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OK, here's one thing I've been meaning to ask for a long time.

You know how you're meant to "look behind your eyelids", and at first you see flat blackness, then when you're at Focus 12 it turns 3D etc.? OK, here are some questions:

1) I don't know if it's the same with everyone, but for me, **either** I actually MAKE AN EFFORT to SEE, LOOK, and FOCUS ON the blackness, **or** my mind is somewhere else and my eye senses are shut down.
So when I'm required to "look behind my eyelids", are you saying that all the while, from beginning to end, I'm meant to be consciously lookind/seeing/focussing with my eyes?

2) I'm pretty sure this is true with everyone - when you close your eyelids (whether in sleep or just relaxing), your eyeballs actually ROLL UP, so that it's looking up into somewhere in the cranium.
You will hardly notice this, but I'm sure it's true cos for people who can't completely shut their eyelids when they sleep, you can see only the white of the eye peeking through. Or you can test yourself: shut your eyes, and use your hands to physically peel open your eyelids. You will notice your eyes are facing upwards.
So my question is, we're not meant to LITERALLY look "behind the eyelids", right?? Cos if I were to literally do that, I would have to strain my eyes to bring the eyeballs back down from its naturally rested position. My eyelids would then start to feel strained and shaky, and even flutter.

Thanks!

KL

I just started reading William Buhlman's "Adventures Beyond The Body" (half way through) and it's an absolutely excellent book so far!

I notice that from the descriptions of his OBE experiences, his method to achieve an OBE is via a combination of imagining he's somewhere else physical (in as much detail as possible), and/or repeating the mental affirmation "I am now out-of-body", as he drifts off to sleep.

After that, he would typically awake with an onslaught of the vibrations, at which point he would just mentally will himself out of the body.

Anyone tried this method? If it works, it'd seem relatively easier than other methods I've been reading about so far.

ANyway, off to try it now! Wish me luck! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_big.gif" border=0>

A couple of weeks back, I had a great experience, but I'm not sure what to label it.

I went to bed, put on a Gateway CD (can't remember which). AFter it was over, I carried on maintaining consciousness, and was running around in my imaginery Focus levels, then after a while, BOOM!
I suddenly found myself on a snowfield, like a ski resort. in fact, I think I was on skis, except I was like squatting down on them, and pushing myself along the snow. I looked around, and everything was like very real. I remember checking to see whether all my senses worked, and it seemed they did. eg., I went past some clothing left on the floor, and picked it up to see if I could smell it, and I could!

Then I couldn't hold it any longer and the vision faded.

What was this??
I've lucid dreamt before and it feels very much like that kind of environment. but I know I never lost consciousness, so it's not like I woke up within my dream.
This also doesn't sound like the Bruce Moen type of phasing, if I understand that correctly, cos this experience was very vivid and full of detail.

Any ideas?

btw, any advice on how to maintain this state (if it happens again)?

Thanks!

KL

I'm so happy!!
Earlier today, I listened to some Gateway CDs, then after they ended, I just tried to stay relaxed and hold concentration, then after a while, I felt the vibrations!!
They were quite violent vibrations! At first, I was a bit scared, then I told myself there's nothing to be scared of, and to get ready for lift-off, and I was really hoping that it would happen.
The vibrations were only on my upper torso though.
they stopped for a while, then returned after a very brief moment, continued, and then they stopped.
I was beginning to really enjoy them too!

So what's meant to happen when/after you feel the vibrations?

What can I do to exit? Should I be trying to climb rope then? Or should I try to roll over, or just mentally will myself to lift off?

Why did the vibes stop??

KL

Thanks for the info, Paul!

hmm.... 5:30am might be a challenge, esp. as it would be difficult not to wake up the missus when the alarm goes off...

Why do you think you can't do it like in the afternoons? Is it cos you won't be sleepy enough?

KL

Let me take a stab at this one. This is what I have learnt (which may not be 100% accurate, mind you, so everyone else pls feel free to correct me).

OBE is where you actually perceive yourself as separate from your physical body, ie., you can even look back at your physical body. Separation is typically preceded by the sensation of vibrations.  This made up Monroe's experiences in Journeys Out of the Body.
From what I've observed, when you detach from your body using this 'classic' method of OBE, you (always?) first get into the "Real Time Zone", the level closest to the physical level which looks almost identical to it (ie., this is the level where you can perceive your physical body). From there, you can 'move' on to different levels (which makes up the bulk of Monroe's experiences in his second book, Far Journeys).
Robert Bruce and William Buhlman (2 other reknown OBE authors) also do it this way.

Phasing seems a little less simple to explain, as there seems to be different types of it.
In short, I believe phasing is the ability to tune your mind so that you can perceive the other dimensions, like a radio tuner. It does not involve 'leaving the body' as such, and all the while you have no doubt that you are still within your physical body.  This method seems faster to achieve.

There seems to be at least 2 different ways to experience phasing. There's a method developed by Bruce Moen (see his website and books), which has the advantage of being much more easily done, but the disadvantage of the person (at least initially) not being totally sure whether he/she had just made it all up in his/her mind.  With this method, you use your imagination first, and wait for things to 'happen' which you did not anticipate. This is probably an oversimplication so others pls share.
Then I think there's another type, where what you perceive is very real-like, full color 3-D sort of. I think I accidentally bumped into this type a few weeks back, but could only hold it for 1 minute or so.
Monroe himself spoke of a "quick-switch" method, which he used most of the time later (I think throughout the Far Journeys and Ultimate Journey books).  His Gateway Experience tapes/CDs, which take you through different "Focus" levels, are designed to achieve astral projection via phasing.

I'm still a newbie in this area, so I too would like to know how accurate/inaccurate my above understanding of the situation is.

HI Feelflowz,

I'm new here too and still seeking the OBE, having achieved only vibrations so far. From what little I know, I would say you could try the following:

- muscle-relaxation exercises (eg., the tensing/untensing exercises)
- do some other physical exercises (qigong could do, depending on the type you're doing)
- listen to brain-state altering sounds, eg., Hemi-Sync, or use the Brainwave Generator software (see the Astral Consciousness forum on this board).

I was most interested to see that you often do qigong first before getting your OBEs. After reading in Astral Dynamics how important energy flow is, I was just thinking about trying that. I used to do qigong myself, and can feel the chi well, but haven't done it for a couple of years now. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_dissapprove.gif" border=0>
Could you tell me more about your qigong exercises and its effect on your OBEs?

KL

I'd still like to know what you guys DO with your eyes when you close them. Are you actually "looking" and focussing on the blackness? Or do you just relax the eyes (like how you would when you go so sleep) and try to perceive whatever comes to the mind?

Do you understand the distinction I'm trying to make here?

Thanks again for your reply, Frank.
After having read more about the different phasing experiences, I would say that what happened to me that time was not the Moen-style phasing, which is what I understand is experienced by Ginny.

Before the *BOOM* and suddenly seeing the snowfield as clear as day, I was not imagining such a scenario. I think, if anything, I was runninng around my imagination-created Focus 'steps', pursuant to your (Frank's) most-excellent guided imagery tip in the Gateway Wave 1 pointers thread.  My imagination visuals are very unclear and foggy, nothing like that snowfield.

Feeling-wise, it's the closest to lucid dreaming, except I don't think it was a lucid dream as I don't believe I was in control of any aspect of it (though I must admit, I didn't try to shape the landscape in anyway, or fly around like when I have lucid dreams).  Also, I think the imagery was even clearer than a lucid dream.

So my guess would be that this was probably a spontaneous "Monroe-style 'quick-switch'" projection to the astral? (where in the astral I haven't a clue.) Pity it all ended so soon... http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sad.gif" border=0>

KL

thanks for the input!
I tried it twice yesterday, trying to imgaine another place and making the mental affirmation as I drift off to sleep.
First time I couldn't fall asleep! My body was not much there already, but my mind was still too awake.
Second time, I just dozed off without being able to hold my affirmations strong enough... http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_sad.gif" border=0>

oh well, will continue trying! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Thanks, Frank!

So IS this phasing then?
From what (I think) I understand about the Bruce Moen style of phasing, what you perceive is still more like your imagination (like when I'm imagining my F10 hut etc. where there's not much detail at all), just that things seem to pop into your 'imagination' without your prompting. Kinda like when I meditate using guided imagery on tape.  - Do I understand this correctly as the "Bruce Moen" style of phasing?

If so, then mine's not like that. In that, I didn't make ANY of it up. It's almost exactly like a lucid vivid dream (which I wonder whether it could be, though I'm sure I never lost consciousness).
Or is this what Monroe describes as the "quick-switch" method?  Is this "Monroe-style" phasing?

Some pointers to the articles by Ginny you were thinking of would be most appreciated too!

Thanks again!

KL

I tried it today, but whilst I did get funny sensations, I found that my back/shoulder muscles became slightly tense too, like you would if you were really using your real arms to pull on the rope.

If I just imagine using my mental hands to climb the rope, I don't get any sensations.  It's when I consciously really get into trying to feel a sensation and pretend really hard that i'm climbing the rope that I do get a sensation, but then my muscles tense slightly.

Anyone feel this too?

Thanks, guys! Will bear in mind your advice!

But I've tried again twice since then, but no vibrations...

KL

Thanks so much for the reply, Oliver!

How do I "push" the vibrations to the rest of the my body? Do I mentally will it?

I'm still not clear what I'm meant to be doing when I feel vibrations - ie,. am I meant to do anything at all or just relax and enjoy them?

Thanks again!

KL