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I was just wondering how someone could tell the difference when one is meditating and they get swirly pictures, faces, symbols and even scenes; whether or not they are experiencing hypnagogic hallucinations or genuine clayrvoyant messages?

Thanks


OldLad (not really old though, 31 [^])

http://www.issues-mag.com/sleep.shtml

Ran across this article that I thought was interesting.  Talks about alien abduction, sleep paralysis, and OBE's.  All 3 of these phenomena seem to share similiar symptoms.  Currious to wonder how one could tell them apart when experienced?  I'm personally a believer in OBE's but all 3 experiences present themselves as real to the experiencer.  Food for thought []

Hello, glad to be back.  Been very busy lately.  

 Anyways, I'm now partially walking up after a dream consciously aware of my body in a middle of its vibrations, vision blurry, and hear only the buzzing.  Been happening much more frequently now within the last 2 weeks.  Almost 2 to 3 aweek.  Feeling paralyzed I get the erge to move but when I do my astral arms move (which I can't even see)  I just lay there.  Then I have the urge to get up.  My physical body, once again, is paralyzed but my astral body moves just slightly.  Usually to find myself unconscious again but return back on my side as I first discovered myself before, still buzzing.

  I actually thought at one point I astrally managed to plant my feet on the floor but it felt like, first, walking up a steep slope at the sametime walking as if I were a baby learning how to walk.  Was very humbling to say the least and very difficult.  Kept remateralizing back in bed on my side, STILL BUZZING.  I was beginning to wonder if I was doing anything and whether it was all dream induced.  I tried the rope trick to try and pull myself out but halfway worked but didn't know whether I was floating or partially out.  Damn frustrating.  One point I heard an Indian War yelp in the distance (thought was weird).  Needless to say it ended by my box fan growing louder and louder replacing the buzz sound untill I was able to physically move.

  My question is.  What can I do to improve all this?  Its like juggling multiple problems at the sametime and my astral body INSISTS on wanting to leave but stuck from moving.  I keep wanting to see my body lying there but...I can't see nothing nor do I know where I'm at.  Thanks for your help and glad to see everyone well.

I wanted to set a separate post aside to apologize for the length of that post.  I hurridly had to submit the post once I realized I had to meet my mother at the car service shop (almost late because of the post).  When I came back to preview my post I was utterly shocked at the length.  And very embarrassed!  I should have said at the end "I'm sure I'm not the only one to post long posts UNTIL NOW"  It's not a post its a novel!  Anyways whatever its worth it was too extreme and I will promise to be more aware of my length.  I think my fear was taking over my typing [B)]

Hello everyone, I just recently learned how to tap into seeing imagery that are signs from the spirit realm.  I always had it (since 7yrs old) but never knew what it was and simply brushed it off as my mind producing these symbols, faces, and scenes.  I then tried to practice this form of clairvoyance and watch these images whisp in and out.  I would close my eyes and just relax letting the images flow and trying to pick out anything of meaning.  Its been about 2 weeks now that I first realized what I've been seeing.  I'm very excited about the notion since it seems to come naturally to me, which makes me feel alittle more special and unique.  Just about a week ago I had a spontaneous OBE (last one was a year ago).  It was very profound this time!  In my astral travel, I was in my old childhood room, I caught a glimpse of what looked to be sunrays angled about 75 degress pointing at the astral bed.  Was wonderful, I could actually see dust particles floating threw the rays.  I glanced to find the source and a ball of light (like the sun but more whiter in color) hit me in the eyes.  It felt to be only 8 ft away but it caused me to turn away because of the brightness.  That then sent me immediately back into my body in a regular dream.  Since then, I've felt a profound change.  Calmer for one and reassured of life after death.  I've also noticed I can now see images much quicker during a medataited state of mind.  I've noticed images flowing in one ontop of the other making no scence of anything.  I would even make out whispy faces that looked in anguish.  I just thought that these were negative entities trying to connect so I mentally projected a "stop this" command.  Comical as it may sound, I even saw a projection come from the right side with a toilet plunger and plunged one of the faces.  It was as if my astral right hand did this.  This didn't work so I got even madder and concentrated with all my internal energy and shot two separate fire flames, one from my mental left, one on the right.  Which worked.  It was as if they said, "okay okay okay okay we'll settle down".  The problem I'm having is now I'm sensing presences.  I'll actually feel and hear something disrupt the environment at my side, which spokes me and makes me turn.  This is more intense at night just as I'm trying to fall asleep.  I have to sleep with lights on AND close my bedroom door to signify to the spirits "I want my privacy".  I feel like they're just standing there walking about and watching me.  Not heard voices except muffled conversations carrying on when my box fan is running so I figured well maybe its the fan.  So its off now.  Of course the distant conversations stop.  So my question (after all that) is how do I go about developing and exploring my clairvoyance without bringing in negative entities?  I'm too scared to openly voice anything to them since they might get ticked and start becoming even more noticable which would petrify me!  Just sitting here I thought I heard a ruffle sound of clothes move....JEEEEEZE!!  But I seem to have discovered that I may have a strong clairvoyant mind thats just busting at the seams to develope.  All I'm experiencing is with almost no effort.  But between being scared and worried that everytime I practice I'm only going to be bothered even more by the spirit world.  Anyway to practice this but at the sametime letting the spirit world know, "hey, when I'm not connecting I'm to be left alone".  Sorry for the long post but I'm sure I'm not the only one.  Thanks for any advice ahead of time.

Hello all.  By the way, I want to thank the moderator who directed me to searching the forum for previous posts.  Been reading and reading.  In fact, one topic I looked up, since I've always questioned it, is the notion of consciousness and death.  The post sparked a hot topic which I read every post but never really found my answer.  So the question is.  If we are all beings of spirit and of astral travel then what is the period of "nothingness" that so many people have experienced either before they were born, have passed out, or literally died but was brought back to life?  I've heard many tales of people seeing the white light and tunnels when presumed dead but the vast majority I've heard say there was a period of absolutely no consciousness of time or awareness.  Same question applies to passing out.  What causes that period of nothingness without entering an astral dimension before regaining consciousness?  I've also heard that our astral body is a part of us that lives on and on.  But how did this astral part of us come to be in the first place that allowed the transfer of our conscious awareness to happen? One self theory  that crossed my mind is "maybe we do exist in spirit but don't remember these astral projections".  If this thought holds some truth then to me I would feel abit frightened that if this memory loss could happen during certain times of our physical being, then could they happen again in the astral?  I don't know about some but simply losing consciousness of any sort is simply disturbing.  Maybe some of you have confronted this same question and found an answer that made you feel more at ease after physical death.  I've already jumped from about a 20% believer of life after death to a 80% after my OBE's but that last 20% is in these questions.  Thanks ahead of time.

Hello all!  Just wanted to say what a fantastic forum this appears to be!  Lots and lots of posts and replies.  Love it []  I just reciently opened the door to understanding OOBE's but had a history of OOBE's for over 3yrs.  Never payed any attention to it until my third episode about 4 days ago.  Anyways it would take forever to post it so basically I'm just getting acquainted on this post.  Will say this much, now that I understand what these episodes have been for the last 3yrs (3 all together, about 1 a year), I've now discovered some uncharted waters and must say I'm very excited [:O] Since the last episode 4 days ago, already my body tried to project itself twice.  Unsuccessfully though.  Strange how when it's spontaneous it's more successful but when your conscious of it happening it's not as successful.  Last two times I reached the point where my body was paralyzed, felt the buzzing of the body (rapid vibrations) and could hear the sound that the old TV shows gave flying saucers.  You know the sound of a cheap generator running.  Really feels spectacular with that sound and the vibrations at the same time.  Anyways, I tried to seperate but each attempt I would move maybe a foot and end up on my side again with the vibrations.  When it started to dissipate on its own (with much disappointment I might add), I slowly could start to hear my box fan alittle louder, alittle more, and within about 30 seconds of regressing back to the physical realm my fan was at its full volume.  That was weird!  Sorry for the long post I wasn't planning on it. But I will definitely drop some posts and respond to some if I think I might be of any help and ask for some guidance as I now have just discovered the wonders of OOBE.  Helps solidify that there is life after death.  Not as afraid as I once was just 5 days ago.  Glad to meet all of you and look forward to reading your posts and learn from one another.

I just love the support in this forum.  A number of questioned posts have been posted by myself with no advice, comments or even pointers from anyone.  I guess it shows that its not the interest of the topic that gets responses but who you know.  Anyways have fun with your little inner circle.[}:)]

Tao4mind, I've been waiting for someone who could possible help to answer a situation who's background is Native American Indian.

About 3 days ago as I was reamerging from a sleep state, I found myself in the vibrational stage of OBE.  As I lay there paralysed, and seeing my room in a blurr I heard a distant distinct Indian War Cry (the la la la la la yell) for some reason I tried to mimick the yell only no sound.  But it was distinct and only heard the one time.

Later that day I was meditating.  With my eyes closed I could make out the swirly images that come and go that most call, I guess, hypnagogic hallucinations.  But I remember one face that showed itself that I won't forget.  Appeared Indian, had a hardened look on his face, could see black painting that partially encircled his eye and then white painting that wrapped around it, from half the forehead and around the cheek.  Look like only half the face painted like this.  The hair looked pretty short though but were tied in a series of knobs that were about 1 1/2 inches a part running from front top all the way to back. Possibly what hair was left was left hanging (couldn't see that part very well) I've been researching and researching on native american culture to understand what they have believed in but its hard to find anything anymore on this topic.

Anyways, I understand you've probably adopted a more modern Christian view of society.  But you said you remember your grandfather telling you stories.  Has he ever mentioned if one hears an indian war cry, a meaning?  And the particular indian makeup come from any specific tribe or has meaning?  I could be just grabbing BUT its worth investigating for my own piece of mind.  Thanks!

Hey Curriousgirl.

 Seems like after reading everyones post that you, me and afew others have had this experience.  My very first OBE was very similiar to yours in realism but my physical body was never involved.  So you had even a more intense experience than I.

 I actually floated out of my room into the dining room area where I distinctly could see my step father reading at the table, like he always does.  The vision was crystal clear (the first and last crystal clear OBE).  Anyways, I floated right over him and landed in the kitchen where I saw him standing there looking in my direction.  When he walked towards me I blacked out into a normal sleep.

 I confronted him whether he felt or noticed anything unusual the next day and he said no.  But to me, it felt real.  No lucid dream either, I've had tons of them and know the difference right away.

 Could that have been his soul as well?  Very good possibility.  When I awoke from the experience almost immediately, the house was totally dark and no one reading in the dining room.  I do agree that another sleeping person who is also astral traveling (which every does at nights whether they remember or not) will not remember encountering you.

  Your brother trying to wake your physical self is what throws your extra twist there and think that would boggle my mind.  Just to let you know, I believe what you believe and I can relate.  Hope this helps.

        OldLad

Fallnangel, you helped me realize something by responding to T_Kman's post.  I've always heard of everyone experiencing a presence or dark entity nearby but I never experienced that, I always wondered why.  Now, I've noticed a correlation between fear and the presences (mouth full).  Maybe me not being afraid of the experiences, the guides feel I am ready for Astral exploration.  I have never felt fear during my experiences hence never felt any presences.

Nay, you are having the same exact problem I am.  I CAN'T SEE!  I see, well okay, when I'm lying in bed with vibrations going but once I think I'm astral traveling, forget it.  I can't see nor can I move well.  For some reason my astral body wants to walk on a hardened floor instead of floating or gliding.  Makes for a challenge as I'm walking as a baby first learning to walk.  

Anyways, both of you had good points that I had to respond to []


OldLad

Very good thesis.  I wish I had read your report before I posted my question earlier since you helped to answer some of my astral projection problems.  Some make quite some sence and will keep in mind in my next astral experience.

 My vibrations come fairly natural to me.  Always spontanuous and almost always about 2 hours before I normally wake up in a day.  I enter it usually right after a dream.  I'm fully conscious of whats happening to me and know, "welp, here I am in my attempting to project stage".  The easiest part is moving my astral arms.  I nearly always fail when it comes to projecting.  Alot of times the buzzing and vibrations will suddenly intensify and I think, "this maybe it!"  But instead, I black out to reawake partially lying there still vibrating.  I think blastid!  So I just lay there and wait till it runs its course.  Thanks for the post.  Made me think on my areas.

Been away from the site for awhile but when I came back noticed some wonderful astral images.  Very beautiful PeacefulWarrior!  Nice way to come back.  Can relate to the silver cord pics.  I think mine is nonelastic.  Can't hardly even project.  Keep them coming!

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Swift

oh yeah one more thing when you ap are you soppose to move like when your real life or are you soppose to move with your mind?

Mr. Swift I have learned that again it is determined by your developement in AP.  I haven't yet managed to get just the basics down on how to gain control of my movement.  So I would say the more you practice the more you learn what works for you when you do AP.  The field is there for you to play there is no rules on how you're suppose to move.  Depends on you.  Although, I have found floating seems to be easier than trying to physically walk.  Keep practicing!