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Messages - Lilipad

#1
Quote from: Xanth on April 15, 2014, 11:15:42
Actually yes, I do.  It took me over 10 years to finally figure out how to have conscious projections.  Ten years.   Most people here complain when they can't do it for 10 weeks.  LoL

(this is a genuine question) If its not too personnal, do you think it would have helped you along the way of your 10+ years personal quest to meet some Astral Traveler that would bring a "proof" of the Astral world ? And why ?
(But maybe you did met one ?)
#2
Quote from: Szaxx on April 14, 2014, 22:31:40
I'll give you a link that you can read. It's probably the best way forward for you ad you address the topic head on. Many already there are having success and there's no reason you can't too.
It's an invitation to learn the art and unlike many other sites, there's no charge at all. All you require is determination and an open mind.
I'll offer this to you as mentioned above, you can verify it for yourself. Get into the driving seat, and enjoy the experience of more than a lifetime.

Read the one at the top initially then select as you please.

http://www.unlimitedboundaries.ca/forums/destynee-s-plan-f65.html?sid=81bb268a6f9a10421364515a77354ba8

Thank you for this link. It seems indeed to be a place where people helps each others, and has the spirit I was trying to create :-D
Great !
#3
Quote from: Xanth on April 14, 2014, 21:19:44
I agree with Volgerle, you either have the drive and determination to learn to Project or you don't. 

Good for you if you're capable of such binary behavior  :-)
Have you ever tried something for a long time without succeeding and wonder if you were doing it properly ? Or, since you've never met someone who actually did it (beside what you've read), if the "quest" was valid or not ?
If you did, then you can understand my feeling. I know that I'm not the only one with difficulties, it's just to let you know it's not as black or white as you may suggest (at least for me) !

Quote
The only person who can prove the veracity of projection to you is yourself through direct personal experiences with it.
The sort of evidence you're asking for has been done enough times in this world to "suggest" that Projection is a REAL phenomenon... what most people lack now is the determination to do it and see for themselves.
We can certainly teach you. 

I totally agree that the final proof goes through personal experience. I was just looking for a kind of help that I think I need (and what I thought many others do too): When reading about others experiences is not enought.
This is ok if my suggestion is no good. I wrote it on that forum just for that: receive input from everyone as of the validity of the approach.
I will take the help you can offer, and I'll continue to read this forum and search for the thing that I'm missing.
Thank you all !  :-)
#4
Quote from: Volgerle on April 14, 2014, 19:33:56
Sorry, I don't think someone will be willing to do what you want. Mostly because we are beyond having to prove sth to s.o.  :-(
[...]
Still I wonder: do you REALLY want to learn it? Or are you here for sth else?

I ask because in the 2nd longer paragraph you seem to show that your ONLY interest is getting proof from someone, right? So you are out for "debunking" only? Sorry, I admit maybe I am too suspicious of first-posters who only ask for the veracity of the phenomenon. So excuse please my reply here, I do not mean to come across as rude, but we have already had enough of these "prove-it-to-me-now-people" (usually with their 1st posts like yours, too) here a lot before. It's unnerving.

First, thank you for your answer.
Second, I'm sorry if I've arosed supsicious here or offended anyone. This was not my intention. I did not meant that I believe that AP is not real. I am an open sceptic and part of me believe, another part have a doubt. I've never have an AP experience before, and because I'm used to the "scientific method", I have some faith on a theory (hat AP is real, and a larger reality do exist) and I'm looking for evidence that what I believe is true or not.
In fact, I'm just looking for my own truth, and I believed some people may have the same open scepticism approach I do (most people with a deep scientific background). This is why I suggested that people could help each others, and not just myself (because I feel like I'm not the only one with this issue). I'm glad if I'm the only one, though :-)

You definitly don't need to prove that AP is real to anyone. How can I say that, this not an ego issue, and I'm sure you're great people. It was just an attempt to solve what I thought was a commun issue.

Quote
Also, the main problem for not achieving AP/OBE you state is wrong. For newbies it is NOT that people do not believe in it "being real". They already KNOW that there is a larger (spiritual) reality out there waiting to be explored and we are more than our physical bodies. They are farther than you think. There are exceptions to the rule of course.

Actually there are other problems more prevalent that keep newbies from successful OBEs, a lot have to do with fear issues, some with wrong techniques and strategies, I believe that a bit of talent or a disposition for it is also a factor (although some contend this), etc.

I can only talk for myself, but I've read few books about AP/OBE, saw videos, and I immersed myself into a lot of metaphysic questions, read validations from scientifics and other sources ... I'm convinced of the larger reality, though, even though I've been trying for few years now to do AP, I've not suceeded yet. Maybe I'm no good at it ! Maybe I'm doing the wrong things ! Maybe I just need to continue my effort and something will unlock itself !
I was just trying to find another way here ! (And in the mean time, find a solution for others like me)

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Yes, there are of course validations possible, for the regular APer who is no longer out for them they still happen just "incidently". But you can also plan it of course, e.g. the card-look-up-test, which many here have done with success, including me. You put a card from a stack on a shelf without looking at it and then look it up in AP state in your room.

This is assuming I'm already successfully doing AP in order to prove it to myself. I'm not that far !

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I recommend you read the link in my signature to see a vast collection of so-called 'anecdotal evidence' but also some scientific experiments, here it is again: http://da-lai.lima-city.de/OBE/index.html
Last not least, the best way to get proof is to prove it you yourself and learn the arts for that. This should be motivation enough. So, are you ready for it?  8-)

I've already read a lot of validation experiments, but reading is not believing what you're reading is true. As you say, you have to build your own conviction and you can not just absorb what someone else did !

Anyway. Thank you for your input :-) and sorry If I did offended you or anyone else on this forum !
#5
  As AP beginners, we are burden with 2 big issues: We don't know to do AP (even though we could have read a lot about it, it's not something we felt within), and we still doubt that we could do AP, either because we doubt the reality of AP phenomenon, or because we doubt that we, as individual, are capable to do the same as others (both legitimate doubts since you've never experienced for yourself).
  Unfortunately, it seems that the belief that we are indeed capable of AP is part of the formula to do AP, thus, hardening the task of beginners.

  My idea is the following: Advanced astral travelers can help beginners to build a bigger faith and commitment to AP by providing a strong and personal proof of the authenticity of the phenomenon.
  How can we give a definite proof (without doing AP ourself)? My idea so far is to create a place where beginner can post "challenges" that astral travelers can accept as exercises or games. The challenge could be as simple as writing down something on a street (with chalk or something alike), so that only the beginner knows what has been written, and the advanced traveler quickly goes to the specified address (easy with the astral body) and read the text, then report it to the beginner. By doing so, the beginner can't say it is not working. Gifted with this direct and personal proof of a successful AP, the beginner will have one lock removed for his/her progress as now he/she can have a strong faith in AP, and just need to work on his/her own self-confidence.
  (I did not yet discussed the details of the "challenges"/"games" on purpose, so that we examin the idea first)

  What do you think of this idea? Something to done/tried?
  Maybe someone already did?
  If it does make sense, I'll be looking for a pool of advanced travelers to start the project. Anyone interested?