Messages

In my original post, what I meant by "slowing down" time in an LD or on the Astral, is different from the following: when I finished watching a good movie, "time flew by so fast" that I subjectively feel that it only lasted for 20 mins, although the movie was actually 2 hours long.

Instead it is like performing an action on the Astral which would actually take a lot of time (for instance, watching all Star wars episodes in one go (without leaving out a single scene)), while my physical body only spends 20 mins in the bed which I know by checking the clock before and after the projection (or sleep).   

Does anyone know some suggestions to the questions in my original post, if we understand the "slowing down" of time in this latter sense?

Hi

I am interested in whether it is possible to deliberately slow down (or quicken) "time" during AP. What I mean by "slowing down" time is that, for instance, one spends a few hours exploring the Astral while his physical body only sleeps for 20 mins. I know some techniques by which it is possible to slow down time during an LD (for instance, looking at a analog clock and imagine it slow down then stop), but an Astral projection is not (entirely) same as an LD. Since the Astral environment is less influenced by one's own thoughts than one's own dream environment, I am not convinced that the same techniques, used to slow down time in a dream, work just as effectively during an AP.

Some techniques to slow down time in LD besides the above mentioned: intend to stop "real time" (can also say it out loud); imagine yourself being in the dream for ours;

Is it possible to slow down time on the Astral just as in an LD?
Does anyone happen to know some methods which are used specifically to slow down time on the AP?
Alternatively, is there a "place" (or state or dimension) on the Astral where time flows slower? (where one can spend ours, while the physical body only sleeps for minutes). If there is, how can one locate it?
((I know that some people think that there are no actual "places" on the Astral, but it was easier to express myself this way))

Many thanks for the suggestions,   

Hi

I have a question concerning later (more deeper) stages of a kind of Buddhist meditation (the mindfulness of breath meditation). Could anyone, who is practised in this form of meditation, give me some suggestions?

As I know, in the early stages of the practice (where the ancient Buddhist text on meditation, the Anapana Sutta says "Breathing in long breath, one knows: 'I breathe in a long breath'..."), one can do the following: while focusing on 'holding the mind constantly on the breath', the meditator should pay a (mild) attention to certain characteristics of the breath (the length of each in/out-breath, whether the breath is heavy or light, its beginning/end, or the pause between the breath). By observing these characteristics, the attention is established more easily on the breathing.

However, as I know it, later on (in deeper states), the observance of these characteristics should be better dropped, and only the simple act of ,,holding the mind constantly on the breath" remains. My question refers to this stage:

1,Is this the stage, when the Anapana Sutta says: ,, ...conscious of the whole (breath) body, I shall breathe in – the meditator trains himself-conscious of the whole (breath) body I breathe out..."?

2,When should I drop focusing on the above mentioned characteristics (the length of each in/out-breath, whether the breath is heavy or light, its beginning/end, or the pause between the breaths)? If this happens automatically, then its all fine. However, in case this does not happen by itself, when should I stop focusing on them?:
2/a,Should I drop them when I feel that my attention is well-established on the breath, and such 'tools' are no longer necessary?
2/b,Or should I stop focusing on them only when I feel that, since I has reached a more subtle mental state, the act of observing them has become too 'intrusive'(or too coarse), and it disrupts the stillness of my mind?

3,When reaching later (more deeper) stages, should I stop deliberately paying attention to all above mentioned characteristics of the breath? Or only the observance of the 'duration of the breath' should be dropped (and the observance of the others retained)?

Many Thanks for the help.

Gil-gilad, this is the section I was speaking of. There is no rundown being performed here.

Yes you are right, its not about a  'rundown' exercise.
As Contenteo also says, in this state, one already 'inside' oneself (as he describes it in step 1,2). I believe, this state is something close to F12. Whereas, in my post, I referred to the more initial stage of 'noticing' exercise, while both your mind and body still are reasonably 'awake'. In this state, I tend to experience random simple light patterns, which sometimes become more blurry.

In addition, Contenteo's method still involves some form of creative/active visualization. I believe, when he says 'loosing focus', he means that he momentarily ceases/snaps out of this visualization; and 'refocusing' means that he returns to his visualized scene. In contrast, in noticing, I just simply observe the automatically appearing images. While this happens, sometimes, I began to perceive these images/light patterns less clearly (its not the same as the 'loosing of focus' in Contenteo's post). When this happens, I either 'refocus' (with a gentle effort, try to see them more clearly again), or do not react and continue observing that way. The question in my prev posts was that whether my 'handling of this occasional 'blurriness' (of vision) is suitable for the 'noticing' exercise or not. 
(I believe the 'readjusting of  focus' (within the above mentioned circumstances) hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much. In addition, I only do this readjusting rarely, and in most cases I choose not to react to this 'blurring of vision')

As I see it, Contenteo's post describes a kind of 'rundown' method for phasing. In contrast, I am practicing 'noticing', where one simply observes the naturally emerging light patterns. I am not sure, if the 'loosing of focus' or 'blurring of vision' should be handled in a similar manner in both of the aforementioned methods.

If you read Contenteo's post here, he talks about focusing, then losing that focus as his actual technique.

I believe, what he means under 'loosing focus' is when one momentarily ceases to visualize/hold out the created image/scene of the 'rundown' scenario. Whereas, concerning 'noticing', its just that I began to perceive the naturally occurring images/light patterns less clearly than usual. I perfectly agree with the fact that, concerning 'rundown', when 'loosing focus', one needs to return to the imagined scenario. However, I am not entirely sure how to deal with the aforementioned 'blurriness' of vision when doing the 'noticing' exercise.

That is what the question in my prev posts referred to:

When my vision becomes less clear, Is it still all right (or does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states) if I gently readjust my focus from time to time? (I only do this rarely, and often, when my vision goes blurry, I jut leave it like that, and continue that way)?
(I believe this 'readjusting of  focus' hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much)

I am terrible with any exercise requiring some form of visualization. For instance, I have tried the 'rundown' method in 'phasing' (where one creates a imaginary scene while drifting towards the sleep state). However, I have found this 'creative' visualization exceedingly difficult, and I gave up after a while.

That's why, when I (try) to 'phase', I usually choose the 'noticing' method, where I simply close my eyes and observe the blackness in front. I would rather stick with this method, and the only thing which worries me concerning the act of 'noticing' is if I can occasionally (gently) readjust my focus.

Is it still all right (or does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states) if I gently readjust my focus from time to time (I only do it rarely)?
(I believe this 'readjusting of  focus' hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much)

"That's correct.  Just allow to happen whatever happens.  No need to refocus... it's part of learning to allow everything to be as it is."

Is it still all right (or does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states) if I gently readjust my focus from time to time (I only do it rarely)?
(I believe this 'readjusting of  focus' hinders the practice only when one does it too frequently or deliberately forces it too much)

I would rather stick with doing this way, since it feels more natural. Sometimes, when my vision goes blurry, I just feel 'compelled' to readjust it. I feel an intention to see the 'images' more clearly, then I gently readjust my focus. I only do this rarely and I do not force it. In addition, this 'readjusting' is more like a 'semi-automatic' process. I hope this does not prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states.

I have found that, if I readjust my focus too often (maybe in every 2 mins), it prevents me from reaching 'deeper' states. Therefore, I have decided not to readjust my focus each and every time when I feel that my perception of the images (behind my closed eyes) is less clear than usual.

In the beginning, I close my eyes and apply only a minimal effort to see what's in front of me. I do not try to force myself to see these images as clearly as possible, even if this sometimes means that I can hardly see what's in front of my closed eyes. (this is due of the fact that the clarity of my perception (of the images) can vary greatly)

During the practice, I sometimes feel that I have begun to perceive the images less clearly than before (or I perceive them less clearly than usual). When this happens, I do either of the following:

1, When I feel that my vision has become 'blurrier' than usual, I do not react to it and continue doing the exercise that way. This entails that, sometimes, for longer periods, I can hardly see what's going on in front of my closed eyes.

2, I try to deliberately, but gently readjust my focus. If this minimal effort is not enough to see the images clearly again, I just 'leave it like that' and continue observing the 'screen' in front of my closed eyes. However, I try to limit the number of these 'readjustments' as much as possible (maybe no more than once in every 10 mins), since I have found that, if I do it too often, it can prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states.

Can anyone tell me if the above mentioned method is appropriate for 'noticing' exercise?
((I know that I could use a 'trial an error' method to decide if the above technique works. However, I can not test it myself, since I am unable to reach 'deeper' states (or carry out a successful phasing), which could 'validate' this method.))

Thanks

"Have you been able to reach a mind awake/body asleep (F10) stage easily yet?"

Not really. I used to be able to reach a stage, where I experienced some hypnagogic imagery. However, I could not maintain it longer, and usually either fallen asleep completely or ended up in a dream scene (while remaining fairly lucid). I don't like Lucid dreams, since I always wake up from them quickly, no matter what technique I use to prevent the awakening. Therefore, I decided to remain more conscious throughout my phasing, and try not to drift into sleep so easily. Since then, I have only experienced mild meditative states (accompanied by certain energetic sensations or slight body numbness), but I have not been able to consciously reach F10. (mind awake/body asleep)

Thanks for the advice.

I was worried that this regular (sometimes, can happen in every 2-3 mins) 'readjusting' of my focus (even if I do it gently and naturally) might prevent me from reaching 'deeper' states. (I can not test it myself, since I am unable to reach 'deeper' states (or carry out a successful phasing), which could 'validate' this method.)

Is it all right to regularly 'readjust' my focus (even if, there are times when I do it in every 2-3 mins), whenever my vision goes blurry or I feel that I do not perceive them clear enough?

((This 'readjusting' means that I just try to see whats in front of my closed eyes a bit more clearly. If this 'intention' does not  'readjusts' my focus automatically, I do not force it too much. In addition, I only do it, when I feel that I perceive the images less clearly than usual. Otherwise, I just simply observe them in a natural manner, and apply only a minimal effort to see whats in front of my closed eyes. In other words, I do not try to force myself to see these images as clearly as possible.))

Sometimes, my vision goes blurrier not because that my mind wanders or I begin falling asleep. I just simply begin to perceive the imagery behind my closed eyes less clearly than before (I can still perceive them to a certain degree), while my mind remains equally concentrated on the images (as if they were the object of my meditation).

When this happens, can I deliberately (but gently) 'readjust' my focus or 'leave it like that' (not readjusting my focus)?

I believe either 'readjusting' focus or not is a valid way of doing the practice. As for me, in most cases, (due the mild curiosity, with which I observe the images) I tend to opt for the readjustment (this feels more natural). However, sometimes, when my vision goes blurrier than before, I jut 'leave it like that' and continue observing that way. 

Thanks for the help.

Hi

I would like to ask a question concerning Frank's noticing exercise.
During the exercise, with closed eyes one should passively observe the 'darkness' in front. While doing so, sometimes my vision goes a bit blurry. (I perceive the images/ light patterns less clearly than before). When this happens, in most cases, I do not bother about it. After a short time, due to the fact that I observe these images with mild curiosity, my vision becomes clearer automatically. 

However, sometimes, I deliberately 'readjust' my focus (this time its not like the automatic process mentioned above). I am doing this 'readjustment' with minimal effort, and I do not focus directly on the images. This feels natural to me and this readjustment is more like a semi-automatic process, since the mild curiosity, with which I observe the images, 'prompt' me to readjust my focus so as to see them more clearly. 

Can anyone tell me? Is it all right if I do the 'noticing' exercise this way? (even if the 'readjustment' mentioned above can happen several times during my session)
Thanks for the help   

"On a side note, your name is familiar. Weren't you the person on the TMI forum who won the raffle draw for the free Gateway Voyage program?"

No, I am affraid it was not me.

Hi. I have question concerning noticing exercise.

During noticing, I close my eyes and observe the blackness in front of me. After a while, I begin to see images (light patterns, dots,...). However, while staring at the blackness for a while, my vision tends to become blurry (I begin to preceive the images less clearly). Sometimes, this state only lasts for a few seconds, sometimes  my vision remains 'blurry' for longer periods. Usually, this happens several times during my exercise.

Is it all right, if I let my vision remain blurry (even if it means that I can hardly preceive the images) for longer periods? Or should I try to deliberately 'retune' my focus (and try to see the images clearly), whenerver my vision starts to become blurry?

(when I say 'try to retune my focus', I do not mean to focus on the images themselves. It is more like not letting my vision go 'unfocused/blurry' while staring at the blacness)

I think, when my vision goes blurry, I should let it happen, and continiue obseving the images this way. However, occasionally, I prefer to 'retune' my focus, because it irritates me when I can hardly tell whats going on behind my closed eyelids. I only do this rarely (2-3 times in an hour), since this 'retuning of focus' causes some unwanted awareness of my physical eyes.

Thanks for the help

Thanks for the replies.
I have one more question.

During noticing, I begin by choosing a spot (within the blackness) to hold my gaze at. After a while I tend to become unfocused (which is obviously normal if you gaze at something for long enough). I usually let this happen and stay unfocused for longer periods, and simply observe the 'blackness' in this way. I think this is the right way of doing it, since, otherwise the regular 'retuning' of my focus might prevent me from reaching a proper meditative state.   

During noticing, is it all right to remain unfocused for longer periods?

   

HI

I have a question concerning Frank's 'noticing' exercise.
In brief, during noticing you stare into the blackness in front of your closed eyes, and passively observe/notice whatever appears there.

In Xanth's phasing method (http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/11/25/xanths-phasing-method/) I have read the following:

In the begining, you should choose a spot (within the blackness) where you 'fixate' your gaze, and 'notice' the images with your peripheral vision. However, elsewhere I have read that that 'choosing such a spot' is not necessary, and simply staring into the blackness is fine.   

Is it necessary to choose such a spot/direction for your gaze during noticing, or simply staring into the blackness is enough?
I think either option is fine (In other words, it doesn't matter wheter you choose a spot/direction for your gaze or not), but I am not sure. Thanks in advance

Thanks for the replies

Yes I know that you should not focus on the images you might see and you should not move your eyes either. What I would like to ask is the following:
In Xanth's phasing method I have read the following(http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2010/11/25/xanths-phasing-method/):

In the beginning of the noticing exercise, you close your eyes and choose a comfortable spot where you 'fixate' your gaze .You hold your focus here, and when an image appears
you simply acknowledge it (do not move your focus to the image), just like in the 'train analogy' above. My question reffered to this point of focus which you choose in the beginning.
Since your field of view is 3D, when choosing this spot, you should decide both the distance and the direction. For me, staring in the middle of my field of vision is the most comfortable. However, I am not sure about the right distance. I was reffering to this spot and its correct distance in my original post:

Should I choose a spot directly in front of me (a few centimeters away)?
Or should I choose one farther away (a feet or more)?
Where can I observe the comming images better? Or are these 'light patterns' appear at a distance where I initially begin to focus?

Thanks for your suggestions

During 'noticing' (a 'phasing' method), you observe the blacness in fornt of your closed eyes, while you try to hold your attention ('notice') any kinds of 'light activity' taking place there.

Does anyone happen to know where (to what distance) one should adjust the focus of the eyes in order to be able to see these 'light patterns/light activity' clearly?

Should I hold my focus directly in front of me (a few centimeters away)?
Or should I hold my focus farther away (a feet or more)?
Or is it an automatical process? (The eyes adjust themselves automaticly to the distance where these 'light patterns' appear/the 'light patterns' appear at a distance where I initially begin to focus)

I find it very difficult to preceive whats going on behind my closed eyes and I thought that the reason might be the fact that I hold my focus at the wrong distance.

Thanks for answering

Thanks for the quick reply

If I understand it correctly, It doesn't matter where I hold my gaze. I just have to 'stare' into the darkness and try to be aware of any changes or differences in it.

During the 'noticing' exercise, I close my eyes and focus on the blackness in front.
While looking at the blackness in front of closed eyes, where should I hold my gaze? I usualy keep my focus in the middle of my field of vision. However, I am not sure about the distance. There are several options:
1, Should I keep my focus at a point 1-2 feet away or only a few centimeters away?
3, Should I try to keep my focus right in front of my eyes, where my eyelids are?

I am asking this because during the 'noticing' exercise I either do not see anything behind my closed eyelids or find it difficult to ascertain the 'place'/'distance' where images appear (light patterns, dots, shapes (I am not talking about the more 'dreamlike' hipnagogic images)).
I usualy rub my closed eyes which causes some 'light activity' and try to remember where this activity takes place and keep my focus at that distance during the 'noticing'. This distance is quite close to my physical eyes. Is it all right to keep my focus here?

Does anyone have some suggestions?
Thanks

Hi

I have one question regarding the noticing exercise (a phasing method)

During noticing, I observe the blackness in front of closed eyes. While doing so, I try to be aware (notice) any irregualities (paches of light, dots,...) or changes taking place behind my closed eyes. This activity is neccesary to keep the mind awake while your body falls asleep.

There are 2 ways to obseve the blackness:

1, You hold your gaze on a particular area (a few feet before you), and notice the irregularities with your peripheral vision. For instance, when you notice a light pattern in the left side of your field of vision, you do not move your eyes into that direction. You use your peripheral vision instead. This way you will not be able to see things very clearly (with peripheral vision you only see colours, but the shape of things tend to be blurry). Thats my main problem with this method

2, You begin holding your gaze in front of you. However, when you notice something you move your eyes there an focus on it. This way you will be able to see things more clearly, but it requires constant eye movement.

Do you know which method is more suitable for noticing? If I recall correctly one of Xanth's posts suggests the first one (1,). I tend to go for the 1, as well, but I am not sure. Is it a problem if I can not see the shape of the irregularities (in the blacness behind my closed eyes) very clearly?

Thanks   

Hi

I have been using "breath awareness" to reach a meditative state for AP.

During the exercise, I observe the sensations caused by the breath where it enters and leaves the body (around the nosetrills). I do not observe the whole course of the breath. I narrow my focus around a specific area( the nose). I do this because I have read that this is a traditional way of observing the breath (in Budhist meditation).
((((I have tried to observe the breath  in other ways as well, but for diferent reasons it didn't work.))))


However, the sensations around the tips of the nosetrills are so subtle that sometimes I loose track of them. When this happens, I do nothing, I just continue obseving that small area. In other words, the only thing on which I hold my attention is this small area around my nose. I am not sure if the action (holding attention on a small area of the body + looking for the sensations caused by the breath there (but not sensing anything)) is enough to reach a meditative state suitable for AP.

Do you have any idea?
Can I reach this state if I do the meditation in the above mentioned way?

Thanks in advance

Thanks for the suggestions.

As I understand Stokie's words, it is very important that the activity needs to be repetitive. The reason why I tried to avoid too much repetition is that I had read in one of Frank's posts: "too much repetition might make you get bored or fall asleep".  In my opinion it is not the repetition, which causes the trance state and any kind of activity is suitable if it keeps your mind awake and lets your body fall asleep.

Newerthles, I came up with a repetitive action. It is not much fun, but I will try to engage myself as much as possible.I imagine a cottage with a nice garden. There is a table outside placed near the wall. I sit down there and imagine "peeling potatoes". I peel each potato with the same movements so the whole thing is repeated after each potato. Is this activity suitable   for a "run-down"?

Hi

I am practicing the "run-down" phasing methods. I have tried several scenarios, but neither of them  have brought me success yet. I do two kinds of activity. One with less movement and another with more movement. I would like to ask which one is more suitable for a run down.

As an enviroment I usualy imagine a white beach, where I do various activities:

1, using some tools I bulid a sand castle, while feeling the water reach my foot, feeling the wet sand on my hands and hearing the sound of the waves.

2, I go into the sea with a ball and play and swim. (sometimes instead of this I practice martial-arts near the sea)
( I enjoy all 3 activities)

The (1,) activity is more creative and complex (since I am building sg) and does not involve a lot of movements.
The other two is less complex and less creative. But they consists of more intense movements, which makes it easier for me to actually "feel" what I am doing (involve body awareness more)

Can anyone tell me, which type of activity is more suitable for "run-down"? The (1), which is more creative and involve less movements? Or the other 2, which involve more intense movements?                                                                         Thanks in advance

Thanks for the quick reply