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I should have known this would turn into a philosophical masturbation lol   all your answers were helpful and insightful thank you. I see what you are saying about not needing to understand it, however in my case AP is too hot to handle, and LD is easy as pie. If they're the same thing then I guess I don't need to learn AP because there would be no point.

Let me reiterate my question - My only AP attempts where cancelled do to an extreme vibrations and I couldn't even handle it (too much emotional leakage from the heart and crown). I've never had anything like that in a lucid dream. Not even close, but I bet it's not hard to do either. One commonality in my dreams is that there are always what dream yogis call 'karmic traces' basically just subconscious emotional mental residue(but with present moment awareness, the karmic traces fade and you can have spiritual experiences). AP half exits I had I could see my room with my eyes closed but couldn't do this in an LD. So in my subjective experience it appears that lucid dreams start as karmic traces, emotional stuff from your day but with enough awareness can be transformed into a spiritual breakthrough which seems to transcend limitation thus transcending the labels as you say. Whereas AP is directly jumping into that higher state without the dream as a transition. As Xanth was saying in his blog. So a big question is about how most people report seeing waking world in their AP's, people places and events actually happening and its verifiable. Haven't heard about that type of experience from an LD yet.

New question: What is your subjective experience with the difference between AP and LD if any? Are they the same?

[Any experience you have in a reality which you consciously identify as not being this physical reality is a "projection"]

I drop all of those labels... and I make it very easy.

Any experience you have in a reality which you consciously identify as not being this physical reality is a "projection" (you don't need to qualify it with "lucid", "astral" or anything else...).

And when you get right down to the nitty gritty, even this physical reality experience you're currently having right this very second... is a projection.

Thanks for the reply,

Yeah through lucid dreaming I have learned that life is also a dream that operates under many of the same principles even though it might not seem like it. I've only had a couple close AP encounters that were extremely intense and short, yet I've had many long lucid dreams but they weren't the same experience really. I found similarities but I noticed many teachers like robert bruce who teaches both AP and LD claims they are definitely not the same 'realm' of experience even though it's a projection.

EDIT: Found an article about it by robert bruce http://blog.astraldynamics.com/2009/11/30/the-differences-between-real-time-and-astral-obe-and-lucid-dreaming/

Really cool integrates what you were saying about both just being projections, he finally says the AP is more of a physical/astral body double, whereas lucid dreaming is more of a mental projection, however the lucid dream can have astral experiences and the asrtal realm is also overlapped with the mental so can ironically go both ways.

After a good run or a good workout, I usually feel much more relaxed.  That relaxation really helps in regards to meditation.  It would be easier to project from that state, yes.

Yeah it makes all the difference in my opinion, also breaks up blockages in the energy body making the energetic system flow more naturally, way easier to meditate.

I believed that LD was always internet, and AP always a projection into the 'outer astral realm'. One dream yoga teaching keeps saying that since our body is lifting out of the physical in sleep a bit, the dream world and lucid dreaming is in the astral. I could see it being in the same density of physicality, but internal rather than astral.

A small differentiation, but a big impact, Thoughts?

Ah right I've heard of that. The thought crossed my mind too. Could you tell me a bit more about that? Sometimes during important moments of waking life I spontaneously visualize vivid images of tigers, later looking this up and finding out tiger animals can appear for people at hard emotional moments as a symbol of courage and whatnot.

Hey all,

So 2 of the more vivid "Real" lucid dreams I've had more recently involved me realizing I'm dreaming, then doing the jump test to become Lucid.

2 of the times as soon as I became lucid everything was very intense - the realization I am in another world. This is not some "false" world compared to the "real" physical waking life, but an intrinsic complex reality of it's own. This "Ah" moment when I first become lucid is overwhelming for my physical consciousness to become aware of. When I have these times a dog will always appear, and I usually start feeling very emotional, a little bit of sadness and a lot of love. One dream I hugged the dog and said "I love you" and was almost crying then woke up, more recently it was a white dog (other was black) and I remember feeling a bit emotional but didn't actually remember it until a day later when reading about dreams.

I asked the universe why I see a dog when I lucid dream quite often. The response was something like this:

When I become lucid, I know I am awakening to a new reality, not just playing in imagination land. It is very real. Since my physical consciousness is limited in what it comprehends about the universe, it can become very scared when something from the unknown begins moving to my conscious mind. When I have these dreams, my higher self recognizes this and may be creating a dog in my dreams to help allay any fears I have of the dream world, since I love dogs. This hypersensitive emotional lucid dream world seems to amplify everything, so by placing a dog in the dream when I become lucid, I bring up the feeling of love to conquer my subconscious fears.

So anyway, this is just a theory I came up with about why I've seen dogs recently when lucid in dreams. If anyone has and ideas on alternative reasons and would like to add to what I said it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! 

Thanks for the tip, very helpful!

So about 2 weeks ago I went to a Shamanic Ayahuasca ceremony at which I experienced the most painful psychological, emotional, and physical experience of my life by a million. I died and went to hell, then managed to come back.

The two reasons this is related to my OBE are - It awakened me to MUCH more of the non-physical immersed within our reality, and after the ceremony I was in an extremely heightened state of consciousness.

After the 3 nights of the ceremony I couldn't sleep for about 35 hours because I was in the clouds more or less and overwhelmed with excitement. That day I had accidentally bought the wrong crystal (orange calcite) which opens all your chakras and boosts your energy, it also promotes OBE's. I laid down to meditate and try to sleep because I knew I had to get some sleep and for some reason I placed the crystal on my chest lol. I cleared my mind and sort of dozed off lightly.

About half an hour in I woke up outside of my body, I was about a meter and a half above my bed, and looking out the window (sideways compared to my physical body). Out the window I saw a dark ball of energy a bit smaller than a basketball and electricity coming off it. and I could tell it was trying to communicate with me. I got the feeling it was an extraterrestrial but I began freaking out and calling my guides for help and eventually got sucked back into my body.

My whole body was warm and stimulated and I could tell the crystal had played a part in it and it was still perfectly balanced on my solar plexus region.

Now later that night when I was trying to sleep I felt an extremely intense uncomfortable energy in my room next to my bed trying to connect with me and heard a strange buzzing sound. I knew there was an entity trying to communicate with me, so I decided to try and talk with it, I'm not sure if I was communicating properly but basically it was trying to trigger my ego and give false fear-based information to me. Involving an alien intervention and such. It was extremely disturbing and I felt scared and shooken up after. Clearly it was a malevolent being. I'm wondering if that was the same being I saw during my OBE. It could be, it might not be.


If anyone has any insight or ideas based on my experience please share.

Thanks

Awesome great advice everyone.

I have been practicing with Stephen LaBerge techniques. Also have a journal but am always rushed to work in the morning then I usually write what I remember on a document which is rarely more than a few sentences by then.

Still I am remembering on average about 3 dreams per night now which is pretty good. Once my work is finished I will be able record in my journal as soon as I wake up every day.

Thank you,

Yeah I think the best thing for me to raise my vibration is to give love to the situations that appear negative rather than resisting them.

Ah my third eye is calmed down now, but is also much more powerful.

Can see spirits much better, also had a spontaneous OBE. Connection with my guides is improved.

Ayahuasca helped me get much more grounded the night I died so maybe that helped the base chakras and the extra energy was able to flow down.

Hey guys I've been practicing lucid dreaming on and off for a while now.

Last night I had another one I checked the clock multiple times it kept changing I yelled out "I'm dreaming!!!" and tried to fly but could barely get off the ground.

Then my feet were lighter and I started getting dragged around everywhere by my feet lol.

I tried asking my spirit guides to visit and everything was pretty chaotic I ended up waking up after about 10-15 seconds.

Clearly I need to remain more calm when I wake up in the dream


Any advice for me/techniques for once you become lucid?

Hey guys,

What practices work best for you to raise your vibration?

Other than mediation and exercise and eating well.

Thanks!

Hey guys, thanks for your replies.

So over the weekend I had a class with mother Ayahuasca

Basically I died and came back, she did some nice energy work for me in the process, including operating on my brain from the inside out which was a million times the most painful experience of my life, but now I am awake so I am infinitely grateful.

Both posts are very helpful thank you.

Lucifer I heard that if your chakra is burning intensely it probably means its trying to compensate for the closed ones. Honestly I feel like many of my lower chakras are very restricted, or perhaps my crown is closed which would do it too.

Hey guys so 9 months ago I had a shocking spiritual awakening in which I felt like I left my body and merged with source shortly. It changed my beliefs and views of the universe over night and has been hard for me to adapt to my new beliefs.

Anyway since then I noticed when I began meditating I could feel my third eye, I later learned about the chakras.

Recently it has been more intense than ever, I can activate it whenever I want and it feels like someone is pushing their thumb with 10 pounds of pressure between my brows. Last night I tried meditating with lapis lazuli crystal which is a powerful third eye stimulant and it was the most pressure I've ever felt on my third eye.

My question is: Clearly my third eye is open and has lots of energy flowing, so what's the point? Is there something I can do with it?

I can't feel any of my other chakras hardly at all, after that experience my crown felt open a lot, but over the past months I haven't felt it at all and when I meditate I can feel a pressure on the upper right front of my skull.

Hey guys I want perspectives and opinions!

Nothing in my experience can prove or disprove past lives, whether literal or merely energetic. I got some past life readings done and not sure how I feel about it. I believe it is possible it helped me, but I also feel it is possible someone stole my watch and sold it back to me xD.


What do you think about past lives in general, then what do you think about paying for a reading?

Hey Everyone!

So I feel my spirit is very sick and through all my attempts (meditation, yoga, acupressure, therapy, psychic, etc.) I have been unable to get "back to normal".

About 9 months ago I had a shocking experience while laying in my bed when I unexpectedly began feeling extremely intense vibrations and total bliss and exctasy with a mixture of emotions (I was doing it consciously but didn't know what I was doing). The feeling grew stronger and stronger until I felt I was leaving my body except not so much like an OBE but I felt one with the entire universe and it was one with me. Despite the visions the feeling was probably over 10X anything I've felt in my entire life. I wrote about it in this topic http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_projection_experiences/first_experience_life_changing_ap-t43004.0.html

After that experience I remember waking up one morning a few days later I said to myself "my spirit is in major pain" event though at the time I didn't even believe in a spirit so it was a strange thing to pop in my head, things began changing rapidly for me, I was shocked into spirituality more or less. Since I've sunk deeply into depression, no so much the feeling sorry for myself but the inability to feel what I used to. When I listen to music I love or play or hang out with my girlfriend I feel a tiny fraction of what I used to feel, even on the best days when I'm totally fine. It's more of a numbness.

I hear a common idea in spirituality is it's always darkest before sunrise. Or you sink deeply into darkness before slingshotting forward into a complete transformation that some call enlightenment. I am not a guru who desires to be enlightened, however I do want to be at peace and feel myself again. I have had MANY positive changes since then that have really helped me, however I don't think a million changes will solve my "problem" I think I need a complete transformation. A psychic told me during that experience a part of my soul left and a higher part came in/is coming in.

Since then I've had 3 experiences where I felt okay again, but I was more than okay I was totally blessed and it felt like enlightenment although I don't like using that term. The first two where with mushrooms where after my friends and I ate the mushrooms I would feel my own energy but amplified immensely, I felt all the pain and discomfort and couldn't help but cry and surrender, then after I would surrender I felt unlimited and myself again for about 4 hours until the high wore off.

Mushrooms more or less taught me I need to surrender and give myself to love. I felt I may have kept emotional baggage (about 4 months ago I broke up with my girlfriend and suppressed some emotions), I became more and more aware that I have "lost myself completely" which upsets me greatly and I have done a LOT of crying and surrender over the past month and a bit but I feel my problem is much deeper than suppressed emotions, there is also a pain behind my heart. No matter how much crying I do I still feel closed off and discomfort.

The other experience where I felt this divine intelligence and bliss was the most recent and there was NOT any drug inolved. After reading the power of now by eckhart tolle (I had read it in the past and am aware of my thoughts) I became even more conscious of my thoughts than usual, I realized many of the negative thoughts I have are stemming from what he calls the pain body which is more or less the unconscious pain that has stacked up over your entire life. I became so extremely aware of this I felt the major discomfort like when I was on mushrooms. Laying in my bed my body felt some pain especially in my heart and began twitching a bit and I would moan in pain uncontrollably, tears began pouring out after a bit but nothing like the other times I cried, it was just completely pouring out with no intention of crying and without being sad about anything. I became very intense and I was able to feel energy flowing in my body again, and I felt pain and suffering but also felt the best I've felt in a long time. During this hour or so I felt VERY similar as to when I was on mushrooms, I was receiving visions from the spiritual dimension that I don't normally get and despite the pain I felt enlightened and amazing. However as soon as I stopped feeling thing everything returned to normal...almost as if I had temporarily received some natural high. During this time I was TOTALLY present in the Now, normally I am not, my mind wonders compulsively. I am able to get ahold of it to a degree but even when I am totally aware of it it still runs. I need to practice becoming more present at all times, but there may be other things going on because even when I get present say in a singing/dancing class I only feel a portion of what I used to.

If anyone has anything that might help me based on my experiences/ideas I'd be very happy,

Thank you

So I've been doing a lot of dream recall and experimenting with lucid dreaming over the past couple months. About 4 times I became lucid in a dream but would either loose it shortly or wake up, this one was different.

The Dream:

I was in my kitchen talking to my mom when she tried to kiss me, I was weirded out and turned my head, then she kept trying to kiss me on the lips which disturbed me the the possibility I might be dreaming. I immediately looked over at the stove clock to see 3:43 then looked away and back and it said something completely different, then once again to be sure. I KNEW it was a dream and yelled out "I'M DREAMING!!" with excitement.

Suddenly I began lifting off the ground, everything around me began fading to white light as I lifted faster and faster until I was going at extreme speeds (As I first began doing this I saw a big green lovely tree) then kept going up and up surrounded by white in all directions until some being appeared, his head was right in my face but upside down. I was kind of shocked and looked away and avoided direct contact with it. Then I woke up.



Does anyone have any ideas of interpretation as to why that happened when I became lucid? Other times everything remained the same but I was just conscious of a dream. One spiritual teacher I know said that a part of my soul left and a new part is going to come in. Thoughts on that or who the being might have been?



-Unrelated Question- In the past month I've had about 4 dreams where someone has been channeling to me. Usually it's bashar (a man who channels an extraterrestrial and is very wise and helpful) saying crazy profound things. I can hardly remember what the channeler is saying but it's a constant flow of information that I am imagining nonetheless. I have been interested in channeling lately and reading a book on it, perhaps this is a sign that I should try it. Any thoughts on this?

Update: I knew my heart had been closed off since a recent long term relationship was broken apart, in addition to childhood/family issues currently coming more to term with. I knew I hadn't been experiencing much feelings over the past 6 months - year but sort of neglected it. The other night I was with the girl I'm seeing and we smoked some weed for fun and we were sitting on the couch and I felt my heart and felt this deep down pain, without realizing she was looking at me she said "you look sad" then tears started coming to her eyes and then I realized I had brought ignored/suppressed emotions from the past into a new relationship which is preventing it from flourishing which resulted in me crying a bit.

This closed heart is essentially the source of my fears and doubts, I feel if I can allow it to open back up I'll be inspired and more motivated than ever. Since in that experience I had I was basically opening my heart and raising it's vibration to the point where I more or less transcended physical reality.

Thoughts on open/closed heart with astral projection?

Talk to you then.

You may find cryptic lessons in your dreams. These will be very clear and your memory of self is adjusted for the experience. You'll remember them well.
As far as ego is, there may be more to you than you know yourself.
Again time will tell.
Lets hope so, you've everything that's required so far from your posts to progress into far more than you are at present.
You'll already feel something has been missing for a long time. A purpose or a 'can't quite put the finger on it' sort of feeling.

Familiar?

Yeah I've been keeping a dream journal and interpreting them every day. Couple times I've realized I'm dreaming but either shortly after lose the lucidity or wake up forgetting what happened. Only been attempting lucid dreaming for maybe 3 or 4 weeks now though.

Yeah I've been waiting for "that thing" so I can "move forward" even though I am perfectly able to move forward in whatever endeavors I choose and do reasonably well it still feels like that "thing" is missing from my experience.

Whatever the thing is that initial experience is the closest I've ever gotten to finding out, and ever since I've only realized how much more it's missing.

@its_all_bad Yeah what you're saying makes sense - ultimately I've done it before so I know how to do it again if I can just clear my mind and overcome fears.

In simple terms,
You've been given a fast car for travelling.
Everyone else has to walk.

This first experience is what you'd expect to hear about after 10 years or more of experiences.
It's so rare for a first. As if God decided to favour you and bless you with the experience. That's where being kissed by a muse came to mind.

Interesting, if this is true I hope my ego won't get in the way of my higher self

Great replys thank you!

Looked up being kissed by a Muse, I happen to have a knack for video production. Recently have spent a few thousand on equipment and will be creating a youtube channel for comedy, consciousness, love, music and science type videos. I've also been learning to produce and making some music and improving quickly, however if I had to pick one I would say I have a "dormant" video production talent that's waiting to explode. I have been producing and learning about video since I was young but this time is different I plan on exploding..but I've almost been waiting for something (a successful AP to inspire me to move forward) however in order to AP I know I have to raise my vibration which almost creates a paradox with this catch 22 desire.

Ultimately I'm going to start making videos very soon regardless and hope to do the two together.

@szaxx what are your thoughts on this as far as "Being kissed by a muse goes?

Thanks for the welcomes!

@Lionheart I would say that's exactly it "returning to source" Felt like I was being reborn. However now that I know it's possible to do that and I haven't since every day life has been seeming very mundane and I've been very confused, the more I know the more I know I don't know. It seems like I don't want to return to that state but rather I need to to continue here on earth.

@Bedeekin Thanks for the tip!