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Well I think that everyone probably has their own variations on meditation, but mine is to simply calm the mind.  I do this by sitting in the lotus position, which is not necessary but I have conditioned my body to know that when I sit in that position, it's meditation time.  Like lying down and knowing it's time to rest.  My next step is to take deep, slow breaths and counting each one, usually 10-20.  And lastly, I just gaze into my closed eyelids at the darkness... I think of it as a void.  There are no responsibilities, no worries, not hate, not stress, no work, no school... just the void of nothingness.  You'd be suprised to learn how good it feels to bask in total nothingness.... what is there to think about?

I've seen this footage before, and liked it just as much this time around.  I'm sort of a UFO geek though, believe it very much.  It's very possible that they could be dust particles, but I would doubt it.  The size of the objects is visibly larger than dust, and the movement of the camera suggests that the objects are on their own trajectory independent of the camera.  I think if it were in fact people dying, there would be many more of them on a continuous basis, and we would have far more footage, as death is such a common every day occurrence.  Plus, one or two of the objects were moving towards earth, not away from it.  In any case, the footage is definitely worth contemplating on.  Thanks for sharing it!

Very good points, I would have to agree.  At the risk of sounding like a lunatic, there have been a couple of occasions in my life when I have witnessed something in the sky that I simply can't possibly explain.  I would like to know what those were all about.  I think a good way to do that would be to go and and look.

So I guess once again we're faced with machine vs man.  If we do have such anti gravity devices, capable of galactic exploration, should we be content in using those for our understanding of the physical universe.  Or is it necessary, for some reason, to attempt to make such travel available to humans.  This is our planet.  This is where we've evolved.  What reasons, if any, do we have to explore space or step foot on other planets?  Our desire for the knowledge of truth has pushed us to explore space using many different tools.  But should humanity be concerned with putting ourselves in that environment as well?  Naturally we can spend a lot of money used for space exploration to help ourselves and our only one true planet.  But we continue to spend it gaining knowledge of our solar system.  Should we be content with our current method of space exploration?  Simply put, is it really necessary for man to travel space?

Without being in NASA we can still know enough about physics and the vastness of the universe to know that to get to Mars is not an easy thing, and there's a 99% chance that we are not there now (I guess anything is possible).  And what good would an anti gravity space craft be anyways?  It wouldn't effect anything in space, that's already anti gravity.  With the knowledge we currently have, and our fuel sources, the theory that mankind is already embarked in space travel, especially as far as Mars, which astronomically speaking is nothing, but still incredibly difficult, is probably not a very likely scenario.  I think it will be done some day, though why we would want to go to Mars for any other reason than to say that we can is beyond me.  I'd rather see NASA spend their billions looking for life on other planets, not putting life on them.

I have recently heard that NASA has cut funding to Jupiter's moon Europa, which originally planned to send a probe to the moon and drill into the ice in an attempt to see if there was in fact an ocean beneath the surface, and instead again send man to the moon.  I personally find this very disappointing.  Aside from Earth, Europa is the most likely environment to find life in our solar system.  But instead of taking this next exciting step, humanity is sending man again to a desolate, rocky, lifeless rock.  I'm hoping to start a discussion on this topic of space travel within our race.  Though much, MUCH more knowledge can be gained by going to Europa, it seems that man is driven to send itself back into space travel.  How many of you think this is a necessary evolutionary step?  How many think space travel is an impossible feat?  And how many think that it's utterly unnecessary to send man into our unnatural environment when machines can do the job well?

So recently I have become very good at the whole lucid dreaming thing.  They are much less random then they have ever been, and my level of awareness within them is profound to me.  But I can't quite rap my brain around the idea of actually applying a lucid dream state to get OOB.  Can anyone giving any types on shifting the concsiousness beyond lucid dreams into the fully concscious OOB state?

I know this is the fourth page, but I only read a few posts on the first page before I found something that I liked.  So sorry if what I say has already been said in the previous posts that I passed over.  I would like to go back to the whole evolution topic.  
 When it comes down to what we as humans being should believe it's hard for me to understand how people can't trust science more.  Granted, there are many things that science can't explain.  That's what philosophy is really for.  Once it can be proven then it no longer remains philosophy, but science.  Everyone is searching for so many answers in God and the great grand scheme of it all.  But even every member of the same church would have a slightly different opinion of what that really was anyways.     Scientific proof, in things like evolution, are right in front of all of our eyes.  
 Evolution has been proven almost to a ridiculous level.  We can clearly see it how it works, what shapes it, that it's always a work in progress.  To argue if evolution is real or not is simply not having all the facts.  
Now with that said, if science is real, then that would make certain parts of the Bible somewhat short of impossible.  Take Noah's arc for example.
 The Bible tells us how big Noah's arc was.  30 cubits x 300 cubits x 300 cubits.  A cubit in todays terms measures out to be a foot and a half.  That makes Noah's arc just a little smaller in measurements with the Titanic.  A pretty amazing feat at that time to say the least, and given the level of progression humanity was at during the time for someone in Noah's life, to build an arc that size would be possible.
 But now we're faced with the event of getting one sex of every animal on the planet, and Noah's two sons and their wives, safely into the arc so that when the 40 days and nights of rain stops, and the flood dissipates, they will all be able to repropogate the planet.  
 Now Biblical scholars date Noah's life to have been around 3,000 b.c. (before common era).  In evolutionary terms 5,000 is not even a blip in the timeline.  Remember, work in progress.  So here are the flaws in the Noah theory.
 1.  Either Noah managed to get one of each sex of African elephants, Indian elephants, Savannah elephants, forest elephants, black rhinos, African rhinos, tigers, lions, bears... the list goes on, onto his smaller than the Titanic arc, then we are missing something in the laws of physics.
 2.  That noah only got some species on the planet into his arc and in 5,000 years they have re-evolved into the same variation of species they were before the flood, and that includes Noah and his grandchildrens, grandchildren.  You see eventually they would have had to turn into blacks, whites, chinese, irish, all over again in a much shorter (also impossible) time span.  
 I guess it's also possible to have an option 3.  That is, you don't believe in right in front of your face, will work whether you believe in them or not, it's the laws of the natural universe (which a Perfect God created in Perfect Order), science.
 So... any other impossiblities (and there are many) of the Good Book that would like to be shared?
 And just so nobody gets offended by this article it might ease your mind to know that I am a faithful Christian.

I was wondering what peoples views on this was.  Recently I've been having some really intense, vivid, and conscious lucid dreams, and it got me thinking.  I've read a lot of OOB books, and a fundamental characteristic of OOBE's is that you can't always recall each detail, or that you lose consciousness during the projection.  This sounds very similar to a lucid dream to me.  Now I know that many people say that an OOBE is seemingly more real than the dream state, but I've come to question that also due to the very profound level of consciousness in my lucid dreams.  I've gained total control over the experience and can even recall my day before I went to sleep inside the dream.  Now with all the discussions about visiting the afterlife, speaking to dead relatives, and going as far as entering other dimensions... are we certain that these are not just a higher level of conscious dreaming.  Heck, doesn't even have to be higher I guess.

I too agree that everything we have experienced is stored somewhere in the mind, including imagination thoughts and daydreams.

The subconscious mind is a very powerful thing, and the poem could have been something that you came up with yourself within your dream.  The voice may have been a means of expressing it to yourself.  I don't personally know of any way to recall the poem, but to increase dream memory is very helpful to write down the dreams that you have and every detail that you can recall immediately after you awaken.  In time you will recall much more.  Also, often throughout the day certain aspects of profound dreams will come to surface at random.  Be prepared to write those down as well.

A big necessity for successful meditation is patience.  You can't sit and try to make something happen, you have to sit and wait for something to happen.  However long it takes.  Don't get frustrated though.  Simply attempting to clear your mind of all worries and stresses and bask in nothingness will be a pleasant experience within itself.  Listening to only the voice within.  Not your own, but the higher self that guides us all.  "When the student is ready, the teacher will come".  So just calm yourself, and wait patiently.

I would just like to suggest a site that I feel gets overlooked quite a bit.  There are some very great stories, also some great arguments, and a forum with very few members.  The site is called "Ragged Trousered Philosophy".

http://www.fullmoon.nu/articles/art.php?id=tal

I would agree that the most accurate way to test the validity of OBE would probably be conducted in the RTZ.  I realize that Monroe did conduct many of his own personal experiments with the RTZ with some hopeful results.  One in which he went OOB and traveled to his office to lightly pinch his secretary.  The result was that he pinched quite hard and gave her a bruise.  Unless it were a hoax (which wouldn't be all that difficult to pull off) instances such as that would be very hard to explain away as not real.  As far as hallucinations however I don't think it would be "not smart" to say they are not real.  That would bring us deep into philosophy I imagine, but basically it's an argument as to whether or not truth and perception are the same thing.  Some would say that because you see something it must be there, because at least it's true for that one individual.  The counterpoint is that if we see something that isn't there that doesn't mean the object is true, but that perception has been altered away from truth.  I would argue that hallucinations are not truth but that the individual experiencing them is being decieved, mainly by him or herself.  To hear voices doesn't mean that anyone is talking to you but that the mind has somehow triggered within itself that act which it would undertake if someone were actually talking to you.  The brain is decieved and the hallucination of the voices is not truth.  It could be said that if OBE are in fact real then the RTZ would most likely be the most reliable info because it can be varified, whereas traveling to other dimensions or speaking with dead relatives could be the mind undertaking the same act as it would in dreams or hallucinations, and therefor potentially be "not real".

Actually MisterJingo, the experiences with OBE are quite similar, at least in terms of inducing.  Now when it comes to OBE the actual "experience" itself is no more common than the same dream one would have with somoneone else.  Purely independent and personal of each other.  But the sensations and events that occur BEFORE or/and during an OBE are actually quite similar.  This in no way suggests validity, but commonality.  Most astral explorers explain that the reason their experiences are similar with others is because they are valid and true.  Scientifically that doesn't hold water.  The way that science diagnosis and evaluates symptoms in accordance to the disease is through their commonality.  Everything from retardation to allergies are characterized by common symptoms, which have been scientifically prooven.  So to state that OBE are true because they have similar characteristics simply means that it's possible that OBE's are a mental state that exhibit the same characteristics.  To date there is no reason to believe they are more than lucid dreams, or at worst, hallucinations.  It still, and for many years, will remain in a state of belief.  So far it remains nothing more, if not less, than a pseudoscience.  Categorized with astrology, palm reading, Scientology and faith.  When trying to prove something that one believes to be important I must always (and have already) emphasized one fact.....
EXTRAORDINARY CLAIMS REQUIRE EXTRAORDINARY PROOF!!!
There is no logical, philosophical or rational reason to believe in anything that can't be reasonably prooven!

Good point.  For society to really get to the nitty gritty and study OBE's researchers need to find valid interest in them.  But it doesn't just begin there.  There has to be enough reasonable evidence to support the probability of induced OBE's for the scientific community to supply funding enough to prove or disprove the phenomenon.  And we're probably some years away I think.  Despite the fact that there is far more interest in the subject then 30 years ago, and that you can easily find a number of books on OBE, for the most part many, MANY people just don't care about it.  Even, or perhaps especially, people that already believe in God and their religion so profoundly.  Yes I'd have to say that for now it remains a personal experience open to impossible interpretation by anyone else.  We may be able to study electrical impulses in the brain and observe the activity of the two hemispheres during an alleged OBE.  But to know what the brain activity really means or observe the experience that the individual is having is anything but possible.

Dingo, exactly.  So many people confuse scientific evidence with "more than possibility".  It's possible that the woman did know things she shouldn't have known if dead.  And I too have heard stories of individuals that have actually been in a morgue for more than 3 days, had a NDE, and was then revived.  The fact that their stories are accurate means it's something that should be looked into... but scientific proof it definitely isn't.  The brain is and has always been a complicated thing.  The average person uses 1/100th of it's potential.  "Brain dead" might not be what we think it is.  Science is a relatively new discipline, and when it comes to the brain, we're anything but certain about it.  It will take more research (scientifically) to really understand the vastness of the mind/brain, of which we haven't even learned are independent or not of each other.  All we can be sure of is that there isn't enough knowledge to accept these phenomena as absolute truth unless you abandon reason.  And as they say, to abandon reason is the most unreasonable thing you can do.  

PS... Dingo (Frank)... "why do you wear that stupid man suite"?    Dig the Avatar!

Once again, sorry for playing the devils advocate... but YES, DO QUESTION EVERYTHING.  If something is questioned then in due time it's truthfulness will emerse.  To accept something immediately is to deny our very human right of "ponderance".  If God did not want us to question, He would not have bestowed upon us the ability to question, which is endowed with free will.  It's only through questioning that we discover the truthfulness of that which we question.

Actually I don't see how science applies at all.  Researching OBE is not a scientific step, yet anyways, progress is being made.  This is because it still can't be proved, and it can't be tested or retested with any controlled variable.  It comes down to a belief system.  People are asked why they believe in God.  They say faith, or that they just know in their soul that He exists.  But prove it, just can't be done.  Same with OBE.  You can say that you've had one, and that it was definitely real, but other than on a personal level how can it be taken all that seriously?  I myself am a believer, so don't kill me for playing the devil's advocate... but how much I believe them is limited.  I don't disbelieve that they are true, I just think that perhaps they've been construed out wrongly.  You say yourself that many OBEr's don't differentiate between lucid dreams and OBE.  I've had some very intense and wonderful lucid dreams before, but I know that they are still only aspects of my subconscious mind and not waking life, however fun they may be.  I think the problem lies in the fact that many "spiritual insights" are being achieved in the OB state and there is a growing number in followers.  But we all know how creative the dream state can be.  I have received many insightful and intelligent ideas within my dreams, many of which I can't remember.  But to push forward and call it the "future of humanity" as I have seen so often may be as dangerous as organizing a new religion.  To truly be open minded here we need to consider discounting them as reality all together.  Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I'm sure that many of us have been exposed, on small level, to the increasingly popular idea of Out of Body Experiences. Believers, and more importantly those of "experience", have stated time and time again, in now almost countless books that the experience of leaving ones body is in fact more real than waking life itself. They state that it's such a profoud experience that it can't be denied any more than denying that we are alive right now (which some philosophers do in fact argue atimately). The problem with this is that we have to take the stories at face value. After all, how can it be proven? How do you test and retest and scrutinize the existence of conciousness outside the body? An important question would be whether or not we can know, beyond science, the validity of an OBE?
Obviously with something like this there will be much doubt. But with so many individuals claiming to experience this state of conciousness it can't be simply overlooked. It's entirely probable that they whole-heartedly believe they did in fact leave there bodies. So the most obvious answer is a hallucination within the mind. They can be powerful things. We won't go into discussion at this time as to the physiological reasons why the hallucination occurs... unless someone has a theory. The question is "why is it believed to be so real?" If the hallucination was doing it's job right then it would clearly be experienced as reality.
The next idea is a dream state. After all, every human has experienced a dream. A state in which during the experience you believe it to be reality. But as individuals we can define a dream by that state that seems real at the time, but upon waking was obvious an inner working of the mind itself. So why is it that after an OBE the individual still believes the experience to be real and valid and not a the dream state that we are all accustomed to?
Opinions and insights?

New idea on our own destiny here...
In our own spirituality we view God as a perfect being.  As we read the bible we see countless incidents when God has intervened in ways that go utterly against the laws of nature and physics (not to say he couldn't) to help humanity.  But we don't see it anymore.  Obviously that is open to "interpretation" by various religions trying to hold on to their true God, but on a natural scale, He hasn't shown himself in a while.  But I don't think we give enough justice to humanity itself.  For the most part we feel that we're so low on the food chain, so to speak, that we can't do anything without divine intervention.
But we've come pretty far on our own.  Now there will be discussions of God or spirits or angels giving us intuition that leads us to where we need to go... this is not that forum.  I'm taking the side, for this forum at least, of a humanist.
Never in the history of our existence has their been PROOF of any level of divine intervention.  You are allowed to believe in the bible, book of Mormon, Koran, anything else... but they all come down to faith.  There is no PROOF of it, and you can't discount that because you hold on to hope.
But in the same breath, there is hope.  Think of the human condition.  We have always listened to the more educated and more experienced within our societies.  There's a certain level of respect for the elderly.  So what if God is nothing more than the "eldest"?  This can account for both eternal progression or reincarnation.  
It's a common belief in many religions that God was once similar to us as humans are today.  As humans we make mistakes, and the result is learning and growing from them.  Granted there are many individuals that have made mistakes and destroyed themselves as a result, but if reincarnation is real, then they have the chance to change things and learn from their past life.  If the afterlife is real, then likewise they have the chance to learn and grow from their mistakes as well.
So as God is concerned, what if He is really a higher level of our own selves.  What if God is all perfect and all knowing simply because he has made every mistake, or learned from every mistake, that our universe has to offer?  He may have destroyed Himself in some lives, grown as a result in others, and now, in the scheme of eternity, he has made, learned, and grown from every mistake there is to make, and thus, in our dimension of the physical universe, is incapable of making the same mistakes as we do, because he's made them and knows the solution without hesitation?
Isn't it possible that He is helping us find our path, but not intervening in walking it because in order to reach His level of understanding and divinity, we need to make and fix our own mistakes for ourselves?

Gotta stick with Monroe.  His first book started it all.  Not only for myself, but also for the entire field.  A lot has been done based on his work, but without him none of it would have started.

Some months ago I purchased "Our Ultimate Reality" as advertised on this website.  I downloaded all the special features as well, including "The Abyss" to listen to in order to help relax.  Well I recently just purchased a new laptop and while installing the book onto it I could no longer locate "The Abyss".  I was just wondering if anyone knew if it was still around?

Fiesty, that is a good technique, it should do ok.  There may be times within the dreams when you don't have the bracelet.  But, upon seeing you don't have it you may ask where it is, which will probably also trigger you asking about the reality you're in.  If you keep up that technique you should have no trouble.  Just remember, attaining the state is only the first step to success, and the first time will most definately not equal every time.  You may only have 1 or so a month, perhaps less.  And when you attain that state you might simply have some fun, but it could be short lived and you probably won't discover any life long truths about the universe.  Most likely it's going to be a stepping stone to an OBE, if you're lucky.  And yes, luck does play a role.  I've had 1 lucid dream in which I actually induced it myself.  All others have been by utter chance.  Might not be the same for everyone, but it's a possibility for anyone.  Knowing how to do it is the step that is given to you through, thank god, the experiences that we can learn from others.  But once you attain it, what to do with it and where you go, including how far you take it, is all in your hands.  Just keep doing what you're doing, and good luck with it not if, but WHEN you achieve it.

Possible projection, but I find that so many people relate things two ways, either you're in your body, or your projecting.  But meditation is a very powerful tool for many things, and I'm certain there is more to learn from it.  The sensations to point to a prelude to a projection, if you listen to the "common experiences".  But I have had many strange sensations while meditating, and have conversed with my higher self while still very much in the body.  My advice, do what you were doing while meditating and see if you can do it again, or see if something new happens.  I'm guessing when it happened you weren't trying to make it happen, so trying to make it happen again might be counterproductive.  Just do what you did, don't expect anything.