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Hi all, I'm new here and I've got a question about spontaneous HHEs (hypnagogic/hynopompic experiences) occurring without sleep paralysis. I've had these on and off since the early 80s (at last this is the most "logical" explanation of what I experience), always waking me up, usually in the process of crab-crawling across the bed and shaking my husband awake, yelling my head off. The sense isn't one of extreme terror but simply how anyone would feel, opening their eyes and seeing someone standing over them while they slept. Startled--yes, irritated--yes, and upset when the last one didn't disappear after I screamed at it (it kept coming toward the bed for several seconds then finally retreated.)

I'm not one to seek out the metaphysical. Seems like it has a way of seeking me out without any help from me. It can be my imagination, so I run a check to make sure it isn't me. Most of the time, it isn't.  

All that to ask: if what I'm experiencing isn't classic HHEs, what is it, and how do you suggest I deal with it?

Thanks all! ruth

Hallo Two Bears, my grumpy old friend,

Thank you; you're very sweet. 'Tis okay, really. Actually i did offer a retort of sorts, 'way back on the first page. And if fastwalker wishes to call me a fundie, 'tis no harm done. At one time it was true.

In my meager experience-- to get back to the thought of this thread-- those who call on the name of Jesus sometimes have success and sometimes don't. It's said there's a correlation between the faith those have in him and his name, and the quality of lifestyle of the person doing the banishing/exorcising. But not always-- anecdotal stories abound to the contrary. Even those who appear to have great success in banishing whatever from those afflicted only have temporary success; often times those afflicted become reafflicted or the negs/demons resurface from wherever they were hiding. Sadly the 'exorcist' often will berate the victim for not having enough faith. I could tell you stories..... and sometimes people don't want to lose the demon/negs for reasons they may or may not know.

Is there a surefire-100%-never-ever-fails method? I haven't come across it. But as I said my experience is meager.

--ruth

quote:
Ruth,

Are you a fundamentalist? If so, I guess that explains it. The WORD refers to the spirit of God, not Jesus Christ the person. But I am not going to argue religion with you, since I willingly give allow you to have your dogma as it suits you. As one author said, so many Christians worship the road sign, and don't look where it points!

Hello Fastwalker:

Is there any need to insult her (a personal friend I might add) just because you disagree with her?

I doubt Ruth will offer a retort; but this grumpy old bear is different.

Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.
[/quote]

Howdy, fastwalker,

Ruth,

Are you a fundamentalist? If so, I guess that explains it. The WORD refers to the spirit of God, not Jesus Christ the person. But I am not going to argue religion with you, since I willingly give allow you to have your dogma as it suits you. {end quote}

Actually, no. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt... but found out some things just don't fit too well in the box.

As one author said, so many Christians worship the road sign, and don't look where it points! [end quote]

True.  --ruth

Hello fastwalker,

[quote}
I believe you will find that in clasic Christian theology, GOD the Father created everything, and Christ is the manifestation of God within human form, as symbolized by Jesus. [end quote]

Hmmm, are you sure? In every traditional Christian denomination I've been in, they've taught basically what the Gospel of St John 1:3 states-- that Jesus was the Word, and 'all things came into being through him and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being.' Ditto Colossians 1:16.  Hebrews 1: 2 says: "... in these last days He has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom {God] also made the world." Thus it appears that God did indeed create but He created through His Son. A minor quibble as you say.

quote:
The Holy Spirit completes the triune God concept by acting as grace and love in our lives. I realize all is ultimately ONE, but if you are a Christian I would hope you'd know that God the Father created heaven/earth, and Christ (the son) was the physical manifestation, not the originator of all (which is how I read your post). [end quote]

I beg to differ but that rather than debate, I'll be quiet now.

A picky point, but if you are a card carrying member, you should get it right. [end quote]

I agree wholeheartedly. PS if you want to check my refs, I used an NASB.

--ruth

Hullo Adrian,

quote: Greetings Ruth!

I don't think the issue was that different observers were seeing different manifestations, but rather they were different interpretations of the same manifestations.[end quote]

Hmmm.... I see what you're saying. Perhaps you're right. It's the part here--- "He never saw spinning heads, levitating bodies or displays of superhuman strength - even though others in the room would claim to see such things(emphasis mine). But Cuneo did see lots of vomiting, shredding of clothes, yanking of hair, screaming, howling and writhing
on the floor. During it all, Cuneo says he never believed he was witnessing anything demonic." (quote from MJ-12 below)-- that made me think it was possible he wasn't seeing everything the other folks were seeing.

Dr. Cuneo seems to be rationalising the condition along the lines of, or if you prefer, within the limitations of, his professional training and background, as a pure medical condition. He was apparently not open to the possibility that the manifestation was due to non-medical causes, i.e. demonic, or other negatitive entity possession. [end quote]

Which makes me wonder why would he do a book on exorcisms if he wasn't open to the possibility of possession?

I find this disturbing in many ways. The most vulnerable to such possession are infants and children - exactly those who look towards, and rely upon, the appropriate actions of adults to free their young bodies and minds of such an incredible burden. If the best we can expect is for a doctor to come along and prescribe some anti-biotics, then clearly our young people are in danger of being very badly let down at best, and affected for life at worst. [end quote]

I hope I don't raise any hackles by mentioning this, but there is some dispute from the lead exorcist in Rome (Catholic) over the new forms of exorcism that are being given out: to wit, that the ones who wrote the ritual don't even practice exorcism nor do they believe in personal evil (demons) and that the ritual hog-ties those who would try to exorcise people. When the practicing exorcists went to Rome to have some imput in the ritual, they were basically shown the door. It's possible he wishes to go back to pre-Vatican II days, but you'd think that if you were experienced in the business, they'd at least give you a hearing.

I am very much hoping that Robert's soon to be released new book, Practical Psychic Self Defense will increase awareness of possession, and, at the very least, cause adults to seek assistance from those who know how to deal with (exorcise) negative possessions, before they can permanently affect the possessed.[end quote]

Finding those experienced isn't all that easy, alas.

There is no excuse for ignorance regardless of qualifications, especially where children are concerned.[end quote]

As they say in my neck of the woods-- Preach it, brother!

Best regards,

Adrian.

And to you as well, ruth

In regards to Dr Cuneo not seeing anything out of the ordinary while everyone else was seeing spinning heads and whatnot, two things:

1) It is possible that Dr Cuneo was the one seeing an illusion; and,

2) Bizarre manifestations do not always mean a person is 'possessed'. Nor does a possessed person always have bizarre manifestations. It's not a tit-for-tat situation. Sadly, we've been programmed to believe demons/spirits/negs will cause us to react in bizarre ways; thus a person who believes himself to be possessed with act out accordingly. A minor spirit may put on a show but a more powerful one won't feel the need to 'play to the audience'.

--my very small two cents, ruth

quote:
Hello Ruth; mu sister. [end quote]

Hallo, Two Bears, my brother!

=
Something occurred to me-- what good would shielding do if this is a brain blip? Wouldn't that have as much effect as taking meds for a psychic attack?
=

Setting up shields is not a waste of time.

If this is a  blip of the subconscious mind; you will be telling the subconscious mind not to bring the subject up again.

The subconscious mind can not tell the difference between a real and imagined event. [end quote]

Okay, so after the shields are set up, how does one maintain them? Every night? Every week? Every month? I know when I'm crashing with a migraine all I want to do is hit the bed. Doing anything at that point is fruitless. But you know this....

-- ruth


Two Bears

Aloha nui loa
Received the title "master" 8 times and still trying to master myself.

Hello Winged Wolf,

quote:
Well, as my friend who found that shields alleviated his night terrors can attest, outside interference can trigger these kinds of sleep disorders.
The sheer amount of STUFF the human mind processes, particularly with psychic input added, is awe-inspiring.  Reducing some of that can help a person get a good nights' sleep. [end quote]

That's an interesting flip-- that the outside interference triggered the sleep disorder and not the other way around. Gotta go think about this. ---ruth


--Winged Wolf

(quote)
G'day Ruth! (end quote)

G'day, Robert!

(quote)
You do not make it clear what you see or how you see it.  Do you see people, spirits, visions, scenarios, clouds of colour, etc? Please give me a couple of typical examples or nocturnal experiences, and a couple of your others,eg, as you said, while looking at a ceiling fan or etc, and I will advise. (end quote)

What I usually see appears to be someone standing either at the foot of the bed or beside it. It looks like a person, but 'thinner' as if he were a slide projected onto a background. I usually wake up, pummeling my hubby awake, saying something like:"See him? He's right there" whereupon whatever I see recedes into the dark. No clouds, no scenes-- once I saw a book fade away like that, once a group standing around something in a circle. I have seen "him" (it's usually male and the same one) in bed between my husband and me.

The last one was different. Female, and she looked like the motorcycle poster where the body of bike was a woman painted black. This one was not superimposed but three dimensional, a darker inky darkness than the room and pinpoints of light within her body, unlike the usual lights one sees in darkness. Almost like looking at the night sky. I yelled, crab-crawling backwards across the bed. Instead of receding she kept coming toward me. I remember thinking, 'Great; if yelling isn't working, what do I do now"? At that point she backed away and faded out.

The fan is important in that when I see it more starkly defined, not blurry-- darker for instance,I know something is about to happen. I'm nearsighted; normally I wouldn't see it very clearly.

We've had some kinds of clairvoyant and clairaudient things happen, enough to tell the kids that if they see something or hear something, just be polite. It seems hereditary-- my daughters have it as well. People turning a corner ahead of me in the house, cats run in front of me when I know they're outside, hearing my name called in the middle of the night. One time all of us girls ended up in the living room together-- we'd heard another call us. None of us had called.

And then there is the "knowing". That's the only way I can describe it-- a knowing that this, this and this will happen-- in that order. I can't make it work; it happens on its own. Usually it has to so with some kind of emotionally charged spiritual situation.

(quote)
My thoughts are that you could have a more well developed brow centre (third eye) than usual. (end quote)

I used to play "tickle the head" by pointing along the bridge of my nose at my brow, causing my brow to vibrate or tickle. I can still do it.

(quote)
You are thus either experiencing clairvoyant vision, astral sight, or picking up imagery from your dream mind while you are awake or semi awake. (end quote)

I'd say dreams, because that would be the least complicated. However, none of these are like the dreams I have. My dreams are convoluted plot things, dramatic and intense. These are just people standing at my bed.

(quote)
Clairvoyance is a fickle thing.  It will often be triggered spontaneously by high energy events in the world at large, and other random factors. When this happens, one has what I call a 'clairvoyant episode', where all of a sudden you have brillinatly clear visions and etc, seemingly for no reason.  Some spirits are also capable of triggering C episodes, by manipulating the brow centre and etc.

Shielding practices are not usually effective for the average person, because people seldom keep up the practice regularly, and tend to use them only when needed.  But metaphysical shields take time to build to the level where they are effective, so they don't generally work for most people.(end quote)

How long does it take for one to build to an effective level?

(quote)
Also, medication affects brain disorders as well as mental and psychic disorders.  Medication changes the way the brain works.


Take care, Robert. (/ quote)

Thanks, Robert.  --ruth

Something occurred to me-- what good would shielding do if this is a brain blip? Wouldn't that have as much effect as taking meds for a psychic attack?

Thanks, ruth

I know some and I've done some, usually when the activity gets really persistent. It appears to have helped but it wasn't immediate, and being lazy, once the mainfestations go away, I stop the specific prayers and actions-- until it happens again.

The only pattern I can find is a build up of energy and then zzzzzt, zzzzzzt it occurs again. Oh, and when I'm seeing this "being", my eyes feel as if my contacts have slipped up under the eyelid.(I don't sleep in contacts.)  A few incidents have occurred without me going to sleep-- just turn out the light, stare at the ceiling fan and here it comes.

Thanks Winged Wolf. --ruth

quote:
Do you know anything about shielding?  I had a friend who had night terrors, and he found that they were greatly reduced when he put up a house shield.  Whether your experience is a sleep disorder or an entity, it might help--certainly worth a try.

--Winged Wolf