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I have a lot of unplanned OOBEs and have had them since I was little. I feel really lucky and happy to have had these experiences and, though there were times when my real-time projections tended to feel very creepy, my projections have always been pretty fear free. As a teenager, I found out the name for OOBEs and learned how to cause them.

I've gone through a few years of not doing intentional OOBEs, and now I've started to do them again. The problem is that whenever I lay down to practice, I get this very unpleasant sensation that I'm being watched by an unpleasant or mean energy (before I've done any preliminary preparations), and then I begin to feel anxious and not interested in projecting.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing, and how did you overcome it?

The main factors I think may be causing this:
1. I have recently started to doubt my spiritual/psi knowledge and abilities. Everything I thought I knew how to do now seems very minor, perhaps invalid. I think this may leave me feeling unprotected.

2. My house is a place of bad energy due to poor location and layout, past violence in the house, and my own tendency to draw yucky energy to places I live.

3. My psychic and psychological sensitivies to the above.

I'd like to try to AP from a place other than my house, perhaps a relative's house or a hotel, sometime. That way I might see how much environment is affecting me. In the meantime, does anyone have ideas on the "paranoid feeling"?

Thanks!
Laurel

My husband-type person and I have this long standing disagreement going. He thinks that, if you're involved in intense psychic/spiritual development and not extremely secretive about it, you should not be involved in political activism (anything from letter-writing to rallies to community organizing), because it's likely to get you too much attention from the FBI or other powerful groups and agencies. I'm posting this publicly, so I guess you can tell that I don't go along with that idea.

But I do consider it. Being a vocal citizen is important to me at this stage of the game, and I feel it contributes to my spiritual/psychic development. Although I know there are other ways to "do good" besides political activism (or human rights stuff), I feel very drawn to that particular form of contributing in the physical. Has anyone else dealt with this topic? What conclusions or thoughts have you had about it?

Laurel

A dear friend who is pregnant and has been on bed rest for the past month or so due to high blood pressure is having her baby tonight. He is only 31 weeks old, which is very premature. If you have a moment of focus to spare, I'm sure the both of them would benefit from some healing, protective energy today and during the next few weeks (when the baby, a boy, will likely be in the hospital connected to all kinds of life support and the mother will be recovering from her ordeal).

In case it helps, my friend's name is "Birch" and her baby will be called "Ryan." They live in New Orleans.

Blessings!
Laurel

As a child, I had a terrible time dealing with Negs. I'm wondering if anyone here had similar experiences. Let me describe mine. This is a summary that leaves out many details, but it is still rather long.

My problems started when I was about 3.5 (yes I remember my early childhood clearly). My family had moved into another house. My parents were both alcoholics who had frequent parties and my brother was a "troubled youth" who toyed with (mock?) ritual satanism and was frequently in trouble with the law. I was not baptized and my family was not religious.

I was a sensitive, precocious little one who had always had a great sense of exploration. However, soon after we moved, that changed. Every night as I was going to sleep, I would see what I can only describe as "energies" forming in the room and getting closer and closer to me. Sometimes they seemed to be talking to me inside my head. They would crowd me until I was completely terrified, and I'd scream or call for my parents, who sometimes heard me and sometimes didn't. This was the beginning.

As time passed, I became very withdrawn and aware of "bad spirits" in our house and around me. I could feel them around me, especially when I was alone. I was afraid of people and everything else. Once I started school (a religious school, though my family wasn't religious), I adopted a complex bedtime ritual (involving prayer and trance) meant to ward off the "spirits," but this ritual was not particularly effective. It actually seemed to make things worse. I became rather paranoid and was afraid to close or hide my eyes while in the house--I felt I was always being watched, and I could see the energies watching me--so I had peculiar ways of getting dressed and showering. I developed some personally disruptive bad habits. I became very shy and hardly talked to anyone. I tried sometimes to tell my mother what was happening, but of course she never believed me. Luckily, she often let me sleep in my parents bed when the nightmares and night terrors were at their worst, and this helped, though sometimes the faucet in her bathroom turned on repeatedly while I was there.

One of my worst sensations was the feeling that reality was unreal, that physical locales I wasn't looking directly at ceased to exist, that these horrible entities were gods, and that if I wasn't careful, I would be swallowed into a void. It was crazy, but I often found myself physically running down the long hallway while trying to look in all directions at once so that the void couldn't approach and swallow me.

By the time I was 10, my parents thought it was time for me to "grow out of" my fears and to "stop being so sensitive." However, things were getting worse. Poltergeist-type activities began in my room and around electrical equipment. I had many battery-operated kid's toys, and these would turn on and off by themselves during the day and night. The bedroom door would open and close of its own accord, which of course my parents attributed to air-conditioning related changes in pressure, and things fell off the shelves. The television and vaccuum cleaner also liked to turn on by themselves, sometimes when they weren't plugged in. (I'm not sure these were entired related to negative entities, though, because I still tend to mess up electrical stuff, and I think my afflictions have eased off.)

I also had a lot of out-of-body experiences, many of them unpleasant but some of them vacation-like.

The creepiest thing of all was the non-electric toys and their movements. In my room were marionettes my parents had hung from my ceiling. They would sometimes move in conjunction with the voices I heard. Other children spending the night at my house also saw and heard this happen. No adult ever did.

A few times bizarre things happened to me that led to injury of myself and others. I regularly felt myself taken over by compulsions to do strange things, some of them more benign (like smashing dinner plates) than others (pushing my dear best friend off my speeding go-cart). I was ashamed and perplexed by these events.

When I was 11, we moved to a new house, but this was not the end of my problems. I was deeply depressed, was seriously sleep-deprived after a lifetime of fear. (By the time I was 8, doctors had suggested to my parents that I take antidepressant medication, but I refused, certain that there wasn't anything wrong with my brain.) I also developed bizarre neurological and immunological problems. I felt very damaged and thought I might be evil. I began reading "New Age" and self-help books that I found on the shelves of family friends, things like Shakti Gawain and "What to say when you talk to yourself."

We moved several other times. Although I was successful in school, I was troubled. I wrote poetry, most of it very hopeful and spiritual, but sometimes I felt myself taken over and would write bizarre "evil" poetry and things that terrified me. When I was 14,  had a dream in which it seemed the entities were telling me the course of my life: suicide. Part of me wholly grasped on to this plan (which was nothing simple--first I had to write a manifesto on reality as dictated by the energy), and another part realized that the other part was frankly psychotic.

The sane part of me alerted my mother to the urgent situation but didn't believe in the entities and requested psychiatric help. My mother couldn't accept that there was anything wrong, but eventually I got the so-called "help" and then landed in a psychiatric unit where I was drugged out of my mind and more afflicted by the Negs than before. The doctors couldn't agree on what was wrong with me, because despite that I was sometimes very weird, I could discuss my "case" objectively and logically at other times. Often I really seemed to be living in another world, became very paranoid, sometimes "losing" weeks of time to psychotic oblivion (and allergic reactions to antipsychotic medications). I was not able to attend school during this time. This for about a year and a half, when my mother realized my problems were getting worse, took me off all the crazy medications, and started taking me around to New Age shops and psychics (though she knew nothing about metaphysics) so that I could read and try to figure out how to help myself. I taught myself about chakras and energy work and also sought wisdom through Buddhist teachings.

My family situation was rather bad, with my parents still alcoholic and miserable, moreso because of my long-standing problems. When I turned 18, I moved across the country from my parents, and my "emotional" problems decreased, but I became seriously ill with a degenerative neurological disorder.

Luckily, between age 18 and now (years later), I have found ways to diminish the effects of these "bad energies" and to use my psychic abilities in better ways. But I still don't feel on top of it all. I meditate, do energy work, stay away from people who seem to have a "dark" cast over them, and try not to let the bad stuff get to me. I have had no serious mental problems since I stopped living at my parents' home.  

I'm wondering if others who've had similar experiences have tried Robert Bruce's methods to finally free themselves of the Negs, and if this approach has been effective. I particularly interested in talking with people who had intense Neg experiences as children and in hearing about how they are doing now.
Laurel
(edited for clarity)

Hey Great Outdoors,

What do you think about it? Do you think it was more than a dream?

Sorry to get all therapisty on you, but usually the dreamer/experiencer knows best, I believe. I think it's possible your experience was "more than a dream."

I wonder if it might be helpful to start a topic about learning to communicate with animals. Or is that what this topic can be?

If anyone wants to practice talking with any of my animals, let me know. Maybe if we got going, we could all practice on one another's animals. Sometimes it's harder to talk with your own cohabiting animals than someone else's, especially when you're learning, because your own opinions about what your beloved friend will say is mixed up with what s/he DOES say.

There's a neat book about dog training called Beyond Obediencewhich incorporates communicating with your dog for yourself, though.

Does anyone want to get together to discuss/practice stuff from The Language of Animals chapter by chapter or exercise by exercise?

Laurel

Hi Nick,

I just saw your note!

Maybe you have already found a good book to guide you, but I do have a couple of suggestions.

The book that really got me going (quite a few years ago) was Penelope Smith's book, Animal Talk. It's inspiring and has good basic instructions.

Another book that was give to me to review was "The Language of Animals: 7 Steps to Communicating with Animals." I was very impressed by the author's description and instruction. She describe common pitfalls and how to sidestep them and also gives ideas for communicating in various situations.

Also, I was talking yesterday to a friend who does professional psychic work and who is learning to do animal communication. She says she has found a book called "Straight from the Horse's Mouth," by Amelia Kinkade and is extremely happy with it.

Anyway, good luck, and if I can be of any help, just ask.
Laurel

Nay, thanks for sharing. What a wonderful image your story about Kirby gave me!

I've never pondered the origins of astral animals. I wonder...

Nick, I actually have read the book you mentioned (I agree that it's very interesting!) and do animal communication for others sometimes. I love being able to help out when there are problems, and I love being able to connect with animals so directly. There are a bunch of books out there these days that offer instruction in how to communicate with your animal friends (living or not), and if the idea appeals to you, I think it's a great thing to experience. Worth the effort it takes to open up.

Laurel  

I know that animals live after they die. I used to work at a veterinarian's office and often stayed with animals during their last moments. When an animal would die, I could see and feel his spirit leaving his body and rejoicing at the freedom of it. Furthermore, it was a fairly common thing to see an animal who had died at home to "visit" the clinic in spirit. I will never forget being greeted one morning in the kennel by an animal who had died overnight at home. She was exuberantly flying/running down the kennel hall, thanking us for her care. She was obviously happy to be free from the troubles of her body.

(Just for clarity, I should say that not everyone could see and feel these phenomena. I was lucky enough to work with another intuitive person who could experience and verify what I saw/felt/heart, though.)

As far as where domestic animals go when they die, I agree that they tend to stay around the people they loved. But I have seen instances of the spirits of dead dogs apparently influencing the personalities and behavior of puppies of the dead dogs' owners. I think reincarnation may be possible, but I haven't seen it happen in the way that Fido becomes Spot in an undoubtable way.

Laurel

Hi Jamie,

Congrats on making some progress in the energy work area.

Water fasting was not very helpful for me. I felt that it weakened my defenses.

I bet Nita and RB will be of great help! I will leave you in their capable hands. Please keep us posted!
Laurel

quote:Originally posted by HeadachyMuzikGirl
The problem with me and energy work is that i can't get energy to my head, where all of my neg induced problems are happening. All the pain and pressure is in my head, and no where else. I can move energy pretty freely around my body, except whenever i try to make it go into my head, the energy bounces off and goes through the rest of my body, or back down to my arms. Not "bounces"...it's as if a barrier were right below my neck forcing all the energy back.

One of the things you might not be taking into account is that sometimes the effects of energy work are not immediate. Sometimes it takes a long period of regular work to get much of a budge. What is your technique for bringing energy into the blocked area? Maybe if you describe what you have tried, I and other forum members will have ideas for alternate approaches.

In general, I would say that there's no need to give up on energy work. Even if it seems not to have an impact on the immediate concern, it will be of benefit in the long term. Keeping your energy moving as best you can will be good for your health and overall well-being and less susceptible to worsening neg events if you already have them.

My teacher always says, "stick with success." So if, right now, with the technique you're using, you feel you are not moving energy around your head, don't worry about it. Keep experimenting with your energy in ways that are successful. Everything is interrelated, so it may be that you'll find a "loosening" of the blocks you feel in your head in response to other energy work.

Have you tried any other countermeasures? How's it going for you?
Laurel

Bye, Tisha!

We'll miss your crimes of fashion!

Bye bye Terry B!

Come home safely!
Laurel

Hey Len,

First off, let me tell you that it's pretty normal for new people's posts to get ignored in any community, especially when the request is something that most people don't have much (if any) experience with. So, the lack of reply is nothing personal, even though I know it's a disappointment (it happens to me, another newbie here, too.)

Usually the best way to get answers is to first become a contributing member of the community. Let people get to know you by replying thoughtfully to existing topics, adding useful commentary and sharing your experiences when appropriate. When you're familiar to people in the community, it's more likely for people to take the time and effect to respond to "help! need info" type posts (or any other kind, for that matter.)

That being said, let me try to address your concern.

Obviously, it's not a good idea to even accidentally call up "bad spirits." Maybe you find yourself doing this because you're overly focused on the idea. Maybe if it's not possible for you to calm your compulsing and obsessing, you can find something else to obsess about that has less potential for harm. Looking into yourself to determine the root of your particular compulsive interest in calling up spirits (as you describe it) might illuminate your problem, too.

I don't have any experience with OCD-induced requests for evil, but I'd guess that not intending the request seriously might make it less potent. So if you find yourself making a request, you could try to follow or preceed it with a silly or negating phrase. (Not sure this would work, but if you're going to keep OOBEing, you have to try something.)

Really, the best thing to do is probably to use cognitive behavioral methods, which you can learn about in any decent library or bookstore, to deal with your obsessing in the context of OOBEs. Physical, emotional and spiritual health all tie into one another, so taking care of yourself psychologically will help you move forward spiritually, too.

Good luck with everything!
Laurel

I have a CD that's sort of "New Age Gospel," with folksy music and a guy singing stuff like, "We clothe ourselves in light, we clothe ourselves in light, and we are free!" and "I choose to be God's Love," and when the house gets that yucky feeling, I turn the CD on somewhat loudly and leave the house for a few hours. Or, I sing the songs (which really are annoyingly "New Agey Christian" and not particularly well done) when I'm feeling down and clogged with neg attachments. It seems to help.

Hi Jamie,

Not so long ago, I posted pretty extensively about my childhood neg experiences.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5199

The original post is a description of problems, and the third post in the thread describes some innocuous countermeasures I found myself (and almost all of them were things Robert Bruce recommended in his book.)

One of the problems with believing that negs affect me is that I tend to get creeped out too easily. I think it's important to remember that, even if they have achieved some influence over you, you are still the smarter one, the one with the most options available. Once you figure out their modes of influence and learn to adapt yourself so those modes of influence don't work, negs can't hurt you anymore. The more you can stay calm and unobsessed with neg-induced symptoms, the less power they (the symptoms and the negs) have over you. I guess if you read Practical Psychic Self-Defense, you know that already.

Anyway, read my post and if you have questions, just let me know. I'll do what I can to help!
Laurel

quote:Originally posted by bomohwkl

However, what sadden me is that MAJORITY of people goal of life is making money and completely neglecting spirituality development buy its own effort.

Yeah, it seems like life would be more pleasant if more people would see things OUR way! [] But life just isn't like that (yet?).

I've been consistently impressed with the usual lack of flame wars on this community, so I wasn't expecting Dave or anyone else to get flamed. "It takes all kinds," right?

I think Dave's philosophy is fine. In fact, if I enjoyed "doing business" and had the means to set up a business that treats its employees very well and provides phenomenal goods or services, I would probably be a business person instead of an employee. To me it makes sense to take what you have and make what you can with it. If you have the existing potential and preparations to make a lot of money (thus freeing yourself for other important pursuits besides making a living), I say, "go for it!" But as someone who values my time and does not enjoy business, I would prefer not to spend years and years of it preparing myself just to make money.

The Monroe Institute website has a great radio interview archived with Robert Monroe. Listening to that conversation really helped me see that all of life is spiritual and helps me grow. Meditating is fine, astral projecting is great, but so is challenging oneself with the profound ethical questions I might encounter as a millionaire, a nurse, a dictator, a dump truck driver. I can't get away from life's challenge. We're all in it together, trying our own approaches, perhaps not aware that we're all in it together (and this is one of the biggest challenges, it seems!)
Laurel

I used to have a job as a vet tech, and to this very day I still know how to lovingly wrestle unhappy dogs and cats, draw blood from a moving furry leg vein, tell by looking at an animal what his disposition is and cauterize bleeders faster than a speeding bullet.
Laurel

I feel really disappointed in my friends who rationalize apathy by saying, "Oh, those starving people CHOSE to starve to fulfill a soul agreement." My thought is, "Maybe they are choosing starve. Maybe if we choose to help them we will be fulfilling OUR soul agreement." But it's too "negative" to focus on alleviating suffering, they say. Much easier to buy some meditation CDs, New Age How-To books, and just forget about it. []

I guess my view of money is colored by my childhood, in which my family started out very poor and ended up fairly well-off but none the happier, in fact, less happy.

My teacher charges a small amount for his instruction, and he says that people don't appreciate what they get for free. This may be true in our society, which is so obsessed with money, but I think in a different world, we might be more likely to appreciate things because they are valuable in another way instead of monetarily valuable. I am inspired by the idea of Participatory Economy (www.parecon.org), but I realize that I'm likely to be living in this materialist society for the rest of my natural life.

My way of dealing with it has been this: My time is the most valuable thing I have. It is worth more than any salary. But money is helpful if I want to eat, have a place to live, use the internet, enjoy certain physical experiences. So I work as little as necessary to maintain a physical/emotional/spiritual standard of living that satisfies me, and I make sure my work is neutral or helpful in the scheme of things. (Working in the field of allopathic medicine, though, lately I wonder if I'm doing more harm than good in the larger scheme of things.)

In my group of friends and family, I am one of the people call when they want opinions or help on spiritual/energy work/health issues. These people often ask me, "why do you waste your time working at a job that pays $X/hour when you could help people more and get paid $XX/hour?" I have done "consultations" for which people paid me, and I don't like the dynamic that gets created of me being the knowing one and the other person being the unknowing subject. Sometimes I think it's silly to think that way, though, because intuitive/spiritual abilities seem to be talents not much different from other talents (the ability to paint, cut hair, analyze blood, cook) which we frequently pay people to use on our behalf. Maybe I do know more in general about how to find certain bits of information. My using it and claiming it monetarily valuable in the context of our society isn't the same thing as my using it and claiming that I'm the only one who could offer such information. There's also the issue of people who are hugely talented (not me) having to work at unfulfilling jobs all day just to get by financially instead of spending that time helping people while "getting by" just fine.

Education is another issue that seems bound up in money. I have never finished (or really even started) college, and every year that passes seems to make it less likely that I will. College is, for many, the way out of poverty (or at least it used to be.) But to me it seems just as much like a way in to student loan debt, requirements to act civilized and accept the values of an "educated" group, which include buying big houses and new cars and the right clothes. You know the drill. There's part of me that really wants the degree, though, so that I'll have the advantage of the degree if ever my current line of work fails and so I'll have some credibility in the eyes of people who believe formal education alone makes one credible. But wasting all that time in the hallowed halls (where the values and subjects that make life worth living for me are mocked and deconstructed) seems so depressing.

Yeah, it's a strange life, this one. How's it going for you?
Laurel

I read Monroe's first book in high school, having had OOBEs all my life but all of the sudden going through a phase of having them "too often" and not knowing exactly what to do about them. I found Journeys Out of the Body very comforting at that time, and it inspired me to try to get more control of when I had projections.

One of the things I like about his books is how they detail his progression from beginner to expert. They show that progress in AP abilities is possible over the course of a lifetime (or even a few years) if you are consistent in your practice and intentions.

This book might also be good for people who are incredulous about AP but want to have a better understanding of the basic experience of it. Monroe writes from an inquiring, open-minded but critical mindset.

Laurel

quote:Originally posted by Nay
Do you think the connection with the child was a connection with another part of you, perhaps?..

Hmm. Well, inasmuch as everyone is a part of everyone else in some way, maybe. But this baby was my sister's, not mine, and I was not in communication with my sister at the time. (I'm not sure why I forgot to put that in my original post!)

Bomo: I've heard that "we astral project every night" idea, too, in connection with Buddhism. If it's true, yeah, it seems another reason that conscious projections of pregnant women would be no problem. I think maybe if we do each project all the time, we might not go very far. Notice all the really zoned out sleeping people in the "lower" astral zones?

I'm often one of them! A lot of my projection memories following sleep are me struggling to stay awake and alert in the astral. I'll become alert and think to myself, "hey, I'm out of body! Let me explore!" Then I'll zone out again and wake up again, over and over, without ever accomplishing anything. Hee. Anyway, that's off-topic.

Laurel

Hey Amicus,

I agree with Nay--neat question!

I don't have any direct experience with OOBE and being pregnant, but I have had the experience (if you want to believe in it or not) of connecting with the... intelligent essence of a baby before she was born. This particular essence was a curious and loving spirit, very happy and boisterous. (When it was happening, I wasn't sure that it was real, but then her baby personality turned out to match her "essence" personality very closely.) Although I don't feel like I communicated with the future baby on this exact subject, Nay's description of children hanging out in the womb sometimes but also going off on their own little adventures and planning missions seems accurate based on my experience with this one person.

I would tend to think that AP would be more helpful than harmful for the mother/child combination. Though the baby wouldn't necessarily astral project while the mother does, the experience might have a good overall effect on the mother/child duo, energetically and spiritually. Also, doing the prep work to project (energy work, concentration, relaxation) has a bunch of healthful side effects if done properly (in moderation.) Another interesting effect of the mother projecting is that she might have the chance to consciously meet and get to know her future baby prior to its birth!

Michael Newton's Journey of Souls book might have something in it about this sort of thing.
Laurel

(edited for grammar)

This thread is cracking me up! I love the photo, Lasher! Can we have a sound file, too? Hee!

I sound like a Monty Python "lady" when I scream. Does that count as a talent? And I'm really good at imitating accents. I can improvise devastatingly bizarre tone poems on the piano. Also, I can write impressive-sounding poetry that's utterly devoid of meaning.

I can fall asleep at will (and I'm really asleep when I do it--I've tested myself with EEG equipment!)

Oh, and I'm able to turn off nasty odors or make them smell good to me (a side effect of cleaning up animal excretions for a living for some years.)

Aren't we all so interesting...

Hey NLC, thanks for doing all that work. Sitchin brings us some interesting discoveries, no doubt. I once saw a video documentary about him. It was fascinating. Without being an expert in his field, it's hard to be certain that his research is legitimate. Regardless of that, Sitchin's work is thought-provoking.

Thanks again!
laurel

The guy who produced "What Dreams May Come" is working on a movie now called "Indigo," about the so-called Indigo Children. Website: http://www.indigothemovie.com

Maybe it will be good.

(Edit thanks to sublime's suggestion [])

Hi Jenadots,

Just looking at your subject line made me feel headachey, phlegmy and just plain yucky. I'm sorry you're been feeling this way for a while. I'll do a little something to help, and as other Astral Pulse people do the same, I bet you'll be feeling better soon!

Laurel