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Could I perhaps venture that you're not lucid enough then?

Once you know of your intention to OBE returning to your body seems simple enough. Simply think of (focus on) the middle of your physical head.

Worked for me.

Thanks for the replies -

Xanth: I don't mind waking up and moving around (wake back to bed), but as Nicholas Newport said "Awakening without moving is a good lucid dreaming skill". For the SOBT method this is a fundamental part of the method, and also, Nicholas Newport said that he most often does the waking up without moving method.

If you do not move and don't open your eyes when you wake up, then you have a greater possibility of slipping into waking sleep paralysis. Seems logical, because your body doesn't know you're awake, and might fall asleep leaving  your mind awake.

Well thats the theory anyway.  Anybody got this to work?

Hi there

I'd like to know how to achieve waking up in the morning without moving or opening my eyes. (Affirmations?)

At night my body takes over the whole show and what my spirit wants is thrown out the window. There is no thought of OBE until after I've already woken up, walked all over the place, etc.

I wish to awaken early in the morning (3am) and do OBE attempts, directly from sleep.

My body has even been known to take off my headphones without my permission. Its like everything OBE related is thrown out the window when I go to sleep.

Thanks

Neil

Thanks for the response, and I have some more reading to do now

Hi

http://www.astralprojectnow.com

Has anyone read the book 'Astral Projection Underground'? Is it worth the $37 the author is charging for it?

Thanks

Hi (discussion and theory)

In teleporting OBE's which I learned about in L102, you teleport to a location without phasing. You just decide to be somewhere else, and you imagine all the sensations, sounds, etc. Eventually you can actually teleport to that location.

Although this is can be an immersive technique, I noticed that it also works on a lighter level of trance. It seems possible to have degrees of teleporation, where you are "bi-located" (he mentions this), so you can be concious of present reality (even eyes open), and of the alternative reality.

The material is so condensed, that I glossed over on important point (and it isn't explicitly mentioned.) As we know, the body is like a "Televion" or TV Aerial, which allows you to focus on a reality.

What isn't so obvious, is that in the astral realities which we can access (including ones of our own creation), this also holds true. In other words, its tempting to teleport into another reality but forget about the body. Maybe others wouldn't make this mistake, but:

The example was an own-created reality. I found that I managed to get it to be very clearly distinct, but I struggled to focus. I kept on seeing things from behind the body, in front of the body, outside of the body, wherever.

So the solution is to create an imaginary friend in the environment. This person's job is to stare into your eyes (best to create opposite sex). You will find that when you are staring into the person's eyes, you are correctly located INSIDE the body. Just continue to use this, and it will "draw you" into the body. This I think applies only to a non-immersive visualization.

It also trains you to stop using the physical eyes every time you see something on the non-physical (this is the hard part - your eyes want to follow everything). I found every time I opened my eyes in non-physical to stare into my friend's eyes, I automatically opened my physical eyes.

So the method is as follows:

1. Visualize a non-physical environment (or physical)
2. Get  a body there (your vehicle)
3. Use every possible sensation and 5 senses , to the extreme, to improve this new body's perception.
4. After a while, your teleported copy will actually start to feel sensations - this takes a while and feels imaginary at first - like holding someone's hand (you can actually feel their hand).  You become more and more aware of things around you, and this is apparently the key to teleportation. (See L102 for more details).
5. I think that the best method to get yourself into your new body (in non-immersive techniques), is to stare into someone's eyes directly in front of your face. This will give you no choice but to use your non-physical body EYES, and not float nebulously behind it somewhere (this gives you nothing to focus on). The other person's eyes are directly in front of your face. You have no choice but to use your eyes.
6. Continue to train yourself to use your body' eyes at all time. You should always be on the lookout for when you're not in your non-physical body. Don't cheat and fly around as a piece of ether. Be in the body. When you are in your body in the non-physical, you can't see the rest of your body, and that is how you know it is working. If you can see various parts of your body which you normally can't see in the physical, you're not in your body.
7. You can use other methods to improve "in the body" like creating sensations in other parts of the body and focusing on them.

This is my theory. The L102 material is VERY condensed and needs expanding on (and discussion).

Also, "don't blame the science - blame the practictioner" (sorry if I'm rude), but perhaps there is something else that is needed, some skill, something, in order to do verifications. I know you have been practicing for a LONG time, but it is just a suggestion - don't take it the wrong way.

Bruce Moen provides independent, cross the world validations on his site, where more than one person independently verifies details of retrievals (without correlating their notes)

I found a good thread which covers this topic: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/how_to_maintain_awareness_when_gong_into_sleep_state-t29591.0.html

I used the timer method from L101 and it gave me 2 obes in about a week. Both at night.

Its still very hit and miss. I'm not sure what works and what doesn't. Sometimes I just lay there and sometimes I fall asleep. The timer beeps wake me up but i'm not in SP. So it is also frustrating for me, but I think I should thank my lucky stars that it worked for twice in one week.

One method I would like to suggest is Bruce Moen's "After life knowledge guidebook". (See http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com). He uses imagination to "prime the pump". Its a much gentler way of getting into the non-physical than through SP and vibrations. Also the imagination you use doesn't have to be perceptible to you - his method is very forgiving.

The thing that has delayed me with his method, is that he is almost too slow in getting going. I want to have the immersive OBE experience, immediately. I need to give it an honest try. Many people have recommended his methods as being excellent.

the ganja long enough, but I don't think any blanket statements can be made between drugs and astral projection.

Drugs can give some absolutely mind blowing experiences. The problem is that they can be highly life threatening.

I once moved into another body on a particular drug. But I never experienced sleep paralysis and vibrations like I did when I was sober. That for me sealed it. It is such a drastic experience, better than anything I experienced on drugs. I way prefer it. Now I have the patience to try and achieve it naturally, without the risk of killing myself off every time. Ok, the risk of killing yourself on ganja is far less than what I was playing around with.

I found the experiences (while out of this world) on drugs seemed to have little lasting value and one soon forgot about them. Side effect is that one becomes absolutely dependent on them to achieve this affect, and one doesn't realize it is perfectly possible without the crutch. As you said, the clarity is better without ganja (though I never specifically OBE on ganja).

Also if you read Monroe's material, the astral you achieve on drugs is Focus 21, like a containment area for crazies. Someone else mentioned in this thread you would never experience real projection into the shared reality, for your protection and others.

Let me dig my books out and give some fair use quotes out of them to substantiate what I said about spirits begetting children.

I don't see any benefit from trying for 3 hours. If I don't have anything going on in about 30 to 45 minutes, I'll abort. I would say technique and level of awareness is more important than length of time.

One benefit is that you can practice visualizations during this period.

Having said this I think you are right. I've fallen into sleep paralysis twice (-> AP) and usually it was quite quick.

Hi Grey

Thanks for the feedback!

btw is the Lucidology method to be found anywhere online?? If so could you please provide a link??

Try this thread: http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_obe_discussions/a_very_effective_product_for_projection_obe_ap_oobe-t29674.0.html

Some text appeared on my computer screen without me having typed it. On the surface it seems like nonsense, but underneath, who knows?

It happened when I was sick and in an altered state of consciousness.

I noticed that when someone said something to me, I would automatically laugh. It wasn't a genuine laugh, it was a laugh which seemed to come out of social conditioning. What was curious to me was that it happened so fast, that I wasn't aware of it.

There seemed to be something which was subconsciously filtering my input and automatically making me laugh, without me having to consciously think it was funny.

I thought, if there was this automaton in my brain, how many others? I decided to establish communication with these "machines" which seemed to have a degree of intelligence, and indeed to some degree personalities of their own.

One machine I knew for sure was the "laughing machine". Thats the one which made me laugh automatically. It was my "in" on the machines, because I had identified one that existed, without question. Now I wanted to know about others.

My solution was to send a message to all the machines in my consciousness and tell them to announce themselves.

Part of the message I got (sub)consciously and transcribed into text. Part of the message was typed without me typing a word on the keyboard. This is the most interesting to me.

Here is the dialog:

I typed this

I AM THE VOLIK MACHINE

note: this seemed to be the machine in charge, and was the one I was dialoging with

MACHINE LAUGH DESCRIBE FUNCTION

POLIK MACHINE:

PAINTING MACHINE:

My function is to take everything that is in the body and paint it nicely on the outside. (Displays body; make visible)

SVALIK MACHINE

don't understand at all what this machine does

i am the bufelektik machine.

its function is to retrieve the memory by date and then bring a copy to present time.

store all memories forever. cataloged by date, emotion, smell, location,

4 MACHINES HANDLING LANGUAGES

MESSAGE TO ALL LANGUAGE TRANSLATION MACHINES:

MESSAGE TO LANGUAGE REVERSER:

The following is the text which I did not type

I AM THE VIELEPIET

I AM THE FROLIK MACHINE

I AM THE SHREPSTIK MACHINE

I AM THE FLOVEBEDICK MACHINE

If the list contains the particular inflection used then a laugh is immediately recommended.

The text mentioned above was never typed by myself, but I have kept it for the past few years as evidence of the only supernatural event which ever happened to me, which I cannot dispute. The most interesting sentence to me is the last one above: If the list contains the particular inflection....

You have really peaked my interest in your computer experience. Would you please share what information appeared on your computer screen?  Thanks...

Sure, I'll open another thread. I hope it isn't off-topic though.

I randomly choose the card to be viewed from a deck of about 30 cards. I do not look at the card when I place it in the box. I light the box every night before I go to bed and I attempt to view the card while I project. So far I've viewed the card about 6 times....but not once have I gotten it correct. In fact the image I see is not an image in my deck. For example, last night I viewed a flower in the box while in fact it was a half moon.

Has anyone considered that this is a perfectly natural consequence of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle (and the observer effect) at work? (See quantum mechanics for the theory)

So the card's state is actually undetermined, until someone on the physical plane observes it. Maybe observation on the astral is unable to fulfill the contract of the observer effect.

So: try the experiment thus: Have someone ELSE observe the card, on the physical plane. Don't let them tell you. This should "lock in" the choice of card on the physical plane. Then observe on the astral and let us know the results.

Just another note. I would've stuck it out for another 3 hours last night. I could feel definite sensations. Then I started worrying about getting enough sleep for the next day.

Do you think I should've stuck it out for another 3 hours? Or the whole night? I really don't care about feeling tired (and at least my body would've been relaxed for the entire time).

I need some help.

When I'm attempting body paralysis it seems that the most likely time is when I'm not expecting it. In a way when I've given up trying thats when it happens.

This is very annoying because it means every time I'm making progress I have to give up first before anything happens.

I lay awake last night perfectly still (after having had success the previous night). I laid still for about 3 hours. Every time I started slipping into sleep (mind awake), I would say "yay! this is it!" and wake myself up again.

It is really bugging me. There must be a way around this paradox. How did others get around this? It means the more successful I am the less successful I will be afterwards!

And I hate giving up all the time. I want to be making solid progress all the time.

I think this ties in strongly with the concept of consensus reality.

We can't see things if we don't allow them to be, in our reality. However, there is a "window of opportunity" mentioned by Bruce Moen, wherein we are taken by surprise, and for that brief moment, something which conflicts with our reality is "allowed" to happen. Then we do damage control and find something rational to explain it.

I had writing appear on my computer screen when fully conscious and without me having typed it. Believe me, I found many rational explanations for it which are just as compelling as the supernatural one. Yet it happened.

I think we need to find ways to change our consensus reality so that more interesting things become possible. They are possible, we just always find a "rational" explanation for them.

One book I read on astral travel claims spirits in the astral can become pregnant, and beget offspring, in the same way humans do.

Other books either don't mention the possibility or say that spirits do not become pregnant.

Most seem to say there is astral sex, although with consequences or not there seems to be doubt.

[as much as possible]

If this is what it was like for you, I would be interested in knowing because when I had my experiences it was the most frightening thing I have ever been through. Good luck to you in all your future travels!

Yeah it looks like instinctively the gut reaction is to be terrified because you're absolutely paralyzed and can't move a muscle! Its like being in a bad dream and not  being able to wake up.

Thats why I'd like to experience this as as much as possible so I get used to the feeling - I mean it is what I was trying for all along, go figure , and then I instinctively resist it. I was SOOOO glad this morning that I managed to go into it and AP!!!

I had a strange experience last night. I was trying to AP, relaxation and visualization. Then my body sent me the "Roll over" command (lying on my back)(see Lucidology 101) which I ignored for as long as possible.

When I did roll - I was in full on sleep paralysis! I didn't like the feeling - my body felt tense and I instinctively tried to abort - but I COULD NOT! (very weird and uncomfortable). I had to relax, go through the vibes - and land up in AP.

It was most uncomfortable because I could still feel my stressed out body (lying uncomfortably). Eventually I fell asleep in AP.

Anyone had a similar experience ? (By the way I DON'T want advice on how to break sleep paralysis. I woke up this morning feeling like a $1 million having had my second AP in a week).

I'm sorry to harp on this subject, but I am gobsmacked by how the freely available Lucidology 101 has helped me to AP.

Forget about the commercial L102, L101 helped me more than anything I've read or practiced in the past 6 months. He mentions mistakes and myths that books actually TELL YOU to make.

I'm so surprised at the authors of these books. Its like they missed the point entirely.

When I was watching Nicholas Newport's material, I was just going ... aha! aha!

Some of the points...

1) Sleep paralysis, confusingly named body awake/mind asleep, is one of the major markers in OBE, but it is not the actual event - it happens BEFORE you can AP. You need to relax thru it! No-one mentioned this before, that I've read.

2) You can AP lying on your side! I didn't think this was possible until it happened to me last night, and him revealing this unveiled one of my stumbling blocks

I could go on and on. The material (L101) is very extensive and I recommend everyone serious about AP give it a try. I think it has saved me years of time!

Hmmm... I've started to combine methods from 102 and 101.

101 = Projecting without visualizations, 102 = using visualizations.

For anyone who hasn't read it, the freely available 101 material contains a wealth of information. Its helped me far more than any of the 3 books I've read on the subject.

Last night, I started with a visualization, combined with the timer mp3 beeps from saltcube.com. I find the shifted eyeballs trick quite difficult (its a method to relax your eyes, which helps trick the body into falling asleep.)

So I visualized myself standing at the foot of my bed, looking at myself, and tried to get the viewpoint from there. Also I tried a trick I learned independently, which is to pull my physical body into my "imaginary" body.

Success! Sleep paralysis / OBE (on my SIDE)

When you buy the Lucidology 102 product, there is no indication whether or not you should try the 101 methods first, and for how long.

So the question is, when to graduate to 102? Is a graduation necessary or is it effective to simply focus on the 102 methods, using 101 where applicable?