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I'm sorry falseprophet, but no matter how many times i read that, i odn't understand a word of it. is there a way you could put it in more basic terms for those of us (ME) who are less knowledgeable towards the opinion you're trying to convey?

Learning is great...
learning is fun
but even more fun
with EVERYONE

okay sorry I'm being stupid... I'm just really bored.... eep... next person who sees this post needs to IM me hahahahahahaha....[]

Although I differ in belief towards the fact as to what influences divining or however I can word it, I believe I strayed from the initial debate. Therefore, I believe I will state my opinion on the original subject now: No, I do not believe that the occult is evil. It is simply a typical aspect of many peoples' lives. And I don't recall knowing mych of what has been posted on these boards, but even before I'd read the others' arguments I agreed that it isn't the tool that's evil, 'tis the user (to take words from someone who stated that opinion and which was very well argued by someone on the first page []) All the information that I have obtained through this board has been VERY interesting to me, as I had no knowledge, for example, that tarot cards had been used for gaming!! (Thank you gandalf) and I by no means wish to influence anyone and I'm sorry if I was a bit of a pain in the @$$ []
Jess

Once again it differs by belief. You may believe the logical sense. But others, including myself, may believe that our subconscious feelings, thoughts, even dreams, may be influenced by other forces. I'm not saying that you're wrong in any way. But your trying to change my beliefs and the beliefs of possibley other people in the world I find rather offensive. You are somewhat applying logical realistic aspects to an indefinite mystical science, if that's the word i could use. By no means do I mean to prove your beliefs wrong in anyway, i'm simply stating that i find them rather narrow-minded in the fact that it is very possible indeed that there are forces outside those of which we see,hear,feel,taste,smell and know. The sensual aspects of life are only the beginning. I believe myself that intuition is gently guided at times by other entities. What those entities are i wont kid myself about. I don't really know at all. It could be that i have an amazing subconscious ability to predict when something's up. But i highly doubt it. Though my intuition and other things, by my own feelings among other things, seem more as if guided by another than simply something that i don't actually know, but i do know at the same time. Hence I have no confidence whatsoever in the fact that I'm telling myself things. Though i don't doubt that our brains may very well find patterns in tarot cards, clouds, dreams, and such, there are many things like ouija boards, intuitive pulls, de ja vu, etc, that i just can't believe are coming from myself. I don't really care about whether you agree with me or not at this point, but i just ask that you don't rule out all possible aspects of something, as it may just be found offensive by someone like me who also like a bit of debate every now and then
I hope you understand where I'm coming from []
Jess

quote:Originally posted by Gandalf

Tarot cards and divining as well. They all rely on the help of spiritual powers and one can open oneself to dark spirits through this stuf
Mustardseed
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Mustardseed, I have used Tarot cards for years, as well as many other forms of oracles and I can't disagree with you enough!
Tarot cards, like any oracle like I ching or runes, are called 'oracles' as they are used to find answers to personal issues by allowing you to communicate with your sub-conscious self, who know more than you do. Tarot cards primary reason is to enlighten the *present* and to give advice on what path to take, while warning of particualr consequences of taking certain decisions.

When you consult an oracle, you are consulting yourself, not demons!

I'm afraid your quote above is an all too common example of christian progaganda which you repeat either without thinking about it or you have swallowed it whole.

I'm sorry about that last post. my computer was acting up. but to my argument. i highly disagree with your debate on whom you communicate with while using forms of oracles and/or divination.  I strongly feel that we only believe what we are communicating to, or who even. some belief systems may feel we talk to demons, some another form of higher power, and some our subconscious, or maybe even our neighbors! But who are we to decide which is correct? the fact is: WE DONT KNOW. nor will we ever i beleive unless the apocolypse engulfs us and the carrots all over the planet start spewing the secrets to life, death, and infinity! That's my personal opinion. No doubt there are many of you that highsly disagree with my argument, but it's my belief that our beliefs shape our beliefs (does that makes sense? oh well). Trying to decide on whether we talk to spirits, demons, gods, or ourselves through oracles and divination would be like deciding the true religious path. Can we truly judge?

Jess

quote:Originally posted by Gandalf

Tarot cards and divining as well. They all rely on the help of spiritual powers and one can open oneself to dark spirits through this stuf
Mustardseed
----------------------------------------------------

Mustardseed, I have used Tarot cards for years, as well as many other forms of oracles and I can't disagree with you enough!
Tarot cards, like any oracle like I ching or runes, are called 'oracles' as they are used to find answers to personal issues by allowing you to communicate with your sub-conscious self, who know more than you do. Tarot cards primary reason is to enlighten the *present* and to give advice on what path to take, while warning of particualr consequences of taking certain decisions.

When you consult an oracle, you are consulting yourself, not demons!
Dreams are also forms of oracles, are you saying we should not interprete our dreams or ask for guidance through our dreams? christians seem to do that quite often! You certainly havnt made any real study of tarot cards or any oracle imo, and books from 'christian science' bookstores on the topic certainly shouldnt be trusted!

I'm afraid your quote above is an all too common example of christian progaganda which you repeat either without thinking about it or you have swallowed it whole. This smear campaign has been ongoing for years and is now so widespread that there is now a common beleif amongst the general public that the term 'occultism' = 'satanism', this is the churches doing.
As example, how often do you see 'occultism', or 'witchcraft' thrown in with 'evil' or 'black magic' in the media/press?
I've actually given up writing in to explain the difference!

As far as the term 'occult' goes, despite what the church, the media and bad holywood movies would have you believe, the tem just refers to hidden knowedge.
btw this very forum would be refered to a 'occult' by many christian groups who, if it was up to them, would have us all shut down!
Regards,
Douglas

Well, it's nice to know that there's nice people in these forums willing to fill a newbie in []. I hope you all get as much benefit from my presence as can possibley be obtained (Which, i daresay isn't much) so please just bear with me as i invade your conversations XD

Wow... I'm new here and was just exploring, but after reading all this i realize this is a place for the wise. I guess I'd better leave hahahahaha...[8D]

well then.... Hi all. Came across this site somehow doing a historical paper... how that worked i don't know. Just makin a shout out considering this looks like a hella cool place and i'd like it if someone could tell me about what goes on here []