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Messages - Dragen

#1
Hey everybody,
While i'm always one who says inducing an OBE should be completely natural, I have to suggest one item which will greatly help you in your ventures.  It's not salvia, it's not a hyperdimensional resonator, or hemi-sync, sounds, or alcohol.. nothing like that!  But simply..

Ear plugs.

I went to Wally world yesterday (Wal*Mart) and bought some "Hear-o's" or something to that effect.  They are rated for 32db noise and they are the little roll-up foam ear plugs.  The reason I bought them is because when I DO try to simply SLEEP, my wife snores like a monster and it keeps me up.  So naturally, you can imagine how bad this would effect my projecting abilities if I attempted them in the same room at night.  (LOL!  Which I do.)  

I put these in last night and had a spontaneous (almost) OBE.  Not a single sound was distracting me, and the triangle method.. wow.. just wow.  But last night, all I wanted to do was sleep.. so I fell asleep.
I then woke up in the middle of the night, for some weird reason.. and I was just "barely" conscious when I suddenly realized (5 seconds later) that the vibrations were starting.  Thanks to the forums and extensive reading I have done on the subject, I wasn't afraid this time.  So I went with the flow.. and remembered reading about "controlling" these vibrations.

Keep in mind.. I was barely consciously aware of this.

So I somehow controlled these vibrations, as they got stronger.. MAN!  It's amazing.  Your hole body vibrates.. it feels like electricity is shooting down your entire body.. when I started controlling the vibrations, I was shooting them up and down my body at real fast intervals.  Top to bottom, probably 5-6 times a seconds.  And then...

I blacked out.

NOO!!  I don't remember anything past this point!  My guess is, I was barely coherant during this, and when the final "exit" state approached, I didn't have enough focus/energy to go through with it.  I'm assuming I just slipped in to a blank dream.  Not even lucid.  I just blacked out.

Doh!  But hey, the good news is.. these earplugs really seem to do wonders for me.  Hearing the ringing in your ears is very easy.. and you can even go as far as hearing your own pulse.  Try that as a method!  Focus on your pulse instead of your breathing, or both!  With these earplugs in, I feel like i'm really calm and relaxed.  Like i'm in a dead quiet black void of consciousness.  

Give it a try!  I would be interested to see if you guys had the same luck.  I don't believe in coincidences, and I believe these really caused some pretty cool experiences for me, the very first night I put them in!

What do you guys think?
#2
Hi everyone!
I'm a little out of it, so if this post seems incoherent, just say "Hey Dragen, you're out of it."  But I just got out of a LONG meditative session, trying to Astral Project.

I spent 2 full hours in paralysis.  My whole body was numb, heavy, and it felt huge.  Couldn't really move.  This was fine for a while, but I couldn't for the life of me pull myself out.  The ROPE technique is NOT working for me... I got some vibrations, tingling sensations, and feelings of vertigo.

And will somebody please tell me why I felt pain in my arms?  I don't know what this was, or why I was feeling it.. but it felt painful.  And at times, it felt like there were 2 of me... briefly.. but I couldn't get out.  I visualized myself floating near the ceiling with my nose 1 inch away from it.. I felt "pulling" but it still wouldn't release.  I must be tied down with spiritual chains for crying out loud!  [;)]

Anyway, I was able to get out of paralysis physically.. it took one hell of an effort to get up.  When I moved my physical arm, it felt like it was "dislocated" from another arm that was laying their.  It was strange.  After like fighting like crazy to sit up, I stood up and realized how solid I was.  And here I sit.

My mind was fully awake for 2 hours while my body slept.. the strangest feeling is being so incredibly tired physically, but being awake during the whole thing consciously.  I had a hard time just walking across the room!

What do you guys think about this?  What am I doing wrong?  I really did relax.. I attempted ROPE and other techniques many times.. if it didn't work, I would relax my mind, and then try again.  But it still didn't yield results.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to get too long.  Very strange and new experience indeed.  Perhaps I shouldn't wake myself up and get up that fast in the future.  How close do you think I was?  Any tips?

Thanks everybody!
#3
What do many of you think of Hemi-Sync?  Do you think it works?  Or even helps?  Or is it one of those things that only some people get results out of it, while others not?

The concepts of Hemi-Syng are rather intriguing, but does it actually cause the brain to do what they say it does?  And why in the world do they have so many different "versions".

What do you guys think?  Do any of you use it?  Any results?
#4
Welcome to Out of Body Experiences! / Did I do it?!
December 04, 2003, 21:15:07
Hi everyone,
It's been quite some time since I was reading this material, and attempting to "try" it.  For whatever reason, I have been drawn to this subject in a very intense way, just over a 24 hour period of time.  It almost feels like, this is a stage in my life where I need this.  Where it's time.

Essentially, i'm "new" to this.  Though, I have never experienced what so many of you have, I think I came close.. and couldn't explain it.  I was wondering if a few of you could help clarify what happened to me.

It was actually about 2 years ago.  I have always been fascinated with Astral Projection since I was a 12.  I read books on it for quite a few years back then.  I am also very spiritual, but in a non-religous manner.  I am very open minded, and do not judge others for their beliefs.  I was brought up with the freewill to think for myself.  I had/have two very loving parents, which at age 23, I have learned to appreciate and love more than anything in the world.

So aside from the "boring" background there.. lol, I grew up interested in this and accepting of it.. in fact, I was deeply passionate about martial arts for many years.  Meditating was a requirement, and I did it often.  It wasn't until 2 years ago when I finally read some articles about focusing on your "3rd eye", or focusing on the nothingness while your body sleeps.  

Now, what i'm about to say makes me skeptical of some of this (sometimes) as well as my own experience.. because the very first time I actually attempted to do this.. something very strange, and scary happened.

I got myself comfortable and layed in bed.  I closed my eyes and focused on the black void of nothing.  Any thoughts which attempted to enter my head were "acknowledged" and discarded so I could continue focusing on nothing.  It seemed like I did this for 20 minutes or so.. and each passing minute appeared to create a feeling of "sinking".. until suddenly... I felt vibrations/tingling sensations through my entire body, and it suddenly felt like things were dropping out from underneath me.. I think I also heard a loud humming/buzzing noise... and the thing I cannot forget was the overwhelming feeling of being vulnerable.  To what, I do not know.  But I know I felt like I was in a much larger place.. a place I was not familiar with.  But this happened so incredibly fast, I never saw anything, and the feeling of being "vulnerable" scared me.  I was really afraid.. and I snapped right out of it.  I could feel my heart pumping when I looked up at the ceiling..

What in the world happened?  Did I actually induce an out of body experience.. or, at least start one?  I wish I could explain it in more detail, but there are enough words to express what I experienced.  But i'm sure if there was somebody out there that could validate my experience, it would be you guys.

Ever since then, I haven't attempted to perform this experiment.  I don't know why.. I think I convinced myself that what happened, never happened.  I ended up forgetting about it for a while.. until now.  I always get drawn to this subject and pulled back in to this.

What do you think?  Am I going crazy?  

Thank you for reading!
#5
Jeff,
That's actually pretty good idea.  Great advice!  I may even have to try that out a few times!  [:D]
#6
It sounds like you are getting close.  Remember, the physical body sensations must be absent for a sucessful OBE to take place.  Some people SWEAR they are physically awake until they look back at a very familiar body laying in bed or sitting in a chair.  But if you are positive your real physical limbs are moving, you are not relaxed enough and need to focus on more relaxation techniques before you begin exit procedures.  Relaxation is absolute key!  

It's very difficult to say what (you in particular) should be doing to succeed.  We must remind ourselves that it is different for everybody and only you can find the answers for yourself.  But in answer to your question, it is very common for many people to use falling techniques to enter a deep trance state.  Although this sounds contradictory or counter-productive, they are two different pieces of the puzzle.  You first must enter a trance state with ultimate relaxation.  Again, entering this trance state is different for everybody.  Some use intense visualization, falling techniques, or the complete absence of thought.  If using falling visualizations are working for you, then continue using it.  (But remember, it never hurts to try other techniques!  Experimentation is key in order to find your ultimate procedure!)  Also, it is very important at this point to be completely relaxed as you enter trance.  Failure to relax the physical body is VERY counter-productive to your goals.

Now after "falling" in to a trance.  It then sounds weird climbing a ROPE after you spent all that time falling "somewhere".  Remember, we are talking about a totally different technique.  One in which is a very different visualization focusing energy in a different way than attempting to enter a trance.  A technique such as ROPE is exerting pressure on your astral double.  You are focusing on being somewhere you really aren't.  This applies a very large amount of pressure on your astral body.  If your physical body isn't relaxed, (or even only certain parts) you will have a very difficult time with this.  When you are unable to feel your physical body, you may get sensations of "lifting", "floating" or even complete "spinning".  A spinning sensation is a clear indication that you entered a deep trance (or Focus 10 state) with complete physical relaxation as your etheric body opens and raises where the mind-split and astral body can be projected.  If you can feel this, you know you are doing very well.  It's important not to get excited at this point.  This is a very real sensation and you can't mistake it.  You simply feel like you aren't in bed or sitting in a chair anymore.  (Especially if you feel spinning sensations.  This can be quite a ride!!)  

If "falling" in to a trance state and then "climbing" to exert pressure on your Astral Double doesn't "make sense" as you put it, then your own mind could be counter-productive to this particular process.  If you find it to be "silly" or "not make sense" you have a belief which can and probably will give you many difficulties when you attempt to use it.  You need to find a technique which works for you, and makes sense.  Too much thought, wastes energy and interupts the projection process.  If you believe something doesn't work or make sense, this will ultimately lead to failure.  Perhaps, my explanation will help these concepts make sense and fix that problem.  However, if not, then it is extremely important for you to continue experimenting and finding a path which works for you.

Also, keep in mind, while the ROPE technique is a very popular technique, it isn't the ONLY technique, and (like me) some people find it useless or ineffective.  Don't be afraid to try other things.  From beginners to even, very experienced projectors.. many continue to find new techniques and "tricks" to help them through this process.  It's an ongoing process.  Always continue to strive for success.

I hope this information helps and I wish you the best of luck!  Oh, and if you are wondering what my techniques are.. who knows.  I may change them again.  But right now, I am getting wonderful results using the Triangle Method and the absence of thought.. concentration in Focus 10.  I just go for the ride.  [8D]
#7
I would like to add to what The AlphaOmega mentioned above..
I have found that concentrating on the ringing in your ears is an amazing method.  However, I go a little step further and use the Triangle Method.. and many times this technique has induced amazing spinning sensations and "exit sensations" within minutes of me doing it.  (Provided my energy levels are sufficient)

The Triangle Method consists of, as stated above.. focusing on the ringing in BOTH of your ears.  You need to concentrate on both sides, and then focus on your "3rd eye".  (Brow Chakra)  You need to focus on all 3 of these things simultaneously to create a "Triangle".

Try it out, you may get interesting results!
#8
Hi SubGyro2,
Your body heating up could be related to anxiety.  I have found that anxiety and/or adrenaline can cause this.  If you relax, you may find that this goes away.  However, sometimes this heat could just be part of your particular experience.  It's different for everybody.

quote:
also, in Robert Bruce astral dynamic he talks about mind split and missed exit...is it possible to control your astral double trough the silver cord if you had a missed exit and the double haven't return, kind of like a remote control?


I'm not sure you fully understand the mind split concept.  Remember, with mind split there is two of you.  You are conscious in two places at once.  So there is no need to take control of your astral double since you are already in control.  (But your physical may never know this)  However, you can force a synchronization of both consciousness using Astral Feedback as a method, but be careful.

To avoid missing an "exit", or a better way to put it is, to avoid shadow memory loss.. you need to keep your first projections very short.  30-60 seconds and tell yourself that you will remember everything when you wake up.  The reason you want to keep your first projections short is because you can remember 30 seconds of something a lot easier than an hour worth.. and your physical consciousness will still be in Focus 10.  This will allow a better memory download.

As time progresses, you will be able to project for longer periods of time and get better at storing memories.  But the best way of dealing with your problems (we all have them at first) is by keeping things short and simple.

I hope this helps!
#9
It's called a Hyperdimensional Resonator.  Whether or not it actually works.. that's a very large argument in itself.

But why would you want to do that, when you can do it naturally?  Robert Bruce can do it everytime without using devices.  And everybody can learn how!

[8D]
#10
Steel Hawk,
Very intriguing observations!  From a scientific perspective you are making many interesting statements and coming up with some pretty powerful conclusions.  However, I would like to point out that not everything regarding this subject can be proven with modern physics.  While some of it applies, we cross a line in to metaphysics.. It has always been my theory that combining both of these is absolutely necessary if we ever plan on understanding all of this someday.

Scientists need to stop blasting spiritual beliefs since they can't be proven like modern physics..

Spiritual individuals (especially religions) need to stop believing everything they are told and attempt to take a scientific approach instead of just "faith"..

Both are needed.. Afterall, we are physical beings (physical) with higher levels of consciousness (non physical) .. they are connected and depend on each other to exist on this plane.

Your scientific observations will only take you so far.. and then brainwave data is suddenly a moot point.  You strike as the person who is interested in brainwave activity and how it relates to OBE's.  Check this out, I think you will enjoy it!  You will see what i'm talking about.. especially when the brainwave tests come out as "normal" but also "abnormal" during the subjects "OBE experience" ... at one point, they talk about this brainwave state needing it's own category!  (They are missing data.. which cannot be retrieved by physical means)

Here it is:
http://www.paradigm-sys.com/display/ctt_articles2.cfm?ID=31

Enjoy!
#11
quote:
Dragen,
I have to say that I really like the comments you've been putting here. There's a lot of very good common sense and wisdom in your thoughts.


Thanks for the kind words James!  I'm just like everybody else, trying to find answers and understanding.  I think i'm fortunate that I was able to think like this since I was a child.  My parents never forced me to attend any kind of church.  So I have learned a great deal by being "open" with others, myself, and possibilities.

It's funny how you mention your "nerd" status.  My wife and I are also both computer nerds.  I work in Information Systems for a manufacturing company and develop software/business logic for a large database.  It's a great job!  My wife doesn't work in I.T. professionally, but she loves computers (I taught her how to build her own too!) and she plays computer games.  So it's a nice thing to have in common!

quote:
To this she wanted to reply -

"That's just great dear, you just stay there and make a cool drink. I'm going shopping to find a white coat. Now what was the number for Mental Health again?"



ROFL!  Make sure she gets one that fits.  Last time I was committed, I lost circulation to my head and made the problems worse.  [;)]

#12
Greetings Draege,
It's quite common to get vibrations without noise!  Not only does it vary between people, but it varies between your own experiences!  The first time I got vibrations, it was accompanied by a humming, but ever since then, I just feel the vibes.

The sounds that are often discussed aren't always about vibes.  When in a deep trance and when your etheric body expands, you become susceptible to auditory noise.. doors being slammed, whips cracking, voices, etc.  These are indications of deep trance and eminent projection.  

Also, keep in mind, not everybody gets vibes either.  [;)]
#13
quote:
HAHAHAH... how suprising. Someone started trying to project and they failed, never heard of such a thing.


I don't find that particulary funny.  This can be a frustrating and/or scary experience for some people.  While I agree that projecting is different for everybody (as I mentioned above), it is a "fact" that you have to exert some kind of pressure on your astral double.  Or you don't get out.  This has been stated by countless people and books.  Even travelling around the Astral/RTZ requires that same kind of pressure; altered perspective thought.
#14
The AlphaOmega,
I disagree.  I lay down on the bed.  On my back.  I don't sleep very well (if at all) when lying on my back.  I never have, and probably never will.  So this position works wonders for me, and i'm sure for a lot of people out there who don't lay on their back.  I think you would be surprised how many people sleep on their sides or their stomach at night.

Although Robert Bruce recommends sitting up in a nice recliner with a head rest and pillow under your feet, it really isn't necessary if you can lay down on your bed and not fall asleep.

Also, keep in mind that you WANT your body to fall asleep.  It needs to be relaxed, in a sleeping position it's comfortable with.. but NOT a sleeping position your mind is comfortable with.
#15
Steel Hawk,
Congratulations!  You did it!

9 Years... man, now THAT'S patience!!!!  [:O]

Good luck on your ventures!  [;)]
#16
The caffeine addiction.. I have a problem with this.  But I assure you, I do very well, even with gallons of caffeine flowing through my body.  I can't help wonder if I would do better without, but then again, I could go in to withdrawl (seriously, I do) and be worse off.

You need to find that one out for yourself.  Try experimenting with it.  Get off the caffeine for a couple days, keep it out of your system and make a final test 2 days later.  I would be interested to hear how your tests go!

It sounds like you are making more progress now that you are relaxing more.  You may still be "trying too hard" as you described trying to get the "sounds" to come back.  Although this was a cool experience, often times you will find that your experiences change quite often, from session to session.  Trying to get those sounds back, or other experiences back every time is too much effort.  

Just go with the flow.  Hang out in the trance state.. let your body go numb.  Stop feeling your body.  Enjoy the relaxed state you are in.  Afterall, it's a great state to be in, especially with all the stress and noise in the world!

Sounds like you are making progress!  Way to go!
#17
Hey Tolvor,
I often experience heart sensations, one way or another.  What I mean by this, is sometimes it's the heart chakra, which can make you believe your real heart is beating erratic or and impossible rate.  But this is "normal" despite how abnormal it really feels.

However, I also feel an altered physical heart beat.  Usually, a more steady stronger thud like you described.  I am not sure why so many people run in to this.  Robert Bruce often says it's just the Heart Chakra, but I tend to disagree.. I have personally verified a very real accelerated, stronger heart beat after intense sessions.  I believe this is the result of anxiety and adrenaline being released in to the system.  I also believe this is why Astral Projection can be severely dangerous to somebody with a heart condition.  For somebody with a healthy heart, these elevated heart levels shouldn't do harm, though i'm not a medical doctor.. accelerated heart beats can actually be healthy (occasionally) for healthy folks.  That's why exercise is important!  Keeps the heart muscle strong!

I personally ignore it.  It's actually not that simple.. lol; I am working on ignoring it.  It can be quite distracting at times.  But I have talked with a lot of people who have experienced this and I wouldn't be too concerned unless you have a heart condition.

I hope this helps!
#18
Welcome to the forums wwdileie!
A lot of people have had similiar problems like yours.  But everybody is different and it's hard to say what works best and how long something will take.  I think it greatly depends on the individual.

Sometimes, just going with the flow during vibrations can result in a natural seperation.  But usually it's common to "help" the process along by exerting pressure on your astral body.  You do this by ignoring physical sensations and forgetting about your physical body completely.. visualization or tactile imaging IN front of your physical body, or in some other location other than where you are laying/sitting.

If you continue reading the Treatise on OBE's, you will see a popular technique called the ROPE technique which uses tactile imaging as a way of visualization and altered perspective.  This returns wonderful results for most people.  

I suggest keeping your eyes close and using visualization or tactile imaging as your technique.  Try a few things and find out what works best for you.  Even "feeling" yourself floating near the ceiling will "put you away" from your physical body.  Again, this kind of visualization requires you to "be there" by really feeling like you are where you think you are.  This exerts pressure on your astral body and if concentrated long enough, inevitably leads to an OBE.

Try it out and get back to us!  Good luck!
#19
Hi Mustardseed,
Excellent point.  Your situation is exactly like mine.  My wife knows what i'm doing, and she also thinks i'm a very deep spiritual person.  She also told me she believes in my experiences 100%.  But she is afraid of what she doesn't understand.. and she worries about me.

Like you, I find if I say something wrong.. something which can be scary, etc.. she reacts weird to it.  She would almost rather not know instead of feel worried about me.  At one point I mentioned not discussing it with her anymore.. but she didn't want that either.  She just wants me to be careful.  And deep down, I think she is interested; curious to say the least.. I think she needs me to "ease" it in a bit at a time... like Mustardseed said.. don't just blurt out

"I left my body and a Negative psychic attacked me, so I retaliated and it ran off scared, so I followed it in to the sub planes, a form of hell, and I saw things trying to kill me, and then I saw a vision of the world exploding.. but then I went to a happy place with small frolicking bunnies.  What do you think honey?"

[:O]
#20
You can't go wrong with an Astral Dynamics stocking stuffer!

Or better yet, your first Projection on Christmas!

[;)]
#21
Hi all,
Very interesting views on this subject matter!  But why do you insist on telling so many people about your experiences?  This appears to be an extension of the human ego.  Really, I would like to hear your views on why you believe it is important to tell a lot of people.

I'm not just talking about telling a close friend or some family members, but a few of mentioned telling their co-workers or whoever they come across.  One thing I would like to point out is the ego and dogma.

I heard a few comments about this being the truth, and how you can't see why it hurts helping people understand about the afterlife.  This, I believe is a spiritually destructive pattern, for yourself and others.  Essentially what you are doing is pushing your beliefs on others, just as major religions do today.  You start crossing that line where you believe in it for YOURSELF, to believing other people should be aware of this "truth" you found.  This truth is unique to the individual, and should in no way be discussed with others unless asked in my opinion.  This is a new age.. the Age of Aquarius is approaching.. free thinking, less dogmatic views, less judgemental idealistic ways, less war, spiritual development; evolution; revolution.  Trying to impress your peers, or gain attention, or whatever reason is an extension of the ego.  

Please help me understand WHY it's important for you to push this on people, and if not push it on people.. why is it important for you to discuss it with them?  You know, and I know that a lot of them are probably very religous anyway.  Catholics, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists... maybe even Atheists.  What you are doing is essentially giving yourself a label.. why do you have to BE associated with anything?  Do you want attention?  Do you want others to believe you?  Do you want others to believe in the same thing as you?  Or are you angry that you feel trapped about discussing it and refuse to do supress it anymore?  

In any of those cases, I see stagnation to spiritual development.

I am really perplexed by this issue.  I know that I found something for myself.  I read books on it, I experiment with it, I attempt projection to gain answers and understanding.  I have found conclusive evidence for my being.. my all, that life after death exists.. and it's really just a beginning.  I have no need, nor desire to discuss this with anybody else as it is completely unimportant to my purpose.  Again, if somebody is truly interested in what I believe.. and are open to my experiences, then sure i'll discuss it with them.  But I cannot for the life of me see why anybody would have the desire to tell the entire world.  Because the minute you do that, you become a leader.  You put yourself on a pedastal and talk about spirituality like you have all the answers.  

For the most part, you probably do have all the answers.  For yourself.  But I staunchly stand by my belief that everybody has their own path and their own answers.  They are connected with their very own universal truth, and there is no wrong answer.  Just because they read the bible and practice dogmatic beliefs, doesn't mean they aren't connected to god in some way.  And this is coming from somebody who has never been religous.  It's taken me years of searching and understanding to learn and accept people for who they are and their beliefs.  This has always and will continue to be a difficult thing to accomplish and follow.

Though, some of you probably don't view OBE's as a spiritual thing.  I probably wont understand that myself, but if it's just a "cool experience" for you, then perhaps I wouldn't see anything wrong with trying to tell people about it.. other than making yourself look crazy!
#22
Hey Rachael,
While I think it's great you do all of that, for some people.. usually, most people.. it effects them in a bad way.  Our race is notoriously judgemental.. and that can cause people a great deal of stress, depression, and self-esteem problems.  

You are a hard worker and got yourself in a GREAT position!  But a lot of people aren't that fortunate, and even some of those who are, can still receive a backlash by telling people things they shouldn't be.  If there is one thing I learned all these years, it's that so many people have secrets.  And sometimes these secrets are feelings that they are embarrased about having.

For example, you go to work and tell a couple co-workers about these strange experiences.  These co-workers act like they understand and may chuckle a little bit, but deep down they may actually be scared to be around you.  Maybe their own beliefs are such, that Astral Projection is the work of witches and Satan.  (That belief is more common than you realize)  But out of respect for you.. (most) don't say anything about it.  And in some cases.. they wont say anything about you to other co-workers because they are nervous about.  (The ones who do open their mouths are gossipers.. and they are their own breed)  But in any case.. it is bad for you.

Now let's say this news spreads up to the HR department and other managers.  And job positions.. or should I say, opportunities open up.. for years, you will be turned down.  You may never know why.  But some managers doing the interview may feel threatened or insecure with your "blunt attitude" and even worse, your own beliefs.. since they are evil, or "weird".. perhaps they view you as an unstable person.

At any rate, I am aware this sounds like a paranoid post, but the fact of reality is this is how it can turn out.  Especially in the office environment.  And most DEFINITELY when gossip or rumors are spread.  Your reputation is at stake, and it's important to keep it up professionally and ultimately financially.

That is why it's important to share this with people you trust and care about.  Particularly those who are at least "somewhat" open to the possibilities.  The world is full of saturated dogmatic views.. the majority of the population isn't ready for this level of thinking.  Partly because they don't care, think it's nonesense, or evil based on their current belief structure.  But a lot of that is changing today!  Perhaps when there are more free-thinkers, or more accepting people, discussing this subject will be a lot easier in the future.  But for now, it causes far too many problems in your life to just spout out information to anybody and everybody.

But again, it's different for every individual.  If your path is telling everybody you meet about a new way of thinking... I say go git em!  But i'm staying out of it.  lol
#23
Haha Holy Reality..
If I came out of something like speaking French or Russian, I would be terrified!  But rest assured that wont happen.  [;)]  That gave me a good chuckle!

It sounds like you are having a struggle with all of this.. it sounds very familiar to what I went through at first.  I think I have progressed in a way where I am aware of "trying too hard".  Which may be the case with you.  I have entered full paralysis by being fully conscious, with minor hypnagogic imagery.  (Occassionaly, I would see something.. here and there)  The feeling of going numb is a good sensation.. that generally indicates the start of a deeper trance.  Unfortunately, you want more than your arms in this state.

I have learned that so many different things can happen.  And it changes with every experience.  If there is one thing I learned more than anything, it is that there is no TRUE way to do all of this, and everybody (even each of your experiences) is completely different!

One night, I meditated in a deep trance, entered paralysis, saw hypnagogic imagery.. occasionally heard strange sounds, felt numb.. and stayed this way for 5 hours.  That's right, 5 FULL REAL hours.  But this helped me realize why this was occurring...

1.) Energy development
2.) Consciousness development
3.) Patience
4.) Experience
5.) Understanding

So in answer to your question, you need to find out which returns the most results.  I know many people, including Robert Bruce, are fully conscious.. from start to finish when they induce OBE.  While others manage to slip in to a dream, "check back" and keep trying.  (Similar to you)... and some even do it from the DREAM itself, by starting a lucid session and tranforming it in to an Astral/OBE experience.  

A note on being fully conscious... don't focus "too hard".  You need to be in a RELAXED focus state.  Focus enough to stay conscious, but don't start thinking, "what's happening now?  Now what do i do?  Oh darn I need to stay in that state?  What was that sound?  How come nothing is happening?"  Things will start happening on their own if you can relax.  

And if not, you are advancing.. it takes time.  You are retraining a muscle.. your brain.  It's not used to staying awake while the body sleeps.  You have conditioned it to go to sleep at night for many years now.  But slowly, things will get better.
#24
Hey psychicphish!
Welcome to the forums!  Usually, a full projection is described as being as realistic as your waking life, even more so.  It sounds like you are Remote Viewing?  By the way you described everything, it seems as if you are drawing pictures, 3D space in your mind, which is a clairvoyant Remote Viewing ability.  Or possibly Astral Sight.

I haven't entered paralysis for a while now.  I'm not sure if it's absolutely necessary.  I have been reading quite a bit, and have changed my course of training.  I posted a thread over here on overcoming these paralysis issues, and trying other techniques to induce OBE.

Check it out here:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9480


Hopefull you will find it useful!  I know how frustrating all of this can be, but just relax and go for the ride.  You will surely get there!

Good luck!
#25
Hey Huwie man!
Where the hell have you been?  LOL!  Yep, I remember when you were talking about all those supposed "failed" attempts.. that's why I posted about you above.  I had another one of those experiences (as I discussed above) and it just, didn't make sense.  How in the world could something be going so well and then *click* memories gone.

This book really is amazing.  I am a very positive open-minded thinker.  However, I am aligning with this book more than any of the others I have ever read.  While I am a big fan of Robert Monroe's abilities and his incredible stories, I think he and the Monroe Institute approached this with a "just go with it" attitude and explained the process with old concepts.  Robert Bruce's book starts explaining stuff on a completely different, new, and fresh level.. and I think he's on to something here.

If there is such a "truth" to metaphysics, like a "metaphysical fact".. it appears this "mind split" is one of them.  It can individually be proven.  Though this differs from standard science of writing it down on paper and reproducing the results in a lab... it's not too far from the same concept, that each of us can attempt Robert Bruce's experiments and find out for ourselves.  

Natural Clairvoyant ability!  You could develop on this and do some really amazing things!  I have also been attempting some basic telekinetic tricks.. like bending a fork or spoon in to impossible shapes by not using physical strength alone.  There is energy all around us.. there is something to all of this.  Our understanding of the universe isn't as good as we might think!

quote:
By the way Dragen, mate - are you ever on MSN?


I was going to ask you the same thing!  I never see you online!  Though, I work fulltime during the day.  But i'm usually on at night, unless you are on the other side of the world?  I had the opportunity to talk with m0d0 a couple times.  He's a friendly guy!

We need to stay in touch.. the Astral Pub (on the moon) has reservations for us!  I even told them to stock a few rounds of beer for the big arrival!