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Hello Friends

So i was asleep today, and when i woke up, i decided (for the first time) to try to project. I found it was very easy to get to the vibration point. In fact, i was so relaxed, that i was able to open my eyes and shift myself in the bed, and still have some vibrations going.  My first attempt failed as i slipped into a lucid dream of some first person shooter game(dont ask), I stopped the dream and then tried again.

This time i was able to get to the borderline. I felt my arms begin to float, however just like in everytime before, i feel like this lump of excitement, like adrenaline, that kills it.

I dont know how to stop this emotion, if i can stay passive, i know i can project. This feeling also makes it hard to breath, so in trying to catch my breath i lose concentration

Any Tips?

--Amir

Hello:

Most of this is from a previous post of mine. Im re-pasting it because its a coninuation of that discussion:


So now im finally at the stage where i can attain the vibrations from trying to project within about 5 - 10 mins. I have Projected once under my will. Even though i didnt see anything, the accual exit was ,tactilly, detailed. I learned somethings that i would like to share.

One, when the vibrations got intense, and i started to here the Whine in my ears, I used to try, at that point, to mentally force myself out. That does not work.


That night what happened was that i was Very tired and the vibrations came on their own. I didnt want to try to project, as i was very tired and sleepy. So I just ignored them and tried to sleep.
That was the trigger.

Once I 'let go' i Felt the whine in my ears get so loud, that i was kinda startled. But at that point i had already started sepreating.

The sensation of sepreating, is important, as many people try to focus on this.

While in the trance state, your body becomes numb. Imagine that while in this numb state, someone turns the gravity off in your room. One by one your limbs and body float in this absence.

Thats the sensation. In fact the first thing that happened was my arm sepreated. I first thought "why am i holding my arm up" i even slighty opened my eyes to see that my arm was up but then i noticed that it was white...
Then i realize how and why this was happening..so i got excited. I then tried to 'sleep' some more and more parts started to float. then i started to see the room thru my eyelids...everthing has a weird glow. I also later noted that the sight was not from the preception of my eyes, but as if i was seeing from the other side of the bed, where my feet were.

then i finaalt felt my legs detach and then my torso and everything. I remeber twisting around...like a wind was slowing pushing me out of the bed.

Then i dont remember after that. I have vague memories of lush forest and mountainous beauty.

The only ..Only hurdle for me left..is that my breathing slows to a point where i think im gonna choke.

Its like i relax to the point where my diaphram is lethargic.

Any input would be appreciated.
_____________________________________________________________


So I think i have figured out why the Breathing problem occurs. If you notice somone sleeping, you will see that they breath slower than normal. I think when I try to going into a full trance, my body sleeps , but my mind think it should be awake. So the alarms go off, saying " your breathing is too slow".

Im thinking some hypnosis affirmation my help here.

What do you guys think?

--ICWiz

Hmm,

So i read in one of the sucess stories to RB, that the trick is that you are supposed to be aware of your astral double when trying to project.
Anyone have any exersizes that will help you do this?

--ICWiz

Hi all,

So now im finally at the stage where i can attain the vibrations from trying to project within about 5 - 10 mins. I have Projected once under my will. Even though i didnt see anything, the accual exit was ,tactilly, detailed. I learned somethings that i would like to share.

One, when the vibrations got intense, and i started to here the Whine in my ears, I used to try, at that point, to mentally force myself out. That does not work.


That night what happened was that i was Very tired and the vibrations came on their own. I didnt want to try to project, as i was very tired and sleepy. So I just ignored them and tried to sleep.
That was the trigger. []

Once I 'let go' i Felt the whine in my ears get so load, that i was kinda startled. But at that point i had already started sepreating.

The sensation of sepreating, is important, as many people try to focus on this.

While in the trance state, your body becomes numb. Imagine that while in this numb state, someone turns the gravity off in your room. One by one your limbs and body float in this absence.

Thats the sensation. In fact the first thing that happened was my arm sepreated. I first thought "why am i holding my arm up" i even slighty opened my eyes to see that my arm was up but then i noticed that it was white...
Then i realize how and why this was happening..so i got excited. I then tried to 'sleep' some more and more parts started to float. then i started to see the room thru my eyelids...everthing has a weird glow. I also later noted that the sight was not from the preception of my eyes, but as if i was seeing from the other side of the bed, where my feet were.

then i finaalt felt my legs detach and then my torso and everything. I remeber twisting around...like a wind was slowing pushing me out of the bed.

Then i dont remember after that. I have vague memories of lush forest and mountainous beauty.

The only ..Only hurdle for me left..is that my breathing slows to a point where i think im gonna choke.

Its like i relax to the point where my diaphram is lethargic.

Any input would be appreciated.

--ICWiz

Well, how far are you? Can you relax, go into a trace?.

--Amir

Some say that its your physical body reacting to the sudden drop of your astral double.

--Amir

Thanks guys, i will try and see.

--Amir

Hypris:

Im not sure of your belief system, but the only time I have heard of this level of an attack is a Jinn(check my post in the World Religions on this).

Spirits of deceased people are not strong enough for this. Check to see if she has done something in the past month, anything out of place. Retriving an artifact, going to an abandoned place.She might have ticked of a jinn. Its not unheard of, i have seen it happen.

Its also possible that she walked into a place that was "gaurded" by black majik.

Use your hypnosis to regress her to the point when all this started, and go from there.

--Amir

Hmm.

Has anyone tried the Ganzfeld effect? This might help in getting a feel for relaxed eyes. I have tried it, its very soothing

--ICWiz

Dear Friend,

I have been part of the Naqshbandi Order for a few years now.

Sufism is Islam, and Islam is Sufism. There is not difference between the two. The idea that Sufism is a more mystical form of Islam isn't true. A Sufi, is simply a very pious Muslim.

Nowadays, some Muslim sects will reject this, however, the ideology of Sufism is in the Quran and hadith.

The prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) spoke of the state of Isaan, or excellence. This is the state in which a person forgets and ignores everyone but Allah. You lose yourself in his love. This is what all Sufi orders strive to achieve. All of the 40 Sufi ways are correct. They are just different ways of getting to the same goal. (this does not include the Weed smoking Sufis[]).

Go to www.the-heart.net for more information.


"If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

Isa (Jesus).

Dear Friends,

I will try to touch on some of the topics brought up.

First the one that i didn't see answered, was the question that how is it that God is All merciful and compassionate, yet the Quran speaks of punishment from God for those who don't believe.

The Islamic ideology is that we humans have been created for divine service. We are God's servant, his deputies on this world. He loves us more then we can possibly imagine.

However, just like a father who love his children, God does not want us to go astray. These punishments are like slaps on the wrist, to discipline us back to the way.

Islam is also like a doorway. There is So much more than what you see in the Quran. The Quran is like a window to the infinite. It has all knowledge in there, you just have to be at a certain levels to understand the different wisdoms. This is what Sufism is.

www.the-heart.net has more information on these topics.

Islam does believe in the astral, and in dimensions. All humans are said to have a Hamazd, or partner. This is similar to the idea of an astral double. It is said that through discipline and worship, one can gain control of his or her hamzad, and then have it do things (like project).

Jinns are real in Islam. They are beings created of smokeless fire (which by todays science, is Plasma). They are much much stronger than humans, also they can exist in our world and 'theirs' reality ( I believe this to be the astral worlds).

Jinns are not just a concept in islam.The prophet Solomon was giving the right of control over them. Solomon's temple in Jerusalem is said to have been built by jinns. There are many more accounts of them interacting with humans.  There are sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) where he has converted jinns to Islam.

I personally know a Sufi mystic who has knowledge of jinns, Bad jinns have been known to possess humans. Most of the 'spirit' attacks that i have read about on this site are, according to Islamic belief, jinns. Real spirits, or souls rarely hurt people. The mystic knew how to remove them from a persons body, and he could even make them talk through the person and have them describe why they have possessed them. I have seen this done with my own eyes. Quite the experience.

Any more questions.[8D]

--ICWiz

Dear Friends.

Being a Muslim and born in the USA, I thought I might try to clear things up a bit.

There are a lot of things that appear wrong with Islam today. This is due to the fact that Muslims are not adhering to the original teachings. Nowadays, tyrants in these countries have hijacked the religion and turned it into a extreme, fanatical, perverse version of the original.

There is a lot that went into this, So much so, that I will not be able to begin to explain it. I will provide links for those interested.

In a nutshell however, a new movement that started to gather wind in the 1800's and recently in the 1970's is the wahabi movement.
The major flaw, that has caused many problems, in this school of thought, it that they believe that everything in the Quran and hadith is understandable by all people, regardless of educational and intellectual levels.  This was not the way of the past.

Just like Doctors understand the medical sciences better then someone who isn't a doctor, In the past, scholars would study the quran and use wisdom to understand it. They would then explain it to those who did not have the religious knowledge.

For example. There are some rules in the quran that people find bad and evil. These verses are supposed to be taken in context with other passages. People that are unaware of this end up taking it word for word and they end up misreading.

This ideology has lead to the extremist movements and the Terrorist issue of today.

If you would like to learn more, I HIGHLY recommend that you go to this link:

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/bin/site/wrappers/isca_inside.asp?pane_2=content-extremism

This site is very well done. It has all the information you will need to understand what has and is happening in Islam.

Yes. That , in my optinon is the key. And you have to have a certain mental disipline to let go of the body and still remain focused on the mind.

--ICWiz

I think its a matter of losing awarness for a minute or two. One you let go, your mind awarness will be with the astral body and you wont feel like suffocating. I noticed that when i was able to project that one time, i didnt have the breathing problem. In fact, i didnt notice breathing.

Does anyone have any ideas on how to 'switch' your mind to the astral double?

--ICWiz

Apperently, you can induce sleep paralysis, if you sleep face up:


Sleeping position: It has been long suspected, and frequently reported, that lying in the supine (face-up) position seems to be associated with sleep paralysis. In our own work we have found that lying in the supine position is five times more likely during sleep paralysis that it is during normal sleep. If one is trying to avoid sleep paralysis then avoiding the supine position is strongly advised. For people who normally sleep in this position changing may prove difficult. However, sleeping on one's back appears to be relative rarely in our international samples, with only 10%-15% of people reporting that they normally sleep in this position. Since, about 60% of sleep paralysis episodes are reported to occur in the supine position obviously many people who are experiencing sleep paralysis are in, for them, an unusual position. The effect of sleeping position is quite evident in the following  figure. The supine position is among the least frequent positions during normal sleep whereas it is clearly the most common position. It is also evident, however, that sleep paralysis may occur in any position for some people (Labeled 'Variable' in the Figure). There are also a few people who appear to have sleep paralysis preferentially in on of the other positions. Nonetheless, a number of respondents, after following our suggestion to try to avoid sleeping in the supine position, have indicated that sleep paralysis episodes have declined or ceased

--ICWiz

Here is my 2 cents.


Sleep paralysis is the state In between the waking and the Mind split. If you are in SP and you want to project, all you have to do is relax even more, you will feel your feeling come back, BUT it will not be your real body. It will be your astral body comming into awarness.

I still have the touble of trying to create the mind split before i become aware of my sleep state. I have come to the realization that the "Breathing problems" some people have are caused by the fact that they are falling sleep and are aware of the slowed breathing induced by sleep.(i will post more as i come accross information)

--ICWiz

wow, I had a similar experience. I awoke halfway into a exit, to find my right arm in the air as if i was holding it up.

I relaxed even more and this made me exit completely. I dont really remember the accual projection

--ICWiz

Hello all,

Thank you for sharing your insights into the phenomenon. These past few days i have tried to pay more attention to the breathing. I have found these points:

1) The breathing issue is being cause by the natural proccess in which your breathing slows when sleeping.

2) The problem isnt that you are breathing slower..it is the fact that you are aware of it.

The mistake I am doing is that im still thinking within my physical self. I have to find a way to make my mind switch over to the astral. When this happens, any movement i do will be translated to the astral double, not my physical self.

Anyone have thoughts or ideas on this?

--ICWiz

hmm,

Thanks for the insight. I will try this tonight, and i'll let you know what happens


--ICWiz

Its possible your brain genreated a bit to much DMT. []

--ICWiz

ame,

All of what you said is true. Islam does not allow blind faith.

Also on a side note...Islam does have a explaination for the big bang theory, and a possible theory for the substance of the universe.

It says that in the begining there was a substance like water. Then God with his might created the universe with the foam and he froze the clear into his throne. ( Read the Zero-point field theory [] )

Anyway...I'm happy to see that there are people that are open minded in the world.[^]

quote:


To help me understand further, could you please give me your definition of, "Islamic Fundamentalist" because that's a side of the argument I never fully understood. So your input would be gratefully received.

An Islamic fundamentalist is a Person who follows a warped and distorted version of Islam. Instead of reading and trying to understand the whole religion and its books (the holy Quran and the Hadith) they take bits and pieces from it and come to their own conclusions.

You see, in the Quran and the Hadith, There are many guidelines for living as a just, responsible human being. As a result there are many different "scenarios" that it teaches about.

The main idea of the fundamentalist is that they take the rules of war and distort them. For example, there is a rule that says "Do not allow anyone to oppress you, if they do, you must declare a jihad against them". This rule however, has many explanations, which you also have to read to understand what it means. The Fundamentalist take this for its literal value.

The US does not oppress. In America, I can pray anywhere as long as I'm not in someone else's way. So there is no oppression, thus, we cannot declare jihad. Now in Israel, there is a right of jihad, BUT the jihad MUST be fought by those oppressed. So I can't just fly over there and fight. It's not my fight. When a bad time comes on a group of people, it is beloved that God is testing them. So...I cant help them cheat, now can I?

However, the act of suicide bombing is forbidden. It's no different then regular suicide. The actual way to fight is face to face. If you can't fight them because they are too strong, then you know what path god has laid out for you.

There was once an Islamic Military General (I forgot his name). His goal in life was to die in battle, as a Shahid (what is wrongfully called a martyr). Even though he fought many countless battles and came within inches of his death, he never did die in battle. He ended up dieing an old man.

The Concept of a Shahid is not that you simply die in battle. It's when you die while trying to fulfill a jihad. Jihad, litrearly, means "a struggle". In Islam it means a struggle for god. For example a Sufi has to declare a jihad on the badness in his heart before he can be close to god.

A sick person trying his or her hardest to live is also fighting a Jihad; life is a gift god gives you, to fight for it is to fight for god. And if they end up succumbing to the illness and dying, they are in fact shahid.

There is a reason god made the rule for shahid . If you were a devout Muslim and One night you messed up and did something bad. Now you will have to pray and beg forgiveness. But let's say at the same time something happened and you had to fight for your fellow Muslims survival from some other evil. But your have a big dilemma, If you die, you might end up with a bad record and you will end up in hell. So what would you do, Not fight, of course. But then who would help the people.

Well god said, not to worry, you will automatically be sent to heaven if you die in a jihad, regardless of your record. You see, it's like something to give you piece of mind, so you don't loose sight of the greater good.

This is the brief explanation of these concepts. I didn't want to bore you will all the details. They are other conditions that are to be considered.

But what it boils down to, it that an Islamic fundamentalist is not Islamic[!]. They are all heavy sinners and will have to answer to their creator.

quote:


You then mention about the act of acquiring spiritual knowledge is a form of worship. My question is how this "act of acquiring" is brought about? Are followers (if that is the right term) taught to simply read from books, or are they encouraged to look within themselves for answers? Or maybe it is a mixture of both.

Its both, learning god's book and the teachings of the prophet are all considered acts of acquiring knowledge. Also, looking within yourself to see what kind of person you are and trying to raise yourself to a better person is also considered a spiritual act. There are a lot of ways to do this.

quote:


Forgive me if my questions sound simplistic.

Not a problem, hope this make things a little clearer. If not just let me know []

--ICWiz

quote:Originally posted by Adrian

Greetings ICWiz,

Thank you for that perspective.

I do not profess to be familiar with Islam or the Koran, but I have long since suspected that governments and other factions are trying to manipulate the masses, and run their countries using religion. Christianity is no exception I hasten to add - it is all about making use of the feelings and insecurity of "God fearing" people, whether it is based on the word of Jesus and the christian God or Mohammed and Allah, both of which have been seriously distorted over the centuries.  Jesus came to teach Spirituality to mankind in terms that people could grasp, and Mohammed probably did as well.

I believe the Islamic fundamentalists use the interpreted commandment of destroying the "infidel", and which is interpreted as any country that can loosely be claimed to be an enemy of Islam - the USA being the number one candidate. It is on this basis that the fundamentalists call for the support of the people in the name of Allah to rise up in Jihad.

If the people of Iraq an other countries new the truth about their religion, they would probably find the strength to rise up against the real infidel - the fundamentalists who make their lives a misery.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Its not fearing god like you fear a snake , as something to hurt you. Its more like the fear a child had to a parent of the pushiment they would get if they upset them.

God loves all

And you are very right, Islamic fundamentalist are the real enemy. But fighting them isnt the answer either, it knowledge. The act of aquiring spritual knowledge in itself is a form of worship in islam.

Just by doing that the people of those countries would prevent people like bin laden from getting into the minds of the populus.

I, being a devout and (I pray) a true muslim, try to teach the true word to all, Its my Jihad on the problems of the world

--ICWiz

Hmm..that sounds more like sleep apnea. When i get the "Breathing problem" , its like at the last stages of the deep trance, my breathing becomes harder to do, because i have to keep concentrating on it

Ok...I think im begining to understand why we are getting this breathing problem. We are using it to maintain focus. RB said that we need to keep a clear mind.
I belive , just using that after you are in a trace, will let you fall into an obe without the breathing problem. i will try it tonight

--ICWiz