier and later, before and after. So it is not surprising that the primitive mind sensed the psyche outside the ego as an alien country, inhabited by the spirits of the dead. On a rather higher level it takes on the character of a shadowy semi-reality, and on the level of the ancient cultures, the shadows of that 'land beyond' have turned into ideas. In Gnostic-Christian circles these (ideas) were developed into a dogmatic, hierarchically arranged, cosmogonic and chiliastic system which appears to us moderns as an involuntary, symbolic statement of the psyche concerning the structure of the psychic non-ego. This region, if still seen as a spectral 'land beyond', appears to be a whole world in itself, a macrocosm. If, on the other hand, it is felt as 'psychic' and 'inside', it seems like a microcosm of the smallest proportions.[Jung, MC, pars 411 et 412] 'Whoever wished to commit this (alchemical/Cambronne) act (...), would therefore have to get outside himself, as if into an external glasshouse, a round cucurbita which represented the microcosmic space of the psyche.' [Jung, MC, pars 410] In the words of the Paris 4 from one of their 'ridiculous Letters'[Knight-Jadczyk]:

'If an alchemist travels through the earth, he's doing that in the microcosmos of the body. Remember what we said: the real sun and moon (and earth) are in you. Not outside. And this explains why our friend could still hear common street noise outside his apartment when he traveled to the centre of the earth over 19 years ago with tremendous speed.'[The Paris 4]

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_28.htm

' It is strange that, as Eleazar says, this earth is mingled with fire.'[Carl Jung] 

' Are we sure that alchemy is completely terrestrial?' [di Pietro]

www.world-mysteries.com/PhilipGardiner/forbidden_letters_29.htm

The gay man of the Letters nonetheless asks himself whether more alchemists could be on earth 'right now.' It would be interesting for me, as a woman, to consider the possibility here that at least one of them, if they exist, could be female.

Jay Reed Armstrong gives us reasons to be pessimistic here, reminding us of the fact 'that exactly the disciple who represents the Living Stone of Alchemical Transformation, Peter, is misogynic: 'Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life.' And the Paris 4 are worried that the microcosmic female, kundalini, might not be tolerated in the macrocosmic one.

David Gordon White gives women even more reasons to despair here, pointing out that sperm is an absolute must for alchemy too. 'Semen is the raw material and fuel of every psychochemical transformation.'[DGW] A transformation through which 'a new, superhuman and immortal body is conceived out of the mortal one.'[DGW] That semen 'has to be retained.'[DGW] According to India throughout the Work, according to Paris only during the phase of kundalini. He who is unable to retain his semen (here) 'is condemned to death.'[DGW]

In an email on the Letters to Otto Reich, Jay Gould insists that only because 'women have no sperm, doesn't mean that women can't be saved. It only means they cannot become Alchemists, meaning Solar Heroes.'[Gould/presented with permission]

So what are we to conclude here? Are women only incapable of becoming Solar Heroes, lacking testicles, lacking sperm? Or are we alchemically doomed altogether? Surely not.

If the Solar Hero is a redeemer, then these technicalities about sperm and testicles might be irrelevant. Then that Hero could 'simply' transform us through his will, thereby saving us from a sleeping kundalini, meaning death. Because 'the kundalini, when she sleeps, is identified with the kalagni, the fire of time that slowly cooks all creatures to death through the aging process.'[DGW]

[one]

As long as I'm gay I should be happy to be so equilibrated 

About this thing I read a really interesting article that gave me some fresh water after so much criticism on homosexuality and religion. It was by Ed Steinbrecher in his book "Inner guide meditation".

The main point in the article is that a man/woman, when having a coitus, the energy of the male enters the female and vice versa, SETTLING DOWN the energy pattern of both subjects. In astrological terms it stands for: your astral chart takes strength. That means you're more determined by your karma baggage.

With a gay subject that settling down never happens, because a man-man, woman-woman sexual intercourse doesn't involve a "closed" circuit, or, at least, the energy flows in a different way.

That's why, and always in Ed's words, shamans have been always gay, because they're able to manage energy more easily. In the same way, all priests and religious people that have had sex are not able to drive the energy of the community in a, for example, mass, because their circuits can't hold so much energy.

With all due respect, this is not alchemical. There is no exchange of subtle energy between two persons possible. The unification of the male and female is an inner unification within one person, and the circuit it creates is an inner circuit.