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i know what you mean, this is certainly the coolest 2012 idea, although unfortunately it's just as unbelieveable, maybe even more so considering what it would mean.

If Earth ends up with a bunch of men wearing tights and capes and shooting eye-lazers, I'm leaving

heh, if everyone was a superhero there'd be no point in the tights and cape, everyone would have abilities so you wont stand out that much either way (unless it was the most idiotic costume ever imagined)

you talk about knowing this stuff, and i assume you know through astral projection and the like, so others should be able to confirm if what you're saying is real and not something you may have inadvertently created in your projection as a result of thinking there are aliens out to enslave us.

i hope you dont take this the wrong way, but i'm not going to start to accept the idea that the universe is full of power hungry civilisations that act as you have described until someone other than yourself can confirm what you're saying via their own projections e.t.c. although i'll certaily listen and consider everything that is said otherwise and if i happen to confirm any of this myself i'll certainly post about it.

we havent been broadcasting for "hundreds" of years, only for a max of around 140 years. however the point still stands... if aliens were intersted in conquest they'd have done it long ago. although there may be some beings out there who may seem to think like we humans think, you also must remember that we humans can show a lot of love and compassion as well as our destructive side, you just wont see the nicer stuff on the news often because, well, controversy always sells more papers.  

i have these kind of thoughts often, although i never think of my family like this. i play a lot of violent video games and watch a lot of action/horror movies so i know where the thoughts get their, for lack of a better term, 'good material' from. although i have these kind thoughts it's more like a "i wonder what would it would look like if i took a chainsaw to that guy's face" feeling, not an "omg, i have to take a chainsaw to that guys face" feeling so i just shrug it off as an overactive imagination that enjoys it's action and horror. also when it comes to right down to it i have a strong will to do the right thing and nothing (or very little) for negative reasons, so i don't think i would be in any situation where i would consider such an act, unless it was the lesser of two evils and i have absolutely no 3rd choice.

i doubt you'll ever completely relieve yourself of all disturbing thoughts, even if there was some negative entity making you think like that, it's only natural that it could happen if you let your mind wander. you're only human, expect human flaws.

i know what you mean, however nice and productive it may be for everyone to not be xenophobic, in some senses i love that they are because i can laugh at how utterly foolish they are. like yourself, i wont ever demand that they change their attitudes, because it's so amusing, however i would certainly encourage people change this attitude.

21) And finally, Blackjack

...awesome...

Oh geeze...
I saw that trailer during the previews for a movie recently, I forget exactly which one it was.
But, yeah... *sigh*

That movie is gonna cause so much mass panic... *rolls eyes*

You're thinking of District 9. Looked ok to be honest. After looking into it, it looks like the plot is like, they came for help, but we treated them bad, so they start retaliating. Also anyone who would panic over it is an idiot (although i suppose the world is full of them), most of the adverts have something in it to give away that it's a sci-fi movie trailer, and not some sort of documentary trailer.

Tbh if we do make contact with aliens i hope we're not as xenophobic as the humanity shown in this movie.

i noticed when you were asked about energy work you basically respoded by saying that you kept yourself fit. although it probably helps to be fit thats not really what "energy work" is in this case. Energy work is basically the opening of chakras, which are "wheel-like vortices which, according to traditional Indian medicine, are believed to exist in the surface of the etheric double of man."(wikipedia ftw). Personally i have little experience with them and aint entirely convinced, although usually after imagining a vortex between my eyes (where your thrid eye would be if it exists) for a little while that part of my head feels weird, almost as if the skin in that region is gently rotating, so it could be real for all i know. Look around the forum for information on chakras and energy work, there's bound to be loads.

[original]

disclaimer: I niether wrote nor do I accept resonsabilaty for any dangerouse stunts that may follow.

(off topic, sorry) i'm sorry but i keep reading your spelling of dangerous (dangerouse) as 'dangermouse' and that one just cracked me up, i had to say something.


anyways, back to the original original topic, i used to swear i heared UFO-ish noises and saw lights through my bedroom curtains as a young child during the middle of some nights (back of the house so definately not cars passing by). i also used to have a recurring nightmare quite frequently (for around 5/6 years straight infact) where i was convinced this thing coming up the stairs was some sort of alien hell bent on doing something to me. that was until of course i got to around the age of 11, defended myself and blew it's torso-head thingy apart with my invisible rocket firing pump action baseball bat (no joke). never had it again after that. dont know if it was supposed to mean anything or what, just thought i'd mention it.

recently though i have been somewhat been very drawn back to aliens for some inexplicable reason, almost as if something is telling me to think about it. kinda feel that there's something important about it... i know it sounds sad but i keep checking BBC news for stuff on space or aliens for no other reason but "OMG I HAS TO LOLOL!", which makes me feel like an idiot... -.-

if there really are aliens out there on the way, or even already here then i'd highly doubt they'd be violent. if they were so violent a race they'd kill or enslave billions then chances are they'd have either killed themselves through nuclear war (or worse). even if they were, why come billions of miles to take over a planet? if they've travelled that far they would surely have made some sufficient technological advances in terraforming well before having the technology to travel so far, and probably would have no need for slaves as their robotics would be outstanding enough to do everything they required.

Secondly, we have people who love death, love torment, and love the people who cause it. They cannot coexist with people who love order.

Agreed, however how would one go about removing such a cancerous attitude from society without giving these people exactly what they're looking for or even worse, inadvertently moving peoples personalities towards such a state? If you were to exact justice or retribution upon a gang member (through imprisonment or otherwise) surely his cohorts and any close friends would respond to it through more death, torment, deception or negative thoughts that could eventually lead to such acts?

This 'disorder' attitude cannot be eliminated through actions that you would associate with disorder, they would only serve to create or enhance this negative attitude, disorder only creates more disorder. I imagine it would be almost impossible to turn someone from such a negative attitude through acts that would be considered belonging to that of order, most would shun it and laugh, or ignore it completely, but it at least has a chance. Thermodynamically, particles in the universe move towards a state of greater entropy (more disorder), and it usually takes a great deal of energy to move these particles towards a more ordered state, it's quite probable that these attitudes are manipulated the same way.

I guess the thing thats holding most people who love order back from acting as such is possible fear of being ridiculed or pressured by people who love disorder. I imagine some high tensions between some countries with bad pasts (not mentioning any countries in specific of course... *cough* US *cough* Russia *cough*) could easily be laid to rest if only their repective leaders had the guts to trust each other. But alas, with a world with an unknown percentile of these negative people in the populous i suppose you cant really expect anyone to trust anyone else without 'really' getting to know them first... ...pity.

the truth of it is, it's highly unlikely that we'll ever rid the world of these negative people, we can only hope to calm them and attempt to persuade younger generations to be in favour of order.

you want to know how to save the world? so do i. 

you think you know how to save the world? i hope you've had a good, long, and hard think about it.


*grabs fingers and screams in pain*

good old focus 10, by far the hardest part of projection (at least to me). unfortunately i rarely ever seem to get into this unless i've just woke up, and i'm sick of trying then as half the time i forget i'm so groggy...

when you see your hand can you move it? if you havent tried it i suggest that you do, it's not quite as much as turning your entire etheric body around so i'd assume it's less likely to break the trance. if it does dont panic about it or curse at yourself or anything, just stay relaxed and focused and it should be back in no time. experiment, try your arm, then see if you can raise your other one, or both at the same time, then try turning around.

PS, as there's already a thread open about F-10 i'd like to ask here, when i try AP any time other than 'as soon as i wake up' i always get so close to F-10 then a random limb thats not quite numb yet (usually the only one left to go) always starts to ache/itch for some reason, or something makes a loud noise, both of which obvioulsy upset my concentration... does anybody else have this sort of problem? and if you 'did' and don't any more could you spare any advice? as you can imagine this is quite annoying.

the fact that you're concentrating on something that you shouldn't need to concentrate on may have something to do with it. i always just ignore the fact that i cant see and imagine that i can, sooner or later i realise that i can see and problem of no sight is solved without even having to worry about it (this is assuming i actually made it out of body).

Alright, I'll explain this by putting my self in the shoes of the killer. Let's say I threatened to kill someone and then they surprised me and killed me. They just didn't murder me, I threatened them and then they retaliated. If they just killed me out of nowhere THEN it would be murder.

thats what i was saying, the fact is it's very unlikey or impossible for you to kill someone through AP in self defence. in my opinion you should defend yourself like everyone else would. if you feel you need to go out and buy a few tazers or something then fair enough, booby trap your house if it'll make you feel any better.

...but it's your choice of what to do. If you make what most would consider a wrong choice then ok, fair enough, provided you're willing to live with the consequences.

Me thinks this thread should have been locked after page 2. 

indeed, not only is it about killing someone, albeit in self defence, but because this thread touches on something we all hold strong and somewhat differing opinions on and i can only see this thread leading to more flaming. yet if the mods feel there's a good reason for this to stay open then so be it...

What if it was the night before he was planning to attack you?

Also I would think some people would be able to AP in a serious situation because there are cases of people being able to astral project at will (a few seconds or a strong wish to leave the body.)

if it was the night before, when he may be planning to kill you then you are not in imminent danger as of yet, so that would still be classed as murder.

sure there are those that can project at will, the rare few, but they still usually do it whilst relaxed, and unless you can keep your cool when someone is breaking down your door with a fire axe then i doubt you'll be able to pull it off. you'd probably be better off staying in the physical, where you at least know you can defend yourself. even if you did manage to OBE in such a situation, chances are you'll not be able to concentrate well enough to pull off something like that, if it's even possible. no, just stick with your own fire axe, you'll have a much better chance of surviving if you stick to the physical plane to defend yourself.

btw im assuming someone gave u neg karma for talking about killing someone. sure, you may be saving the life of your family, or countless thousands, but never the less, killing someone is still bad however well you coat it with icing and chocolate sprinkles, and planning to kill someone is, probably in some respects, even worse.

i'd say that you should get it into your mindset to believe that vibrations are awesome, but then you may get excited about them when you feel them and then inadvertently fail.

just imagine that they're not there, and if you feel them be aware of them but dont think about them. hell, sometimes you dont even need vibrations.

Point A)  What if the person is a known killer and has made death threats to you or your family and also if you go to the police your life would be in danger from his cohorts.

if you know that said person is a murderer then just be prepared to protect yourself when/if anything happens. if you have to kill them in order to protect yourself or family when it happens then that's just the way it has to be, you don't have much choice.

Point B) What if you are attacking in defense by taking preemptive offensive measures.

This probably depends on when you would strike, A preemptive offensive is NOT defensive, it is always offensive. If said murderer were to, say for example, break into your house with clear intention of doing harm to you or your family then OK, maybe a preemptive strike may be acceptable considering you're in imminent danger. however to go to the guy's house and plug him or whatever would still be classed as murder.

Point C) What if you are in danger but not immediate danger and you decide to take action during the safest time.

i suppose it again really depends when that time is. if he's not looking to harm you at that time then it'd still be classed as murder.


there's no way you could pull off killing someone whilst APing when you're in immediate danger, you wouldn't have the time, nor would you be able to relax enough in order to AP anyways. your only choices would be physical defence (manslaughter), physical offence (murder), astral offence if it's even possible (murder, although i doubt anyone could ever link you to it), risking going to the police about it or ignoring him and hoping for the best.

If you kill a killer maybe there would be less killing so therefore violence is a successful method of decreasing violence. Is that karma?

If you kill a killer there wouldn't be any less killing, as not only have you probably just made up for how many people they'll have killed, but chances are you'll have ticked off his/her friends/cohorts, and they'll come out for revenge. if anything it'd increase the amount of killing, unless of course, you were someone like batman who instilled fear into the hearts of would-be perps, then there's a chance it'd work. and no thats not karma, karma is like, say, if you helped 10,000 orphans by donating $50k to whatever charity, then the next Saturday you win the national lottery, or if you cheat in an important competition but get hit by a car later that year. it's like, umm, i don't know, when you always hear about how the bad guy will always eventually get what he deserves, though it works both ways.

anyways, make your own decision, but be prepared to live with whatever consequences for the rest of your physical life, however long (or short) it may be.

pulsexx: When a mother defends her children from an axe murderer with a gun do you go telling her how rotten it was of her to have used a gun to kill a human being?

No you dont but there is a difference:

Point A: When a mother defends her children from an axe murderer with a gun, she is actually there, she REALLY knows that the guy (or gal, i suppose) is a murderer, whereas (as far as i'm aware) you cannot KNOW for certain if someone is a TRUE murderer before they actually strike. sure they may have traits that fit a murderer, but that doesnt mean that they're actually going to kill someone.

Point B: When a mother defends her children from an axe murderer with a gun, she is acting in defence, not purposely seeking out to kill the murderer. Therefore when she kills the murderer it's classed as manslaughter, where if you killed a murderer via method you're suggesting you would yourself be classed as a murderer (although sure any authority would have a real hard time proving that you were)

Point C: When a mother defends her children from an axe murderer with a gun, she is, herself, in danger. There's always a chance she misses or that the murderer isn't hit that bad, or he is and in his final moments he buries the axe deep into little jimmy's skull, and/or has enough strength to go for both the mother and her remaining child/children. The method you suggest may be the best way to kill someone without being in danger of death yourself, but it is absolutely probably the most cowardly way to kill. If you're going to do it, do it like a man should (even if you're a woman), with some honour and bravery, on the physical plane.


If you were planning on being some superhero or something then you'll have failed the first test of being a hero by purposely killing someone.

Also I doubt any of us know what the consequences of killing in the astral could be, be it karmic or psychological. It'd probably be best if it stayed that way. Even if nothing at all happened, the last thing we need is people who may actually be real murderers to spot a consequence free method of murder. No, knowledge like that would have to be forgotten until someone (or something) could deal with such a possibility.

btw, thats not preaching, thats just stating the obvious.

when i say completely believe i mean with little to no doubt, there are some other things mentioned in the bible that i believe in, but not with enough integrity to say that i completely believe in them.

i suppose i cant class myself as a christian, maybe as someone with some similar views as christians, but not enough to be classed as one.

I agree, it's a crying shame that people cant let others be at peace with the descisions that they have made, i mean, i doubt if i went onto a christian forum and started talking about astral projection and multiple planes of existance that i'd be welcome for very long. i myself don't mind hearing critisism of my religion (as long as it has SOME structure and isn't just all "OH LOLOL GOD IS 4 TEH gAYz!!!1one") as to question or be questioned is to build upon our understanding of the universe.

To be honest i suppose i could barely consider myself a christian, i believe there is a supreme being, like some of you may, and that maybe jesus was some sort of teacher/ambassador sent to us. thats all i completely believe from the bible at all, although Armageddon and Hell undenyably extremely interesting to me. the religion seems to have been perversified so much for pollitical ends that these two are the only things that i can truly believe in

like i said nothing that cant easily fit in with astral projection and what we have learnt from it.

also christians who say that the bible was written by god are ignorant. the new testament was written by many authors over 500 years. i suppose in a sense if you really must go into details that god wrote the old testament and moses copied it down or whatever, but i don't really know about that.

I myself prefer to see astral projection as a means to understand one's consciousness/soul and how it can work e.t.c. and so does not really have much impact on religious views at all, which are usually more about god(s).

To be honest there's nothing really to say you cant learn from astral projection and not be religious, sure maybe you may have to be more liberal with your religious views, but as a (somewhat liberal) protestant myself I've got no conflict at all with astral projection.

I don't recall any part of the bible explaining how the soul works or that it's possible or not to exit your body before you're dead or anything, but just because it's not mentioned doesn't mean that learning about it is forbidden. Nor does anything I've read about astral projection or anything to do with it mean that there is/are no god(s), I certainly haven't been forced to question my belief in god, and i doubt it'll ever happen. One must understand that a book over 1500 years old that was written for a mostly simple minded population just may have been dumbed down enough for their understanding, into terms and metaphors they may have much more rapidly taken aboard than all the stuff mentioned in this forum. 

I can easily imagine multiple lives then multiple planes of existence e.t.c. and a supreme being who may look after us/guide us all or whatever, even a sort of extremely horrible plane that could be hell. It's not like it's not possible or anything like that, most people just seem to jump to the conclusion that if one small thing doesn't fit in with the religion they hated being taught as children then there's no way that the religion and what we're learning are both true, when it is entirely possible, especially when religions are open to wide interpretation.

If i die and i find there is no god or Jesus then OK, maybe it's a bit of a shame to have kept this belief through my life but fair enough, at least i can then easily shrug it away and fall back to what I've learnt about the universe and my consciousness through astral projection and continue on my path to enlightenment through the astral planes or whatever may be next. I'd certainly not want any astral entity to entertain the idea that god exists to keep me from going insane if there wasn't one, perfectly capable of understanding a universe without one. 

And if I die and it's nothing like what we seem to be finding through astral projection then i can just attribute it to becoming delusional early in my life and eventually believing it to be also true, which would be true, if that is the case.

Like a win-win-win situation...                   ...provided i don't die and then thats it... 

this morning i 'saw' (for lacking of a better word) a video game styled loading screen just before i floated out of my body... 

weird thing is i felt so sure if i didn't at least try to float out before it finished that i'd just fall asleep... 

i used to have a boat load of intense lucid dreams as a child, starting to wonder if they were if they were actually projections, and if the more you project the less you feel vibrations... may explain why i haven't really felt any...

You will probably 'stumble' on it, and then have to work backwards to figure out what actually worked.

Thats what happened to me... around 5 days ago i woke up in bed and caught myself in a great condition to exit, and almost had it. it ended up with me floating upside down with my astral/etheric head still connected to my physical head, hoping to god my brother wouldnt come in the room and (somehow) see me floating upside down.  ever since then i've only ever not felt like this on 1 of those 5 mornings.

now that i've 'stumbled' onto the way i work best at i just need to exit fully... so far the furthest away from my body i've managed is the end of my bed... cant seem to move any further than that...

as for vibrations i've never felt any that i didnt assume was my own heartbeat, never really noticed any at all... unless you can count that intense tingling feeling you get when you're in your etheric body as vibrations... nor have i heared any noises other than something similar to when you hold a sea shell up to your ear.

you'll never exit unless you're relaxed enough to fall asleep, just dont give up... the worst thing you can do is probably give in completely. part of the reason people can project when they want to is because they truly believe that they can. brainwash yourself with the true belief that it's possible and easy when you know how and it will be if you're relaxed enough.

this happened to me when i projected for the first time... no vibrations, just straight out after feeling quite numb and very weird at the same time, kinda how you described it, "like a surge of energy around my body", face felt like it was going through treacle or hair gel too, lol.

unfortunately i haven't done it since.

very well, sounds like i will know the vibrations when i feel them. i suppose that clears that up. thanks for your explanations guys.