Messages

Frank,
quick question...something is bothering me here. When I practice astral projection, I often see beings that are not human. I don't interact with them, but I do see them. And even if I specifically command myself to see energy directly, therefore weeding out hallucinations or subconscious projections, the entities are still there. I can see them as energy.

There was one time in particular that I was lying in bed and my body had fallen asleep and I was staring at my room through my eyelids. I saw something shaped like a tall black door/window in my room. I shouted out specifically that I'd like to see it as energy instead, to verify if it was real or not, and immediately the room went completely black. The door shape was illuminated, but not a typical illumination, it is hard to describe. Across the door shape was this black piece of something that looked like a wing, and it was rythmically flapping back and forth, with the sound of a bird's wings.

The thing that was weird was that I instantly remember seeing this same thing when I was a small child, and being scared of it. The exact image.

Anyways, there are other instances of times when I've been in 'real time' and seen entities around me. They seem like they are curiously watching me, not interactive at all.

But in lucid dreams, the characters morph and change and are mostly projections of my own imagination, and they are also really rude, and don't like it when I tell them that we are both dreaming. lol

So, which is hallucination and which is real? Is there a difference between the wild life in your lucid dreams and in your astral projections? Unlike Tahnor, I am not afraid of them or wishing to push them away or anything, but I can't help but feel that we don't really know whether or not everyone we encounter in our dreams is just a hallucination...

much affection,
Amber

[mind]

Frank,
That our mind is only focused on the physical reality, but able to focus on different realities at any point....this makes perfect sense to me. So, we assemble our focus here, but it doesn't necessarily occupy this exact space or reality, it's a part of a greater whole. And we could assemble our focus on other places and times just as easily, if we only wanted to.

I guess we all intuit that there is something other than the agreed upon reality that we currently share. But for most people it is just an intuition. That makes much more sense now. thank you for the clarificiation.

I guess what I was hung up on was the word mind itself. I associate mind with the brain and I also associate it with our internal dialogue...our thoughts. But I have to specifically shut off my thought process in order to do OOBE's. So, consciousness exists without the thought process that we normally associate with the word...mind. This is what was throwing me. So, when you said mind...I immediately thought...brain...and internal dialogue.

When is modern science going to catch up with us!!?? Is it that there is a gap because we don't have the equipment and technology needed to give us empirical evidence of OOBE's or the nature of this reality? Do we simply not have the machinery yet? Or is this something that may never be able to be proved/disproved scientifically and we have to accept this fact? In that case...maybe these experiences are personal because they deal directly with perception, and not to be proven or tested..period.


This is a tough one because a large part of me really doesn't give a crap if the rest of the world and the scientific community thinks these experiences are dreams or delusions or whatever. But there is just so much unexplored territory here, that would give us information about the nature of perception and reality.

It struck me as very close minded, when I was sitting in psychology class and the itty bitty paragraph about OOBE's and near death experiences was under the title: ESP. Is that all science can say about it still? lol

Anyways, enough ranting and raving. I'd like to check out your book, when you've finished. Sounds very interesting.

Thanks again,
Amber

Frank,
I understand what you mean, about your intent to see the person as being the link. This makes a lot of sense to me, although I am still fairly inexperienced with OOBE. It seems that our intentions do move us in the desired direction, even in 'waking life'.

My problem is with the language used, and the difficulty I'm having in correctly using terms to describe things that are outside the borders of 'physical reality'. For instance, out of body isn't an accurate description, for the reason that you pointed out - we are never out of body technically. We are in our secondary, or energetic body. So, we are never really in our bodies either...

I think it is important for me to understand what it is that I'm talking about in order to understand it better as a whole.
When you mention that our minds are connected and that they reside in the non-physical - this is where the syntax that you use confuses me.
When you use the word 'mind', are you referring to consciousness? Or are you referring to the brain and it's functions? Reasoning?

The reason I'm being picky here is just to try to intellectually grasp what it is that I'm experiencing.

I guess the word 'mind' is throwing me off because I understand 'awareness' or 'consciousness' as not being located specifically in the mind. It is my understanding that our minds are not separate from our bodies, it is all one unit. The part of us that 'intends' or puts our intentions out there...is it in our mind? Or is it in another part of our being?

So, when you say that our minds connect, it is giving me mental images of little brains floating around out there in the astral, connecting and hanging out.    Or are you referring to our thoughts? Or could you also, feasibly say that our 'hearts' are connected to each other as well?

Bear with me, here! lol Just trying to figure out the jargon that is floating around the astral forums.
Thanks,
Amber

BTW, Cube
the saltcube site kicks a**! That was my first time poking around on the site...
Love the people finder...I don't feel so alone anymore...lol  

Thanks for the help,
Amber

Frank, Cube, Nay et al,
thanks for the feedback! I'm going to check out some of the links and see what other people are up to in the astral these days...lol


Ok, so I'm putting it on my dreaming agenda list to visit this friend out of body.

One quick question for Frank,
Did you arrange a time to meet this friend out of body or did you just arrange a place to meet? Or both time and place? Or did you just get out of body and then concentrate on finding them? I'm curious about the process in general....
Any suggestions?

With much affection,
Amber

Hello everyone!
I'm curious...has anyone on this forum successfully met up with a fellow
OOBE'er in the Astral??? I believe it's possible and I remember reading something about it every once in a while. Sometimes people plan these elaborate systems of recognizing eachother while out of body and designing meeting spots ect. But then, either I am not paying attention, and there are successful meetings...or nobody has actually accomplished this.

I'm partly curious because I have a person in mind that I'd love to 'visit' while out of body. Just wondering if anyone has done this, and if they were successful. Also...how difficult is this task??

Thanks
Amber

yesterday, I was napping in the car, alone, while my friend was inside the bank. I had my head down on the armrest in the middle and I woke up a few times in that funny state where my body is asleep and won't move, but I'm awake. And I kept reaching out to grab the gear shift with my hand, not my physical hand, though. I would reach out and feel the cold metal and the knob at the top and then I would wake up and then slip back under to do it again. Finally I woke myself up trying to tell myself to open my eyes, I ended up opening my physical eyes.
There are never any vibrations. I am just reaching out my astral arm and hand... is this projection or just pre-projection? And I never  intentionally get this sort of thing, it seems to happen when I have been trying lately, but it isn't working and then I lay down for a nap one day and without all  the relaxation and trance crap...it just happens. I'm confused, because this is as far as I have gotten lately. No sight, just feeling around a little bit.
Amber

I have no exact method for getting out, they all sort of blended together, but usually I will be in a very light stage of sleep, hypnagogic state, and remind myself that I am in my bedroom and be able to just tell myself to float out. But the problem is that when I get out, it's dark! So, I tell myself to open my eyes, but when they are open I can hardly see anything. I feel tired, unable to focus and my eyes keep shutting until finally I just lose the will to sustain the experience and end up back in a dream.
Is there something wrong with me? Is this some sign of lack of energy or does it just take a lot of practice to be able to see once you are out of your body? Is there some psychological reason perhaps?
Anyone who can give me some pointers or personal stories, would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Amber

Well, I made it to the hypnagogic state this morning, fairly easily. Just told myself to when I laid down. Ok, so I am laying there and my eyes are closed, I tell myself to float and I feel my 'body' sit up and I put my legs over the side of the bed. I can 'feel' the carpet on my bare feet bottoms and I lean over to also touch the carpet with my hands. Then I told myself to open my eyes...and I am laying back down in my body again. I can't float up or leave, I am laying there  just staring at the ceiling...
So, I think I need some creative methods to 'get out'. Floating just doesn't do the trick...lol
Amber

Must have been ideal conditions this morning, about 7am, I woke up for just a few minutes and then lay back down with the intent to project. Everything felt 'go', if that makes any sense. Anyways, I rolled over onto my right side, it was much more comfortable and when I got to the sleep paralysis part, I just rolled over, sat up and walked out, like nothing. But my focus wasn't 100%, so I ended up back in bed a second later, stretched my arms up and looked around the room. Then I had the strangest sensation that the room was spinning, not like when you are drunk, but like when you are a kid and twirling around with your arms flung out. Sheer joy. And I cultivated the spinning feeling until I found myself in a dream, in a bathroom, looking in the mirror and playing with the items on the sink top.

Anyone else do the whole 'spinning thing'? I think I remember someone telling me it was a valid technique to change dream scenarios or something. Also, if I can go from OBE to lucid...um, this may sound strange, but where am I exactly? Is it a matter of awareness and perception? Or are they actually two different 'places'.

Amber

Ok, I have managed to get out a few times now on my own, but I read so many articles and books about astral projection that all the methods  are starting to blend together.

So, generally, I wake up a bit earlier than usual and do some light Yoga or similar excercises, have a glass of water ect. then I lay back down and my body is very relaxed, I stare at the inside of my eyelids and silence my mind, then I end up asleep. But, I wake up a little bit in between my dreams and so I noticed that if I concentrate on the details of the dream, I can let it pull me back in, and if I tell myself that I am going back into a dream and I am already outside my body...lo and behold, I find myself in my bedroom in my 'other body'.

So, I have no idea what I am doing...it's not in any of the books, this method. Well, parts of it are. And there is no hypnogogic state, I haven't had one of those for years, it isn't quite a lucid dream and I am not using any standard way to roll out or climb out, and there are certainly no vibrations or anything like that.
I would like to fine tune my experience, but I am not sure where to start as this is the only method that seems to produce any results, and yet it's not a precise one.

any suggestions to fine tune my technique of getting out?
amber

Well, I succeeded in getting out this morning, but I have a frustrating problem that I constantly feel my eyes closing during the experience. My non-physical eyes, that is. And I fight the entire time not only to stay focused, but also to just look around. One other frustrating thing is that I was unable to look back to see my sleeping body because there were blankets draped around my head??? wtf? And I couldn't shake them off, so I had to float around my apt. with these blankets on me.

Also, I am in my apartment, but things look slightly different, the rooms are all in the same order, but say for instance, my bathroom door is made of glass when in real life, it's wood. The time of day was correct and everything else was fine. Is it possible that it was just a lucid dream and not an OOBE, or is there little difference?
Amber

To satisfy some deep curiosity about the nature and mystery of humans and the reason why we are all here.

Ok, I lay down to attempt OBE, I do some energy center opening work and then systemmatically start to relax each part of my body one by one. I start to get a tingling in my feet, but not a pleasant tingle, an uncomfortable sensation. Like the same feeling as when someone points their finger at your third eye area, it's like the area itself has an awareness that extends beyond your skull and is 'feeling' the finger pointing at it. It's uncomfortable.
Anyways, I start to get it in my feet, mostly my right one and it travels up my calf and it becomes so unbearable that I have to repeated shake my leg to get it to go away. Then it starts in my hands and my forehead and the top of my head. Eventually, I get so frustrated with this sensation, that I spend more time undoing all the relaxation than I do actually relaxing. It's been happening for the last year or so, but in varying degrees each night. When it's too uncomfortable, I just turn onto my side and go to sleep, giving up entirely.
Does anyone have any suggestions for this? Should I be doing something in particular, like breathing or just bearing with it? Is this common?
Thanks in advance for any responses...
Amber

I find that when I am in the sleep paralysis part of OBE's, I have the most bizarre things happen to me. Like the other day, I felt my limbs getting heavy and realized that my body was asleep, so I just lay there with my eyes closed. I heard the sound of someone coming into my apartment, walking through the livingroom and throwing their keys on the table, then coming to my bedroom, picking something up off the floor, walking out again and closing the front door!!!

I live alone...

Or I will see someone walking into my room or standing over my bed. But the strange part is that they always resemble people that are very close to me like friends or family. But, I'll look up from my bed and see my mother in the livingroom staring at me even though she is miles away and it will freak me out! Or I'll look down and see that someone is resting their head on my feet, staring at me sleeping and wake myself up trying violently to kick them off of me.

anyone else report similar things in their bedroom in this between state?

Sometimes I get a prolonged sensation like a tickling at the crown of my head in the process of trying to have an oobe. I can actually play with it a little bit and sustain it, but I often just drop back to sleep, is there something specific about this sensation that I can work with to get out of my body?

Sweet Dreams,
Amber

Any tips on how to go from lucid dreams to OOBE's?

When I was about 17 or so, I began having some strange experiences that I had no explanation for at the time. Idropped out of highschool to take my GED and had the entirety of my days free. Mostly, I hung out with friends and took plenty of naps. This daytime napping produced the strangest dreams, where I would find myself in a paralyzed state, either alone or with something else in the room and I would be struggling to wake up to scream. I would sometimes hear haunting music and would have a desire to get up and follow it out of my sleeping body or I would be able to see into my bedroom or the livingroom and find someone that looked familiar standing there staring at me. Once, I came out of one of these states screaming my head off that there was something like a big black bird in the room with us, my boyfriend was just as confused as I was.

When I was older, I discovered the concept of lucid dreaming and began to dream. Sometimes I would be dreaming and then find myself looking at something odd in the dream, a greyish substance that covered my entire feild of vision- it turned out to be my pillow! I was staring at it with my eyes closed.
Then they became more elaborate, I could stay lucid for several minutes, flying and exploring around my dreams, often looking for my best friend Elizabeth who was my roommate and fellow lucid dreamer. We would compare notes the next morning and even though we tried often, we never found eachother in dreams. I would find a dream version of her and put it through a series of secret questions, she would fail of course and I would wake up. I liked the lucid dreaming and it was exciting, I much preferred it to the other experiences I was having of waking up in my body, paralyzed and terrified. But those didn't go away either. And sometimes I would lay down to do lucid dreaming and once again find myself immobile on my bed thinking, "this must be how people in comas feel...sheesh."

Then something strange happened. I woke up early one morning to do some light housework and after a half hour or so, I got sleepy, laid down on the couch and fell asleep. I had a strange dream about being in my apartment, the dream was so strange that it made me realize I was dreaming and then I was suddenly in my sleeping body on the couch, but fully awake. I tried to stand up and it felt as if I were moving through molasses, but I managed to stand and started to make my way across the livingroom towards the front door! I knew that if I turned around, I would see my sleeping body. I also knew that I didn't have much attention or focus left for fooling around so, I put all my energy towards getting to the door. Slowly, I walked, occasionally having to bend down and 'physically' pick up my legs, I got half way across the living room which through the eyes of my dreaming body looked like I had a fish bowl on my head. At some point, my roommate's alarm went off just as I was standing in front of her door, and I was thinking that it should wake me up, but there I was asleep, but also awake and standing in the middle of the room. I rushed as quickly as I could to the door with a lurching motion and flung it open! I found blackness, nothing and that is when I woke up. I laid there for several minutes just mulling over my experience while my roommate started to get ready for work. When she came out of the bathroom, she started to make breakfast and asked me if I had been outside. "No", I replied, "I have been sleeping on the couch. Why?"
"Because just as I was turning off my alarm, I could have sworn I heard a door slam."

I was floored.
I still am and it has been more than 3 years later. Since that point I did some research about OOBE's and although my interest has waxed and waned according to what is taking precedence in my daily life, I more or less pursue it as often as I can. I haven't been able to reproduce my earlier success just yet, I have definitely made some progress. So, this is where I am right now, I am able to, just before I drop off, make a suggestion to have a lucid dream and surely I will have one. I can hold my attention on the dream for a few minutes or so and sometimes get overly excited and wake myself up. I also find myself in my sleeping body a lot, but only in brief flashes and then it disappears. I have been attempting some of the methods that I read about, starting with relaxing the body and inducing a trance state, I have had some mild success with these and I am looking forward to getting lots of advice and help with this new found talent of mine. I am so happy to have found several strong communities on this subject finally!

Sweet dreams,
Amber

Kairu,
thanks for clarifying this,
ok. So, you can touch things then? Good, because I was really doubting the fact that I was sleep walking or hallucinating. It felt like the gear shift, period.

So, the question remains, do these little 'feeling around' moments, qualify as bonafide projections? Or are they just half way points or something? I am just getting them a lot and I'd like to know how to classify them, not that it is horribly important, I'm just curious.

thank you much,
Amber

Patik,
thank you for the help. yes, that is how it felt, like I was reaching out with my arm and playing with the gear shift, but when I opened my eyes, there was no arm, I was just laying there. So, I guess it was a phantom or hallucination in between sleep and awake.

That's pretty funny that you were looking at a clock that didn't exist...

Amber

Hmmm, so perhaps it was a dream, a lucid dream that I was reaching out to touch the gear shift?

I had my eyes closed, though, so then this was a lucid dream, but not in the dream pool, as I was still conscious of being in the car? It felt like I was laying in the car, the same way I fell asleep...same position, but I just couldn't move my body, only something that reached out from me, a hand, and grabbed the gear shift and found it smooth, the way it feels in real life, and the knob at top. I don't know if the damn thing was cold or not, I might have been taking writer's liberties there by saying it was cold...lol Maybe I really did reach out and touched it in my sleep?!
So, in astral, you can't close your eyes?
Amber

The mind is a powerful thing, but even if this is an incredible hallucination...well that's a discovery in and of itself.
And what if this whole life is a hallucination? It starts to get really confusing to me...lol

Well, I was one of those people who had no intentions of projecting or having OBE's. I just started doing energy work on my own for health and obvious benefits, when I woke up one day completely out of my body in real time and wandered around my apartment for a long time. I even went into my roommate's bedroom and stood there listening to her alarm clock going off and her moving around in bed, even though I was really sleeping in the next room. It was something that couldn't have happened, not even by stretch of the imagination if this were just a wild hallucination.
So, I guess the answer is to find out for yourself. Go find out! Prove it wrong or prove it right!
with affection,
Amber

Smooth,
I have only successfully projected during the daytime, actually. I have had some experiences at night, but generally, I am so tired, it makes it impossible to sustain the trance without plunging directly into sleep.
During the daytime, if I take a nap, or if I get up early and then go back to bed while it is still light in the morning.
As for wildlife, I get more of those during the nighttime, I think they are curious about us dreamers and like to watch us, or play with us while we are projecting...

Amber

Wow, cool. Not that I needed any more argument for eating cheese. But this is worth a try, could be so simple that it actually works...lol

*loading up plate with smoked gouda*  []

Trade, I forgot one more technique that seems to help if you have the discipline to carry it out. Wake up a little early, like a half hour, get up and drink some water, read a book about lucid dreams ect. whatever, for a few minutes, then lay back down and tell yourself to have a lucid dream. Fall asleep, and chances are, you'll have one.
Amber